A request for specific feedback regarding an ear for the spoken word.

[AG31]

A week or two ago I re-read my first three stories. I was pretty happy with the first, but had problems with the other two. One had problems with the rhythm of the sentences. I understood the problem, but couldn't get off first base to address it. The thread was enormously helpful in giving me ideas for how to go about it.

The other one presents me with a different sort of problem. That is, I'm not sure whether or not it demonstrates a tone deaf ear for the spoken word.

That's a very important feature of writing for me, and if I detect a poor ear in the first three pages I'll close the book and move on. But I find I can't tell when it's my own writing. The story in question is the only one I've written that focuses on plot and character. There's lots of talk in it (a lot of monologue as well as dialogue). I was uncomfortable writing it. I wasn't used to dealing with the question, "OK, what happens next?" I never felt that good sense of accomplishment when I finished a speaking section.

So I have two questions for anyone who's willing to dive in here.

The first is this. Do the passages of dialogue and monologue demonstrate a passable ear for the spoken word or not?

The second is this. Where they do not, can you offer any concrete suggestions for improvement?

The context is that a lieutenant is the last officer in a group of prisoners of war. He's being kept naked and tormented sexually in front of his men. Because he's male, everyone can see that he's come to enjoy it. The threat is that athe captors will kill one of his men if he does not get aroused. The story is about how he manages this situation with his men. If you want to read the whole story, it's Naked.

Here are a few excerpts.

Excerpt 1
(The main character is on hands and knees waiting for one of his men to sodomize him.)

"Hey, Loot," came a voice behind him. It was Miller. What did they want with Miller? "Loot, they... they... I can't do it Loot! What am I going to do?"

Ah! "OK, Miller, just think about those guys over there."

"It's Gemi, Loot. They've already cut him!"

"OK. Then we've got to pull this off. Just pull down your pants and masturbate yourself a hard-on. You can do it. Everyone can do it!"

Miller let out a long moan of distress. A few anxious moments later he said, "OK. I got it."

"Now stick it in me!" He felt Miller kneel behind him and put his hands on his waist, but nothing at his anus. He felt Miller's erection lie between his buttocks and then he felt it wither.

"Loot! It's gone! It's just gone!"

"OK. We'll fake it. Keep your legs together and lean down on my back and just fake it. For Gemi!"

* * *

Excerpt 2

Then, "OK, guys, pull up some dirt, have a seat and listen up. I think these people want three things. He lifted his forefinger. They want entertainment. They're gonna get it and there's nothing we can do about it. He lifted his middle finger. They want to leave you leaderless. They want to destroy all respect you have for my authority. Well, I'm not resigning. Three," he lifted his ring finger. "They want to destroy your morale. One way, of course, is to put you all in fear for your lives. Will you be picked next? Beaubain and Miller and DeAngelo were legitimately terrified."

He paused and gently bit his lip, to take a moment to process some emotion. It was sadness. He was sad at the loss of his nearly seamless public persona. He suppressed a sigh and continued.

"It would be crazy to tell you to relax, but I think I can say that I'll rise to the task of protecting you." His wry smile was met, not by chuckles, but with sympathetic looks and smiles.

"I may be over thinking on these last two things, but that's my guess. But, whether that's their plan or not, we're not going to let that happen. You'll have had a lot of different reactions to what happened out there today." He tilted his head toward the amphitheater. "That's OK. The way not to lose morale, not to fall apart, is for all of us to accept our feelings. Did I expect to get a hard-on from having a dildo shoved up my ass? No. I did not. But there's nothing to be gained by running from what you're feeling. If I want to deal with it later, when we get out, fine. But I'm not giving these guys the benefit of making me upset or guilty or demoralized. And I want you to do the same.

"I know you have a whole host of feelings. Some were aroused and are now feeling guilty. Some were aroused and are not feeling guilty." He smiled in acknowledgement of the two openly gay men in the group. "Some of you were nauseated. Whatever you're feeling, it's OK, because, you know what? We're human! We accept our feelings. And we take charge of our actions. We thank you nauseated ones for taking charge and not throwing up in our home." Scattered smiles. "If you need to jerk off, just wait for dark and go for it. But while we're here we don't get involved in personal attachments, or angry acting out. Accept our feelings. Control our behavior. OK? Repeat after me, 'We're human!'" Almost all did. "Work on it.

"We need to keep busy, and one thing is we'll do a half hour of calisthenics twice a day, once after breakfast and once after the 'entertainment hour.' It's a good way to release nervous tension. Barbo, you'll be in charge of calisthenics. If you decide on jumping jacks, I'm going to invoke executive privilege and do something else, like sit ups. There's just so many assaults on my dignity I can handle," he chuckled.

McSpadden spoke up. "Hey, Loot, while you were out there a bunch of us thought it might be a good idea if we stripped down too, sort of for solidarity, you know? But the guards out there," he motioned in the direction where a few guards were gathered out of site, "they put a stop to it."

Henderson smiled. "Sounds like a brilliant idea to me. Too bad you couldn't implement it."

* * * *

Excerpt 3
(Same situation the next day, but a different person.)
Then he heard Kretschmer's voice. "Hey, Loot. It's me. I can’t believer they picked me. You know this isn't something I wanted, right?" Kretschmer was one of their two openly gay men. Henderson felt some sense of relief. At least it wouldn't be a replay of yesterday. He wouldn't have to manage Kretschmer while trying to abase himself before the enemy officer.

"Not to worry, Krteschmer. Do what you have to do. It's for those three guys."

"It looks like Kintebe is their pick today. They've already cut him. Oh, God, Loot, this just isn't right!" he said as he spat on his fingers several times and moistened Henderson's anus and rectum. He slowly worked his way in. "Oh, God, Loot. No part of me is enjoying this except my prick."

"Kretschmer, if you don't stop apologizing I won't keep this hard-on. Kintebe needs us to put on a show." What Henderson really wanted to say was Don't distract me from this experience! Kretschmer shut up and Henderson shifted his focus to the officer's boots.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Okay, I took a read through your story with an eye toward your two questions. (As an aside, thanks for requesting it on a short story, not a novella - that was appreciated.)

Let me provide my feedback on your two specific questions:

The first is this. Do the passages of dialogue and monologue demonstrate a passable ear for the spoken word or not?

Passable, yes. Could it be better? Yes.

The second is this. Where they do not, can you offer any concrete suggestions for improvement?

Writing dialogue, whether conversation or monologue, is tricky. Fortunately, I know a good trick to review and improve dialogue.

Take your draft story and paste it into a new document. Then, sweep through the story and cut out and delete anything that is not dialogue or monologue. Focus down entirely on the conversational elements.

Then, read through the dialogue and monologue and ask yourself this question: "Can I tell who is talking just by reading the dialogue?"

You'll want to give each speaking character a distinct style in conversation, whether that's through word choice or rhythm or both is up to you. But, at the end of the exercise you should be able to read through just the dialogue and be able to tell who is speaking.

Then, when you're writing your next tale, create a little cheat sheet for each character with notes about "how this character talks". Do they speak in short declarative sentences? Do they use simple words or complex words? Simple sentences or complex sentences? Regional accents or vocabulary? Occupational accents or vocabulary?

Imagine that you're writing a play. Try writing the story in two phases - all the dialogue, then all the not dialogue, and then weave the two together, sentence by sentence.

(This is not part of your solicited feedback, but just my feedback from having read the story. You embed dialogue in paragraphs of exposition. Don't do that. Unless the character is expositing on something, separate the two. It's easier on the reader and will make it easier on you to catch typos and malformed sentences.)

Good luck, let me know if the dialogue trick works for you, and keep writing!

 

[AG31]

Okay, I took a read through your story with an eye toward your two questions. (As an aside, thanks for requesting it on a short story, not a novella - that was appreciated.)

Let me provide my feedback on your two specific questions:

The first is this. Do the passages of dialogue and monologue demonstrate a passable ear for the spoken word or not?

Passable, yes. Could it be better? Yes.

The second is this. Where they do not, can you offer any concrete suggestions for improvement?

Writing dialogue, whether conversation or monologue, is tricky. Fortunately, I know a good trick to review and improve dialogue.

Take your draft story and paste it into a new document. Then, sweep through the story and cut out and delete anything that is not dialogue or monologue. Focus down entirely on the conversational elements.

That's excellent advice. Except that in my story almost all of the problematic spoken words are uttered by one person...

 

[AlexBailey]

Hi AG31,

I’m not one of the more experienced writers here but I’ve been working on my skills and I’d like to offer what I can. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. I encourage others to chime in and I sincerely hope they do if anything I say comes across as off base.

( I read the full posted story to get some better insight to the situation these characters are in.)

First off, it’s not a plot I would usually be into but I found some compelling ideas in there and I got pulled in.

I didn’t get a very strong sense of who your intended audience is, yes it’s BDSM but I didn’t get a feel that you were taking agency and telling it from any particular angle. It doesn’t seem aimed at gay males, maybe more for the closeted curious? It’s potentially a very emotional piece but I felt the story telling was a little removed from the characters.

In excerpt one I think you could get grittier by leaning into the characters’ body language, and by having them try to focus on the guys they’re trying to protect.

You could also capitalize more on their rank - it’s a very common theme in BDSM.



—————
Excerpt one (rewrite)

"Hey, Loot," the quivering voice came from behind him.

It was Miller. What did they want with Miller?

"Loot, they want me to.. oh god... I can't do it… I can’t get hard! What the fuck am I going to do?"

“Miller, calm down. Just think about those guys over there." Henderson nodded toward the three captives on their knees with knives at their throats.

"It’s Gemi, Loot. They’ve already cut him.He’s bleeding and I don’t know if he’s gonna…”

“Buck it up, private! We've got to pull this off. Just pull down your pants and get yourself a hard . You can do it, just use your imagination. You got a girl back home? You want to see her again, don’t you?

Miller groaned, pulled down his pants and closed his eyes, After few moments of jacking and a long moan of distress he said, "Okay,…okay, I got it."

"Now stick it in me!"

The lieutenant felt Miller kneel behind him, nervous hands on his hips but nothing at his anus. Miller laid his erection between his buttocks but Henderson immediately felt it shrink and wither.

"Loot! It's gone! It's just gone!"

"It’s okay, Miller, we'll just fake it. Keep your legs together and lean on my back, come on! Do it for Gemi!"

—————


To me it needs to get more personal, these guys are completely out of their element and struggling with it. Those guys on their knees with the knives at their throats are their brothers and if these two straight guys can’t get it on someone is going to die!

The dialogue should carry from line to line, they aren’t just saying words, they’re desperate to connect and somehow make it work. Each time someone says something the response should almost write itself.

In a desperate situation it’s the dire circumstances that burn into your mind - the details that you’ll remember after it’s all over. When they touch each other they know how the other feels, it’s not just a hand on his hip, it’s a trembling nervous touch…

Later when the gay private is dong Loot he isn’t happy about it. He’s disgusted with himself for doing this to his straight lieutenant.

I think it would work better if the monologue wasn’t such a monologue, sure he’s the ranking officer but he’s trying to bolster these guys while he’s completely naked and depending on them. They would have more emotional responses - some would be visibly ashamed while others would be more supportive of their lieutenant with generous words and agreement as he spoke, probably helping him use the games and distractions to escape in any way they can.

While Loot is talking the men would either be looking away or staring straight into his eyes- that’s how awkward nakedness usually works, eyes that settled on his naked body would probably have pity or fear, terrified that they might be next while still drawing courage from Henderson - their lieutenant’s determination, captors’ plans backfiring as the men grow closer to Loot.

That’s my 2 cents.

 

[ElectricBlue]

@AG31 I'm not necessarily the best person to comment, since I'm damned if I know how I write my own dialogue (other than hearing it In my head as my characters speak it), but I think the issue here is that it is mostly a monologue. Like Hamlet, Henderson has his soliloquy, and the action pauses while he delivers it.

It's also tough to place a period on the story. I'm half picturing Audie Murphy in some 1950s WW2 movie, but then there are elements in the dialogue that make it seem later than that. I get that it's not meant to be "placed in time" as such, but I think that contributes to the stage play feel of the piece.

Having said that, the story immediately invoked in my mind Stanley Kubrick's first feature movie, Fear and Desire, which, if you know my love of Kubrick, is high commendation. I've never seen the film, but have read a very detailed scene by scene synopsis. The wiki link above provides an idea of the plot.

 

[AG31]

Thanks so much for taking the time with this!

I didn’t get a very strong sense of who your intended audience is,

You and me both... Well, not exactly. I describe my audience to myself as "like minded people." I record fantasies that worked for me and over the last three years (see afterword to Twelve Maxbridge Street) I've been on a hunt to figure out what this niche is. It's not GM because the MCs are not desirous of men, only of being-done-to by people. The sex of the tormenter doesn't matter. It's not femdom (there are females in some of my other stories) because a personal relationship just gets in the way. Self acceptance on the part of the MC is important, too. So I'm on the hunt for my audience, but so far haven't found very many people. Although I am happy to have heard from people who think I write well.

It’s potentially a very emotional piece but I felt the story telling was a little removed from the characters.

Well stated. As I mentioned in the OP, it is not my usual thing. I don't think of myself as an author, but, rather, as a recorder of fantasies resulting in "simple erotica" (what some folks call "strokers"), so I was a bit out of my depth on that front as well as the "ear for spoken language" issue that prompted this post.

In excerpt one I think you could get grittier by leaning into the characters’ body language, and by having them try to focus on the guys they’re trying to protect.

You could also capitalize more on their rank - it’s a very common theme in BDSM.

Some of these suggestions are excellent. "Quivering," for starters. It will take discipline on my part not to just steal them! Well, I get the idea. I'm going to just skip Excerpt 1 rewrite so I don't by accident platiarize. Excellent suggestions.

To me it needs to get more personal, these guys are completely out of their element and struggling with it. Those guys on their knees with the knives at their throats are their brothers and if these two straight guys can’t get it on someone is going to die!

Part of my habit is not to distract from the eroticism of the story by focussing on other characters. But that's not so appropriate with this story. I'll have to mull this over. What's probably going to happen is that I'll mostly say to myself, well, I'm not an "author," so I'll just leave this be as a less than adequate stab at plot/character. As I said in the beginning, that was not my intention when I started the story. It just grew.

You, however, sound like you're talented at plot and character. I'm going to read a couple of your stories, just for the writing, as CD is kind of puzzling to me, but I do enjoy the felicitous articulation of almost anything.

Later when the gay private is dong Loot he isn’t happy about it. He’s disgusted with himself for doing this to his straight lieutenant.

I think it would work better if the monologue wasn’t such a monologue, sure he’s the ranking officer but he’s trying to bolster these guys while he’s completely naked and depending on them.

Yeah, I've wished I could break it up, but haven't come up with a plan.

While Loot is talking the men would either be looking away or staring straight into his eyes- that’s how awkward nakedness usually works, eyes that settled on his naked body would probably have pity or fear, terrified that they might be next while still drawing courage from Henderson - their lieutenant’s determination, captors’ plans backfiring as the men grow closer to Loot.

Will think more about this. It sounds fruitful.

That’s my 2 cents.

Thanks so much!!!

 

[AG31]

It's also tough to place a period on the story. I'm half picturing Audie Murphy in some 1950s WW2 movie, but then there are elements in the dialogue that make it seem later than that. I get that it's not meant to be "placed in time" as such, but I think that contributes to the stage play feel of the piece.

Fascinating! I'm not sure how to put it to use, but I'm certainly going to reflect on it.

Having said that, the story immediately invoked in my mind Stanley Kubrick's first feature movie, Fear and Desire,

Never heard of it. I'm definitely going to seek it out. Minimally click on the link.

which, if you know my love of Kubrick, is high commendation.

Well, gee... Thanks!!!!

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Not really helpful, but... the situation you describe is very peculiar. POWs, being "tormented sexually in front of [...] men", and so on. It'd be very difficult to judge what normal speech should be under such circumstances. I can't begin to picture myself in such a scene (and don't want to), because I've never been in anything remotely close.

 

[Toffer_Guy]

A helpful tip on writing dialog. Say the words outloud. A lot of the times what looks fine written down doesn’t sound right when spoken.

Try to avoid over explaining in dialog that become run-on sentences.

Consider a character’s POV and personality. Does it sound right for how they feel or see the situation.

Don’t concern yourself with perfect grammar. Very few people speak in perfect grammar. Not unless the character is from a background that is uptight and formal. Listen to live TV news and hear how many “Um” and “like” gets used. Quentin Jerome Tarantino is really good with dialog.