How OnlyFans, Fansly and other pay sites have ruined everything...

[ace195008]

I see it as money, money, money am I right or wrong ?

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

My post that you are responding to with this comment was geared to part of the ongoing discussion more so than the OP.

As you say the OP is more focussed on the economics of sex work and how they have been affected by OF. The issue many of us have identified is that he clearly recognizes that the women he desires do not want to be with him unless he pays them and they have no viable alternative to make similar amounts of money. By lamenting the existence of OF as an alternative and asking "what is to be done" he is in essence lamenting the fact that women have choice/alternatives and seeking to curtail those choices or otherwise encourage women to give him what he wants.

That isn't just a point about the economics of sex work. It is about how to control women by limiting their choices which has been part of the formula for female oppression for much of history.

Thanks for answering. I always find your thoughts to be worth reading.
His plea to organize a consumer boycott of OF does fit into that pattern.
But I still think his main obsevation is wrong. The market for what he wants is there. He just has to look. OF may contribute to driving up the price a bit, but he can get what he wants if he is willing to pay.

 

[policywank]

Thanks for answering. I always find your thoughts to be worth reading.
His plea to organize a consumer boycott of OF does fit into that pattern.
But I still think his main obsevation is wrong. The market for what he wants is there. He just has to look. OF may contribute to driving up the price a bit, but he can get what he wants if he is willing to pay.

Yes I agree. The market for what he wants is still there even if the price has gone up.

The women working may also be more particular regarding behaviour given that they have choice. It is not unusual that some men regard the sex trade as them renting another person's body with which they may do whether they choose. I don't think women in the sex trade see it that way. They are being hired to provide a service as they define it with the boundaries or limitations that they set. Those boundaries are more permissive perhaps than other services and they obviously know what men are after, but that doesn't mean no boundaries.

I see it as analogous to my experience as a stripper. It was full nudity and full contact. But that didn't mean anything goes or that a guy could treat me like shit.

It is a peculiar way of thinking. A woman gives you what you desire most (for a price), yet rather than be appreciative some guys see it as license to be a douche bag? But for some it is about the power more so than the sex. They like the fantasy of being in control and the more they can get away with the more controlling they feel. They see the financial trade as conveying the right to be disrespectful in a way that they don't with other service providers.

 

[Escierto]

It’s very interesting reading about the strip club experiences from the women’s perspective. A long time ago I used to go to strip clubs every now and again mostly because my coworkers enjoyed having me go with them.

I am not sure why but I was adept at getting the strippers to give us attention. I am sure money was a factor (after all that’s why they are working!) but sometimes the women just wanted to chat. I wasn’t terribly interested in sexual services but I did enjoy talking to them about their lives.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Yes I agree. The market for what he wants is still there even if the price has gone up.

There is at least one additional reason why the price for a "high-end" sex worker has gone up - the pandemic. From what I have seen, which may not be totally reliable, prices for prostitutes crashed at the beginning of the pandemic, at least here in the states, because men were afraid to have that kind of contact, and prostitutes were desperate for income. But more "elite" or "exclusive" workers, who had been able to set aside some resources were able to survive and eventually find ways to qualify for pandemic relief. Only Fans was a safer way for a sex worker to provide a service and a safer way for the customer as well. Now that people are having direct contact with one another again, there evidently is a segment of the sex worker population who have found a way to make a living using OF, which obviously is a much safer way of earning a living. I would be surprised if t has had a major impact on price of in person services. There are other factors driving up prices as well. I am sure that there is some segment of this workforce who are now just feeling unsafe at having in-person contact, regardless of the availablity of OF or other similar on-line services.

The women working may also be more particular regarding behaviour given that they have choice. It is not unusual that some men regard the sex trade as them renting another person's body with which they may do whether they choose. I don't think women in the sex trade see it that way. They are being hired to provide a service as they define it with the boundaries or limitations that they set. Those boundaries are more permissive perhaps than other services and they obviously know what men are after, but that doesn't mean no boundaries.

I believe that some women in the sex trade do accept the paradigm that performing sexual services for money is equivalent to selling their bodies. It seems inevitable that some women who go into this line of work either because they are forced to by someone else, or as out of economic distress and the lack of alternatives, would internalize the attitudes of the larger socieity (of the patriarchy, if you will), and the stigma that goes with the work. But women like the OP is interested in, women who have a choice, I agree would see themselves as service providers. And, from what you can see if you read their ads, they have figured out how to be very clear about boundaries, as well as setting prices based upon the services provided.

I see it as analogous to my experience as a stripper. It was full nudity and full contact. But that didn't mean anything goes or that a guy could treat me like shit.

It is a peculiar way of thinking. A woman gives you what you desire most (for a price), yet rather than be appreciative some guys see it as license to be a douche bag? But for some it is about the power more so than the sex. They like the fantasy of being in control and the more they can get away with the more controlling they feel. They see the financial trade as conveying the right to be disrespectful in a way that they don't with other service providers.

I did not see the OP in that light, but that may reflect a lack of sensitivity on my part. But I am aware of the dynamic and attitude that you describe. I suspect there are other factors that contribute to men treating sex workers this way, in addition to the power trip. There is the stigma under which the sex worker operates. Society sees her as inferior, and the customer internalizes that attitude. Also, many of the men are themselves conflicted about sex. They have a powerful drive, but at the same time, they have internalized to some extent the idea that it is wrong to act out.
And then, there are those who just look down on women or on service providers. Just ask any waitress.

 

[policywank]

There is at least one additional reason why the price for a "high-end" sex worker has gone up - the pandemic. From what I have seen, which may not be totally reliable, prices for prostitutes crashed at the beginning of the pandemic, at least here in the states, because men were afraid to have that kind of contact, and prostitutes were desperate for income. But more "elite" or "exclusive" workers, who had been able to set aside some resources were able to survive and eventually find ways to qualify for pandemic relief. Only Fans was a safer way for a sex worker to provide a service and a safer way for the customer as well. Now that people are having direct contact with one another again, there evidently is a segment of the sex worker population who have found a way to make a living using OF, which obviously is a much safer way of earning a living. I would be surprised if t has had a major impact on price of in person services. There are other factors driving up prices as well. I am sure that there is some segment of this workforce who are now just feeling unsafe at having in-person contact, regardless of the availablity of OF or other similar on-line services.

I believe that some women in the sex trade do accept the paradigm that performing sexual services for money is equivalent to selling their bodies. It seems inevitable that some women who go into this line of work either because they are forced to by someone else, or as out of economic distress and the lack of alternatives, would internalize the attitudes of the larger socieity (of the patriarchy, if you will), and the stigma that goes with the work. But women like the OP is interested in, women who have a choice, I agree would see themselves as service providers. And, from what you can see if you read their ads, they have figured out how to be very clear about boundaries, as well as setting prices based upon the services provided.

I did not see the OP in that light, but that may reflect a lack of sensitivity on my part. But I am aware of the dynamic and attitude that you describe. I suspect there are other factors that contribute to men treating sex workers this way, in addition to the power trip. There is the stigma under which the sex worker operates. Society sees her as inferior, and the customer internalizes that attitude. Also, many of the men are themselves conflicted about sex. They have a powerful drive, but at the same time, they have internalized to some extent the idea that it is wrong to act out.
And then, there are those who just look down on women or on service providers. Just ask any waitress.

Yes I expect that the pandemic has changed a great many aspects of sex work as it has with virtually every service industry. I'd be very curious to know how all of that has played out. A lot of other areas where technology made big changes because of the restrictions of the pandemic have reverted to pre-pandemic form. But in other areas people have adopted new ways of doing things that they strongly prefer - especially those that were in sub-optimal circumstances that the pandemic compelled them to address.

Plenty of women do accept the paradigm that they are selling their bodies for the client to do with as they please. I'd say that in most cases they don't want it to be that way, but they have been convinced that it is that way by definition or they are under duress. That is why any suggestion by men that their options as consumers of sexual services is being compromised by women having choices is so offensive. It amounts to an admission that men benefit from putting women under duress and lament any restrictions on their ability to do so. To the extent that OF or other avenues provide women with the power to make choices not under duress I view that as a huge positive.

I don't see the OP as necessarily the guy who as acting out a power trip. Nothing in his comment gives a clear sense of that direction. But if you strip it down he is lamenting the lost ability to compel women to do as he pleases that has resulted from them having viable alternatives while wondering what can be done about it - is that really so far from wanting to exercise control over them? And think about the other scenarios you describe such as being conflicted as between his own urges and regarding the sex trade provider as inferior or generally looking down on women. Do those scenarios not also feature the use of a power dynamic to get what one wants? Is it really so different if a man uses the power to compel her to do as he pleases versus if he uses the power dynamic to indulge his own hypocrisy about how his urges are acceptable, but she is inferior for indulging them.? Are those not simply different types of abuse of power?

I think that a lot of guys can understand the OP's point of view. But many overlook the fact that it is mainly about how someone else gaining their agency has been inconvenient for him. And in doing so they fall into the same line of thinking that diminishes sex workers. If a business owner said the implementation of laws that make it illegal to employ children in sweatshops sure is hard on the labour cost, he/she isn't wrong are they? But there is some pretty appalling lack of regard for other human beings that underlies a statement like that. It may sound more extreme if you have more sympathy for children than you do for sex workers. But either way it is about someone lamenting limitations on their ability exploit others.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Yes I expect that the pandemic has changed a great many aspects of sex work as it has with virtually every service industry. I'd be very curious to know how all of that has played out. A lot of other areas where technology made big changes because of the restrictions of the pandemic have reverted to pre-pandemic form. But in other areas people have adopted new ways of doing things that they strongly prefer - especially those that were in sub-optimal circumstances that the pandemic compelled them to address.

Plenty of women do accept the paradigm that they are selling their bodies for the client to do with as they please. I'd say that in most cases they don't want it to be that way, but they have been convinced that it is that way by definition or they are under duress. That is why any suggestion by men that their options as consumers of sexual services is being compromised by women having choices is so offensive. It amounts to an admission that men benefit from putting women under duress and lament any restrictions on their ability to do so. To the extent that OF or other avenues provide women with the power to make choices not under duress I view that as a huge positive.

I don't see the OP as necessarily the guy who as acting out a power trip. Nothing in his comment gives a clear sense of that direction. But if you strip it down he is lamenting the lost ability to compel women to do as he pleases that has resulted from them having viable alternatives while wondering what can be done about it - is that really so far from wanting to exercise control over them? And think about the other scenarios you describe such as being conflicted as between his own urges and regarding the sex trade provider as inferior or generally looking down on women. Do those scenarios not also feature the use of a power dynamic to get what one wants? Is it really so different if a man uses the power to compel her to do as he pleases versus if he uses the power dynamic to indulge his own hypocrisy about how his urges are acceptable, but she is inferior for indulging them.? Are those not simply different types of abuse of power?

I think that a lot of guys can understand the OP's point of view. But many overlook the fact that it is mainly about how someone else gaining their agency has been inconvenient for him. And in doing so they fall into the same line of thinking that diminishes sex workers. If a business owner said the implementation of laws that make it illegal to employ children in sweatshops sure is hard on my labour cost, he/she isn't wrong are they. But there is some pretty appalling lack of regard for other human beings that underlies a statement like that. It may sound more extreme if you have more sympathy for children than you do for sex workers. But either way it is about someone lamenting limitations on their ability exploit others.

Let me think about your points before I respond.
I am curious, however, if the OP is still involved in this thread and if he has any thoughts about the responses.

 

[policywank]

It’s very interesting reading about the strip club experiences from the women’s perspective. A long time ago I used to go to strip clubs every now and again mostly because my coworkers enjoyed having me go with them.

I am not sure why but I was adept at getting the strippers to give us attention. I am sure money was a factor (after all that’s why they are working!) but sometimes the women just wanted to chat. I wasn’t terribly interested in sexual services but I did enjoy talking to them about their lives.

Yes they are working for money of course. But there is often a pre-conception that it is more crassly commercial than other service jobs. I don't see it that way. I wasn't an ice queen indifferent to everything but the money. There were lots of times that I enjoyed the company of my clients and that was a meaningful factor in whether I would want to stay and chat with them independent of the money. Meanwhile some guys were dicks and thought that paying was license to be a dick - I avoided them and at times flat out refused a dance.

I think that like a lot of service jobs it helps to have an engaging personality. Sure we embellish a bit - that is what we are being paid to do. But if it is all fake and you just hate your job except for the money that comes across, people see it.

Likewise it is easier and more enjoyable to engage with the clients that are engaging so we gravitate to them. It isn't charity work but I wasn't scouting every guy for the thickness of his wallet either. And the girls who did usually got it wrong anyway.

 

[BettyHouston]

I tend to agree with the opinion that the pandemic influenced the way that a lot of things work nowadays, including sex work. Many women nowadays don't have to leave the house to make good money just selling their pics and videos. Does it eliminate traditional sex work? No, but it certainly does create another player in this market that can influence the distribution of finances. Society has become way more atomized than it used to be and that's why a lot of lonely and horny men prefer to enjoy the beauty of women like https://onlyfans.cоm/fairyysexxyy online and not have to deal with the real ones. It's safer, easier and the choice is way wider.

 

[Stewart_Pidd]

I had a room-mate once that went out to a strip club, and before you knew it, he was going every night. Because one of the girls kept stringing him along. I'm sure he is nearly broke with Onlyfans bro.

Stew

 

[policywank]

I tend to agree with the opinion that the pandemic influenced the way that a lot of things work nowadays, including sex work. Many women nowadays don't have to leave the house to make good money just selling their pics and videos. Does it eliminate traditional sex work?

I don't think it eliminates it but it probably does change it. In some ways it expands it as more women have opportunity to engage in it profitably and on their terms. I made really good money as a stripper, but it wasn't scaleable like OnlyFans.

 

[policywank]

I had a room-mate once that went out to a strip club, and before you knew it, he was going every night. Because one of the girls kept stringing him along. I'm sure he is nearly broke with Onlyfans bro.

Stew

That sucks. Of course there are lots of different businesses that exploit a weakness or sell something that isn't good for you. This should be one of the more obvious - seriously you have to be pretty naive to believe a stripper is into you but never sees you outside the club - but it is also one where guys are especially vulnerable.

 

[Plasmaball]

Women become empowered and start making the decisions that suit us. And that is a problem for some knuckleheads because men's ability to limit our options in order to force us in a different direction has eroded. So your response is to find some way to band together and re-impose oppression on us? It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic. Not even an attempt to paper over thus misogyny with some flimsy argument - just straight up "women aren't falling into line so we have to find a way to force them to do what I want."

It is kind of like saying we finally let the black people join pro sports leagues and they are kicking our asses. What do we do about it? Get better or lose. But you aren't getting that toothpaste back in the tube so you better adapt.

It's not the empowered part, it's the gimmick and get rich quick type thing that bothers me.
Like everyone is doing it to the point it becomes boring.
Like I'm all for women empowering themselves and such but when that's your go to answer for your ills?

Eh it's less empowerment than it could be.

 

[Leglover1234]

As far as I can tell, Lit is the only place you don’t have to pay to even chat with women. Women now expect men to pay just to chat.

 

[policywank]

It's not the empowered part, it's the gimmick and get rich quick type thing that bothers me.
Like everyone is doing it to the point it becomes boring.
Like I'm all for women empowering themselves and such but when that's your go to answer for your ills?

Eh it's less empowerment than it could be.

If women are doing it as an answer to their ills I agree that isn't empowering (maybe more like enslaving). But I see no reason to believe that is a prevalent factor. There will always be anecdotal examples and strongly held opinions of things gone wrong. But to the extent that some women succeed and feel empowered by it and others don't do so well, how is that different from any other opportunity that people pursue?

The world is full of things that promise quick riches or instant success. It is up to each of us to make grown-up decisions. If someone is making patently false claims or fundamentally misrepresenting the service they offer that is a different matter. There are laws in most countries to curb that behaviour. And there is democracy in the world of people sharing their experiences so that anyone willing to look can actually assess the veracity of claims.

OnlyFans is just a platform on which people can offer a product and a service in a way that would be much more difficult for people to develop on their own. Whether what they're offering is likely to find an audience and be financially successful while facing a competitive and evolving environment is governed by the same factors that affect other businesses. In that sense it is much like Amazon or Shopify - they offer a scaleable efficient platform for people to bring their product or service to market where the merits of that product or service will succeed or fail on its own merits.

If Amazon or Shopify tout the merits of their platform and how it helps retailers and entrepreneurs succeed we call that marketing. We all know that they aren't saying success is guaranteed. And we all know that there are lots of people with business models that aren't particularly well developed or products or services that are not particularly in demand who will fail. We also know that if everyone starts doing it the uniqueness may fade, the product will become boring and it will fall out of favour. So what? That is market forces at work. Do we blame that on Amazon or Shopify and think "what do we do about it" if all we are seeing is market forces do their thing?

Empowerment is what I feel and experience and is unaffected by what others think. If a woman makes good income and realizes economic freedom her empowerment is that experience regardless of what other people think about it. Might it fade or not work out or have negative ramifications for other parts of her life? Yes, absolutely. But it is her choice to make.

To the extent that anyone argues "hey this is not a great choice" that to me is like saying "this is not a great business model" - great good discussion please tell me why. But if someone who knows nothing about me says "this isn't an answer to your ills" that is like telling someone who is starting a small business "this isn't the answer to your ills". My response is what do you know about my ills or why I am doing this. Democracy and capitalism is built on people making individual decisions that may not pan out. Why assume that the motivations to go the OnlyFans route have less merit? More importantly what is the case for denying anyone that choice or denigrating their choice in a free and open society?

 

[policywank]

As far as I can tell, Lit is the only place you don’t have to pay to even chat with women. Women now expect men to pay just to chat.

I think that there are lots of other sites that cater to men and women connecting. But at the end of the day we are all free to make our own choices. If you don't want to pay then don't pay. If women want to not talk to you as a result that is their choice. The premise of this thread started on the idea that something must be done because OnlyFans has empowered women to make the choices that suit them and don't suit men. That is bullshit. Freedom doesn't include taking away women's choices because men don't like the way that we exercise our freedom to choose.

 

[Plasmaball]

If women are doing it as an answer to their ills I agree that isn't empowering (maybe more like enslaving). But I see no reason to believe that is a prevalent factor. There will always be anecdotal examples and strongly held opinions of things gone wrong. But to the extent that some women succeed and feel empowered by it and others don't do so well, how is that different from any other opportunity that people pursue?

Um. It's the main factor these days. They have networks and companies that promote these girls to men now who get a cut.
They are no different than being a pimp.

The world is full of things that promise quick riches or instant success. It is up to each of us to make grown-up decisions. If someone is making patently false claims or fundamentally misrepresenting the service they offer that is a different matter. There are laws in most countries to curb that behaviour. And there is democracy in the world of people sharing their experiences so that anyone willing to look can actually assess the veracity of claims.

Not arguing this

OnlyFans is just a platform on which people can offer a product and a service in a way that would be much more difficult for people to develop on their own. Whether what they're offering is likely to find an audience and be financially successful while facing a competitive and evolving environment is governed by the same factors that affect other businesses. In that sense it is much like Amazon or Shopify - they offer a scaleable efficient platform for people to bring their product or service to market where the merits of that product or service will succeed or fail on its own merits.

Not arguing this

If Amazon or Shopify tout the merits of their platform and how it helps retailers and entrepreneurs succeed we call that marketing. We all know that they aren't saying success is guaranteed. And we all know that there are lots of people with business models that aren't particularly well developed or products or services that are not particularly in demand who will fail. We also know that if everyone starts doing it the uniqueness may fade, the product will become boring and it will fall out of favour. So what? That is market forces at work. Do we blame that on Amazon or Shopify and think "what do we do about it" if all we are seeing is market forces do their thing?

We don't have to do anything about it.

Empowerment is what I feel and experience and is unaffected by what others think. If a woman makes good income and realizes economic freedom her empowerment is that experience regardless of what other people think about it. Might it fade or not work out or have negative ramifications for other parts of her life? Yes, absolutely. But it is her choice to make.

Empowerment is the am pic board to me. Because people enjoy it. Mind you yes some of these girls enjoy the onlyfans but a lot use it to just make money so they don't have to do anything. ( some do use it for further education and such) but overall it's become corporated.. or mainstream.

To the extent that anyone argues "hey this is not a great choice" that to me is like saying "this is not a great business model" - great good discussion please tell me why. But if someone who knows nothing about me says "this isn't an answer to your ills" that is like telling someone who is starting a small business "this isn't the answer to your ills". My response is what do you know about my ills or why I am doing this. Democracy and capitalism is built on people making individual decisions that may not pan out. Why assume that the motivations to go the OnlyFans route have less merit? More importantly what is the case for denying anyone that choice or denigrating their choice in a free and open society?

Yeah I don't care about this stuff. I'm not interested in stopping people from doing these things. I just find it annoying that everyone and their mother has one.

Like calm down sally...

 

[SlutAddicted]

Um. It's the main factor these days. They have networks and companies that promote these girls to men now who get a cut.
They are no different than being a pimp.



Not arguing this


Not arguing this


We don't have to do anything about it.


Empowerment is the am pic board to me. Because people enjoy it. Mind you yes some of these girls enjoy the onlyfans but a lot use it to just make money so they don't have to do anything. ( some do use it for further education and such) but overall it's become corporated.. or mainstream.

Yeah I don't care about this stuff. I'm not interested in stopping people from doing these things. I just find it annoying that everyone and their mother has one.

Like calm down sally...

Why do you care if everyone and their mother has one?

It is not at all like having a pimp. A pimp essentially employs and controls a prostitute (through violence or the threat of it). A woman on OnlyFans gets to decide what she posts and she owns her content. She is in effect self employed. The platform gets a cut the same as any other platform that provides a valuable service and facilitates someone else's business. There is nothing nefarious or pimp like about that. It's called commerce.

The whole "so they don't have to do anything" premise is judgmental nonsense. How is it any different than a spokesmodel who earns a lot of money for looking pretty and saying a few lines? It isn't unless one is passing judgment on the sexual aspect of it. Maybe some use it to coast and they will pay for it in the long run, but there is no basis to conclude that this attitude is prevalent. That is just an impression people who want to pass judgment have created.

 

[SlutAddicted]

If women are doing it as an answer to their ills I agree that isn't empowering (maybe more like enslaving). But I see no reason to believe that is a prevalent factor. There will always be anecdotal examples and strongly held opinions of things gone wrong. But to the extent that some women succeed and feel empowered by it and others don't do so well, how is that different from any other opportunity that people pursue?

The world is full of things that promise quick riches or instant success. It is up to each of us to make grown-up decisions. If someone is making patently false claims or fundamentally misrepresenting the service they offer that is a different matter. There are laws in most countries to curb that behaviour. And there is democracy in the world of people sharing their experiences so that anyone willing to look can actually assess the veracity of claims.

OnlyFans is just a platform on which people can offer a product and a service in a way that would be much more difficult for people to develop on their own. Whether what they're offering is likely to find an audience and be financially successful while facing a competitive and evolving environment is governed by the same factors that affect other businesses. In that sense it is much like Amazon or Shopify - they offer a scaleable efficient platform for people to bring their product or service to market where the merits of that product or service will succeed or fail on its own merits.

If Amazon or Shopify tout the merits of their platform and how it helps retailers and entrepreneurs succeed we call that marketing. We all know that they aren't saying success is guaranteed. And we all know that there are lots of people with business models that aren't particularly well developed or products or services that are not particularly in demand who will fail. We also know that if everyone starts doing it the uniqueness may fade, the product will become boring and it will fall out of favour. So what? That is market forces at work. Do we blame that on Amazon or Shopify and think "what do we do about it" if all we are seeing is market forces do their thing?

Empowerment is what I feel and experience and is unaffected by what others think. If a woman makes good income and realizes economic freedom her empowerment is that experience regardless of what other people think about it. Might it fade or not work out or have negative ramifications for other parts of her life? Yes, absolutely. But it is her choice to make.

To the extent that anyone argues "hey this is not a great choice" that to me is like saying "this is not a great business model" - great good discussion please tell me why. But if someone who knows nothing about me says "this isn't an answer to your ills" that is like telling someone who is starting a small business "this isn't the answer to your ills". My response is what do you know about my ills or why I am doing this. Democracy and capitalism is built on people making individual decisions that may not pan out. Why assume that the motivations to go the OnlyFans route have less merit? More importantly what is the case for denying anyone that choice or denigrating their choice in a free and open society?

It seems like the empowerment aspect of it would vary quite a bit. For a woman who wouldn't otherwise be engaged in the sex trade in any way, whether or not she is empowered will be a function of her success with it, the impact it has on other aspects of her life and how she feels about sharing intimate images of herself. It could be very empowering. But it isn't difficult to imagine scenarios where it is not.

But for a woman already in the sex trade it would seem to be more self-evidently empowering. Most such women used to be effectively employees who didn't own the business or their own content and were obliged to work in conditions of their employers choosing. With OnlyFans they are more or less self-employed, set their own terms, decide what they will/won't do and own their own content. That seems massively favourable relative to the alternative. In fact, I can't help but notice that men don't really seem to have a problem with women engaging in sex work, they just don't like it when women can set their own terms and not be controlled.

I also wonder about this whole premise that it is sex work. Clearly some women are posting images that are sexually explicit, but where is that line. Some post much tamer images that amount to something closer to modelling.

 

[policywank]

Why do you care if everyone and their mother has one?

It is not at all like having a pimp. A pimp essentially employs and controls a prostitute (through violence or the threat of it). A woman on OnlyFans gets to decide what she posts and she owns her content. She is in effect self employed. The platform gets a cut the same as any other platform that provides a valuable service and facilitates someone else's business. There is nothing nefarious or pimp like about that. It's called commerce.

The whole "so they don't have to do anything" premise is judgmental nonsense. How is it any different than a spokesmodel who earns a lot of money for looking pretty and saying a few lines? It isn't unless one is passing judgment on the sexual aspect of it. Maybe some use it to coast and they will pay for it in the long run, but there is no basis to conclude that this attitude is prevalent. That is just an impression people who want to pass judgment have created.

It seems like the empowerment aspect of it would vary quite a bit. For a woman who wouldn't otherwise be engaged in the sex trade in any way, whether or not she is empowered will be a function of her success with it, the impact it has on other aspects of her life and how she feels about sharing intimate images of herself. It could be very empowering. But it isn't difficult to imagine scenarios where it is not.

But for a woman already in the sex trade it would seem to be more self-evidently empowering. Most such women used to be effectively employees who didn't own the business or their own content and were obliged to work in conditions of their employers choosing. With OnlyFans they are more or less self-employed, set their own terms, decide what they will/won't do and own their own content. That seems massively favourable relative to the alternative. In fact, I can't help but notice that men don't really seem to have a problem with women engaging in sex work, they just don't like it when women can set their own terms and not be controlled.

I also wonder about this whole premise that it is sex work. Clearly some women are posting images that are sexually explicit, but where is that line. Some post much tamer images that amount to something closer to modelling.

If you read through a lot of these comments there is a significant strain of men just not liking the fact of women setting their own terms and/or being able to make a lot of money showing their bodies. It gets dressed up as criticism of what they are doing, but a closer look reveals that it is often the change in the control dynamic that bothers guys.

Historically some in the sex trade were victimized or at least controlled by men. The attitude was sort of "sure go ahead and spread your legs for money, but don't ever forget your place and accept the hypocrisy of men who want to pay for that service on their terms and judge you negatively at the same time." The fact that we would have the temerity to set our own terms and get away with it is what bothers a lot of men.

 

[Chernosoth]

I don't see the appeal of subscribing to just one channel on a site and then paying more for content on that channel. A flat fee for the entire site and all content on it would be an OK deal.

 

[Plasmaball]

Why do you care if everyone and their mother has one?

Thats not what im saying. Im saying its become so mainstream and boring.

It is not at all like having a pimp. A pimp essentially employs and controls a prostitute (through violence or the threat of it). A woman on OnlyFans gets to decide what she posts and she owns her content. She is in effect self employed. The platform gets a cut the same as any other platform that provides a valuable service and facilitates someone else's business. There is nothing nefarious or pimp like about that. It's called commerce.

Actually it is. A lot of these girls sign up with companies that take a cut. I've already typed this out. I'm not again.

The whole "so they don't have to do anything" premise is judgmental nonsense. How is it any different than a spokesmodel who earns a lot of money for looking pretty and saying a few lines? It isn't unless one is passing judgment on the sexual aspect of it. Maybe some use it to coast and they will pay for it in the long run, but there is no basis to conclude that this attitude is prevalent. That is just an impression people who want to pass judgment have created.

Yeah it's all fairly stupid. That's cool. I'll pass all the judgement I want but they are free to do what they want. That's life. If you do something I don't like I'm going to think that, but I'm not gonna get in the way of you doing that.

I'm a fair person and to me that's a fair outcome.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Thats not what im saying. Im saying its become so mainstream and boring.

Actually it is. A lot of these girls sign up with companies that take a cut. I've already typed this out. I'm not again.



Yeah it's all fairly stupid. That's cool. I'll pass all the judgement I want but they are free to do what they want. That's life. If you do something I don't like I'm going to think that, but I'm not gonna get in the way of you doing that.

I'm a fair person and to me that's a fair outcome.

Obviously you didn't read the point. Taking a cut does not make them like a pimp - repeating the same flawed premise won't make the point valid. Taking a share of revenue or profits is a legitimate form of compensation for services rendered in many business arrangements. It is a form of risk and reward sharing that is a legitimate alternative to a fixed fee for service.

 

[silver gurl]

Definition of pimp:

: a person who is associated with, usually exerts control over, and lives off the earnings of one or more prostitutes and/or sex industry

 

[wallstreetguy]

The percentage of Only Fans girls who are making a living at it, or more, is pretty small.

If you want to hire an escort, they’re still out there.

I read an article in a business blog recently about how only the top 1/2 of one percent are huge money makers. They far surpass the rest and the average woman makes $150/month.
Many also pay promoters on social media to get them more customers so not all the money they receive ends up in their hands.
I have met several sex workers on this site. They all tell me that no one knows their secret life and no one would. But if they went online, it is there forever.
I am not a fan of either option (sex work, online or in person), but any person who does this has to understand they will never be erased.
The article even mentioned how some online boards share "deleted" OF content (women who quit) to keep them alive, so to speak.
There are horrible people out there.