How to make amends?

[Noor]

If you are referring to Lit in general, then maybe. But if you mean HT specifically, then nope. Sorry. Some who frequent HT may indeed cheat. But I dispute that most of those who consider themselves HT regulars do so. Otherwise there'd not be such heavy censure each and every time a cheater comes looking for validation.

I meant lit in general. I do not support cheating but I also don't support moral vigilantes either. I figure the OP ask our advice, we gave it. Her motives maybe suspect but that doesn't mean we don't answer her.

 

[bailadora]

I meant lit in general. I do not support cheating but I also don't support moral vigilantes either. I figure the OP ask our advice, we gave it. Her motives maybe suspect but that doesn't mean we don't answer her.

Agreed. On all points.

 

[heavyhitter01]

And think about this, if for arguments sake what you are doing is constituted going over a legal line, lawsuit, whatever, how will your friends feel? How would your friends feel knowing you are obsessing like this? You implied they sort of know what you are doing, which means they don't know, and the question is why? If you feel you need to do this, potentially at least in part on their behalf, why haven't you mentioned it to them? Could you be afraid they would tell you what others have told you, it isn't worth it?

This is an interesting set of questions. I don't have much time as work is calling, but I will say a few things before I head off for the day.

First, this doesn't cross a legal line. I actually consulted an attorney about this and learned exactly what the boundaries are. Since I am not lying about anything at all and have the proof to back it all up, there is no legal issue.

I did mention it to my friends. When I said they knew "somewhat" of what I am doing, I meant that they know how I feel and what my intentions are, but they don't know the details. My friends are aware that negative things are probably going to happen to her. Both of them have said that they are staying out of it.

Frankly, I think they will just be glad to get her out of their hair. Both of them have clearly said they don't give a shit what happens to her (as it should be, of course). They are happier than I have ever seen them, and so it's time for little ms_intrigue to leave them alone.

Off to work, kids. Be good!

 

[Sistinas74]

I couldn't find anything her online but I didn't have a whole lot of time plus the term "ms_intrigue" pulls up a lot of numerous adult things on the internet not pertaining to a specific person though. My interest is spiked so please direct me to where I can be updated on this scenario Since there has been so much effort in drawing everyone into learning so much about it why stop now?

 

[TeaforMe]

I couldn't find anything her online but I didn't have a whole lot of time plus the term "ms_intrigue" pulls up a lot of numerous adult things on the internet not pertaining to a specific person though. My interest is spiked so please direct me to where I can be updated on this scenario Since there has been so much effort in drawing everyone into learning so much about it why stop now?

I have to laugh because I, too, looked to see this fabulous cache google would turn up, and me oh my...the real Miss Intrigue is quite the endowed woman! so just where is the treasure trove of info?

 

[Sistinas74]

I have to laugh because I, too, looked to see this fabulous cache google would turn up, and me oh my...the real Miss Intrigue is quite the endowed woman! so just where is the treasure trove of info?

Yes!! I am definitely interested in seeing a pic or two of the lady in the middle of all this!

 

[KierstH12]

.......................

 

[Lord Pmann]

Yes!! I am definitely interested in seeing a pic or two of the lady in the middle of all this!

All I know is this girl better have three boobs and two vaginas.

 

[Sistinas74]

lol

All I know is this girl better have three boobs and two vaginas.

Haha, agreed! It makes me wonder what kind of fetishes or kinky stuff she was interested in. I'm also wondering if maybe some other alternative sexual lifestyles wouldn't be more satisfying for her involving more people. All being consensual and not involving others with attached unknowing significant others of course.

 

[ima6uldv8]

I have to laugh because I, too, looked to see this fabulous cache google would turn up, and me oh my...the real Miss Intrigue is quite the endowed woman! so just where is the treasure trove of info?

Lol! I looked, too. I think he's taking a lot of joy in all of this. He doesn't realize that all of the hate or whatever it is he's feeling harms him, too. He seems hell bent on doing all the damage he can do.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I really do want to know what is so awesome. I mean, how hot is she? And seriously, how many vaginas does she have? This girl sounds amazing. I wish she would come back. You know, so we could talk.

 

[TeaforMe]

What you do not understand is that you are keeping her in their hair by pursuing vengeance on their behalf. You are part of their lives and you have now made her part of your life, so by extension she continues to be intertwined in their lives.

If they do not give a shit what happens to her, why does it mean so much to you? If they are happier than they have ever been, why not leave well enough alone? You could be stirring up a hornet's nest that eventually hurts your friends. Perhaps you are afraid your friend is not the man you say he is, and if TL is continuing to call, you are afraid he will be tempted again by her or someone new?

Oh he understands, he just does not care. He only cares about his own selfish vendetta at this point and not who it effects along the way, TL aside.

 

[silverwhisper]

nevermind!

 

[Ellafun]

What you do not understand is that you are keeping her in their hair by pursuing vengeance on their behalf. You are part of their lives and you have now made her part of your life, so by extension she continues to be intertwined in their lives.

If they do not give a shit what happens to her, why does it mean so much to you? If they are happier than they have ever been, why not leave well enough alone? You could be stirring up a hornet's nest that eventually hurts your friends. Perhaps you are afraid your friend is not the man you say he is, and if TL is continuing to call, you are afraid he will be tempted again by her or someone new?

This is what I was thinking, also. I just don't understand WHY it is so important to HH to exact revenge on TL. I honestly couldn't care less about either one of them, but this thread is my new guilty pleasure.

What the hell did she do to YOU, HH? Are you in love with your friend? His wife? with TL? I just don't get it. I mean, I would go to bat for my friends and all, but this? It's over the top.

But whatever, carry on. This shit is more entertaining than the Lifetime Network.

 

[bailadora]

nevermind!

Aw c'mon, Ed! I've been waiting AGES for you to show up here.

 

[Thefamiliar]

May I be so bold?

HH is still trying to atone for his own transgressions, while not fully realizing the need to do so. The anger stems from everything being so very close to the core of his being, he can't do anything other than what he is doing right now.

The added effect is that TL has not felt the true depth of the pain caused. That only comes in time and upon reflection.Anyone who knows it doesnt bother to ask how to make amends for they know its not possible.

In truth HH may be doing the only thing that will discourage TL from contacting his friends. He is willing to sell his soul to do it. He is in fact reaping his karma in doing so.

If TL is truly remorsefull she will own her actions and step out of the frey. If not she will keep going back for more.

More than likely she will repeat her actions until there is no one left to champion her. When she is left alone in the world, perhaps she will introspect. The only reason to make a public attempt to fix oneself is to manipulate others for your own ends. Admitting to mistakes is one thing, to try to convince others you want to change while still in the place the transgretion was made, quite another.

She would have come clean under the name in which she was known if the intent was true.

I was on both sides of this fence, on top and underneath. We only do as we are driven to do by our innervoice. Nothing outside of the self truly makes a difference. When the inner is healed we see things as they really are.

Counseling doesnt help those who know how to manipulate those around you. Empathy not learned as a ch%ld most likely will elude an adult. Its an easy thing to imitate, and difficult to discern.

I will only say, let karma be dealt swiftly for good or ill. It is so.

Its hard to understand those intentions which you yourself have never had. It takes a lot to slip into anothers shoes and walk the paths they take. Don't be so quick to judge, for judgement keeps you in darkness, even if its yourself you judge.

I hope the best for all involved.

 

[njlauren]

This is what I was thinking, also. I just don't understand WHY it is so important to HH to exact revenge on TL. I honestly couldn't care less about either one of them, but this thread is my new guilty pleasure.

What the hell did she do to YOU, HH? Are you in love with your friend? His wife? with TL? I just don't get it. I mean, I would go to bat for my friends and all, but this? It's over the top.

But whatever, carry on. This shit is more entertaining than the Lifetime Network.

Oprah could build a new cable network around it....

 

[njlauren]

This is an interesting set of questions. I don't have much time as work is calling, but I will say a few things before I head off for the day.

First, this doesn't cross a legal line. I actually consulted an attorney about this and learned exactly what the boundaries are. Since I am not lying about anything at all and have the proof to back it all up, there is no legal issue.

I did mention it to my friends. When I said they knew "somewhat" of what I am doing, I meant that they know how I feel and what my intentions are, but they don't know the details. My friends are aware that negative things are probably going to happen to her. Both of them have said that they are staying out of it.

Frankly, I think they will just be glad to get her out of their hair. Both of them have clearly said they don't give a shit what happens to her (as it should be, of course). They are happier than I have ever seen them, and so it's time for little ms_intrigue to leave them alone.

Off to work, kids. Be good!

If her boss fired her for the information you gave him, there could be lawsuits for unlawful termination. While I am not a lawyer, as part of management training you learn about employment law and something like this would be considered illegal. You could be dragged into the lawsuit, technically your could be party to it.

Likewise she could also bring suit against you for harassment (she couldn't bring libel charges for obvious reasons). If you take it too far, it could also constitute a criminal offense if it was felt you posed a threat to her or if you continually harassed her, it could be considered obsessive behavior under the right circumstances.

Obessions like you have often lead to unintended consequences and it wise to keep that in mind.

 

[TeaforMe]

If her boss fired her for the information you gave him, there could be lawsuits for unlawful termination. While I am not a lawyer, as part of management training you learn about employment law and something like this would be considered illegal. You could be dragged into the lawsuit, technically your could be party to it.

Likewise she could also bring suit against you for harassment (she couldn't bring libel charges for obvious reasons). If you take it too far, it could also constitute a criminal offense if it was felt you posed a threat to her or if you continually harassed her, it could be considered obsessive behavior under the right circumstances.

Obessions like you have often lead to unintended consequences and it wise to keep that in mind.

Which might also drag your friends into this quagmire as they would be considered witnesses of some sort. I'm sure that is something they'd just LOVE. They want this behind them, let them put it and keep it there. TL is not going to get anywhere with them if they have indeed moved on.

 

[ima6uldv8]

I wish the OP would come back in here.

Yeah and it seems HH is gone, as well

 

[njlauren]

If the OP is still reading this, to get back to the original thread:

If you are seriously thinking of turning the page and so forth, I don't care why it is happening, choice or being forced, (obviously an epiphany without facing disaster would be a more noble thing if anything can be noble in a sordid mess like you have helped create [sorry, HH, the now husband still bears responsibility and making amends/repenting doesn't change that, any more than confessing to the local priest really absolves someone in God's eyes for what they have done in my view, if there is anything such as God]), but there are things you need to do, you have thrown yourself into the slimepit, there is no doubt, and in some ways you must be really messed up if HH is right and you were/still are trying to do the same thing......


-STOP TRYING TO CONTACT THE GUY!!!!! (sorry for the the yelling.....). For Christ's sake, if you are serious, let it go, you have to, that is like a recovering alcoholic living next to a liquor store or having a case of beer in the house.......

-If HH is serious about what he is doing, then one of your first steps is to take preliminary action, and do what I used to be accused of when I was a kid, hit back first...... start talking to those around you, let them know the situation, and let the chips fall where they may. As others have said, there are going to be those who dump you, and yeah, it fucking hurts, ask anyone who has had to admit things from their past, or come out as GLBT, and ask them, they will tell you. Thing is, if you tell them first (and yep, tell them someone is in the process of outing what you did), tell them basically what you told us on here. It may be easier to hide, but if HH is serious, you don't have much choice.

-If you haven't already done it, find a therapist, because quite honestly from the description HH and you yourself have given, something isn't right upstairs. It doesn't stop you from having to make amends, it doesn't stop you from facing the consequences of your actions, and while I deplore in many ways the way HH is doing this, in one sense he is doing the right thing, he is forcing you to face the consequences of your actions, something you apparently may have not been able to do (since we only have a he said/she said thing here, I have to put it into context.). If you are compelled to fuck around in other people's lives like this something is wrong, there are plenty of fish in the sea out there, and screwing with other people's lives is not only wrong, it indicates something is way twisted. I would suggest someone trained in issues of sexuality and perhaps even abuse, sometimes the kind of behavior you have done is due to that.

Nice part about a counselor/therapist? If they are any good, they may tell you the straight facts, but they won't be pat of the judgement chorus (if they are, find another person).

This isn't going to be solved overnight I suspect, intensive therapy can do a lot, but it still can take time. Sometimes group therapy can help along with individual stuff as well....

-STAY WAY,WAY away from the people involved *nuff said*

-Stay away from places where you are tempted, no Ashley Madison (if you ever used it), try to stay away from places like this (okay, other then maybe this thread), at least until you get your feet more on sure ground.

-If this affect your workplace, a lot of companies have programs for employees dealing with life issues, they have in effect a service where employees can talk confidentially to people at the service they offer, to deal with life stresses, job stresses and so forth. These are short term things, usually if it involves long term things they will give referrals, but they can give advice and be a big help. They are third party and are confidential, they don't report back to the employer (various acronyms for this or names, employee life program, Personel support program (PEP), various names) at all......check your benefits website.

Among other things, they may offer advice, like whether to talk to your boss or not up front to let him know there is something in your personal life that may affect work, so he is prepared....not sure if that is a good thing to do or not, they may have advice.

-If you haven't already done so, talk to a lawyer and find out what your legal rights are where you live, every state is different. In the area I live in, some of the things HH is planning on doing could be illegal, they could constitute civil or criminal harassment I suspect (I am not a lawyer, but have some training on issues like this dealing with the workplace). If he sends this to your boss or fellow employees and it causes problems in the workplace, for example, that could be an employment law issues because in effect, that is workplace harassment/allowing a harassing environment in some places. Put it this way, even in employment at will states and the like, the reality is that in the workplace the law as written and as practiced is often quite different; the law may say a company can let an employee go for no reason, but in reality there are laws on discrimination, on workplace environment, and more importantly, on what Juries or judges decide, that make employment at will dicey (kind of like when they have you sign something saying you won't sue X if you do Y and get hurt; like the disclaimer on the back of sports tickets, it is meaningless if they decide something is a fundamental right under the law, you cannot sign that away).

I would recommend a lawyer with experience in employment law and have a consult with them (there are online legal services that for a fee let you talk to them, I would look locally to be honest).

You have rights, HH might put you down lower then slugs in the garden, but whatever you did, you still have rights. You can't sue him for slander if the facts are true, but you may be able to find out if/where he steps over the line in interfering with your life and how to protect yourself, it is worth knowing what rights you have and how to protect yourself.

-If you have any close friends, people you really are close with them, tell them what is happening. Even if only 1 of them is there for you, that is going to be a plus, you don't need a lot of friends, just a few good ones, to get through the shit.

-GET HELP FOR YOURSELF..........whatever happens, even if you find a shark of a lawyer who can get HH to cease and desist or protect your job, even if you square this with people, that doesn't change what you did, you need to get to the point where what you did sinks home and you feel as repulsed as other people do, including myself. I am not going to call you a whore and a slut, first of all because I have no right to do so, I am not a saint in my life, but secondly that is too easy on you, that is basically "okay, someone put that label on me, I am a bad person, I deserve it" and then sit back and say "gee, I paid the price". Just too easy, like the religious types who see Jesus as a get out of jail free card for stuff they did, too easy. Taking the heat doesn't mean someone calling you a whore or accepting the label, taking the heat is looking around and getting that feeling in the pit of your stomach like someone made you eat White Castle pulled pork sandwiches or a bag of their slimy sliders, looking at yourself and feeling, not just saying, that I really fucked up and I don't like what I see, what I feel.......then you are taking the heat...not fear of loosing your job, not fear of what people think, but rather, looking at yourself and saying "I really am a screwed up bitch", that is it.

It is ironic, in some ways it is the opposite of what a GLBT person goes through when they come out, they have to get to the point where they are willing to risk losing jobs, having people think badly of them, be ditched by friends and family but be able to look inside themselves and feel 'I love myself", enough to be able to deal with the shitstorm of coming out, real or imagined.

-If you can get to that point, and again I think it is going to take help, if you can get to the point where the 'real you' comes out, the one that recognizes, not the consequences of the actions, but the underlying crap in doing them, if you don't like that, can feel the self disgust at that part, and are working on that, then, and only then, can you make amends, it has to come from a position of self awareness and clarity, rather then trying to defray consequences.

One of the best sermons I ever heard (when I actually had a church), compared to the process of repentance to scar tissue inside ourselves, that simply saying "mea culpa, I have done wrong" is not enough, that the process of repentance at first is clearing out the scar tissue so you can truly heal. In a wound, scar tissue is the way the body reacts to major wounds, and it can hinder you in recovering (for example, in being able to use joints that have been damaged). In your case, whatever it is that caused you to act like this left the scar tissue that stops you from seeing what it is, plus the additional 'scar tissue' of what you did is there; getting help is clearing out the scar tissue so you can recognize what you did, feel it (since the 'scar tissue' can stop you from feeling), and then start the real healing, so you also can sincerely make amends. If you tried to do it right now, to be honest, it would be false because it would come from the wrong place, from the mind, not from the place in the heart that right now you can't go to, and people would know that. When you start healing, how to make amends will become clear, it won't be a logical step of a, b, c, it will be 'this is what will help me to heal, to make my heart right', and that will come through as genuine if my experience with this holds.

I think what you did stinks, I think doing what you did is really low, in effect it is deliberately hurting 2 other people for your own fun, it causes damage that probably isn't even comprehensible to yourself at this point, but it does, and if you are continuing to do this, you do not deserve approbriation of sympathy. However, if there is a glimmer inside yourself, even a fragment of person sorry for the harm they caused (and not the damage it is bringing on yourself), I wanted to give you the chance to find a way out.

I wish you luck, on the slight chance that a decent human being will emerge from the wreck, scarred but ready to go on as a new person. I have to admit, I hold no illusions, many people, even when they hit bottom, seem to be able to find an even lower one, I hope you are one of the exceptions for your own sake and more importantly, for those around you.

 

[heavyhitter01]

I have to laugh because I, too, looked to see this fabulous cache google would turn up, and me oh my...the real Miss Intrigue is quite the endowed woman! so just where is the treasure trove of info?

It takes time, ladies. Google and other search engines don't cache overnight, you know, and this fun just got started.

 

[heavyhitter01]

Yeah and it seems HH is gone, as well

I went to work, sweetheart. That's something that adults tend to do, you know?

 

[Lord Pmann]

I went to work, sweetheart. That's something that adults tend to do, you know?

Most of us are programmers out of our parents' basements.

 

[ima6uldv8]

Most of us are programmers out of our parents' basements.

I'm not even a programmer. I do their laundry and clean the house. *Sigh* Maybe I'll get a job one day.