Reject non-Erotic stories posted to Loving Wives

[Mr_Neb]

There's a bit of a difference. Those bitching are the ones who supply the food and furniture for the place. The house is provided, but the users are providing the contents.

Ooo. I like continuing the metaphor.

Ok. So then it's like a pot luck. Everyone brings something to contribute and share.

There's a whole table labeled "Seafood Melange" so I figure maybe its loaded with things like a nice cerviche, or oysters on the half shell, or Po Boy sandwiches but nope. It's all tuna casseroles and I hate tuna casserole.

Should I complain to the host that everyone that brought something for the "Seafood Melange" brought tuna casserole just because I don't like it? The host has provided lots of other tables with stuff on it that I enjoy and are quite compatible with the dishes I have brought.

 

[sbrooks103x]

there is no 'hotwife' category. it's loving wives, they don't necessarily have to be 'hot', except in the sense of the heat between their legs. loving wives does not have to mean cuckold.

here's one featuring a hot, loving wife:

https://www.literotica.com/s/hotwife-surprise

Yes, I know that there is no "Hot Wife/Cuckold" category, but during the current "war" between BTB and Cuckold, there have been many references to "Hot Wife/Cuckold", and I maintain that "Hot Wife" IS "Cuckold", so saying "Hot Wife/Cuckold" instead of just "Cuckold" is meaningless.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

Yes, I know that there is no "Hot Wife/Cuckold" category, but during the current "war" between BTB and Cuckold, there have been many references to "Hot Wife/Cuckold", and I maintain that "Hot Wife" IS "Cuckold", so saying "Hot Wife/Cuckold" instead of just "Cuckold" is meaningless.

did you not even LOOK at the feckin' link i put up? hotwife does not necessarily mean cuck.

or am i talking to pork?

 

[lovecraft68]

Yes, I know that there is no "Hot Wife/Cuckold" category, but during the current "war" between BTB and Cuckold, there have been many references to "Hot Wife/Cuckold", and I maintain that "Hot Wife" IS "Cuckold", so saying "Hot Wife/Cuckold" instead of just "Cuckold" is meaningless.

Not really.

Right now cuckold is devolving into them all being wimpy men helpless to stop their wife from fucking other men, right in front of them, then cleaning up the mess.

But there are a lot of guys who have a 'hot wife' who do not fit that mold. They are excited by their wife being with another man whether they are watching or not and the wife also still has sex with him as well-whereas with the new version of cuck she never gives them sex, just a cock cage

And that twisting and devolving of cucks going from willing participants to just target of humiliation is what is causing all this crap. That and the out right racist attitude the wife is even sluttier and the man being even more demeaned if the lover is black.

In this day and age to see interracial sex as a taboo screams racism.

But we are talking about a category whose readership has hit an all time low in ignorance.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

As long as we're all bitching about categories, I'm opposed to the "Hot Wife" part of the "Cuckold"!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but to me "Hot Wife" seems to be saying that the wife is just TOO H-O-T to limit herself to one man, so she is justified in making him a cuckold.

So, in effect,"Hot Wife" IS "Cuckold", so why not just call it what it is?

...

I don't set foot inside LW, but as someone with a passing interest in English, that's got to be the oddest interpretation of a phrase I've ever seen. "Hot wife", if I saw it as a category, would imply to me fantasies about sexually attractive wives who loved sex. (For a lot of people that's fantasyland right there.) It doesn't imply a thing about fidelity, and the implication that any woman who's really sexy must and will stray from her promises is pretty damn insulting as a premise.

Things might go better if people used literal meanings for category names, which "Loving wives" absolutely isn't.

If we had checkmarks instead of categories, I'd expect:

sexy woman[] sexy man[]
marriage[] open marriage[]
revenge[] (death[] ruination [] humiliated[] failed revenge[])
adultery[] (by him[] by her[] secretly[] cuckoldry[] incestusous[])
nonconsent[]

So your idea of a hot wife would be sexy woman, marriage[] adultery, by her, cuckoldry.

A sexy wife in love with her husband (apparently a rare topic) is just sexy woman, marriage.

A man that liked to watch his willing wife get fucked by other men: open marriage, by her

A man that hated watching his willing wife get fucked by other men, but maybe got off to it anyway, a sort of upside down reluctance tale: adultery, by her, cuckoldry.

A man that arranged to get his wife fucked by others against her will: adultery, nonconsnt (and by Lit rules she better like it by the end)

And a man that didn't know she was cheating: adultery, by her, secretly, cuckoldry.

The terms have dictionary definitions, which in case of disagreement should be consulted. Because of that:

Note that if you don't check open marriage, and anyone has sex with someone outside the marriage, it's adultery. (That includes incest).

If the man is ok with his wife getting some outside, it's not cuckoldry. He has to dislike the idea.

You'd never get authors to correctly set the check marks and people will still argue over what adultery, open marriage and cuckoldry is, but at least that's a problem with authors and readers not using dictionaries, not the "category" as as whole.

 

[rjordan]

Not really.

Right now cuckold is devolving into them all being wimpy men helpless to stop their wife from fucking other men, right in front of them, then cleaning up the mess.

...

But we are talking about a category whose readership has hit an all time low in ignorance.

Interesting how some of the most vocal detractors of LW don't read it and don't write for it, yet they are experts on the readers and writers who do.

I'm wondering if it's misdirection.
"You write about a mom fucking her son?"
"Hey, look over there. Cuckolds!"

rj

 

[sr71plt]

...

I It doesn't imply a thing about fidelity, and the implication that any woman who's really sexy must and will stray from her promises is pretty damn insulting as a premise.

The equation of "hot wife" with cuckold struck me this way as well.

 

[rjordan]

...

I don't set foot inside LW...

[Snip all the expert advice on how to fix it]

There's a good reason for inertia in dynamic systems. It keeps them from flying apart. It's true in engineering, politics and economics.

Laurel and team have demonstrated it by building a dynamic venue that has grown steadily and remains an interesting place to visit for me even after 14 years.

rj

 

[TxRad]

There's a good reason for inertia in dynamic systems. It keeps them from flying apart. It's true in engineering, politics and economics.

Laurel and team have demonstrated it by building a dynamic venue that has grown steadily and remains an interesting place to visit for me even after 14 years.

rj

Logic won't work.

 

[sr71plt]

Ooo. I like continuing the metaphor.

Ok. So then it's like a pot luck. Everyone brings something to contribute and share.

Ummm, no, it's more a commercial food kitchen supplied by charity contributions. Literotica provides the facilities of a restaurant. A limited number of folks provide all of the food for free and a gigantic number of folks eat the food for free. The restaurant lets a limited number of advertisers advertise in the restaurant fully for the restaurant's profit and there's a small gift store, again fully for the restaurant's profit. The restaurant maintains its facilities--but not all that well. The restaurant promises that a new facility is being built--but then it's promised new facilities for some fifteen years. It does provide new chairs for a room or two, although not necessarily where patrons have pointed out the need for new chairs. It leaves broken ones in most of the rooms, though.

 

[Mr_Neb]

Ummm, no, it's more a commercial food kitchen supplied by charity contributions. Literotica provides the facilities of a restaurant. A limited number of folks provide all of the food for free and a gigantic number of folks eat the food for free....

Well done. I like that better. Shall we continue?

True. Lit provides the distribution for the few that contribute the food that nourishes the masses. Lit doesn't pay for the food nor charge for anyone for what they consume. Again you're right, there are advertisements on the wall and a small gift shop to keep the lights lit and the heat on.

From the point of view of the hungry, pointing out the shabby decor and that some of the fare is not to their liking may be tough to justify considering that they still have plenty to choose from and it's for free. Even so, if one doesn't like what is offered, complaining to the host for what others have brought seems misdirected. On top of that, that stuff is being consumed. What is one persons slop is another's delicacy.

So the place is getting a little worn around the edges. Arguably it can't handle the traffic efficiently. Maybe if the place were to open today, it would have been organized differently but it's tough to do renovations while trying to keep it all functional.

If it never gets any better, fine with me. After all, it isn't like I have showed up with a tool box, some financial help, and the willingness to help spruce the place up.

 

[sr71plt]

Well done. I like that better. Shall we continue?

True. Lit provides the distribution for the few that contribute the food that nourishes the masses. Lit doesn't pay for the food nor charge for anyone for what they consume. Again you're right, there are advertisements on the wall and a small gift shop to keep the lights lit and the heat on.

From the point of view of the hungry, pointing out the shabby decor and that some of the fare is not to their liking may be tough to justify considering that they still have plenty to choose from and it's for free. Even so, if one doesn't like what is offered, complaining to the host for what others have brought seems misdirected. On top of that, that stuff is being consumed. What is one persons slop is another's delicacy.

So the place is getting a little worn around the edges. Arguably it can't handle the traffic efficiently. Maybe if the place were to open today, it would have been organized differently but it's tough to do renovations while trying to keep it all functional.

If it never gets any better, fine with me. After all, it isn't like I have showed up with a tool box, some financial help, and the willingness to help spruce the place up.

Going back to square one, it's not the hungry who are asking to be included--it's the ones providing the food, who could just eat it themselves or sell it themselves or give it to another restaurant. They aren't the hungry ones. They do get some free food too--but not as much as they give.

Sorry, I don't buy, "Just shut up and keep shoveling food to me and take whatever abuse, imperial responses, and cat pictures I give you." (The "cat pictures" reference will likely go over your head, but not over those who have actually been here for any length of time--something longer than just two months.)

 

[Selq]

In regards to trying to remove consequence stories from the Loving Wives category:

If we start to reject btb loving wives stories for being non-erotic, then where do we stop?

I can make the argument that the willing cuckold stories are not really about a married couple, but more about a sub/dom relationship. That would mean that the proper place for cuck stories is BDSM.

Then there are the swinging stories. If you truly look at a swinging story, most are about multiple sexual partners and usually in groups. By that description, that would mean that the proper place for swinging stories is Group

Now, if you moved all three sub-genres to their "proper" category, then lit could simply rename Loving Wives to HotWife, because that would be the ONLY stories left.

In reality, this is neither desirable nor logical. Because the simple fact is most readers know the authors they like, regardless of subgenre, and avoid the authors they don't.

As for the argument that btb stories are non-erotic and therefore don't qualify, I would suggest reading the description of Loving Wives: "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more"

The problem with your argument is the "& more", as soon as that was added non-erotic stories became eligible for the category, making your complaint invalid.

Loving Wives is a great catchall category that many of us have read for years, and have enjoyed the wide variety of stories within it. If you can't handle the heat of Loving Wives, then maybe you should post your stories in another category (see above).

 

[rjordan]

Logic won't work.

Logically, it should. But you're right.

rj

 

[Mr_Neb]

Sorry, I don't buy, "Just shut up and keep shoveling food to me and take whatever abuse, imperial responses, and cat pictures I give you." (The "cat pictures" reference will likely go over your head, but not over those who have actually been here for any length of time--something longer than just two months.)

Those that bring the food have no more right to gripe about what others bring than those that are there just to eat. No one is strapped down and forced to eat what they don't like. Something may look appetizing but after a sample, there is a chance that it might be very distasteful. Lesson learned.

There are tables that I know have nothing I would ever enjoy so I just don't go there. As for the rest, honestly, even most of what I sample there is less than satisfying.

Once in a while though I stumble on a chef that really does it for me and I enjoy all they have to offer. I almost always let them know how much I enjoyed what they made. Then its off to search for another gem, unless of course I am just going back for leftovers.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

In regards to trying to remove consequence stories from the Loving Wives category:

If we start to reject btb loving wives stories for being non-erotic, then where do we stop?

I can make the argument that the willing cuckold stories are not really about a married couple, but more about a sub/dom relationship. That would mean that the proper place for cuck stories is BDSM.

Except D/s isn't BDSM. (There are more things to be done with a submissive than whap her ass with a ping pong paddle; and anyone looking to be dominant solely so they can feed their sadistic side is at best fooling themselves.) And cuckolding takes two forms, willing (which is open marriage, not always identical with submission, and not cuckolding at all) and unwilling (which is true cuckolding, straight up adultery and nothing to do with BDSM or submission). So cuck stories are either not really cuckolding, or not BDSM; thus cuckolding doesn't belong in BDSM.

Categories do not work. Any well written story that isn't a simple stroker - anything with real plot and characterization - isn't going to fit neatly into a single category for the same reason that most people don't fall entirely into any one category.

Personally, I don't write anal stories, or GM stories, or D/s stories. I write people stories, and usually my main character or sidekick undergo change as the main point of the story, so the beginning chapters rarely look like the final ones. Sure, they often explore themes of reluctance or submission. But there's no such thing as a submission story; only stories about people who discover eroticism and/or meaning in submission.

Anyway, please don't dump cuckolding stories in BDSM. The solution to a broken category scheme isn't to push stories into less appropriate categories. I don't want to wade through that trash to find something worth reading. It's hard enough as it is.

 

[sr71plt]

So, GM stories aren't "people stories." Well, gollllleee. But why am I always the last one to hear these gems of wisdom?

 

[RandyVicar]

Except D/s isn't BDSM.

Sorry to be that guy, but, uh, no. BDSM is a too-clever-by-half portmanteau of B&D, D/s, and S&M. Just because no one gets tied up or flogged doesn't mean it's not BDSM.

 

[TxRad]

So, GM stories aren't "people stories." Well, gollllleee. But why am I always the last one to hear these gems of wisdom?

After almost 50 years I'm surprised to learn that D/s isn't part of BDSM. I hope that "gems of wisdom" was sarcasm.

 

[lovecraft68]

Interesting how some of the most vocal detractors of LW don't read it and don't write for it, yet they are experts on the readers and writers who do.

I'm wondering if it's misdirection.
"You write about a mom fucking her son?"
"Hey, look over there. Cuckolds!"

rj

And you know what I read all the time?

And feel free to head on over to the incest section and gloss through a few days worth of comments.

Come back to me when you see the same level of hatred, racism, sexism and violence in the comments there as you do in LW

In fact keep going, check all the other categories for that.

The three so called squick categories Non con, Incest and Gay male combined don't have 10% of the malicious comments in LW

The readership speaks for itself and does so quiet vocally.

BTW the oh, you write incest is as weak of an attack as they come. Oh, no, they are kink shaming me.

FWIW the hyenas in the GB started a hate thread about me because of that. It died in a couple days because I happily posted along in it, because....just doesn't bother me.

I sell about $500 a month on SW with incest stories and another $300 or so on a European site that allows it.

Mom and son have been very good to me.

Then again I made a fair amount on the last cuck e-book I published too.

Like a few others here my writing is not limited to lit and its spread out between four pen names and only two have been mentioned here so people have no idea what I write and how often.

 

[lovecraft68]

After almost 50 years I'm surprised to learn that D/s isn't part of BDSM. I hope that "gems of wisdom" was sarcasm.

Hands has proved many times over he knows nothing of BDSM in addition to knowing even less than that about women.

As I pointed out to him many times before he put me on ignore because he had no answers to it, he's what gives BDSM a bad name, the fact he is part of a faction of pure rape and abuse fans trying to say "consensual' doesn't have to be part of BDSM anymore shows all you need to know.

I'm still shaking my head over a sexy wife who enjoys sex is a fantasy.

Let's here it for the eternally single.

 

[lovecraft68]

Anyway, please don't dump cuckolding stories in BDSM. The solution to a broken category scheme isn't to push stories into less appropriate categories.

This is a statement I've found myself debating for a long time.

I agree no cuckold stories in BDSM simply because it has its own place here, mostly in LW, but some of it can go into fetish and oddly enough-note this RJ-they don't get hammered over there.

But there's a case to be made cuckold is a form of submissive and could very well be considered a newer form of BDSM, another form of femdom.

I brought that up at a munch last year and it was fairly evenly divided between people who thought it could be and those who said, definitely not.

 

[lovecraft68]

The equation of "hot wife" with cuckold struck me this way as well.

Its not the word its the context.

In the kink world, hot wife means she steps out. In the past hubby was always great with it, it was a way of showing her off. My wife is so damn hot, here try here and find out. Now hot wife in many cases is "evil bitch who should be killed"

But saying a wife is 'hot' is entirely different, it means she's...hot, she's sexy and that's it.

But the kink has gotten carried away. You know the people in the fetish category yammer away that any woman wearing an ankle bracelet is a hot wife and steps out?

My wife where's them all the time because she likes them and...having a foot fetish I like them too, but who knew? Obviously I'm wrong and don't know my wife.

Interesting enough I read a book written in the 60's that spoke on sexual issues and back then men who had an overwhelming desire to share their wives had a condition referred to as "Trollism" I think, it was a long time ago I read this.

But they believed in treating it with counselling because of course back then it was seen as wrong. My wife has a friend who teaches human sexuality at a local college and he said now some therapists try to talk the wife into trying it to help the husband

I think its part of a plan to make money for their marriage Councillor friends.

 

[lovecraft68]

Going back to square one, it's not the hungry who are asking to be included--it's the ones providing the food, who could just eat it themselves or sell it themselves or give it to another restaurant. They aren't the hungry ones. They do get some free food too--but not as much as they give.

Sorry, I don't buy, "Just shut up and keep shoveling food to me and take whatever abuse, imperial responses, and cat pictures I give you." (The "cat pictures" reference will likely go over your head, but not over those who have actually been here for any length of time--something longer than just two months.)

All of your analogies aren't totally true though. Yes some authors stir the pot, no argument there.

But if you look at the threads people post complaining about the LW comments/readership, you'll see they are stories that are simply the story they wanted to write with no intention of trying to piss people off.

But they take the same heat-or close the flamers may get more-as any other story and that's what gets complained about.

If an author sets out to poke them, they aren't the ones complaining because all the crap they get is what they wanted.

But there are plenty of authors there who aren't trying to do that.

So your totally blaming the authors is another one of your cases where you have adamantly decided whose fault it is and will keep hammering away at it.

Its the readers more than the writers. If it were only the baiting authors then only they would see the hate, most stories over there see the hate.

The readership is the issue there. These people-the vocal majority anyway-hate the subject that LW features and they take it personally, its a category of scorned men and all you have to do is read a lot of the comments to see that.

What makes LW different is these people seem to enjoy getting pissed off, they're sick. The come to a category every day they know will upset them. I'm of the belief they secretly like it, then get mad they do and lash out.

Its a sad group over there.

But only there. Many people hate incest, many hate rape, a lot of people don't like GM....but they don't read there then blame the author for pissing them off.

A large portion of the readership-or at least those who comment are angry little men and the category will continue to be a pit and the only solution for people who aren't writing stories to incense them si to take their stories to fetish where the readership is friendly and open to everything.