Authors- how do you deal with objectification?

[AchtungNight]

Even as a smut artist, I cringe every time I see something in the media or comments here about unsolicited sexual advances, objectification of women, or sexism. It really bothers me and sometimes I wonder if I am contributing more to the problem than fixing it by writing smut. My question is- to both male and female writers- do you deal with similar issues and how do you handle it?

I try to tell myself that the sex I write about is consensual and enjoyable for all parties involved, it entertains my fans, and it is conservative compared to a lot of other stuff out there. I also tell myself I don’t objectify women or men- I honor them by portraying realistic characters with human qualities who do not have issues with fair representation and satisfaction of their desires. Sexual attraction is not always a bad thing and it is worthwhile to create a vision where it can be appreciated rather than condemned.

:sigh: Sometimes I wish my real life had more of that too.

 

[EmilyMiller]

There is a difference between thinking that some attribute or combination of attributes of a woman is attractive and thinking that this is the only thing that she has to offer.

IRL, I like being called sexy. I like being called cute. What I don’t like is people who don’t see anything beyond physical appearance.

Em

 

[ElectricBlue]

Write your characters as human beings, with empathy and respect, who just happen to be having sex. I make no apologies for writing with a male gaze, but you can still write women who aren't bimbo tropes and who have minds of their own.

 

[AchtungNight]

There is a difference between thinking that some attribute or combination of attributes of a woman is attractive and thinking that this is the only thing that she has to offer.

IRL, I like being called sexy. I like being called cute. What I don’t like is people who don’t see anything beyond physical appearance.

Em

On that note- you’re a very talented artist and intelligent person, Emily. Also a compassionate and imaginative one.

 

[onehitwanda]

I am a class one letch. I love staring at other women (and some men) as creatures; almost-but-obviously-not-quite the same way I'd stare at a particularly beautiful horse, or sunset, or sports car or aircraft.

It's just who I am.

But I'm also (I'd like to think) more than self-aware enough to know that they're not just a nice bum, or great boobs, or super fucking awesome kick-ass turboramjets.

We see a thin facade. It's good to appreciate the facade while also knowing that there is a fractal being (or object) behind it with complexities we cannot even begin to fathom.

But boobs and bums are nice, and I will die with that on my gravestone.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

As usual, I think Em hit the nail on the head.
There really isn't anything wrong with a sincere compliment about someone's appearance. We are just at a weird cultural point where people want to make a big deal out of that.

 

[nice90sguy]

I love it when women only want me for my body. It makes me feel so deliciously cheap

 

[Djmac1031]

I am a class one letch. I love staring at other women (and some men) as creatures; almost-but-obviously-not-quite the same way I'd stare at a particularly beautiful horse, or sunset, or sports car or aircraft.

It's just who I am.

But I'm also (I'd like to think) more than self-aware enough to know that they're not just a nice bum, or great boobs, or super fucking awesome kick-ass turboramjets.

We see a thin facade. It's good to appreciate the facade while also knowing that there is a fractal being (or object) behind it with complexities we cannot even begin to fathom.

But boobs and bums are nice, and I will die with that on my gravestone.

I'm with @onehitwanda here.

I'm never going to apologize for admiring a beautiful woman.

That said: I also try very hard not to be a fucking creep about it.

If a beautiful woman in yoga pants and a sports bra walks past me at the gym, I'll absolutely look.

Not stare, not stalk.

Just look.

Then go about my business.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Even as a smut artist, I cringe every time I see something in the media or comments here about unsolicited sexual advances, objectification of women, or sexism. It really bothers me and sometimes I wonder if I am contributing more to the problem than fixing it by writing smut. My question is- to both male and female writers- do you deal with similar issues and how do you handle it?

I try to tell myself that the sex I write about is consensual and enjoyable for all parties involved, it entertains my fans, and it is conservative compared to a lot of other stuff out there. I also tell myself I don’t objectify women or men- I honor them by portraying realistic characters with human qualities who do not have issues with fair representation and satisfaction of their desires. Sexual attraction is not always a bad thing and it is worthwhile to create a vision where it can be appreciated rather than condemned.

:sigh: Sometimes I wish my real life had more of that too.

This is a question I have asked myself a thousand times. (Probably more)
I realise what I am about to write, is going to get me in hot water. I also gather, it will not be appreciated by many here.

Women are treated appallingly around the world.
Banned from education
Not allowed to vote
Not allowed to hold office
Not allowed to travel unaccompanied by a male.
Killed at birth because the family cannot afford a dowry.
Cannot borrow money, get credit
Cannot own property
Traded as sex slaves. Prostitures... Women are a currency.
Sold for prices less than a donkey.

Even in 1st world countries, some of these problems are still in use.

The world is governed by men, and they are treated differently. They think they are the superior gender. The saying "It's a mans world." Rings very true.

Women in the work place have to work harder, for less pay to try and make it....

Pornography, is geared towards male satisfaction. Females are nothing more than objects for their gratification. Women are tortured, humiliated, raped, gang banged and used as nothing other than somewhere to squirt their junk. Bukaki....

I like erotica, sexy stories filled with romance and positive emotions.
I think that erotic stories, feed the negative aspects of how women are seen and treated.
Are we adding to this pile of feces?
Yes, I think we are (That is my opinion)
It does concern me, and I have considered many times stopping writing. Anything to stop adding fuel to the fire.

I have tried to convince myself that I portray women positively, and I'm not adding to the misogynistic swamp of porn. Literotica is (IMO) 90% male readership. The same proportion stands for writers. IMO.
I fear that I am doing as much damage as everybody else.
Writing though has become somewhat of an addiction, one that I am struggling to give up.
Now, I try.... probably unsuccessfully to write strong, positive women characters. If I can only convince myself....

Cagivagurl

 

[nice90sguy]

I think you should just write what turns you on. No point in hating on yourself. And if you want to change people's attitudes in your stories go ahead --or don't.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I've learned in life that for some people, nothing is good enough. I may view my stories (or anything else, really) one way, but someone else out there will always have a different view. It's very important to me that my stories are glowing portrayals, love-letters of sorts, like gifts... but not everyone will see it that way. It's best to just move on knowing that.

 

[EmilyMiller]

On that note- you’re a very talented artist and intelligent person, Emily. Also a compassionate and imaginative one.

That’s very sweet of you to say - thank you

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

This is a question I have asked myself a thousand times. (Probably more)
I realise what I am about to write, is going to get me in hot water. I also gather, it will not be appreciated by many here.

Women are treated appallingly around the world.
Banned from education
Not allowed to vote
Not allowed to hold office
Not allowed to travel unaccompanied by a male.
Killed at birth because the family cannot afford a dowry.
Cannot borrow money, get credit
Cannot own property
Traded as sex slaves. Prostitures... Women are a currency.
Sold for prices less than a donkey.

Even in 1st world countries, some of these problems are still in use.

The world is governed by men, and they are treated differently. They think they are the superior gender. The saying "It's a mans world." Rings very true.

Women in the work place have to work harder, for less pay to try and make it....

Pornography, is geared towards male satisfaction. Females are nothing more than objects for their gratification. Women are tortured, humiliated, raped, gang banged and used as nothing other than somewhere to squirt their junk. Bukaki....

I like erotica, sexy stories filled with romance and positive emotions.
I think that erotic stories, feed the negative aspects of how women are seen and treated.
Are we adding to this pile of feces?
Yes, I think we are (That is my opinion)
It does concern me, and I have considered many times stopping writing. Anything to stop adding fuel to the fire.

I have tried to convince myself that I portray women positively, and I'm not adding to the misogynistic swamp of porn. Literotica is (IMO) 90% male readership. The same proportion stands for writers. IMO.
I fear that I am doing as much damage as everybody else.
Writing though has become somewhat of an addiction, one that I am struggling to give up.
Now, I try.... probably unsuccessfully to write strong, positive women characters. If I can only convince myself....

Cagivagurl

You are right in many respects. Even in what we call the West it can suck being a woman and we have it easy compared to many places.

But… I don’t think a woman writing porn adds to the heap. One thing you’ve mentioned is gang bangs. I’ve written a story - my first attempt at a somewhat serious story - which has a widower attending a gang bang as it’s scenario.

But, it’s not about that. It about bereavement and moving on and the idea that sex is essentially being nice to each other. It’s an attempt at a redemption story (with a blow job).

I don’t feel ashamed of it. I don’t feel I’m adding to the pile.

Em

 

[Zootonius]

On that note- you’re a very talented artist and intelligent person, Emily. Also a compassionate and imaginative one.

Don't tell her that! Might go to her head, even if though is true.

(Teasing you Em )

 

[EmilyMiller]

Don't tell her that! Might go to her head, even if though is true.

(Teasing you Em )

No one has ever complained to me about my head. Oh wait…

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

If I'm to be an object, I must be an object of worship! LOL

 

[Euphony]

But boobs and bums are nice, and I will die with that on my gravestone.

I wish you two (or three, or seven, roll how you roll) a long and happy life together and adjacent plots.

 

[Zootonius]

If I'm to be an object, I must be an object of worship! LOL

Why do I suspect that wouldn't be hard...

 

[SimonDoom]

I believe we can be both subjects and objects, and that there's no necessary conflict between the two. I don't believe there's anything inherently wrong with person A looking at person B as an object of sexual desire or beauty. It becomes a problem if this is the only way we think--if we look at other people only as objects for our desire and fail to recognize their humanity and agency that is equal to our own.

 

[Zootonius]

No one has ever complained to me about my head. Oh wait…

Em

Putting that image in my head isn't good for my heart!

 

[Djmac1031]

You are right in many respects. Even in what we call the West it can suck being a woman and we have it easy compared to many places.

But… I don’t think a woman writing porn adds to the heap. One thing you’ve mentioned is gang bangs. I’ve written a story - my first attempt at a somewhat serious story - which has a widower attending a gang bang as it’s scenario.

But, it’s not about that. It about bereavement and moving on and the idea that sex is essentially being nice to each other. It’s an attempt at a redemption story (with a blow job).

I don’t feel ashamed of it. I don’t feel I’m adding to the pile.

Em

I think, just like anything else, there's good and bad when it comes to porn.

Is there a lot of degradation demeaning, objectifying? Absolutely.

But personally I think a lot of the negativaty surrounding the consumption of porn stems from archaic social structures that still to this day shame us for our sexuality, guilt us into repression, and condemn us for expressing it.

I think so much of the ugliness surrounding, not just porn, but the treatment of women in general, would fade if we as a society could just stop with the guilt and shame of it all.

Teach people sex is normal, healthy. Take away the shame and stigma.

Stop with the double standards. Women aren't whores just because they enjoy sex.

Okay before I rant further...

I see a lot of sex POSITIVE stories here too. Ones that don't objectify. And those are the types I gravitate to.

I don't have a solution for the problems surrounding porn or sexuality views or treatment of women.

I just try to be a decent human being. And hopefully my writing reflects that.

 

[Cagivagurl]

You are right in many respects. Even in what we call the West it can suck being a woman and we have it easy compared to many places.

But… I don’t think a woman writing porn adds to the heap. One thing you’ve mentioned is gang bangs. I’ve written a story - my first attempt at a somewhat serious story - which has a widower attending a gang bang as it’s scenario.

But, it’s not about that. It about bereavement and moving on and the idea that sex is essentially being nice to each other. It’s an attempt at a redemption story (with a blow job).

I don’t feel ashamed of it. I don’t feel I’m adding to the pile.

Em

Em,
I wasn't trying to shame anyone. I wasn't trying to suggest you, or anybody shouldn't write what you want...
I was trying to express my own concerns.
I have written some pretty squiggy shit myself. Squirming uncomfortably... LOL
My view is.... We do, unitentionally add to the quagmire. For the people who sit out on the fringes and read what I write, I wonder. Am I encouraging, or fuelling their unhealthy attitudes towards women???
God, I hope not, but I do wonder, and cringe when I hit submit...
I'm not moralising, or pointing the finger. I am as bad as anybody in here I promise.
Like @onehitwanda said. I'm pervy as well. I like to admire gorgeous sexy women. I'm only human... I try not to be obvious... Sunglasses are great.
Anyway, just wanted to say. I wasn't accusing, or criticizing. Merely pontificating...

Cagivagurl

 

[lovecraft68]

This is a question I have asked myself a thousand times. (Probably more)
I realise what I am about to write, is going to get me in hot water. I also gather, it will not be appreciated by many here.

Women are treated appallingly around the world.
Banned from education
Not allowed to vote
Not allowed to hold office
Not allowed to travel unaccompanied by a male.
Killed at birth because the family cannot afford a dowry.
Cannot borrow money, get credit
Cannot own property
Traded as sex slaves. Prostitures... Women are a currency.
Sold for prices less than a donkey.

Even in 1st world countries, some of these problems are still in use.

The world is governed by men, and they are treated differently. They think they are the superior gender. The saying "It's a mans world." Rings very true.

Women in the work place have to work harder, for less pay to try and make it....

Pornography, is geared towards male satisfaction. Females are nothing more than objects for their gratification. Women are tortured, humiliated, raped, gang banged and used as nothing other than somewhere to squirt their junk. Bukaki....

I like erotica, sexy stories filled with romance and positive emotions.
I think that erotic stories, feed the negative aspects of how women are seen and treated.
Are we adding to this pile of feces?
Yes, I think we are (That is my opinion)
It does concern me, and I have considered many times stopping writing. Anything to stop adding fuel to the fire.

I have tried to convince myself that I portray women positively, and I'm not adding to the misogynistic swamp of porn. Literotica is (IMO) 90% male readership. The same proportion stands for writers. IMO.
I fear that I am doing as much damage as everybody else.
Writing though has become somewhat of an addiction, one that I am struggling to give up.
Now, I try.... probably unsuccessfully to write strong, positive women characters. If I can only convince myself....

Cagivagurl

Preach it!

My women are generally the aggressor-not femdom, just generally the initiator and the guys will get the ride of a lifetime, but on her terms-because in my stories no man will ever control them. I used to get an occasional negative remark on it, but not much. Now its constant which shows you where the readership is going here....to the dogs.

I changed my AV just to piss off the LW incels that ghost here.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think, just like anything else, there's good and bad when it comes to porn.

Is there a lot of degradation demeaning, objectifying? Absolutely.

But personally I think a lot of the negativaty surrounding the consumption of porn stems from archaic social structures that still to this day shame us for our sexuality, guilt us into repression, and condemn us for expressing it.

I think so much of the ugliness surrounding, not just porn, but the treatment of women in general, would fade if we as a society could just stop with the guilt and shame of it all.

Teach people sex is normal, healthy. Take away the shame and stigma.

Stop with the double standards. Women aren't whores just because they enjoy sex.

Okay before I rant further...

I see a lot of sex POSITIVE stories here too. Ones that don't objectify. And those are the types I gravitate to.

I don't have a solution for the problems surrounding porn or sexuality views or treatment of women.

I just try to be a decent human being. And hopefully my writing reflects that.

What he said

Em

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Em,
I wasn't trying to shame anyone. I wasn't trying to suggest you, or anybody shouldn't write what you want...
I was trying to express my own concerns.
I have written some pretty squiggy shit myself. Squirming uncomfortably... LOL
My view is.... We do, unitentionally add to the quagmire. For the people who sit out on the fringes and read what I write, I wonder. Am I encouraging, or fuelling their unhealthy attitudes towards women???
God, I hope not, but I do wonder, and cringe when I hit submit...
I'm not moralising, or pointing the finger. I am as bad as anybody in here I promise.
Like @onehitwanda said. I'm pervy as well. I like to admire gorgeous sexy women. I'm only human... I try not to be obvious... Sunglasses are great.
Anyway, just wanted to say. I wasn't accusing, or criticizing. Merely pontificating...

Cagivagurl

I think you made a valid point, and those are real concerns.
I won't attempt to address it all, but with respect to the porn industry, it is very much male dominated simply because that has historically been the market. This isn’t to say that some women don't but just talking in generalities. Men buy porn, women buy romance novels.
I don't think I'm making the problem worse when I write, because I write for me. Men might control most of the industry, but this is my little corner and I can do whatever I want.