For Incest authors...all.

[Hypoxia]

That closeness is a double-edged sword too, because it means explaining 'how the protagonists get away with it' has an added difficulty level many times greater than a normal romance. In most erotic writing, having compelling and muanced characters is enough to carry an otherwise-bland story, but with Incest that's less true. Now you need to keep the risk high, constantly, and in close proximity while constantly creating new ways for the characters to get around it.

How to get away with it.

* Copout: Somehow family started fucking and they just keep at it.
* Normalcy: They live quietly as family and don't announce the sex.
* They pretend to be married. Hey, they share a last name already!

How to not get away with it.

* They're caught, kicked from the family, and move away to privacy.
* They fuck only briefly and spend the rest of their days washed in guilt.
* They're caught, imprisoned, and spend years exchanging love letters.

Keeping the risk at whatever level you (author) want is no problem. Visualize your outcome and write the tale to reach that point. Follow Billy Wilder's rule for 3rd acts: build build build the intensity, then stop. Throw in snoopy family-friends-neighbors, creaky floorboards, power outages, Scooby-Doo chases, mysterious messages, whatever it takes.

 

[KeithD]

Varian P set it up effectively a decade ago as a family being shipwrecked, in "Lost."

https://www.literotica.com/s/lost-42

 

[NotWise]

Incest, as a very taboo kink, hinges on 'getting away with it'. There needs to be risk involved. The tension is not derived from being related so much as the generalized intimacy of family. 'Yes, my brother and I are close and that has lead to complications, but I'm also close with Mom and Dad and they'll know something is wrong if I suddenly pull away.' Families are, more often than not, close-knit.

A lot of my I/T stories get a lot of the tension from normal plot mechanisms rather than depending on the taboo aspect of the relationship.

So in "A Valentine's Day Mess" there was a some tension from a budding sibling relationship and the sensitivity of Abuelita, but most of it came from the gangsters who want to kill Claudia.

In "Her Bodyguard," neither of the siblings were comfortable with their relationship, but more tension derived from the demands of his job and their conflict with her ex-husband.

In "Stinky and Fudd" (I know, the name sucks) a lot of the tension comes from his mistaken engagement and her insistence on saving him from it.

With maybe one exception I don't think I've written any I/T stories that depended entirely on the taboo nature of the relationship.

 

[Hypoxia]

A lot of my I/T stories get a lot of the tension from normal plot mechanisms rather than depending on the taboo aspect of the relationship.
<...>
With maybe one exception I don't think I've written any I/T stories that depended entirely on the taboo nature of the relationship.

I can't think of any of mine that depend on taboo. Kin find reason to fuck, is all. They don't advertise it, and may take steps to disguise it, but they're not guilt-ridden. (*) Thus these tales are total fantasies. Maybe I should branch out, hey? Throw in some angst and apprehension. But they'll keep on fucking anyway.
-----
(*) I do have some guilty incest but it works in reverse. A competitive athlete feels guilty for having neglected her son and daughter when they were young and so atones now by submitting as their sex slave. Right.

 

[MagnusRhodes]

Start a discussion about realism and you will lose the vast majority of Lit membership, it seems to me, both readers and 'authors'. What seems to count as 'erotic' for them is a simple description of fucking. No need for convincing detail or plausible plot development.

It would be nice to think that a fairly specific theme like incest would give rise to some engrossing, imaginative stories which draw you in... but no, all that happens is that 'Susan' and 'Steve' get changed to 'daughter' and 'dad'...

The fact that you feel this way is exactly why this thread exists. There are very good authors commenting and trying to explain and learn how to make stories better and more believable. Yah, there is a glut of 'authors' in I/T but you can't lump all into one.

You belittle our writing by saying readers only want descriptions of fucking. We put entirely too much work into our stories for that to be their sole purpose. And this thread is a chance for readers to explain what makes it more real for them...which is understandably subjective. Maybe try saying how stories fail your realism test and help the few better entertain the many rather than dismissing the genre.

 

[MagnusRhodes]

Thanks for responding, this was more than I expected.

Sure.

Incest, as a very taboo kink, hinges on 'getting away with it'. There needs to be risk involved. The tension is not derived from being related so much as the generalized intimacy of family. 'Yes, my brother and I are close and that has lead to complications, but I'm also close with Mom and Dad and they'll know something is wrong if I suddenly pull away.' Families are, more often than not, close-knit.

I'm going to argue semantics for a second (please forgive me). Incest is a legal definition, very much objective, and taboo is subjective. Incest is taboo, but so are things like interracial sex, intersex relationships, interfaith marriages, etc...all depending on the context/culture/country you or the story reside within. The need to keep things hidden is true in all of these cases and I absolutely agree secrecy is an important part of keeping it real. But this is not a specific problem to I/T and I wish readers would appreciate that. Understand I'm not disagreeing, just expanding on what you're saying. I find it fascinating how people judge and weigh different taboos.

That closeness is a double-edged sword too, because it means explaining 'how the protagonists get away with it' has an added difficulty level many times greater than a normal romance. In most erotic writing, having compelling and muanced characters is enough to carry an otherwise-bland story, but with Incest that's less true. Now you need to keep the risk high, constantly, and in close proximity while constantly creating new ways for the characters to get around it.

Well put. I agree there's an added burden placed on I/T stories to construct a story that's realistic. Which is ridiculous, since none of them are. The kink is unobtainable, which is probably why it is one to begin with. Why do we try, then? Why do we write nuanced characters and put them in risky situations and struggle to justify every single plot twist? I don't have an answer, other than it's a challenge and a fetish and something few people manage to achieve.

EDIT: Incestuous potential love interests are some of the least acceptable and difficult-to-attain love interests. Within the context of the story, no one is rooting for them. They won't have help. They have to hide their feelings, and the only other person they can talk to about it is each other. Risk requires consequences and, in incest, consequences require the threat of discovery.

If you can pull off all of those elements AND write sex that is hot on its own AND make characters with depth, that's a winning recipe.

I'm going to disagree for a second that nobody's rooting for our characters. I mean, in general, if you were to publish to the masses, sure. But that's not what we're doing here. It is harder to write a character that allows him/herself to be that way, but none of them hide from the reader. They're hiding from the reality of the story you're writing which makes it all that much more challenging to construct. Which I understand as what you mean, I just wanted to put it another way...to explain the difficulties of writing a character that doesn't fit.

I've tried not to get super wrapped up in justification and emotional fallout. I do appreciate how you and other authors tackle those topics, and I want to fold more of that into my writing. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

 

[nickydra]

The fact that you feel this way is exactly why this thread exists. There are very good authors commenting and trying to explain and learn how to make stories better and more believable. Yah, there is a glut of 'authors' in I/T but you can't lump all into one.

You belittle our writing by saying readers only want descriptions of fucking. We put entirely too much work into our stories for that to be their sole purpose. And this thread is a chance for readers to explain what makes it more real for them...which is understandably subjective. Maybe try saying how stories fail your realism test and help the few better entertain the many rather than dismissing the genre.

My highlights.

Sorry but it's true. We all know why the preponderance of people come onto the site.

I'm not intending to 'belittle' any particular writer - but the sad fact is that if you throw ten darts at the Literotica archives you get maybe one story with any originality or realism. Maybe one. Don't even get me started about quality of English or other desirable features.

My comment was about the stories as a whole, so out of respect to the OP whose thread is specifically about incest, I'll say nothing further, except to give an example of what I mean:

'I was sitting in our back yard when my neighbour came out. She's really hot and was wearing tight-fitting jeans...'

vs.

'I was sitting in our back yard when my mother came out. She's really hot and was wearing tight-fitting jeans...'

That's the generality of what you get. Care to guess which one is supposed to rate as your standard Literotica incest diamond..?

 

[8letters]

As a secret writer (for my own amusement) I find it difficult to picture a sexual liaison starting between family members along anything like 'classical lines' - let's face it, we're not really talking about boy-meets-girl, right? No dates, no candle-lit dinners, no holiday flings.

My take on it then for the purpose of genuine story writing (as opposed to the pathetic porn word pictures which have been mentioned) is that we're left EITHER with some kind of spontaneously arising situation which throws characters together OR pre-meditation, i.e. planning on the part of someone.

I would guess that non-con comes into this latter category quite commonly.

Can anyone suggest any other way in which the build up to incest could occur? I'm not looking for a specific story idea as such, but for a more general 'principle'. The other day on a different website someone suggest to me the 'estranged' family concept, e.g. absentee parents and their children could meet unwittingly and likewise separated siblings. I believe this has been known to happen in real life and there is this a well-known phenomenon called genetic sexual attraction.

Anything else..? And specifically where family members are definitely not estranged..??

I'd be grateful for any thoughts, possibly by PM.

A lot of I/T stories hinge on the power of a big dick. The mom/aunt/sister sees that the son/nephew/brother is hung like a horse and has to fuck him. These tend to be strokers with minimal character development.

Another big class of I/T stories are that there's already a strong attraction between the mom/aunt/sister and the son/nephew/brother, and it takes only a small thing to push them over the line. These can also be strokers with minimal character development, or can be longer stories with quite a bit of character development. There can be a lot of guilt over being attracted to someone the person knows they shouldn't be attracted to, or not much at all.

A third class of stories is where one family member is obsessed with another family member and sets out to seduce them. The very popular "Words on Skin" falls into this class. The other family member is reluctant to get involved with a family member, but the pursuer steadily overcomes that reluctance.

Most of my stories involve two family members (typically brother and sister) being isolated for various reasons, and then fall for each other during that isolation. My stories tend to run long.

 

[NotWise]

Sorry but it's true. We all know why the preponderance of people come onto the site.

While it might be true, it's overstated. A lot of readers want a story to go with the fucking, and will give high ratings for good stories.

From an ealier post:

My take on it then for the purpose of genuine story writing (as opposed to the pathetic porn word pictures which have been mentioned) is that we're left EITHER with some kind of spontaneously arising situation which throws characters together OR pre-meditation, i.e. planning on the part of someone.

To which you added genetic similarity attraction.

An incestuous relationship can begin before the story -- especially if one of the characters is under eighteen when it started. We don't have to concoct circumstances to create the relationship. In "A Christmas Tart" the only rationale I gave for the relationship was "You were such a desperate boy."

The relationship can arise as an unintended consequence of other events. In "Stinky and Fudd" the sister tried to make her brother realize that his fiancée was not who he thought she was. When she succeeded, it looked like he would pick up on another girl, and she got jealous.

Someone else brought up isolation. I used social isolation as the relationship starter in "Her Bodyguard." In that story I definitely did use the taboo aspect of incest to build tension. That story is actually a romance with siblings as the main characters.

In my other incest stories (five chapters in all) one story used genetic similarity, and the other might qualify as premeditated -- it did have a non-con element.

 

[nickydra]

While it might be true, it's overstated. A lot of readers want a story to go with the fucking, and will give high ratings for good stories.

I just go by the evidence of what I read. I personally make no claim to be able to see inside minds...

 

[KeithD]

I just go by the evidence of what I read. I personally make no claim to be able to see inside minds...

Agree that the assertion is unknowable. What can be said is that most of those who comment on this on the discussion board have said they want the story with the sex, but not many comment on this on the discussion board and it's not as likely that those reading just for the sex are following and contributing to the discussion board discussions as those wanting more elements in the story. So, I agree it's not a knowable statistic from available information.

 

[nickydra]

I'll defend anyone's right to hold a view. It helps to be able to back it up with some kind of evidence, though!

All I can see is that the general standard of the 'stories' is dire (yes, I know, subjective). They're scarcely worth reading. That hasn't stopped me from appreciating the very occasional pearl despite the effort of opening a shed load of oysters...

 

[KeithD]

Your oyster shell is someone else's pearl. In order to getting pearls on a site like this without being hassled, you let others of different interests get their pearls without hassling them.

 

[NotWise]

I'll defend anyone's right to hold a view. It helps to be able to back it up with some kind of evidence, though!

My evidence is from my experience as a Lit author. It is, of course, inductive reasoning and maybe only applicable to my stories.

I track the voting on my stories in as much detail as I can. I wake up in the morning about six hours after stories publish. The first score I see is often the lowest score I see. Input from beta readers and rare comments on the stories suggest that the early, low-voting readers are the one-handed readers. They skim a story for the juicy bits and if it feeds their buzz they like it. If it kills their buzz they hate it. My stories aren't constructed to feed their buzz.

Scores typically rise after the one-handed readers have their say; commenters make observations about the story, and thank me for publishing. I know that some readers look for more than fucking because they tell me so, and their numbers are large enough that their votes usually overwhelm the early, one-handed readers.

 

[KeithD]

I don't think most one-handers bother to "say" anything at all, one way or the other. I think they scan/read and just move on. The vote/comment ratio to views seems to be evidence of that. And I'm pretty sure that Lit. relies on the one-hander audience to ensure its success and that they deserve not to be hassled.

 

[TabooSappho]

I've never published a story here, but I've always kind of sympathized with the authors. I really like long stories, with a lot of character development, but I realize that many people want short stroke stories. So authors have to adapt and give audience what they want. There's no reason for them not to do that.

Back to the original theme. I agree with nickydra here:

'I was sitting in our back yard when my neighbour came out. She's really hot and was wearing tight-fitting jeans...'

vs.

'I was sitting in our back yard when my mother came out. She's really hot and was wearing tight-fitting jeans...'

Enormous number of incest stories are exactly like this. It's just another sex story where they hit 'find and replace' and change 'Susan' to 'mom'.

This has helped me remember couple of things:

1. When I find a new incest story I kind of automatically jump to the bottom of the first page. If I find words like 'pussy' 'fuck' 'great ass' etc. I skip the story. If you managed to get your character checking out his mom in only one page (or god forbid already fucking her), I don't want to read it.

2. Somebody talked about how incest couples have to hide and how nobody is rooting for them. I agree and I think this should be the main part of the narrative. But, for me, the point isn't in hiding from everybody else. The point is that they should hide from themselves. Incest is such turn on because characters know that they shouldn't feel that way. They are ashamed, but that just makes it hotter for them. So they keep falling and they can't stop. And every new step they take is bigger than previous one and it's hotter than anything they've felt before.

3. This is completely subjective, but I think the best way to write incest is either through first person narration or through third person subjective limited narration. For me, the best stories are those where you follow the thoughts of character, but you don't know (because character don't know) what the other person is feeling.

 

[NotWise]

This has helped me remember couple of things:

1. When I find a new incest story I kind of automatically jump to the bottom of the first page. If I find words like 'pussy' 'fuck' 'great ass' etc. I skip the story. If you managed to get your character checking out his mom in only one page (or god forbid already fucking her), I don't want to read it.

This made me go back and check my early, short, mother-son story "His Father's Lover". At the end of the first page they were about to do it. "Pussy," "fuck," "great ass," etc did not appear, but the action is pretty much what you want to avoid. Maybe you should read Romance.

2. Somebody talked about how incest couples have to hide and how nobody is rooting for them. I agree and I think this should be the main part of the narrative. But, for me, the point isn't in hiding from everybody else. The point is that they should hide from themselves. Incest is such turn on because characters know that they shouldn't feel that way. They are ashamed, but that just makes it hotter for them. So they keep falling and they can't stop. And every new step they take is bigger than previous one and it's hotter than anything they've felt before.

That was AwkwardMD.

It seems to me that if your expectations are so well-formulated, then you should be writing the story, not waiting for someone else to write exactly what you want.

3. This is completely subjective, but I think the best way to write incest is either through first person narration or through third person subjective limited narration. For me, the best stories are those where you follow the thoughts of character, but you don't know (because character don't know) what the other person is feeling.

See? Go for it. You've already constructed layers of tension. You know the voice. Now just come up with the rest of the story and do it yourself. Readers will worship you. Or not -- you know how that goes. Or maybe you don't.

 

[AwkwardMD]

The only time story ever comes alive is through characters. (*)

Actual incest is nearly-universally reviled. The risks are so dangerous.

Any character that is human should be aware of and deeply troubled by this stigma, and by their willingness to continue with their actions despite it. To do otherwise is to write something other than human.

The further you get from writing something human, or relatable, the harder it is for a reader to suspend disblief, or put themselves in those shoes.

Suspension of disbelief is not necessary, but it helps.

* IIRC, I am paraphrasing Aaron Sorkin there.

 

[KeithD]

The only time story ever comes alive is through characters. (*)

Wrong. Lots of thrillers live adrenaline lives on plot with cookie-cutter characters. Like most "always" and "only" declarations about literature, this one sucks and is something writers spout to get attention and amateurs repeat not knowing any better. This is something I'd expect JBJ to post.

 

[NotWise]

The only time story ever comes alive is through characters.

They do, and characters vary in their situations and beliefs.

Actual incest is nearly-universally reviled. The risks are so dangerous.

The Zuni people have characters named "Mudheads" who appear in their ceremonial dances. They're there to remind people of the consequences of incest. The Mudheads are stupid, and also funny.

Any character that is human should be aware of and deeply troubled by this stigma, and by their willingness to continue with their actions despite it. To do otherwise is to write something other than human.

Or maybe they should know about sex without long term consequences. You know, condoms and all those things that are used by so many people to control their reproductive freedom.

The further you get from writing something human, or relatable, the harder it is for a reader to suspend disbelief, or put themselves in those shoes.

This is true, but you seem to have adopted a limited concept of what is human and relatable.

EDIT: You can use our cultural abhorrence of incest to build tension in your stories; it's a free pass. I use it, but I also use other device to build tension in my I/T stories.

 

[HeyAll]

My own two cents is that you should avoid looking for "general principles." The possibilities for incest, as for any other subject of fiction, are limited only by imagination.

I think a more fruitful approach is to look at how other authors actually do it, as opposed to looking for general principles. Two very popular authors who mine this terrain successfully are Lovecraft and Heyall. They are two of the most popular authors on this site, for good reason. Both write many incest stories. Lovecraft specializes in longer stories with more extensive buildup and solid character development. Heyall is the master of the 2- to 3-page story that brings mom and son together quickly, usually through a daft and contrived but still clever and entertaining conceit. They represent different approaches to the same subject, but both have a good feel for storytelling. I think my incest stories fall somewhere between their two approaches, although I'm not nearly as prolific and don't have as many followers.

So, my advice is, if you want an answer to your question, don't ask, but read instead. You'll find the answer to your question more effectively that way.

Thanks for the nice words.

A reader of mine, years ago, described that sort of contrived set-up as "Necessity" and I've used that ever since.

I think the first time I effectively used that Necessity set-up was Quarantined with Mom, in which a mom/son drank a fruit drink on an exotic island and became super horny, while the ship was quarantined at the same time.

I thought the story would flop, but it became a huge hit. So I wrote more and those types of stories are popular. They're also really fun to write.

Me personally, I base my style of incest writing on this story.

"With Mom's Help"

https://www.literotica.com/s/with-moms-help

That taught me everything about characters, build up, reasoning, while also getting straight to the point... while also balancing the conflicting feelings.

And that story is only 2 pages and it hits all the boxes.

 

[MagnusRhodes]

My highlights.

Sorry but it's true. We all know why the preponderance of people come onto the site.

I'm not intending to 'belittle' any particular writer - but the sad fact is that if you throw ten darts at the Literotica archives you get maybe one story with any originality or realism. Maybe one. Don't even get me started about quality of English or other desirable features.

My comment was about the stories as a whole, so out of respect to the OP whose thread is specifically about incest, I'll say nothing further, except to give an example of what I mean:

'I was sitting in our back yard when my neighbour came out. She's really hot and was wearing tight-fitting jeans...'

vs.

'I was sitting in our back yard when my mother came out. She's really hot and was wearing tight-fitting jeans...'

That's the generality of what you get. Care to guess which one is supposed to rate as your standard Literotica incest diamond..?

You're not wrong, you're just picking the wrong fight. I don't disagree with your accuracy. Pick one in ten out of any free offerings and you might find something you like. Congrats for having a hard time finding your kink. We're not here to serve you or justify plots you find similar. If you have a complaint, say something meaningful that might help the authors you read write something you like.

 

[nickydra]

You're not wrong, you're just picking the wrong fight. I don't disagree with your accuracy. Pick one in ten out of any free offerings and you might find something you like. Congrats for having a hard time finding your kink. We're not here to serve you or justify plots you find similar. If you have a complaint, say something meaningful that might help the authors you read write something you like.

Ah, so I'm 'picking fights' and this is because I'm having difficulty 'finding my kink'.

Wow, this place is positively overflowing with telepathic maestros. I stand corrected. Thank you. I would not have wanted to continue in my misguided belief that I was making a fairly humdrum, uncontroversial comment based on observable evidence.

Once again I apologise to the OP and hope that my hugely unmeaningful contributions have not caused too much havoc.

 

[TabooSappho]

This made me go back and check my early, short, mother-son story "His Father's Lover". At the end of the first page they were about to do it. "Pussy," "fuck," "great ass," etc did not appear, but the action is pretty much what you want to avoid. Maybe you should read Romance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that ALL stories should be long. It's just that I don't read Literotica often, I do it only when I have time. So then, I want a good, long story. If I want something quick, I watch porn. And romance isn't perverse enough for me

It seems to me that if your expectations are so well-formulated, then you should be writing the story, not waiting for someone else to write exactly what you want.

I always wanted to write incest story. But I actually write for living and write other stuff at home, so I never find energy to do it. I'm not waiting for someone to write exactly what I want. I'm just glad when they do

 

[Hypoxia]

Again, I don't read incest; writing the stuff is a puzzle for me. And I suffer from a reality or plausibility fetish. How do I create a hot comi-drama of breaking the ultimate taboo without IRL rape and consequences? How to write a workable setup where kin fuck willingly? What plot triggers will you and I believe? How to avoid cartoon stereotypes, parody excepted?

I definitely want to avoid gritty reality. I want readers to react with, "Yeah, that could have happened!" Seeing kin in the shower isn't enough. Except in parody.