How to make amends?

[KierstH12]

......................

 

[whynotjustsayit]

When you act out of spite and superiority, that is what will be returned to you.

AMEN !

 

[Lord Pmann]

First, thank you for being a voice of reason, with no attacks anywhere in sight.


It's not what is happening to ms_intrigue that bothers most people; it's the fact that someone is MAKING SURE it happens to her that seems to piss them off. The question is, if you really think she should somehow pay for her actions -- as so many of you have said -- why does it bother anyone HOW she gets there?

So, you all want us to attack her? But not you?

And is that last question real?

 

[heavyhitter01]

No offense, but you are very ignorant on the subject of Karma. Karma cannot be forced, not by you and not by me. Vengeance is not and has never been a part of Karma.

I am a big proponent of natural consequences. I also believe without you intervening TL will suffer those natural consequences. It will not be on your timeline or in your way, but she will reap what she has sown. Unfortunately, so will you for the actions you are currently taking.

I could understand if the cat was not out of the bag and you sat her (or your friend) down and told them they either had to come clean or you would tell the wife. Unfortunately, that is not what you are doing. When you act out of spite and superiority, that is what will be returned to you.

I acknowledge that you might be entirely right on the subject of karma. However, as I stated somewhere earlier in the thread, my friend's wife made the comment that she believed karma would come around, but that ms_intrigue would have no clue what karma was coming around for.

That's the problem with people who do so many bad things, over and over and over. I believe, like you do, that karma eventually catches up. But when it does, they have done SO many bad things that they have no idea what they are getting their comeuppance for.

I believe ms_intrigue should know that this particular set of consequences are in direct response to a particular set of circumstances.

 

[heavyhitter01]

So, you all want us to attack her? But not you?

And is that last question real?

You can attack me all you want. You certainly are. So in the interest of fairness, yes, I firmly believe she should be "attacked" as well. That's not what has happened here.

The last question is entirely real. Why don't you answer it?

 

[KierstH12]

.................

 

[stronger_than_U]

No offense, but you are very ignorant on the subject of Karma. Karma cannot be forced, not by you and not by me. Vengeance is not and has never been a part of Karma.

I am a big proponent of natural consequences. I also believe without you intervening TL will suffer those natural consequences. It will not be on your timeline or in your way, but she will reap what she has sown. Unfortunately, so will you for the actions you are currently taking.

I could understand if the cat was not out of the bag and you sat her (or your friend) down and told them they either had to come clean or you would tell the wife. Unfortunately, that is not what you are doing. When you act out of spite and superiority, that is what will be returned to you.

Well said! I would pose you this question: Should all of us 'out' those that harmed us and feel it is our right or responsibility to do so? ..... ie, should I out the woman (here on LIT) who has been carrying on with my husband and therefore try and ruin her life. Why not let God do the big stuff and worry about my own home? My spouse and I need to fix what made him (and your friend) behave in such a dishonorable way.

It seems to me that retribution belongs to GOD and not us!

BTW, I DO NOT feel sorry for her or concern myself with your friend either, I started reading this thread because I was considering posting on her thread so that all of her 'devoted' followers would see her destructive behavior too.

 

[Lord Pmann]

You can attack me all you want. You certainly are. So in the interest of fairness, yes, I firmly believe she should be "attacked" as well. That's not what has happened here.

The last question is entirely real. Why don't you answer it?

Meh, I called you a shitsipper. That's a term of endearment, not an attack. And I apologized for calling you a fuckwit.

I don't want her to get hit by a bus, unnaturally or naturally. What you are doing isn't Karma.

You really needs to watch seasons 1 and 2 of My Name Is Earl.

 

[heavyhitter01]

Will you recognize your comeuppance when it comes around for you for the decisions you make regarding TL?

I certainly hope I do. I probably will. That's because contrary to what some here might believe, I don't have a long list of terrible things I have done. If karma comes around for me and bad things happen, it can only be in response to a handful of bad choices.

But those who make bad choices over and over and over (like ms_intrigue) don't have that particular luxury.

But then again, since I always take full responsibility for my actions, maybe the karma that comes around won't be so bad.

 

[bailadora]

It's not what is happening to ms_intrigue that bothers most people; it's the fact that someone is MAKING SURE it happens to her that seems to piss them off. The question is, if you really think she should somehow pay for her actions -- as so many of you have said -- why does it bother anyone HOW she gets there?

Because when people do not trust "the system" (be it karma, legal, what have you) to rectify injustice, you end up with the George Zimmermans of the world. He was purported to have said, "These assholes always get away." (Hmm, sound familiar?) Granted, that's an extreme case, but that's the whole point.

The problem with "justice" being meted out according to individual perceptions of "fair" is that it's a highly subjective definition. Who ultimately gets to decide where the line is drawn? Who gets to decide how far is too far? If it's ok to take matters into one's own hands, why have laws and a legal system to begin with? Why not return to the days of the Wild West where people shot first and asked questions later? Sure some innocent people may have been hurt or killed in the process, but hey, it's all about making sure bad people don't ever slip through the cracks. What's a little collateral damage, anyway? (Don't give me that old bullshit about no laws being broken in this particular case, because I know you're intelligent enough to extrapolate the example from the legal to the social.)

Contrary to what you think, it royally pisses me off when it appears bad people never have to pay the piper. But I'm equally pissed off (and quite honestly frightened) when people think they have the right to mete out their individual concept of fair punishment in response to their perception of justice. That kind of mentality makes it "justifiable" to go after anyone else for whatever perceived wrong. That's why I, personally, find what you are doing so objectionable.

You say that you believe that karma eventually catches up, but I don't believe that for a minute. If you did, you'd let it take its course in it's own time and manner. You're not after justice, you're after revenge.

 

[heavyhitter01]

You say that you believe that karma eventually catches up, but I don't believe that for a minute. If you did, you'd let it take its course in it's own time and manner. You're not after justice, you're after revenge.

I did say karma catches up. I ALSO said that those who do bad things over and over and over might never know the reasons WHY they are getting that karma. In fact, people like ms_intrigue do so many bad things that when karma does come around, they don't see it as karma at all...they just see it as a shitty day. Where's the comeuppance in that?

On a side note, whatever happened to the little "iggy" button you were so proud of several pages back? I thought you and whynotjustsayit decided to steer clear...I guess not.

 

[bailadora]

On a side note, whatever happened to the little "iggy" button you were so proud of several pages back? I thought you and whynotjustsayit decided to steer clear...I guess not.

You finally asked an intelligent question, so I responded with an intelligent answer.

Otherwise - I'm sitting here with my wine and chocolate, enjoying the snark being delivered your way.

 

[Sistinas74]

some more cents

I wonder why HH would even bother posting all this on Lit? I mean who cares if ppl on here agree or not with the whole revenge plan...or even for that matter why post anything at all and just do your thing? I personally wouldn't post anything on the internet about any kind of revenge plans in black and white for fear some hacker might find out who i really was & feel the need to royally fuck with me. Also, in messing with a person's job, family, ect...may have legal consequence?? Not sure no lawyer here.

 

[heavyhitter01]

I wonder why HH would even bother posting all this on Lit? I mean who cares if ppl on here agree or not with the whole revenge plan...or even for that matter why post anything at all and just do your thing? I personally wouldn't post anything on the internet about any kind of revenge plans in black and white for fear some hacker might find out who i really was & feel the need to royally fuck with me. Also, in messing with a person's job, family, ect...may have legal consequence?? Not sure no lawyer here.

You haven't figured this out yet?

It's part of her outing. She was fooling around with other people on here as late as last week. As soon as the name "ms_intrigue" started popping up, I started getting PMs from men who knew her, and women who hated her. Needless to say, my PM box has been quite busy.

There is also the fact that Google eventually caches everything. That's why there is a Facebook page dedicated to this, a few other pages out there that lead right to her, and of course...this fine thread at Lit, with so many mentions of ms_intrigue that Google cannot possibly miss it.

So thank you -- all of you -- for your help in making this little part of the outing happen.

 

[ima6uldv8]

I've had much relevant to say. As you yourself stated earlier.

Suit yourself with trying to delude everyone else but I know the real reason you'd avoid responding to me now if your comments would only be ineffective and useless.

Never addressed my post at all. And no, I would not be cheering if she got hurt or killed. Now I'm not going to say I don't think people shouldn't get what's coming to them. I think that's pretty normal behavior. The difference between the majority here and you is we aren't taking action.

 

[Sistinas74]

You haven't figured this out yet?

It's part of her outing. She was fooling around with other people on here as late as last week. As soon as the name "ms_intrigue" started popping up, I started getting PMs from men who knew her, and women who hated her. Needless to say, my PM box has been quite busy.

There is also the fact that Google eventually caches everything. That's why there is a Facebook page dedicated to this, a few other pages out there that lead right to her, and of course...this fine thread at Lit, with so many mentions of ms_intrigue that Google cannot possibly miss it.

So thank you -- all of you -- for your help in making this little part of the outing happen.

I understand, so because she frequents this site and meets the attached guys on here, you figure outing her ways on Lit will sabotage her meeting and seducing more attached men. I feel that will be a challenge on Lit or any other social forum because even if everybody knows the deal, there are always going to be guys that will be interested in ANY chick who is DTF. If anything it might advertise that fact and make her even more enticing to a lot! I agree the situation of your friend and his wife sucks and it does makes things seem impossible to mend when the "other"person in the situation wont leave it alone. I myself, have worn the karma cape a time or two when it was me who was burned. I kept it more contained though, and wouldn't want a lot of people to know I was capable of that kind of devious behavior.
I just feel such plans need to be carefully thought out to avoid any errors that could backfire. I would also urge your friend to take a break from these types of sites until his relationship improves. Good luck!

 

[heavyhitter01]

I understand, so because she frequents this site and meets the attached guys on here, you figure outing her ways on Lit will sabotage her meeting and seducing more attached men. I feel that will be a challenge on Lit or any other social forum because even if everybody knows the deal, there are always going to be guys that will be interested in ANY chick who is DTF. If anything it might advertise that fact and make her even more enticing to a lot! I agree the situation of your friend and his wife sucks and it does makes things seem impossible to mend when the "other"person in the situation wont leave it alone. I myself, have worn the karma cape a time or two when it was me who was burned. I kept it more contained though, and wouldn't want a lot of people to know I was capable of that kind of devious behavior.
I just feel such plans need to be carefully thought out to avoid any errors that could backfire. I would also urge your friend to take a break from these types of sites until his relationship improves. Good luck!

Maybe these posts will make her more attractive to the men on here, but that's not a bother. The point is in making sure her friends, family, former lovers, boyfriend, colleagues, etc. know exactly what she is capable of doing.

For what it's worth, my friend is no longer on sites like this. If you had read through the thread, you would see that he has moved on with his life and is now in a quite happy, strong relationship. The fact that ms_intrigue has continued to try to meddle in that relationship is what prompted my "vengeance" in the first place.

Thanks for the wishes of luck.

 

[lothwen]

As I have said many times before, she IS still trying to contact him. But I don't recall anybody stepping up and saying, "Oh, what? Really? Holy shit, she's still trying to contact a man years after the fact? That bitch is stalker-material!"

Instead, it's all about calling me names and trying to bring ME to heel. Because, you know, I'm the one who's here and willing to fight with you over it. Drama and all that. If it weren't so sad it would be funny, I think.

Fortunately, I'm not concerned about what any of you think here, because like I said before, this is a virtual locker room. None of you are my friends. None of you could possibly have any impact on my choices.

I am sorry to see that ms_intrigue/The_Librarian gets so much loving attention here, because she is someone who will take any scrap she can to justify her actions. She's selfish enough to think that you all actually care about her, and that you are coming to her defense.

Only a few people here have gone on record to say she's a homewrecking whore. The rest of you are all about "she must have problems" and "she needs help" and "counseling is good." That might work for most people. But people like her take things like that as permission, because now she has an excuse: That she's messed up! That she can't help it!

That is complete and utter bullshit, of course. But you keep feeding it to her.

I guess all I can say in closing is that if you have a husband who plays on Lit, beware. If you are a man who is playing on Lit in the hopes of finding someone who cheat with, remember that your little dalliance might turn into a nightmare. Very bad people here can hide behind whatever persona they want, and the gentle "you need help" attitude is often just the kind of tacit approval they need to continue doing the immoral things they do.

This proves that you are not reading any of our posts, except to pick and choose what you want to see. Okay, she IS contacting your friend-I never said she wasn't. What I was saying was that if that's what's going on then you need to be helping him out. When somebody says "If" it sometimes doesn't mean that they doubt the situation. Learn to read through an entire post before you respond.

Also, you obviously ignored where I said I felt that TL had no remorse for her actions, only that she got caught. Am I throwing stones? No, because I have no right to do that to anybody, but am I condoning her actions? I'd like to see anywhere where I said that she needed "help' or was "misunderstood" or said "there there, it's okay, we all make mistakes."

 

[Lord Pmann]

You finally asked an intelligent question, so I responded with an intelligent answer.

Otherwise - I'm sitting here with my wine and chocolate, enjoying the snark being delivered your way.

You're getting better with your snark.

 

[heavyhitter01]

This proves that you are not reading any of our posts, except to pick and choose what you want to see. Okay, she IS contacting your friend-I never said she wasn't. What I was saying was that if that's what's going on then you need to be helping him out. When somebody says "If" it sometimes doesn't mean that they doubt the situation. Learn to read through an entire post before you respond.

Also, you obviously ignored where I said I felt that TL had no remorse for her actions, only that she got caught. Am I throwing stones? No, because I have no right to do that to anybody, but am I condoning her actions? I'd like to see anywhere where I said that she needed "help' or was "misunderstood" or said "there there, it's okay, we all make mistakes."

I quoted that particular part of your post because obviously YOU didn't read some of the previous comments. I had already said she was still trying to contact him, but apparently you missed that somewhere. You wouldn't have had to use the "if" if you had actually paid attention, so I chose to quote THAT portion of your post to set the record straight.

The rest of your post seemed directed toward "TL" and everyone else in general, so of course I'm not going to respond to that. Though now that you pointed it out again, I will say that I'm glad you don't feel as though ms_intrigue has remorse for her actions. You are quite correct on that one.

 

[culloden]

Wow. I travel for work a couple of days, and come home to this!

HH, I don't know if you're full of shit, or if TH is full of shit. It's the internet, so it's all hypothetical. My advice to her was based only what she said, as I had no more knowledge than that. If TH is still contacting the husband, she's way in the wrong. But what you call group think is really just a group of people with similar ethics drawing similar conclusions based on the same posited situation. No one should be surprised at that.

As to condoning cheating, well, I don't condone it. The people I've gotten to know here don't condone it. In general, I've never seen the HT regulars condone cheating when someone looks for validation or permission. Sure, the occasional halfwit wanders in to cheer, but that's rarely anyone with more than about 10 posts to their credit.

It comes down to this. If TH was honest, she gets to try to move on. If you are honest, she's a poor excuse for a human being. In the end, she won't be happy. But if you're honest about what you're trying to do to her, I don't think you're acting any better than she is. And that's a shame, because at the bottom, you seem to want good things for good people. It's when you step over the line into being LitAvenger that you lose my sympathy.

 

[njlauren]

Oh good grief. Perhaps her craziness IS karma for what my friend did. His wife actually suggested that very thing, so your epiphany was reached by someone else well over a year ago, and definitely considered.

The point here is not how my friend is paying for what he did, but the fact that ms_intrigue has NOT paid for what SHE did.

I have never said my friend didn't deserve karma. I have simply said that karma needed some help in balancing the scales.

Your post sounds almost gleeful that you might have found some way to make me look like an even worse person than you have already painted me out to be. Sorry, man. That won't work.

But ironically enough, it does remind me again of "group think" -- logic didn't work for any of you, so now your posts have taken a tone of attack. You REALLY don't see how you mimic each other like lemmings, do you?

This brings it back to the original point, whatever the OP did (and no, mental health issues are not an excuse for what she did, nor is it condoning what she did, that old canard that somehow the consequences of people's actions is wiped away by excuses is idiotic; the fact is the OP had issues that led her to do this and she did nothing to try and fix it). People took her at face value she wanted to change and gave advice. The worst slut in the world, the most horrible person, can deserve a second chance and while adultery is not a nice thing (and chief I have seen the results up close and personal, and it is horrible, I have helped pick up the pieces), it isn't exactly on the same level as killing someone or abusing a child. I would never condone cheating in any form like this, because I have seen that pain...

On the other other I also don't condone what you are doing. Protecting your friend is one thing, getting revenge on her for them by being judge, jury and executioner is way different. You are deciding what her penalty is because you have decided she hasn't been punished, but yet you were not directly involved, you were not hurt by what she did. It is a form of self righteousness and in the end , you will end up hurting yourself doing this, this kind of campaign you are waging can destroy the person doing it. Believe it or not, I care more about you then I do her, if simply because I believe underneath it all you really cared about your friend and are angry on his and his wife's behalf and I can understand that, but what you are doing isn't going to help anything.

And yes, outing her to her boss if he decides to fire her can get you into a load of trouble. It probably wouldn't be slander since I assume you are reporting the details, but it is also irrelevant to her job, her morality is not of issue here since if she works with kids, what she did was consensual sex with a consenting adult, she didn't rape the guy or kidnap him, it was a moral transgression not relevant to her job. In a sense, it is no different then a born again Christian firing an employee who comes out as gay, it is no different then an employer firing an employee because she is on the pill and he is orthodox catholic, it is firing someone for something with no relationship to the job, and in most places it would be considered wrongful dismissal and you could be hit with a harassment suit (you could be even without the employment thing, what you are doing could be considered harassment and stalking, and whatever she is or isn't doing to your friend has nothing to do with it; and if you feel she is stalking him, tell him to file for an order of protection and threaten her with harassment if she keeps stalking him.

I think there is a lot of misplaced anger there and it is going to get you in trouble if you keep this up, I am pretty well certain of that. Like I said, convince your friend to protect himself but what you are doing is simply acting out your own anger issues, maybe guilt over your own incident, rather then helping your friend. If the OP is really a threat to your friend, then encourage him to do something about it, if she isn't let her go, because quite honestly there is no percentage in what you are doing, you want to make her feel pain but in the end want to know something? It probably won't make you feel any better, you are still going to have the anger you haven't released and that isn't healthy. To me it is a form of obsession.....

And if the OP is still going after him (and one question, when was the last time the OP posted stuff on lit to reach the guy) I have another observation. If the friend really made amends with his wife, was truly repentant, and so forth, then she poses no real threat to him, and quite obviously, neither he nor his wife seem to think she is a threat, because they haven't done anything against her..you almost seem to feel if you don't destroy her, she will destroy your friend, and that I suspect would get him pissed because it means you think he is still weak........

And think about this, if for arguments sake what you are doing is constituted going over a legal line, lawsuit, whatever, how will your friends feel? How would your friends feel knowing you are obsessing like this? You implied they sort of know what you are doing, which means they don't know, and the question is why? If you feel you need to do this, potentially at least in part on their behalf, why haven't you mentioned it to them? Could you be afraid they would tell you what others have told you, it isn't worth it?

And I am not talking from experience. I faced something much worse then your friend in my life, my sweetie was the victim of horrible sexual abuse, and it totally fucked up things with us sexually and I had my mother in law living with us, who was equally guilty of what happened to her, and like the OP she was totally unrepentant (her only statement when confronted about it? And mind you this went on for 7 years at least, and she knew.....'don't tell anyone, I value my reputation'.......). Vile isn't the word, and quite honestly I could have strangled the bitch and gone back to europe and find the father and hack him to bits slowly, but I didn't because a)if I threw the mother out of our house and told her to drop dead, it would have done serious damage to my sweetie at the time and b)I probably would have gotten the worse penalty (unfortunately our asshole society still has this idea that allowing child molestation is no big deal, parents who know get a free pass, all kinds of excuses, etc) and what good what they have done? And believe me, when I found out what happened and realized how much impact that had on our lives, I was as angry as I have ever been, and I have the kind of temperament to want revenge...but it was eating me up, and in the end it was doing the wrong thing for the thing I was trying to protect, that kind of anger does..and to this day there is a lot of anger, because basically there was nothing I really could do to get my pound of flesh, but in many ways it was a good thing I couldn't. And I lost a lot with what happened, I could argue more then what happened to your friend, because it took a long time for the healing to happen, I mean a really long time and it fucked up a lot of dreams and such.....

So I am not telling you this as some jerk off the street hypothesizing, I am telling you as someone who has been there, it isn't worth it. Do with it as you will, if you think I am enamored of the OP, think she is great, prob nothing I can do to change your mind, but I never said she was innocent or misunderstood, I was applying something I tried and failed with my MIL, to give someone who did something rotten a chance to change themselves. No, it isn't noble if the OP had her epiphany in fear, but I wasn't looking for nobility, I was simply giving someone ideas on what they could do if they really wanted to.

 

[Noor]

Sirens don't exist.

enough of this sanctimonious bullshit!
just who do you think you are? Judge, jury, G-d?

your friend broke his agreement with his wife, his fault, his problem.
the person he decided to do that with is also his problem.

The OP did not have an agreement with you or your friend's wife, so not your business.

most of this board cheats, shall we have a witch trial for all of them?
60% of men supposedly cheat with 30% of women.

Most cheaters are repeat cheaters, big deal, their partners can deal with them. You don't like it, don't have sex with them.

Get over it, get a life.

If you want to do something helpful, help your friend become a stronger man, help him figure out why he felt the need to cheat, why he decided it was okay to break an agreement.

Its not like she repeatedly raped him, they had consensual sex. Your friend chose this, its on his head. Thank you for warning the numerous weak minded cheating males on this board that the Op might be someone to avoid but beyond that you are just making yourself look like someone that many women here would not want in their lives.

 

[Eilan]

You really needs to watch seasons 1 and 2 of My Name Is Earl.

I'm seeing more "Goodbye Earl" in his posts.

 

[bailadora]

most of this board cheats

If you are referring to Lit in general, then maybe. But if you mean HT specifically, then nope. Sorry. Some who frequent HT may indeed cheat. But I dispute that most of those who consider themselves HT regulars do so. Otherwise there'd not be such heavy censure each and every time a cheater comes looking for validation.