Less than perfect characters

[Kumquatqueen]

Oddly, I've never had criticism of my characters being 'less than perfect' - or assumptions that having sex makes them imperfect.

I suspect it's a genre thing. Romance has structural expectations as @Bramblethorn has explained. I've published a story there when it fit that structure, and it went down well - FMC has various crap exes, but they're in the past and the story focuses on the male and female characters liking each other but thinking they can't get together as they won't be in the same country for long, then that barrier is removed and off we go.

Other categories (LW being an exception!) want sexual characters so are unlikely to criticise that, but if there's going to be sad or heavy content, have it marked early on so people not wanting that can click away.

My character Adrian refers frequently to having had therapy, which enabled him to (mostly) stop abusing lots of substances, though sex partly fulfilled the same purpose. In Smoking Hot Ch.12 he falls off the wagon and ends up seeing his psychotherapist again, and having to work things out with his new partner. I put the therapist in partly because you get so few in fiction.

One of the few examples I can think of is Linda in the Lucifer TV series (I understand she's not in the comics - I'm also told the series is much better if you aren't familiar with the comics) - it shows glimpses of a productive therapeutic relationship, and Linda is a great character, while also being totally implausible (invariably free to see Lucifer or friends, and ethics and accreditation slide out the window...) But it gives a general idea of the kinds of conversation a therapist and client might have, unlike the magic resolution which is all most films show.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Interestingly, I've had to do research for a story and it's fascinating how poor media representation is of the actual realities of psychotherapy.

Maybe I'm more out of the loop than most but I was surprised how easy it is to fall into convenience tropes when you think you're just using common examples.

That’s part of it, but there really are bad therapists out there, too. Some have agendas. Some have a pet theory or technique that they try to hammer into every client’s therapy, whether it works or not.

When I was younger and badly needed therapy, my parents insisted I go see a Christian therapist. I know there are good ones, but this one… wasn’t. Lots of stuff about how faith would pull me through, etc. She had her psych degree (masters, too, IIRC), but she was a born again, and… yeah. I went to a better therapist later, also a Christian one, but this one didn’t get in my face about it and treat it like a cure-all, especially once I told her I was an atheist.

There are all stripes of bad therapists out there, just like there are in any job. And, unlike with most jobs, they’re elective; most people don’t see enough different therapists to form solid opinions. And if your first one is bad, you’re probably not going to go back to see another. That could be the shitty God botherer I had, or it could be the divorce court-mandated “reconciliation is always an option” counselor, or the anger management guy who downplays addressing the actual, real sources of their client’s anger in favor of therapeutic bandaids, or…

Therapy’s great, most of the time. I haven’t been to a therapist in decades, but the good one I had was immensely useful in dealing with my shit. But that was only after I got over the immense distrust the first one created in me.

 

[lovecraft68]

Misogyny is alive and well all over Lit, not just LW.

There's a loud subset of readers who believe all erotica is escapism and "who wants to fuck normal women?" Doubly so if they have their own needs and wants.

Left out the real source of bitterness of the 'real men of lit' what woman would want to fuck them?

 

[onehitwanda]

I sometimes wonder the percentage of people who say "get therapy" who've actually experienced therapy.

People say "get therapy" like they expect it to be an insult. Joke's on them, getting to the point of being able to say "it's okay to be who I am" is liberating.

I was in therapy for two years. I will be forever grateful to the friend who made me go.

 

[lovecraft68]

People say "get therapy" like they expect it to be an insult. Joke's on them, getting to the point of being able to say "it's okay to be who I am" is liberating.

I was in therapy for two years. I will be forever grateful to the friend who made me go.

I went twice over the years, should probably go now with everything I have going on, but I'm in ride or die mode, I'll get by like I always have. That and my mind isn't very receptive to it because I don't like meds and I don't like people picking at my brain. My big issue with it is whenever you go, and over whatever is causing your issues its "Let's go back to when you were a kid."

Yeah...no. I'm in my damn fifties and my current source of stress is my wife's health and a few other real life things. It has shit to do with my shit childhood...but sure, let's dredge up that because pissing me off is bound to help.

That and today's answer of everything being meds and cannabis gummies. Sorry, if I won't be the slow, chemically dependent brain dead zombie the government wants us all to be.

I've come to terms with the fact I like being angry.

 

[luv2custrip]

Writing erotica is my therapy. I’m not being flippant; I’m quite serious.
I can see my writing frenzy coinciding with some rough times.
Whatever it takes…

 

[NoTalentHack]

I went twice over the years, should probably go now with everything I have going on, but I'm in ride or die mode, I'll get by like I always have. That and my mind isn't very receptive to it because I don't like meds and I don't like people picking at my brain. My big issue with it is whenever you go, and over whatever is causing your issues its "Let's go back to when you were a kid."

Yeah...no. I'm in my damn fifties and my current source of stress is my wife's health and a few other real life things. It has shit to do with my shit childhood...but sure, let's dredge up that because pissing me off is bound to help.

That and today's answer of everything being meds and cannabis gummies. Sorry, if I won't be the slow, chemically dependent brain dead zombie the government wants us all to be.

I've come to terms with the fact I like being angry.

Look, man, I know you and I have locked horns off and on, so please take this in the spirit it's intended, and not as a dig: based on what you just wrote, you sound like you need therapy. The kind you don't want, the kind that asks about your childhood. Maybe the kind that prescribes meds.

I had anger issues, too. Still do, although they were lessened when I confronted their causes. I manage them now, because they're more manageable. I used to be of the same school of thought, the "get on and get shit done" that guys, especially the ones our age, were told we needed to be. I didn't want people poking at my brain, especially after that first disastrous therapist. I didn't want to take meds, because I worried they might make me a zombie; admittedly, some did, but I talked with my therapist and we switched to different ones.

You're a martial arts guy. I am, too, although it's been years since I set foot in a kwoon. But I've seen, and I'm sure you have, the dude who walks in the door and treats it like him being there is a gift. That he already knows how to throw a punch, he already knows how to block and kick and throw and fall. And maybe he does. Sort of.

But he drops his shoulder before he throws a punch, and everyone can see it coming. His kicks lack impact because he doesn't put his hips into them. And his falls? It's amazing he hasn't gotten concussed more often than he has.

And when the sensei or the sifu or whatever term of respect you use in your art tries to correct him, he bristles. Maybe, eventually, after he gets his ass kicked by a yellow belt, he gets his shit together and listens. Or maybe he leaves, calls the whole thing bullshit, and goes to look for something else to do.

That's you, but with mental health.

And, yeah, just like there are bad senseis out there, the ones that will take the asshole's money and give him a belt every three months, there are bad therapists out there, too. But the good ones are the ones that guy will hate, the ones that know he's not going to get any better until he corrects his attitude.

And the therapists that want you to talk about your childhood, about why you've got this rage at your core that you're coming to them for, the one that's exacerbated by all the things going on in your life? Those are the good ones. They're the guys trying to teach you how to not telegraph your punches, to not throw weak kicks. They're trying to improve your whole approach, rather than just teach you how to punch a little harder.

As to meds? They're meant, for most disorders, to be a temporary fix until you don't need them anymore. I'm on exactly one medicine, for ADHD, because there's no reputable non-medical treatment for it. Before that? I topped out at three. They were the spare tire that got the car into the shop until I could change some shit about myself, to mix a metaphor.

Look, your life is your life. But the fact that it makes you mad that they want to "pick at your brain" and the frankly paranoid assertion that the government wants you turned into a drugged out zombie? Those are trauma responses. Trauma responses tend to come from bad, deep-seated shit in our past (often our childhood), and they don't go away without being addressed. "Ride on" doesn't fix them; it just makes the scar tissue thicker. It can be painful to confront them, but doing so lets us rebuild ourselves into something better, instead of limping along with a perpetual check engine light and four bald tires.

To return to the original metaphor of the wannabe martial artist, five years later, who do you think is the better fighter? The asshole who was sure he knew everything, or the white belt that started at the same time and stuck with it? And which do you want: to get better, or just to seem better?

 

[SimonDoom]

And the therapists that want you to talk about your childhood, about why you've got this rage at your core that you're coming to them for, the one that's exacerbated by all the things going on in your life? Those are the good ones. They're the guys trying to teach you how to not telegraph your punches, to not throw weak kicks. They're trying to improve your whole approach, rather than just teach you how to punch a little harder.

There's no point in therapy if one doesn't want it. It's only useful if you are receptive to it and if you fully open yourself to the process. That's my experience, anyway, both for myself and for others I know who have experienced it. If someone tells you that they like being an angry person, then you can't do much for them. If they don't want to get the lifelong chip off their shoulder, then a therapist isn't going to convince them to shrug it off.

 

[djrip]

That one was posted in Romance. As a genre, romance does tend to come with a strong expectation that the main characters will be monogamous once the main action starts, and to be fair it generally does apply to the MMC too. Not arguing with your other examples but this one isn't necessarily part of the double standard.

I did get away with a Romance story where the relationship between the two FMCs begins while one of them is still married to somebody else, but that one was a marriage of convenience between a gay man and his lesbian friend who needed to pass as straight.

How about a poly romance? Not a GS orgy, an emotional love story of a poly relationship developing between 3 or 4 people?

 

[NoTalentHack]

How about a poly romance? Not a GS orgy, a emotional love story of a poly relationship developing between 3 or 4 people?

Nope. Romance is even more regimented in what they like than LW, if you can believe that.

 

[Bramblethorn]

How about a poly romance? Not a GS orgy, a emotional love story of a poly relationship developing between 3 or 4 people?

Good question. Can't say I remember seeing any in Romance, but I'm not a frequent reader there.

 

[djrip]

Nope. Romance is even more regimented in what they like than LW, if you can believe that.

Almost makes me want to try it...

For that matter, where do you put a realistic drama about a person navigating through dating and relationships including maybe cheating (not loving wives, I'm taking about dumb mistakes in months-long dating relationships like a drunken party make out, or just non-exclusive dating scenarios) or maybe just a series of relationships where some end badly and some go well, like what happens to people in real life? EC or Novels and novellas I guess?

 

[NoTalentHack]

Almost makes me want to try it...

For that matter, where do you put a realistic drama about a person navigating through dating and relationships including maybe cheating (not loving wives, I'm taking about dumb mistakes in months-long dating relationships like a drunken party make out, or just non-exclusive dating scenarios) or maybe just a series of relationships where some end badly and some go well, like what happens to people in real life? EC or Novels and novellas I guess?

You don't, really. Novels is probably your best bet, like you said. EC tends to like shorter, strokier stuff, in my experience. There's not really a great place for "here's the series of interesting mistakes I made when I was young." Or for "here's what happened in my normal, happy marriage that led to monogamous sexual hijinks," although you can squeeze that into EC if there's no specific fetish attached to it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

You don't, really. Novels is probably your best bet, like you said. EC tends to like shorter, strokier stuff, in my experience. There's not really a great place for "here's the series of interesting mistakes I made when I was young." Or for "here's what happened in my normal, happy marriage that led to monogamous sexual hijinks," although you can squeeze that into EC if there's no specific fetish attached to it.

I guess Group is an option if there's a threesome in it, but not all poly will have that.