Men now want women to be confident and make the first move

[Pure]

i don't really believe this poll. the question simply asks, in effect, wouldn't it be an ego trip to be asked out?

look at couples. see in what proportion of cases the woman started it by 'asking him out.' i suspect it's less than 25%.

secondly, i notice none of the posters above talk about 'asking out and being turned down' or getting lukewarm compliance 'i guess so' that leads nowhere (dull date never followed up).

askers out have to be prepared for a sizable percentage of 'no's' or 'all right, i guess so,' followed by a lukewarm evening or whatever.

lastly, askers out have to be prepared for a percentage of partings in which the sentence "well, YOU first asked me out" turns up in the partner's mouth as intended to be exculpatory.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I'm just so glad I'm lesbian and don't have to bother with any of this.

 

[Pure]

i think 'first move' and rejection issues cut across all possible couplings.

i merely used a 'straight' example.

i'm sure that in gay and lesbian circles, the party being left/replaced often hears, "well you came after me, remember. that's how it started. so don't..."

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Never heard that once in my history.

 

[bluebell]

i think 'first move' and rejection issues cut across all possible couplings.

And I think you're correct.
Not everyone (male or female) has the confidence to ask in the first place. And even if they do, Pure is correct again, they must be willing to come face to face with the fact that it could go very wrong, very right, or just kinda...meh.

Of course I would love to be the woman I think I am (or hopefully, someday, could be) in my head when it comes to these sorts of things. Don't people think I wish that? Heavens.
But at a certain point you can hit up against a wall and it doesn't really work.
In my experience, I've always given out friendly overtures and, apparently, nothing more- even when I wanted it to maybe be something more. Dudes just don't think of me that way. So. I am this inbetweeny sort of person. Now. But I'm attempting to get over this crazy wall of mine and just approach people. It's a process. Some days I can see my trail of bread crumbs and think, "I'm getting there", and other days I think I should trek to some nunnery in Vienna requesting sabbatical from a world where I have to think about these things.

But I will ask one of you someday. Oh yes. I will.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

So come to Chicago next March. There should be lots of opportunities and encouragement to use them.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Never heard that once in my history.

Yeah. All I've ever heard in my life is "Wanna go to the movies then fuck?"

 

[Pure]

nice to know there are never any recriminations in the winding down of lesbian relationships. and none have to do with power issues.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Jenny, You make me smile, girl!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Yeah. All I've ever heard in my life is "Wanna go to the movies then fuck?"

But if I said it, would it work? You could even choose the movie.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

But if I said it, would it work? You could even choose the movie.

Hell no. My Girlfriend wold kill me.

 

[human_male]

I'm just so glad I'm lesbian and don't have to bother with any of this.

Isn't someone still required to make the first move regardless of the fact that you're both women?

I've often wondered how lesbians ever manage to hook up since the vast majority of women are so reluctant to initiate things.

 

[human_male]

And I think you're correct.
Not everyone (male or female) has the confidence to ask in the first place. And even if they do, Pure is correct again, they must be willing to come face to face with the fact that it could go very wrong, very right, or just kinda...meh.

Of course I would love to be the woman I think I am (or hopefully, someday, could be) in my head when it comes to these sorts of things. Don't people think I wish that? Heavens.
But at a certain point you can hit up against a wall and it doesn't really work.
In my experience, I've always given out friendly overtures and, apparently, nothing more- even when I wanted it to maybe be something more. Dudes just don't think of me that way. So. I am this inbetweeny sort of person. Now. But I'm attempting to get over this crazy wall of mine and just approach people. It's a process. Some days I can see my trail of bread crumbs and think, "I'm getting there", and other days I think I should trek to some nunnery in Vienna requesting sabbatical from a world where I have to think about these things.

But I will ask one of you someday. Oh yes. I will.

Good for you. You go girl.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Isn't someone still required to make the first move regardless of the fact that you're both women?

I've often wondered how lesbians ever manage to hook up since the vast majority of women are so reluctant to initiate things.

The beauty of lesbianism is that it does not fall into easy categorizations when it comes to 'making the first move' or any other aspect of sexual engagement. Quite simply, there are no 'rules.' Yet, it doesn't stop us hooking up. On the contrary. It's as easy as falling off a bicycle.

In my experience, it has been quite mutual and one doesn't really tally up who did what to whom and when. At least I don't.

 

[bluebell]

So come to Chicago next March. There should be lots of opportunities and encouragement to use them.

Yeep!
Thank you, VM. Very kind of you to cheerlead for me.
And on that note, I think I'd need you to do a little pom pom dance.

Good for you. You go girl.

And, rawr. *claws air* or something.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Isn't someone still required to make the first move regardless of the fact that you're both women?

I've often wondered how lesbians ever manage to hook up since the vast majority of women are so reluctant to initiate things.

In a lesbian relationship, there is no man to put the burden of the world on his shoulders; most likely some burdens just get ignored, like who has to be the more dominant/confident person, and so on. There's probably lots of flexibility in lesbian relationships that are never allowed in a heterosexual relationship, especially not allowed for men.

Men are not allowed to escape rigid gender roles; women simply ignore them. Two women together, don't even toss the rules right out the window - the rules don't even exist to warrant being tossed out.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Yeep!
Thank you, VM. Very kind of you to cheerlead for me.
And on that note, I think I'd need you to do a little pom pom dance.

Hmmm, never tried that one before. Could you hum a few bars just to give me an idea?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have been wanting this as a social norm my entire life. Although I bet I still don't ever get asked out

Oh, this brings up a good point, gentlemen--If you wish to be an object of desire, you have to make yourself desirable.

Here's Dusty Springfield's advice;

Show him that you care just for him,
do the things that he likes to do,
wear your hair just for him,
cause you won't get him, thinking and a praying
wishing and a hoping...

And, if you do these things the right way, she tells us,
You will be his!

You remember how it was for girls, in the old days? A billion-dollar cosmetics industry, (vitalis and a comb for the guys) all-day beauty parlors, (five minute barbershop) charm school, (nothing comparable) itsy-bitsy bikinis, (bermuda shorts) a full wardrobe (one suit)

I could go on and on. Yes, girls weren't allowed to do the chasing. But they played by the rules too, and did whatever they could to make themselves worth the chase, in mind and body.
Now hopefully, the playing field is a bit more even. But it's still true that women spend a lot of energy on their presentation. Even me, the slightly ratty old bulldyke, I won't buy a secondhand sweatshirt for the woodshop, if the color makes me look faded.

Come on now, guys! Pick up some of the slack! You want to be chased? Make it worth her while!

 

[rgraham666]

Unfortunately I don't package well, Stella. And what packaging is required I can barely afford.

Women are just going to have to settle for the product.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I package pretty good, depending on what day it is. The problem is what you might not like once the package is opened . . .

 

[Stella_Omega]

Unfortunately I don't package well, Stella. And what packaging is required I can barely afford.

Women are just going to have to settle for the product.

As women of the poorest classes know, it's not all about how much you spend. I buy almost everything from thriftstores. On sale days. Dollar store shampoo.

It's more the "Charm school" side of things, being aware of yourself and what your body language is saying. I'll think about this-- I won't just leave you in the lurch, okay?

Okay! Next excuse? Ah, here it is;

I package pretty good, depending on what day it is. The problem is what you might not like once the package is opened . . .

And isn't that true of a lot of female packaging as well? That's a whole other problem, really-- we're talking about the first date...

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Excellent point, Captain! Not that it matters in my case since the last date I was on was forty years ago. It became permanent, don'tcherknow. But I do try to avoid being visual pollution, all the same.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Excellent point, Captain! Not that it matters in my case since the last date I was on was forty years ago. It became permanent, don'tcherknow. But I do try to avoid being visual pollution, all the same.

Sounds like the product matched the packaging that time!

 

[Boxlicker101]

It was only a matter of time.

http://www.happenmagazine.com/magazine/article0.aspx?articleid=5847

According to this poll:

Only ten percent of men want to ask a woman out. 75% of men want women to ask them out.

Most men would be flattered and would say yes.



Very interesting. It looks like nothing short of a revolution by men, a desire for a complete overthrow of over a million years of rules of reproduction forced upon just about every species of animal and insect that ever evolved out of the muck.

I don't know of any animal or insect species in which the female is ever the aggressor...

Actually, that's not so among mammals. Except for humans, females always take the first step, although involuntarily. They come into estrus, letting males know they are available sexually, and thre guys come flocking around.

ETA: I did not read the poll, but I would bet it said something lke "rather" or similar words. All men who are the least bit sensitive and intelligent fear rejection. I suppose women do too, but men are much more lkely to be rejected by women than vice-versa.

 

[Boxlicker101]

How many women are prepared to do that, though, even in this day and age? I'd like to hear from ANY (straight) women who made the first move with their SO (not including the mr. populars that all the girls faun over and flirt with).

My first wife is not alive to respond, so I will do it for her. She made the first move in our relationship, and it worked out very well for both of us. And, I was NOT "Mr. Popular". More like Lonesome George.