Ropework photos

[rida]

Finally back on Lit and what many new wonderful pictures!!! Thank you Homburg-sama and viv-san for sharing

The macrame` collar is just lovely and the color really pretty! It is going to look so good on viv's skin ... (and I love the name Genevive)

As for the suspensions ... if I was craving a real rope bondage experience and suspension before seeing them ... now I'm ready to venture out there and find me a proper rope rigger here in town
(starts working on her ad writing skills, checks out the "how to spot a fake-Dom threads, starts writing down what she wants ... and gets stuck ...)

 

[Essene]

Ohh lookin' good Homburg.
I think the photos look great. They look really wonderful.
I love it when you post new photos.

From the mind of PM - The things she noticed in order of succession:

Boobs
"Hey that's Milly! She looks amazing."
Boobs
Boots
Boobs
"Oh hey rope!"
Boobs
"Oh solid knots indeed!"
"Oh I like those boots - they look like my red ones"
"Oh a suspension - Cool!"
Boobs
"Oh is that only twice around her chest with 6mm rope - that looks uncomfortable - oh wait I see it goes over her shoulder too. Cool"
Boobs

Did I mention boobs?

Oh Homburg - question: What if any is the benefit when making a chest harness to go over the arms as opposed to under? I can see and suppose from looking at the back of it that it could just be that it adds more security in terms of the tying, or for restraint purposes, or that it could just simply be personal style. - Just curious. I've seen a few variations, and I didn't know if there was one better way of doing it than another.

Thank you.

 

[Homburg]

amazing

incredible

unbelievable

dead sexy

homburg, you did real good!

v, you look amazing!

god this makes me want to get tied.

Thank you, darling!

---

I don't know much about the rope work aspect of this, but supporting someone by their limbs, unless in a crucifix pose, would be a really bad idea.

Just the other day I had my arm rotated back, felt no pain at all, then I could feel my shoulder start to separate and pull out from my body, still their was no pain. I taped out quick to be safe, theirs a stretch mark on my arm now. Point is, it’s very difficult to anticipate when those joints start to separate.

A) Why would a crucifix pose be a safe way to suspend someone by their limbs when it was used as a way to kill people? There are no 'safe' rope suspensions. They all have inherent dangers.

B) Once again, we're descended from brachiators. People do pull-ups all the time. People use gravity boots to suspend themselves for FAR longer than I suspended her, and with ALL of their weight on those limbs.

C) You can look at a vast profusion of suspension sites and see people suspended by their ankles. It can be done safely if it is done correctly.

D) There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between static loads imposed by suspension and dynamic loads imposed by grappling and submission locks/holds. I cannot stress the word SIGNIFICANT enough. If I was dropping her and catching the rope it would be similar stress. As is, it is radically different.

 

[myinnerslut]

question...

why did you choose the type of rope that you did for the inverted suspension?

 

[Homburg]

Finally back on Lit and what many new wonderful pictures!!! Thank you Homburg-sama and viv-san for sharing

The macrame` collar is just lovely and the color really pretty! It is going to look so good on viv's skin ... (and I love the name Genevive)

I'll take a pic of it when I get the proper lock. And thank you for the comments, rida-chan.

As for the suspensions ... if I was craving a real rope bondage experience and suspension before seeing them ... now I'm ready to venture out there and find me a proper rope rigger here in town
(starts working on her ad writing skills, checks out the "how to spot a fake-Dom threads, starts writing down what she wants ... and gets stuck ...)

Osada Steve, Randa Mai, Arisue Go, and a variety of others have bondage schools. They probably needs bottoms.

---------

Ohh lookin' good Homburg.
I think the photos look great. They look really wonderful.
I love it when you post new photos.

From the mind of PM - The things she noticed in order of succession:

Boobs
"Hey that's Milly! She looks amazing."
Boobs
Boots
Boobs
"Oh hey rope!"
Boobs
"Oh solid knots indeed!"
"Oh I like those boots - they look like my red ones"
"Oh a suspension - Cool!"
Boobs
"Oh is that only twice around her chest with 6mm rope - that looks uncomfortable - oh wait I see it goes over her shoulder too. Cool"
Boobs

Did I mention boobs?

If you look at the first pic, you'll see that there are four lines under her breasts. Those are the primary load bearing wraps. The rope above the breasts and shoulder straps are basically decoration and keep the harness in place. If you look where the cinches are under the arms, you'll see what wraps are doing the heavy lifting.

The top wraps and shoulder straps left marks largely because they were directly against skin.

As to the knots, it was kind of sloppy. It wasn't done for looks, as my focus was on solidity of construction and speed. viv can take a takata-kote fairly well, but leaving her in it for too long causes circulation issues, so it was more important to get the tie on and get her up than it was to make it look all purty.

Oh Homburg - question: What if any is the benefit when making a chest harness to go over the arms as opposed to under? I can see and suppose from looking at the back of it that it could just be that it adds more security in terms of the tying, or for restraint purposes, or that it could just simply be personal style. - Just curious. I've seen a few variations, and I didn't know if there was one better way of doing it than another.

Thank you.

It depends on what you're trying to do. I chose to go over the arms because I know my bottom. viv does NOT like to have her breathing restricted. A harness that just goes over the chest leaving the arms free puts more pressure on the ribcage, making it more difficult to draw breath. Going over the arms spreads the load.

There is no better way, per se, just better for your bottom. Some bottoms have nerve issues or shoulder issues what would contraindicate use of this harness. myinnerslut, for example, has a chronic shoulder problem. As a result, the takata-kote is RIGHT out for suspension, and probably not a great idea for floor work. It would not be horrible for floor work, but would have to be handled carefully, such as not allowing her to lay down, or otherwise put stress on the joint, and not leaving it in place for too long.

(Not singling out myinnerslut, just using her as an example of someone that has shoulder problems )

 

[Homburg]

question...

why did you choose the type of rope that you did for the inverted suspension?

The hemp? Lots of reasons.

1) Hemp does not really stretch much at all. It stays whatever length you expect. This is good both because your suspension lines won't stretch, and because your harnesses stay the same overall tightness.

2) Hemp knots REALLY well. This means your knots and hitches are going to be safer.

3) Hemp is rather strong. I knew I could trust the hemp to hold the load well.

Any of the rope I use could have handled this suspension, but hemp was likely to handle it best. I would've been perfectly happy to use jute or flax, but I know I don't have enough of those to do that sort of suspension.

It took about 150' of hemp to do this, by the way.

 

[Homburg]

By the way, the underarm cinches are really what makes the takata-kote work. They transform the lines of force in the tie rather beautifully. It's an awesome chest harness.

 

[myinnerslut]

There is no better way, per se, just better for your bottom. Some bottoms have nerve issues or shoulder issues what would contraindicate use of this harness. myinnerslut, for example, has a chronic shoulder problem. As a result, the takata-kote is RIGHT out for suspension, and probably not a great idea for floor work. It would not be horrible for floor work, but would have to be handled carefully, such as not allowing her to lay down, or otherwise put stress on the joint, and not leaving it in place for too long.

(Not singling out myinnerslut, just using her as an example of someone that has shoulder problems )

i know your not, and as ive said before im always happy to help.

adding my own two cents, if your bottom has any issus, check in with them regularly, specifically in ties that affect the problem area. for example, ive been tied in a way that put my shoulder out of commission for hours, and ive also done a tie similiar to what viv is in (not suspended!!) with no problems becuase A continuesly asked how i was and even stopped once or twice to rub the muscles in my neck and shoulder to keep them from tensing up too much. the attention of the PYL to the issue is more important then the choice of tie IMO, though both matter.

 

[Homburg]

i know your not, and as ive said before im always happy to help.

adding my own two cents, if your bottom has any issus, check in with them regularly, specifically in ties that affect the problem area. for example, ive been tied in a way that put my shoulder out of commission for hours, and ive also done a tie similiar to what viv is in (not suspended!!) with no problems becuase A continuesly asked how i was and even stopped once or twice to rub the muscles in my neck and shoulder to keep them from tensing up too much. the attention of the PYL to the issue is more important then the choice of tie IMO, though both matter.

Absolutely. I'm still shaking my fist over that one tie, but if he learned his lesson, and no permanent damage was done, I'll let him live. For now.

It is a VERY good point though. Attention is generally more important. Some ties, however, are just flat a bad idea, attention or not, for a given bottom. Got shoulder issues? Don't do a tie that tries to touch the elbows together behind the back, or even brings them in that direction. Shoulder or back issues? Avoid strappado. Low back problems? Steer clear of forced bows. Etc.

As a top, you should always be aware of what areas of the bottom's body you are stressing with a given tie.

 

[myinnerslut]

Absolutely. I'm still shaking my fist over that one tie, but if he learned his lesson, and no permanent damage was done, I'll let him live. For now.

It is a VERY good point though. Attention is generally more important. Some ties, however, are just flat a bad idea, attention or not, for a given bottom. Got shoulder issues? Don't do a tie that tries to touch the elbows together behind the back, or even brings them in that direction. Shoulder or back issues? Avoid strappado. Low back problems? Steer clear of forced bows. Etc.

As a top, you should always be aware of what areas of the bottom's body you are stressing with a given tie.

absolutly. there is a differnce between good pain and my-shoulder-hurts-so-much-i-cant-move-my-arm-for-the-next-three-hours.

 

[BiBunny]

Ok, I'm strangely fucked up, I suppose. I have chronic shoulder issues myself. The simple version is that the cartilage/tissue on the front of my right shoulder is ripped and torn so badly from repeated dislocations that my shoulder will dislocate itself at the slightest provocation, since there's really not anything there to hold it into place anymore. Some of the notable easy dislocations include it popping out while I was taking my shirt off and when I reached up to pet one of my horses' necks. It only dislocates/subluxes (partial dislocation) forward and down. The cartilage/tissue on the back of my shoulder is damaged, but not enough for it to dislocate or sublux backwards and up. Does that visual make sense?

I'm usually pretty ok for bondage, as long as nobody tries to suspend me by my arms. Oh, that and the fact that the tissue is so fucked up in that shoulder that if my arms are bound behind my back for any length of time, the pressing of the bone on blood vessels it's not supposed to press on will cause me to pass out if I'm standing up.

Anyway, the fucked up part of this is that I love bondage that stresses my shoulder. Not causes it to dislocate or sublux, mind you. I just love the additional pain, not in a masochistic way, but in a "more suffering for you" kind of way. One of my favorite things is to have my hands bound behind my back and my elbows tied in such a way that they touch. God almighty damn, it hurts, but since it's pulling my arms behind me, it's not going to make my shoulder pop out. When I'm untied, I have a hell of a time moving that shoulder for awhile because it hurts like a bitch, but there's just something so submissive about it to me.

Yes, I'm strange. And before anyone warns me, I figure there's not much more damage that can be done to this shoulder, considering the entire support system at the front of it is basically gone. Once I have health insurance again, I'll go have surgery to have it repaired, and I sincerely doubt I'll let anyone fuck with it after that. But for now, I enjoy the suffering in those positions.

Of course, "comfortable" bondage has always seemed like an oxymoron to me. I want it to hurt, dammit. I like things like Western-style hogties. *Sigh* And thus concludes Bunny's random bondage-related confession of the day.

 

[Homburg]

Ok, I'm strangely fucked up, I suppose. I have chronic shoulder issues myself. The simple version is that the cartilage/tissue on the front of my right shoulder is ripped and torn so badly from repeated dislocations that my shoulder will dislocate itself at the slightest provocation, since there's really not anything there to hold it into place anymore. Some of the notable easy dislocations include it popping out while I was taking my shirt off and when I reached up to pet one of my horses' necks. It only dislocates/subluxes (partial dislocation) forward and down. The cartilage/tissue on the back of my shoulder is damaged, but not enough for it to dislocate or sublux backwards and up. Does that visual make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

I'm usually pretty ok for bondage, as long as nobody tries to suspend me by my arms. Oh, that and the fact that the tissue is so fucked up in that shoulder that if my arms are bound behind my back for any length of time, the pressing of the bone on blood vessels it's not supposed to press on will cause me to pass out if I'm standing up.

Bondage that makes you pass out is not good bondage.

Anyway, the fucked up part of this is that I love bondage that stresses my shoulder. Not causes it to dislocate or sublux, mind you. I just love the additional pain, not in a masochistic way, but in a "more suffering for you" kind of way. One of my favorite things is to have my hands bound behind my back and my elbows tied in such a way that they touch. God almighty damn, it hurts, but since it's pulling my arms behind me, it's not going to make my shoulder pop out. When I'm untied, I have a hell of a time moving that shoulder for awhile because it hurts like a bitch, but there's just something so submissive about it to me.

Yes, I'm strange. And before anyone warns me, I figure there's not much more damage that can be done to this shoulder, considering the entire support system at the front of it is basically gone. Once I have health insurance again, I'll go have surgery to have it repaired, and I sincerely doubt I'll let anyone fuck with it after that. But for now, I enjoy the suffering in those positions.

Of course, "comfortable" bondage has always seemed like an oxymoron to me. I want it to hurt, dammit. I like things like Western-style hogties. *Sigh* And thus concludes Bunny's random bondage-related confession of the day.

Well, there is an axiom that says "If it doesn't hurt, it isn't really bondage". Not sure if I agree with that or not. Still, I accept that it will hurt, and, at times, I want it to hurt. Suffering can be a very beautiful thing. I do not, however, dig the idea of fucking with damaged tissues. BB, my dear, there are much safers ways to make you hurt than messing with a hamburgered shoulder.

In a case like this, some shoulder restriction would be fine, for limited times, much like anything else, but if it makes you pass out, it ain't good.

And Western hog-ties? Wrist dislocations SUCK. An ebi tie, or Japenese hog-tie, can be comfortable or uncomfortable, depending on how it is tied. No issues with wrist dislocations in an ebi either.

If you really want pain, dig into hojojutsu, the military/rule-enforcement martial art that is the precursor to shibari/kinbaku. Painful, unpleasant, nasty stuff that was designed for the quick capture and control of prisoners of war, criminals, etc. Ugly stuff, but effective.

ETA - Not jumping on you, Buns. Just saying that there are lots of other ways to produce pain. If you want some ideas, I can give them to you.

 

[YourCaptor]

There are no 'safe' rope suspensions. They all have inherent dangers.

Maybe thats what I was getting at, I’m not sure at the moment. Still haven't seen a live suspension.

To answer your question.

A crucifix pose it not necessarily safe, but it seems more workable in that it slows to hours what would otherwise happen in a mater of minutes. Its also a misconception that it was used to kill, it was actually meant to publicly display as well as torture the victim for a long period of time during which the victim would die from causes other then the strain, for example dehydration. I don’t remember the exact theory on it, but I think it was that putting the arms closer to the horizontal allows tissue to more evenly distribute the load, as well as prevent the rib cage from getting compressed. Seems safer then letting them hang straight down.

Static loads vs dynamic loads, that’s actually interesting.

Its counter intuitive, but dynamic force may actually be safer, unless all the dynamic force is exerted directly into joint tension, such as if you where to drop someone like you described. However if you give them a swing pomentum will start playing a role, redirecting the force perpendicular to the normal force and relieving some of the load from the joints. Hence you can hold onto a bar longer if you do pull-ups with a kick, as opposed to when you just dangle. Eh, but nobody try it, was just a bit of musing... as in I am not responsible for things gone wrong.

Anyway, getting back on track.

My original point was only that it is very difficult to judge how much time you have before joints fail, there is no warning system. Make of it what you will.

 

[Homburg]

Maybe thats what I was getting at, I’m not sure at the moment. Still haven't seen a live suspension.

To answer your question.

A crucifix pose it not necessarily safe, but it seems more workable in that it slows to hours what would otherwise happen in a mater of minutes. Its also a misconception that it was used to kill, it was actually meant to publicly display as well as torture the victim for a long period of time during which the victim would die from causes other then the strain, for example dehydration. I don’t remember the exact theory on it, but I think it was that putting the arms closer to the horizontal allows tissue to more evenly distribute the load, as well as prevent the rib cage from getting compressed. Seems safer then letting them hang straight down.

Actually, no, it isn't. Read up on Harness Hang Syndrome. It causes loss of consciousness fairly rapidly, and will kill a person deader than hell if they are released incorrectly. Dead. Quickly.

Actually, I'd suggest just studying up on suspension. There's a lot going on in a given suspension. I'm not just stringing the girl up willy-nilly. I'm using ties and methods that have been proven extensively. This is not me screwing around. This is life and death serious study and effort.

I'm not insulted by what you are saying, as you aren't trying to come off as an expert. You ar emaking objections that you consider reasonable. I'm cool with that. I am, however, strongly suggesting that you look into such things as mountain rescue, rigging, etc before you think I'm an idiot.

Static loads vs dynamic loads, that’s actually interesting.

Its counter intuitive, but dynamic force may actually be safer, unless all the dynamic force is exerted directly into joint tension, such as if you where to drop someone like you described. However if you give them a swing pomentum will start playing a role, redirecting the force perpendicular to the normal force and relieving some of the load from the joints. Hence you can hold onto a bar longer if you do pull-ups with a kick, as opposed to when you just dangle. Eh, but nobody try it, was just a bit of musing... as in I am not responsible for things gone wrong.

Anyway, getting back on track.

No, full stop. Negative, incorrect. Dynamic loading is the bane of health. The body, much like ANYTHING else, can withstand amazing loads if they are placed on the system gradually and smoothly. Rapid shocks cause gross tissue disruption, aka injury.

Think about it this way - If someone puts a loop of rope around your neck and lifts up on it, you will slowly be strangled. If someone ties that loop around your neck and over a sturdy post, then drops you six feet what happens?

Dynamic loads KILL people.

My original point was only that it is very difficult to judge how much time you have before joints fail, there is no warning system. Make of it what you will.

There is a warning system. It's called pain. Sometimes it fails. That said, look at the structure. The ankle ties were higher than the small bones, thus they weren't stressing the easily damaged stuff.

 

[Essene]

If you look at the first pic, you'll see that there are four lines under her breasts. Those are the primary load bearing wraps. The rope above the breasts and shoulder straps are basically decoration and keep the harness in place. If you look where the cinches are under the arms, you'll see what wraps are doing the heavy lifting.

The top wraps and shoulder straps left marks largely because they were directly against skin.

Ah okay. I saw the other ones, but I thought the rope above the breasts (though lesser of the load bearing rope)was helping to distribute some weight.

As to the knots, it was kind of sloppy. It wasn't done for looks, as my focus was on solidity of construction and speed. viv can take a takata-kote fairly well, but leaving her in it for too long causes circulation issues, so it was more important to get the tie on and get her up than it was to make it look all purty.

Oh that wasn't sarcasm. I realize that under a time constraint, that the most effective knot was preferential over something pretty.

It depends on what you're trying to do. I chose to go over the arms because I know my bottom. viv does NOT like to have her breathing restricted. A harness that just goes over the chest leaving the arms free puts more pressure on the ribcage, making it more difficult to draw breath. Going over the arms spreads the load.

There is no better way, per se, just better for your bottom. Some bottoms have nerve issues or shoulder issues what would contraindicate use of this harness. myinnerslut, for example, has a chronic shoulder problem. As a result, the takata-kote is RIGHT out for suspension, and probably not a great idea for floor work. It would not be horrible for floor work, but would have to be handled carefully, such as not allowing her to lay down, or otherwise put stress on the joint, and not leaving it in place for too long.

(Not singling out myinnerslut, just using her as an example of someone that has shoulder problems )

Thanks Homburg. I'm really digging this part of the topic. Now I'm decidedly more aware of the affects on the individual bottom in this situation.

 

[Homburg]

Ah okay. I saw the other ones, but I thought the rope above the breasts (though lesser of the load bearing rope)was helping to distribute some weight.

It probably supported some of the weight, but not much. That rope was actually rather loose. I asked viv after your post where the primary stress was and she said the four lines under her breasts, as I'd expected her to say. I asked about the lines above and over the shoulders, and she said she didn't even feel them.

Oh that wasn't sarcasm. I realize that under a time constraint, that the most effective knot was preferential over something pretty.

I didn't take it as sarcasm, I'm just, well, being critical of my own work, as usual. Some bottoms can wear a takata-kote all day, not viv. It's not a tie that has to come off quickly, but it' snot one I'm just going to leave her in, as her hands go numb.

Thanks Homburg. I'm really digging this part of the topic. Now I'm decidedly more aware of the affects on the individual bottom in this situation.

You're welcome! A good part of what this thread is about is education. Rope is the ultimate one-size-fits-all bondage, but you have to realise that you, as the rope top, are the one doing the custom fitting. And, much like a tailor, each body is different. Sure, the overwhelming majority of bottoms can take a two-column tie with wrists in front. It's as low stress a tie as they come, but do that to Bibunny and put any stress on it and that shoulder could sublux.

It really, really, REALLY helps to have a solid working knowledge of anatomy when you are doing this. Know where the major blood vessels are, and how to protect them. Know where the major nerves are, and how to protect them. Know how the joints work, and how to protect them. In short, know the human body, and how to keep from harming it.

I'm not trying to puff up what I do or what I know, but rope ain't exactly the safest thing to play with, as innocuous as it appears in comparison to others things we all do. Hell, I'd rather teach knifeplay to someone than try to teach serious ropework.

ETA: And please remember that I am NOT an expert. I have a solid working knowledge of rope and tying, sure, but I am far from what I would call an expert, nawashi, bakushi, etc. I'm just some guy playing with rope. Take what I say with a grain of salt and do your own research.

 

[Homburg]

Further riffing on the dynamic/static load issue, take a look at climbing supply wensites. You'll probably note that there are two different types of rope being sold. Yup, static climbing rope, and dynamic climbing rope. Again, the loads works differently.

In this case, static climbing ropes do not have a lot of stretch. This makes the climb and hold a bit easier. Dynamic ropes have lots of stretch, which has its' own issues, but has the big advantage of stretching when stressed hard, such as wehn you fall. See, it ain't the fall that kills ya, it's the sudden stop at the bottom. When you have a stretchy rope, it slows down that sudden stop by applying resistance slightly more slowly. It helps.

In the ropes I use, nylon and MFP are closer to dynamic ropes in that they stretch. Hemp is static, as it does not stretch appreciably. I've got some rope that I rarely use that is actual dynamic load rope. One is a long piece of black derby rope that I've used in an earlier set or two on viv. Good for load bearing, not so good for anything else. It's is braid over core, so it does not turn (knot) well. It supports bloody well though.

I also have some actual climbing rope. I use it for hoisting and loading heavy shit, such as when I need to hoist my motorcycle for maintenance. Screw a bike lift. I've got a great beam in my garage with serious eyebolts screwed into it. A coupla those plus some good rope and my bike was off the ground. Also used it a couple of times to *ahem* sorta rappel out the third story window. We had to do some maintenance on some trim, and didn't have a ladder tall enough, so I played anchor while my dad jumped out the window (he weighs less than I do, so he got outside duty while I got to fight the rope, lack of proper equipment, no place to anchor or even hold onto, etc. Yay for brute strength and tenacity). Good times. Yes, I'm descended from a bunch of crazy-ass rednecks that moved out of the sticks and brought our crazy-ass redneck tricks with us.

 

[YourCaptor]

(too much quoting so, screw it)

Harness Hang Syndrome, what the fuck, now this stuff is starting to make me really worry. Going by what I know about blood chokes, permanent brain damage can occur in as little as 15 seconds. It’s also a very violent death because around 45 seconds the victim will have a seizure. I thought, since I’m not into suspensions, it would be a nice romantic gift to take the sub to a suspensionist (or whatever you would call a pro), but now, damn, I don’t know. *scratches head*, if I ever do commission a suspensionist I’ll make sure to scrutinize their credentials like crazy.

Emm, I’m just gonna go with what I do know on the subject. So, I know people voluntarily have themselves crucified for hours with real nails. They don’t die. Plus, Roman records say that victims of crucifixion can stay alive for up to 3 days. Sometime they would be merciful and speed up the process by breaking the legs causing the victim to drop and asphyxiate, other times they would bleed them out. There are even records of people who where taken off the cross and lived out heir lives.

As for the dynamic force thing, think horizontal not vertical. The force you’re talking about going sideways would strain different parts of the joints, relieving force from other parts. It’s a swinging motion, not a drop.

Don’t be so hard on yourself, here in California I have seen people do some really dumb thing. For example, I actually once saw a guy sitting on a branch while he was sawing it off. Heres another one, half of my summer class, now this is college level, thought Alaska was a continent.

 

[Homburg]

(too much quoting so, screw it)

Harness Hang Syndrome, what the fuck, now this stuff is starting to make me really worry. Going by what I know about blood chokes, permanent brain damage can occur in as little as 15 seconds. It’s also a very violent death because around 45 seconds the victim will have a seizure. I thought, since I’m not into suspensions, it would be a nice romantic gift to take the sub to a suspensionist (or whatever you would call a pro), but now, damn, I don’t know. *scratches head*, if I ever do commission a suspensionist I’ll make sure to scrutinize their credentials like crazy.

*sigh* Research. Do the research. Chokeholds prevent blood from circulating in the brain. Harness Hang Syndrome has nothing to do with that. No, I'm not going to explain what it is. If you do the research yourself, you might learn more than if I simply tell you. Short of looping a rope around someone's neck and cutting off blood flow, you are not going to cause brain damage due to lack of blood flow to the brain.

Emm, I’m just gonna go with what I do know on the subject. So, I know people voluntarily have themselves crucified for hours with real nails. They don’t die. Plus, Roman records say that victims of crucifixion can stay alive for up to 3 days. Sometime they would be merciful and speed up the process by breaking the legs causing the victim to drop and asphyxiate, other times they would bleed them out. There are even records of people who where taken off the cross and lived out heir lives.

Again, do the research. I've been trying to explain this to you out of politeness. At this point, I'm getting a bit tired of trying to explain what is going on to someone who is trying to tell me what I should and should not be doing when they flat admit that they have no clue whatsoever what is going on.

To put it flatly, if you immobilise someone, as people tend to do with rope, in a vertical position, and leave them that way for too long, it could kill them. Folks who have been specifically crucified are not immobilised like they would be in rope bondage in that position, so there is not a problem.

Do some research. What you know here about crucifixion has no practical application in suspension.

As for the dynamic force thing, think horizontal not vertical. The force you’re talking about going sideways would strain different parts of the joints, relieving force from other parts. It’s a swinging motion, not a drop.

What are you talking about? You've utterly lost me here.

Nothing here is about dynamic force. Dynamic force is to be minimised in these situations. Dynamic force is BAD in suspension. I honestly can't make this more clear. Maybe, just maybe, it's a good idea for you to nod, smile, and trust the guy who does this shit.

 

[YourCaptor]

*sigh* Research. Do the research.

I did check what HHS is.

you are not going to cause brain damage due to lack of blood flow to the brain.

that is most definitely falls.

At this point, I'm getting a bit tired of trying to explain what is going on to someone who is trying to tell me what I should and should not be doing

I never told you to do anything.

if you immobilise someone, as people tend to do with rope, in a vertical position, and leave them that way for too long, it could kill them.

Now you are contradicting yourself

Folks who have been specifically crucified are not immobilised like they would be in rope bondage in that position, so there is not a problem. Do some research. What you know here about crucifixion has no practical application in suspension.

If there is a specific crucifix suspension, I wouldn’t know how it goes, I was simply talking about the arms out, legs together, and fastening them to something. That alone will not kill.

What are you talking about? You've utterly lost me here.

We can ignore that, I explained it earlier, but we can leave it out for now.

Maybe, just maybe, it's a good idea for you to nod, smile, and trust the guy who does this shit.

No way, that’s one thing I will never do. I question everything, its just how I am. Sorry if it’s making you sweat.

 

[Homburg]

I did check what HHS is.

Apparently it did not sink in, else you would understand what I am trying to say.

that is most definitely falls.

You lost me again. That sentence makes no sense.

ETA: Ah, you were trying to say "That is most definitely false". Didn't catch that initially.

It is most assuredly true. I was speaking rather specifically of HHS. HHS does not cause trauma by cutting off blood flow to the brain. The trauma is caused by pooling of blood in the extremities, lowered blood pressure, and, eventually, toxic shock. It is NOT cutting blood off to the brain.

I never told you to do anything.

Do what? Here are your words:

I don't know much about the rope work aspect of this, but supporting someone by their limbs, unless in a crucifix pose, would be a really bad idea.

Call me crazy, but here it sure looks like you're saying that the only safe pose is crucifix vis a vis limb suspension.

If there is a specific crucifix suspension, I wouldn’t know how it goes, I was simply talking about the arms out, legs together, and fastening them to something. That alone will not kill.

...

I'm going to type real slow.

Harness Hang Syndrome*, which you apparently did not look up, is what happens when someone is immobilised while in a vertical position. Y'know, like a crucifixion pose. Now, in a real crucifixion, the legs are immobilised at the ankles only. If you are doing a suspension, you aren't likely to do that. You're going to put more rope on there. Barring someone with a specific crucifixion fetish, you're going to be a smart monkey and put more on the bottom than the minimum, for both safety and comfort. The problem is that this will also have the effect of immbolising the legs, as you're going to be likely to tie those suckers to your stake/cross/etc. It's bondage. You want em immobilised.

Well, if they're bound at the ankle, they can, and will, move their legs, because it hurts like a motherfucker after a bit, and shifting weight from leg to leg is a way to help rest the legs. The movement will assist in bloodflow by action of the leg muscles flexing and relaxing against the single point support of the ankle wraps. If their legs are immobilised, as they would be in most applications of bondage, they won't be able to make those movements, and will have no single point to really press against.

This is when HHS comes in, as blood will pool in the legs and become toxic with metabolic by-product. After a while, this causes issues, as circulation become hampered, and the person passes out. Whee. The fun part is that a suspended bottom who passes out is likely to be cut down and then laid down. This causes death in HHS. The toxic blood in the lower extremities is allowed to flow throughout the body and toxic shock occurs. Whack, dead bottom.

This is why a crucifixion style pose is NOT a good idea in suspension. A crucifixion is NOT suspension bondage. There is a freaking difference. It is NOT practically applicable. Are you understanding me?

Or are you trolling? At this point, I'm beginning to think that you are either trolling, or are just too caught up in your own ego to get what I am trying to tell you.

No way, that’s one thing I will never do. I question everything, its just how I am. Sorry if it’s making you sweat.

Making me sweat? What the hell? No, it's irritating me. Learn something. Do the research. Ask informed questions. Your level of clue in this field is minimal, and you are trying to apply concepts from areas so unrelated as to be pointless. Crucifixion is not suspension. MMA trauma is not suspension. And the fact that you cannot see why dynamic stressors are more dangerous than static load in suspension boggles me. That's basic physics. And I am giving far too much creedence to your questions and comments for the sort of feedback and lack of comprehension that you are showing.

Questioning everything is only worthwhile if you are mature enough to accept the limitations of your own ignorance.





* - This is a VERY basic explanation of HHS in layman's terms, as described by me, a layman. For better reads of this topic, hit Google.

 

[myinnerslut]

suspension safety:

http://www.bondage-guide.net/post/suspension-safety.html

basic rope safety:

http://bondage.com/id/32/which/444/show_column.html
http://www.bdsm-chicago.com/cram/BASE_ropesaftey.html
http://bestslavetraining.com/bondagesafe.htm

HHS:

http://www.planet-interkom.de/uullmann/rescue/Syndrome.PDF

*note: i havnt read through these websites, they are the result of a quick google search

 

[Homburg]

Largely some very good good info.

I disagree with the blankets/pillows comment on the suspension safety thing. It really won't help all that much, unless you are flying your bottom really low. Look at what gymnasts use to absorb impact. That is the sort of standard you would need to adequately protect your bottom. IMO blankets and pillows present a footing hazard for the top. Something that presents a hazard for the top while not substantively protecting the bottom is not a good thing IMO.

---

At this point, Yourcaptor, I'm going to ask you to take further questions on this subject to PM. I can't really decide if you are baiting me or not, and I'm not interested in cluttering this thread. I'm also not interested in giving to much of an explanation of how to do suspensions on the thread either. So if you want to discuss it further, please hit my PM.

 

[sexycaz22]

Some awesome pictures, as usual, Homburg. I tip my hat off to you (if I had one!) and to viv, it does look really good.

 

[Homburg]

Some awesome pictures, as usual, Homburg. I tip my hat off to you (if I had one!) and to viv, it does look really good.

Thanks, caz =)