Authors- how do you deal with objectification?

[Cagivagurl]

I agree with the concept of socially responsible erotica too. It’s why I always try to portray characters as realistic people and not just walking talking cliches of some kind. It only becomes a problem when readers prefer a cliche and say, rate a Loving Wives story low because there’s no cheating or cuckoldry involved.

I think it's more likely to work the other way.
If it has even a hint of cheating (By a woman) Or cuclodry.
It will be 1 bombed by the noisy moral right wing minority that live there and think the category belongs to them.

Cagivagurl

 

[AchtungNight]

I think it's more likely to work the other way.
If it has even a hint of cheating (By a woman) Or cuclodry.
It will be 1 bombed by the noisy moral right wing minority that live there and think the category belongs to them.

Cagivagurl

I think I drew ire from both category purists and the minority you mention by focusing on permitted extra marital fun. Ugh, whatever!

 

[AG31]

I do worry though. Not everything I think, or write should be seen in public...

This is one reason I value sites dedicated to erotica. I hear what you're saying, and of course people who might be influenced visit these sites, but it's not as if we're normalizing behaviors that we wouldn't want to see in real life. Keeping it in "erotica-land" sort of sets it aside.

Why?
Because what we read isn't only read by sane people who can rationalise.
They see fantasies, and think it's real...
For those that live on the outer edges of society, it (MAY) Remember, this is only my opinion... May lead them to act out in real life something I wrote....
That is what scares me.
If I wrote a non con story, and read in a newspaper months later that it was my story that triggered a person to actually attempt it...
I would find that hard to live with.
For the average person, they can separate fact from fiction.
Others don't have that ability...

Yes, that's an unsolvable problem. I come down on the side of thinking people aren't going to be turned into something they're not by reading stories. But I hear you.

It is, just my thoughts about the negative side of what we do.
I'm not targeting individuals, or kinks.
I believe, that we have to be honest with ourselves. (Me anyway)
I love writing, I'm addicted to it.
Understanding there is a negative element to what I'm producing, won't stop me. It just makes me wonder....

Cagivagurl

 

[ElectricBlue]

All my perk points are in archery and speechcraft.

And cold weather. Nothing beats a girl in cold weather.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

And cold weather. Nothing beats a girl in cold weather.

Summer.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Summer.

No weather induced perky points, in summer

@onehitwanda is English, she'll know what I mean.

 

[enbiji]

I write what I feel. I don't choose the words, they choose me.

 

[onehitwanda]

And cold weather. Nothing beats a girl in cold weather.

nothing beats a girl.

 

[StillStunned]

Isn't that why Americans always have the A/C on near-freezing temperatures?

(Seriously, what's that about? I was in Miami with the wife once, and realised I'd been freezing all day. I was glad to get back to the hotel where I could turn the A/C off and luxuriate in the heat.)

 

[tenyari]

My work is almost always featuring a female protagonist who is in a situation that has forced her to live nude in public, and often in a hyper sexual way.

In the real world that's a nightmare scenario for most people. There are a select few rare individuals who would relish and thrive in such a scenario. I make sure my protagonist, by some freak chance of having an author writing her; happens to be just such a person. Even if she thinks she isn't until put into the situation.

But I might also point out that she's different for that fact.

What I will NEVER do is write a story about an unwilling protagonist who is put through torturous experiences that constantly leave her in shock, fear, etc.

I have my protagonist take charge of their situation and thrive in it, get empowered by it.

There is obvious objectification in what I'm writing. I think that's going to be true in most 'kink'. I don't think recognizing that we're sexual beings is a bad thing. Making is disempowering is.

I'm sure my stories would freak out people who don't share the kink of eroticism in public nudity. But at least for the people who DO have that kink - I want to give them female characters that are strong within the eroticism. And yes; I am writing in a genre where many of the other writers constantly torment and demean their female protagonists. Though in the sub-genre that I write in, I'm not alone.


Though I am NOT lesbian; I got my start with this stuff as a lesbian family member of mine was a published erotica writer in the decades before the Internet - when that kind of stuff was in newsletters and special bookstores men were not welcome in. And some of the work I was exposed to as a result was extremely kinky and very graphic. Until I encountered Alt.Sex.Stories on old Usenet I always believed erotica was mostly written by and for women - including the straight stuff. Much of what I encountered back in the day would make my own work seem tame.

Everyone objectifies and 'gazes' at others. The real issue is whether or not your concept of others begins there, ends there, or just includes that as a part of a larger experience.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It makes sense simply because the area is never dry.

Yep, and not just with water but saliva, which has some enzymes that start digesting food before it even reaches the stomach. I'd guess they're not too kind to tattoo inks either.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Isn't that why Americans always have the A/C on near-freezing temperatures?

(Seriously, what's that about? I was in Miami with the wife once, and realised I'd been freezing all day. I was glad to get back to the hotel where I could turn the A/C off and luxuriate in the heat.)

Not me. I hate a/c.

 

[AG31]

Everyone objectifies and 'gazes' at others. The real issue is whether or not your concept of others begins there, ends there, or just includes that as a part of a larger experience.

Precisely.

 

[AG31]

If I wrote a non con story, and read in a newspaper months later that it was my story that triggered a person to actually attempt it...

I couldn't get this out of my mind. It's not a problem I experienced personally, but when you stated it that way, it wouldn't go away. Until this popped into my mind. If everyone were stopped from writing we'd have no thrillers. We'd have no peek into the consciousness of the bad guys in all sorts of stories. Stories deal with good and evil. Do they ever inspire people to do thinks they would not otherwise do? I don't know, but it's a risk society has been willing to take since the days of the Greek tragedians.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I couldn't get this out of my mind. It's not a problem I experienced personally, but when you stated it that way, it wouldn't go away. Until this popped into my mind. If everyone were stopped from writing we'd have no thrillers. We'd have no peek into the consciousness of the bad guys in all sorts of stories. Stories deal with good and evil. Do they ever inspire people to do thinks they would not otherwise do? I don't know, but it's a risk society has been willing to take since the days of the Greek tragedians.

Everything in life is a risk...
What I was trying unsuccessfully to articulate is. When somebody writes something, and it is published in some way. Even if it's an obscure publication The author could influence a person. It might be positive. Or the flip side is. It could be negative....
Depending on the theme of the text.
What concerns me is.
We (Anybody writing and posting in Lit) could write a story, with an emphasis on non con. We attempt to eroticise what we write. If in doing so we make it sound fun and exciting. We run the risk of normalising the activities we describe.
That is just my opinion. It happens in movies, TV shows, books all the time. I don't agree with those either.
By portraying violent crime as normal. We are subconsciously promoting it as a acceptable normal behavior.
I realise, I am as guilty as anybody, and I am not pointing the finger. It is after all, just my opinion..

Cagivagurl.

 

[AG31]

Everything in life is a risk...
What I was trying unsuccessfully to articulate is. When somebody writes something, and it is published in some way. Even if it's an obscure publication The author could influence a person. It might be positive. Or the flip side is. It could be negative....
Depending on the theme of the text.
What concerns me is.
We (Anybody writing and posting in Lit) could write a story, with an emphasis on non con. We attempt to eroticise what we write. If in doing so we make it sound fun and exciting. We run the risk of normalising the activities we describe.
That is just my opinion. It happens in movies, TV shows, books all the time. I don't agree with those either.
By portraying violent crime as normal. We are subconsciously promoting it as a acceptable normal behavior.
I realise, I am as guilty as anybody, and I am not pointing the finger. It is after all, just my opinion..

Cagivagurl.

Yes. I understood your position. All I'm saying is that authors take that risk all over the spectrum and since the time of the Greeks. So I'm going to stop worrying about it. You too???

 

[EmilyMiller]

Everything in life is a risk...
What I was trying unsuccessfully to articulate is. When somebody writes something, and it is published in some way. Even if it's an obscure publication The author could influence a person. It might be positive. Or the flip side is. It could be negative....
Depending on the theme of the text.
What concerns me is.
We (Anybody writing and posting in Lit) could write a story, with an emphasis on non con. We attempt to eroticise what we write. If in doing so we make it sound fun and exciting. We run the risk of normalising the activities we describe.
That is just my opinion. It happens in movies, TV shows, books all the time. I don't agree with those either.
By portraying violent crime as normal. We are subconsciously promoting it as a acceptable normal behavior.
I realise, I am as guilty as anybody, and I am not pointing the finger. It is after all, just my opinion..

Cagivagurl.

What she said

 

[EmilyMiller]

Isn't that why Americans always have the A/C on near-freezing temperatures?

It gets hot here, hun. Not just for three days in July .

Em

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It gets hot here, hun. Not just for three days in July .

Em

I love the Great British Bake Off episodes where they talk about how hot it is in the tent and it's messing up something. Google it and find out it was 82 degrees that day... oooohhh heat wave! How will you survive!

 

[madelinemasoch]

By portraying violent crime as normal. We are subconsciously promoting it as a acceptable normal behavior.
I realise, I am as guilty as anybody, and I am not pointing the finger. It is after all, just my opinion..

Forgive me for any perceived haughtiness on my part but I can only see this working in reverse...

The portrayal of violent crime being perceived as normal (not violent crime being portrayed as normal, as I don't think that happens nearly as often, because the appeal of such a subject is precisely its abnormality, its quality as a limit experience) means that reality is being reflected through the work. It reflects the extent that that behavior is already normalized in reality. We don't normalize through art, we just reflect what already exists around us, even in our perceptions of said art.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Forgive me for any perceived haughtiness on my part but I can only see this working in reverse...

The portrayal of violent crime being perceived as normal (not violent crime being portrayed as normal, as I don't think that happens nearly as often, because the appeal of such a subject is precisely its abnormality, its quality as a limit experience) means that reality is being reflected through the work. It reflects the extent that that behavior is already normalized in reality. We don't normalize through art, we just reflect what already exists around us, even in our perceptions of said art.

I beg to differ....
What is written as erotica, often crosses boundaries. I'm not talking about romance stories, with some titilating sex thrown in that moves it from the romance genre, into erotica. It's fun, it's sexy and is enjoyed by many....
All good so far.
Where it gets trickier for me is when we walk a little further down the road of erotic literature. Where we start to unlock doors and move into areas that are shall we say. Kinky...
My concerns are the violent non con stories, where we portray people who have been forced to under take a sexual experience, not because they chose it. Where it was forced upon them. Where vilolence and physical...
A good writer, depicts the story as something very erotic and sexual. It gets twisted into a romance. The brutality twisted like in a hollywood movie.
For most people, we understand it is art...
For those people who live within our society who cannot differentiate art from reality. See's it as a road map to their dark fantasy's. It pushes them over the little hurdle that has up until that moment been a step too far.
Now, after reading a story in which the unacceptable acts appear normal. That triggers them into actually doing it...
Somebody's life could be changed forever. Their life destroyed, never able to live a normal life.
The thing that triggered the persons slide into undertaking the crime, was reading that story.
Maybe I wrote it.... That scares me, that I could be the match that starts that fire.
So yes, it scares me, and when you read some interviews with killers, murderers, rapists abusers. They were unable to separate life from fantasy. It may have been movies, literature, porn, anything that depicts a horriful crime as something acceptable....
This is my opinion. I am not blaming or shaming anybody. A question was asked, and I am offering nothing but how I see it.

Cagivagurl

 

[EmilyMiller]

I beg to differ....
What is written as erotica, often crosses boundaries. I'm not talking about romance stories, with some titilating sex thrown in that moves it from the romance genre, into erotica. It's fun, it's sexy and is enjoyed by many....
All good so far.
Where it gets trickier for me is when we walk a little further down the road of erotic literature. Where we start to unlock doors and move into areas that are shall we say. Kinky...
My concerns are the violent non con stories, where we portray people who have been forced to under take a sexual experience, not because they chose it. Where it was forced upon them. Where vilolence and physical...
A good writer, depicts the story as something very erotic and sexual. It gets twisted into a romance. The brutality twisted like in a hollywood movie.
For most people, we understand it is art...
For those people who live within our society who cannot differentiate art from reality. See's it as a road map to their dark fantasy's. It pushes them over the little hurdle that has up until that moment been a step too far.
Now, after reading a story in which the unacceptable acts appear normal. That triggers them into actually doing it...
Somebody's life could be changed forever. Their life destroyed, never able to live a normal life.
The thing that triggered the persons slide into undertaking the crime, was reading that story.
Maybe I wrote it.... That scares me, that I could be the match that starts that fire.
So yes, it scares me, and when you read some interviews with killers, murderers, rapists abusers. They were unable to separate life from fantasy. It may have been movies, literature, porn, anything that depicts a horriful crime as something acceptable....
This is my opinion. I am not blaming or shaming anybody. A question was asked, and I am offering nothing but how I see it.

Cagivagurl

Again, what she said

 

[madelinemasoch]

I beg to differ....
What is written as erotica, often crosses boundaries. I'm not talking about romance stories, with some titilating sex thrown in that moves it from the romance genre, into erotica. It's fun, it's sexy and is enjoyed by many....
All good so far.
Where it gets trickier for me is when we walk a little further down the road of erotic literature. Where we start to unlock doors and move into areas that are shall we say. Kinky...
My concerns are the violent non con stories, where we portray people who have been forced to under take a sexual experience, not because they chose it. Where it was forced upon them. Where vilolence and physical...
A good writer, depicts the story as something very erotic and sexual. It gets twisted into a romance. The brutality twisted like in a hollywood movie.
For most people, we understand it is art...
For those people who live within our society who cannot differentiate art from reality. See's it as a road map to their dark fantasy's. It pushes them over the little hurdle that has up until that moment been a step too far.
Now, after reading a story in which the unacceptable acts appear normal. That triggers them into actually doing it...
Somebody's life could be changed forever. Their life destroyed, never able to live a normal life.
The thing that triggered the persons slide into undertaking the crime, was reading that story.
Maybe I wrote it.... That scares me, that I could be the match that starts that fire.
So yes, it scares me, and when you read some interviews with killers, murderers, rapists abusers. They were unable to separate life from fantasy. It may have been movies, literature, porn, anything that depicts a horriful crime as something acceptable....
This is my opinion. I am not blaming or shaming anybody. A question was asked, and I am offering nothing but how I see it.

Cagivagurl

With all due respect, I hear what you're saying and all of the emotion behind it, but it's really not an author's fault that their depiction went and twisted the screw in someone else's head to inspire them to do some horrific action. We literally cannot be accountable for potentially everyone's mind, much less their actions. If anything I hope my saying that lifts some potential residual guilt off of your shoulders as a writer. It simply wouldn't be your fault if this happened, unless you directly incited it by telling a specific person to do a specific thing to another real person in real life from within the story. Even the people who write NC/R are not even attempting to do this incitement. If they were I'd be shocked.

 

[Aaliyah69]

This is a question I have asked myself a thousand times. (Probably more)
I realise what I am about to write, is going to get me in hot water. I also gather, it will not be appreciated by many here.

Women are treated appallingly around the world.
Banned from education
Not allowed to vote
Not allowed to hold office
Not allowed to travel unaccompanied by a male.
Killed at birth because the family cannot afford a dowry.
Cannot borrow money, get credit
Cannot own property
Traded as sex slaves. Prostitures... Women are a currency.
Sold for prices less than a donkey.

Even in 1st world countries, some of these problems are still in use.

The world is governed by men, and they are treated differently. They think they are the superior gender. The saying "It's a mans world." Rings very true.

Women in the work place have to work harder, for less pay to try and make it....

Pornography, is geared towards male satisfaction. Females are nothing more than objects for their gratification. Women are tortured, humiliated, raped, gang banged and used as nothing other than somewhere to squirt their junk. Bukaki....

I like erotica, sexy stories filled with romance and positive emotions.
I think that erotic stories, feed the negative aspects of how women are seen and treated.
Are we adding to this pile of feces?
Yes, I think we are (That is my opinion)
It does concern me, and I have considered many times stopping writing. Anything to stop adding fuel to the fire.

I have tried to convince myself that I portray women positively, and I'm not adding to the misogynistic swamp of porn. Literotica is (IMO) 90% male readership. The same proportion stands for writers. IMO.
I fear that I am doing as much damage as everybody else.
Writing though has become somewhat of an addiction, one that I am struggling to give up.
Now, I try.... probably unsuccessfully to write strong, positive women characters. If I can only convince myself....

Cagivagurl

I agree, and I think it's up to us women to RAISE the BAR, I love erotic, passionate, emotional, loving stories. I say we keep writing from our perspective by utilizing our sexual energy in a respectful and passionate manner, we teach others how to treat us, and the objective degrading aspect needs to be turned into something beautiful and sacred.

 

[Cagivagurl]

With all due respect, I hear what you're saying and all of the emotion behind it, but it's really not an author's fault that their depiction went and twisted the screw in someone else's head to inspire them to do some horrific action. We literally cannot be accountable for potentially everyone's mind, much less their actions. If anything I hope my saying that lifts some potential residual guilt off of your shoulders as a writer. It simply wouldn't be your fault if this happened, unless you directly incited it by telling a specific person to do a specific thing to another real person in real life from within the story. Even the people who write NC/R are not even attempting to do this incitement. If they were I'd be shocked.

For me,
It isn't quite that simple.
I don't want this to sound like I am preaching. I'm not... That I promise.
I guess I see it as exercising social conscience. I'm not good with words, so this sounds wrong... Apologies.
Sometimes, you can't just close your eyes, and say it's not my fault....
I accept what you said, and agree to an extent.
I believe, we have to hold ourselves to certain standards... Again, my opinion only...
I like to write, enjoy the challenge. Now when I write, I try to stay away from the sketchy areas...
My way of controlling what meagre influence I have.

Cagivagurl