Authors- how do you deal with objectification?

[ElectricBlue]

AH leans much more female than the site as a whole. Feels like it might be 30% female here.

Em

I reckon it might even be higher. I reckon someone should tot it up, the main players. Won't be me, I'm going out soon to see the kids with the bebe.

 

[StillStunned]

depends if you're deboned or not.

I have no witty comeback to that.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And now they're all working in corporate insurance or banking. God save us from dumb college girls. Why would you even do that?

Hey! I’m a dumb college girl working in corporate insurance!

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's frightening how true this is. One of my co-workers is married to a tattoo artist. He's the belle of the ball at our company Christmas party every year because he has ALL the best stories. He's in his 40s and been doing it his whole life, and the stuff he's seen...

My favorite was he had a group of 4 college girls come in one afternoon. All four of them wanted a tattoo of a line drawing of cartoon sperm on the inside of their lower lip.
He gives them his usual ethical, "you've thought this through, you really want to do this?"
"Yes!" all the way around, so they do the paperwork and he goes to work.
He's tattooing the last girl, they've all be laughing and joking the whole time, and one of them says, "Who's will wear off first?".
He stopped, looked at the girl and says, "Excuse me?"
"We were betting who's tattoo would wear off first".
Long story short, they knew tattoos are permanent, but they figured being on the inside of the mouth that was somehow different and that it would be gone in 5 or 6 years.

There's some truth to that. Any tattoo will spread and fade over time; with some locations and designs it's slow enough to ignore over a human lifetime, but it can happen very fast in others, and the inner lip is known for being one of the fastest locations to fade. As always, individual results vary, but it's quite common for an inner-lip tattoo to be gone within about five years.

https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-.../a-lip-tattoo-should-you-get-ink-on-your-lips

"It's also worth noting that lip tattoos, both inside and outside of the mouth, tend to fade more quickly than other types of tattoo. Inner lip tattoos are most likely to fade away because of the way the inner lip area heals. For many people, an inner lip tattoo will only last for a few years. In some cases, the tattoo might fade away entirely after just a few months."

https://vividinktattoos.co.uk/inner-lip-tattoos/

"Your lower lip is a place of all kinds of frictions (food, rubbing against your teeth etc.) and saliva, meaning that any ink is sure to be more short-lived than your other tattoos. The general consensus is that it will stay around five years, but it could also either be shorter or potentially remain somewhat smudgy for a long time after, never truly disappearing."

 

[ElectricBlue]

Hey! I’m a dumb college girl working in corporate insurance!

Em

You might be one, but you're not the other

 

[lovecraft68]

There's some truth to that. Any tattoo will spread and fade over time; with some locations and designs it's slow enough to ignore over a human lifetime, but it can happen very fast in others, and the inner lip is known for being one of the fastest locations to fade. As always, individual results vary, but it's quite common for an inner-lip tattoo to be gone within about five years.

https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-.../a-lip-tattoo-should-you-get-ink-on-your-lips

"It's also worth noting that lip tattoos, both inside and outside of the mouth, tend to fade more quickly than other types of tattoo. Inner lip tattoos are most likely to fade away because of the way the inner lip area heals. For many people, an inner lip tattoo will only last for a few years. In some cases, the tattoo might fade away entirely after just a few months."

https://vividinktattoos.co.uk/inner-lip-tattoos/

"Your lower lip is a place of all kinds of frictions (food, rubbing against your teeth etc.) and saliva, meaning that any ink is sure to be more short-lived than your other tattoos. The general consensus is that it will stay around five years, but it could also either be shorter or potentially remain somewhat smudgy for a long time after, never truly disappearing."

It makes sense simply because the area is never dry.

I recently had the half sleeve on my upper right arm recolored because after 18 years some of the color had faded, and I avoid the sun like the plague which normally makes the color hold out longer. On the other hand, a friend of mine has a piece 20+ years old that you'd swear was done a couple years ago.

Skin tone and type and toughness makes a difference too. For whatever reason My back doesn't take color well, it bleeds out quickly and the guy who has been doing mine for years said if he went any deeper to "make it stick" it could scar. I ended up having the lettering across my shoulders all redone in black and the large center piece in my back as well except for the eyes, which I've had touched up here and there just fifteen minutes for a couple of red pupils once every couple of years

 

[AchtungNight]

Hey! I’m a dumb college girl working in corporate insurance!

Em

I don’t consider you “dumb”.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I don’t consider you “dumb”.

No, I never stop talking .

Em

 

[Zootonius]

I have no witty comeback to that.

Beware @onehitwanda and here rapier wit!

(Or just her rapier, for that matter)

 

[AG31]

If, by objectification, you mean the appreciation of another's physicality without taking into account their whole self, their personhood, I think it's just fine. It's a gift to be attracted to and turned on by another's physicality. I just began to appreciate men's physicality a few year's ago, after a long life of low libido. Now, as I've said several times, I undress men in my mind in church and on the subway. My life is richer. I'm a more well rounded person.

Have I lost the ability to relate to men in their personhood? No way. Not at all. Not even a smidgen. I'm just a more alive person when I do relate.

 

[AchtungNight]

By objectification, I mean the reduction of a person to just one category that is overemphasized and sexualized to a degree the recognized person finds it objectionable. Maybe I should have used “fetishized” instead.

 

[AG31]

to a degree the recognized person finds it objectionable. Maybe I should have used “fetishized” instead.

Oh. Right. My objects of appreciation don't even know I'm appreciating them. I'm not sure "fetishized" help. Objection works.

 

[AG31]

By objectification, I mean the reduction of a person to just one category that is overemphasized and sexualized to a degree the recognized person finds it objectionable. Maybe I should have used “fetishized” instead.

But wait! Aren't we talking about writing fiction here? Who is finding it objectionable?

 

[AchtungNight]

But wait! Aren't we talking about writing fiction here? Who is finding it objectionable?

People who aren’t fans of smut.

 

[onehitwanda]

Beware @onehitwanda and here rapier wit!

(Or just her rapier, for that matter)

All my perk points are in archery and speechcraft.

 

[Zootonius]

All my perk points are in archery and speechcraft.

Now you’re freakin me out!

 

[onehitwanda]

Now you’re freakin me out!

take two lesbians out for drinks and call me in the morning.

 

[AchtungNight]

All my perk points are in archery and speechcraft.

Those can be nasty skills too.

 

[AG31]

But wait! Aren't we talking about writing fiction here? Who is finding it objectionable?

People who aren’t fans of smut.

Hmmm... Seems like you've answered your own question. I'm not a fan of the term "smut" because it has all sorts of bad connotations, whereas simple stories focusing on erotic themes can be fine. Here's an example of "objectification" that I wrote and can't publish on the story side because it's too short. I hope some folks here enjoy it.

Ode​

He was lying supine on top of the bedspread. He smiled at her lazily.

She loved his legs. She loved the rough texture and the contours of the muscles in his thighs.

She especially loved the tangled what's-it at the top of his legs. And how it could grow and grow, to maybe four times it's original size. To something straight and hard, pointing up to the firm, carved torso. Masculine patterned hair, coarse to her hand.

So she could spread her legs and slide up, slide down and with just a touch of her fingers bring it home.

 

[Zootonius]

take two lesbians out for drinks and call me in the morning.

Uh, I’d consider the prescription but my my wife, as a physician, has a second opinion

 

[AG31]

I reckon it might even be higher. I reckon someone should tot it up, the main players. Won't be me, I'm going out soon to see the kids with the bebe.

Who's "the bebe?"

 

[AG31]

I like erotica, sexy stories filled with romance and positive emotions.
I think that erotic stories, feed the negative aspects of how women are seen and treated.


I have tried to convince myself that I portray women positively, and I'm not adding to the misogynistic swamp of porn. Literotica is (IMO) 90% male readership. The same proportion stands for writers. IMO.
I fear that I am doing as much damage as everybody else.

For me a salient aspect of erotica is when it is based on fantasies it touches on the irrational part of our psyches. We have no control over what turns us on. We have lots of control over what we do in real life. But I think it's unhealthy to deny the irrational, erotic part of our psyches. On LushStories a while ago an Asian woman wrote a passionate, articulate statement about why she should be allowed to submit stories where people expressed anti-Asian sentiments. That's what turned her on. Certainly not rational. But believable? Yes. She should be allowed her complete self hood.

 

[Cagivagurl]

For me a salient aspect of erotica is when it is based on fantasies it touches on the irrational part of our psyches. We have no control over what turns us on. We have lots of control over what we do in real life. But I think it's unhealthy to deny the irrational, erotic part of our psyches. On LushStories a while ago an Asian woman wrote a passionate, articulate statement about why she should be allowed to submit stories where people expressed anti-Asian sentiments. That's what turned her on. Certainly not rational. But believable? Yes. She should be allowed her complete self hood.

I'm not sure about it.
I understand what you are saying. My mind is twisted, and I am far from the norm... (Whatever the hell that is)
I do worry though. Not everything I think, or write should be seen in public...
Why?
Because what we read isn't only read by sane people who can rationalise.
They see fantasies, and think it's real...
For those that live on the outer edges of society, it (MAY) Remember, this is only my opinion... May lead them to act out in real life something I wrote....
That is what scares me.
If I wrote a non con story, and read in a newspaper months later that it was my story that triggered a person to actually attempt it...
I would find that hard to live with.
For the average person, they can separate fact from fiction.
Others don't have that ability...
It is, just my thoughts about the negative side of what we do.
I'm not targeting individuals, or kinks.
I believe, that we have to be honest with ourselves. (Me anyway)
I love writing, I'm addicted to it.
Understanding there is a negative element to what I'm producing, won't stop me. It just makes me wonder....

Cagivagurl

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm not sure about it.
I understand what you are saying. My mind is twisted, and I am far from the norm... (Whatever the hell that is)
I do worry though. Not everything I think, or write should be seen in public...
Why?
Because what we read isn't only read by sane people who can rationalise.
They see fantasies, and think it's real...
For those that live on the outer edges of society, it (MAY) Remember, this is only my opinion... May lead them to act out in real life something I wrote....
That is what scares me.
If I wrote a non con story, and read in a newspaper months later that it was my story that triggered a person to actually attempt it...
I would find that hard to live with.
For the average person, they can separate fact from fiction.
Others don't have that ability...
It is, just my thoughts about the negative side of what we do.
I'm not targeting individuals, or kinks.
I believe, that we have to be honest with ourselves. (Me anyway)
I love writing, I'm addicted to it.
Understanding there is a negative element to what I'm producing, won't stop me. It just makes me wonder....

Cagivagurl

I tend to agree with you. I believe in the power of words, and their ability to touch people. We're all perfectly comfortable saying, "Wow, someone came reading my story, that's cool," but when someone points out the possibility of a negative or harmful response to what can be, very often, ugly content, there are many people who are quick to say, "Oh, but it's only fantasy, people can tell the difference between it and reality. It's harmless, really, it is."

I'm not sure you can have it both ways.

That's why I have this notion of "socially responsible erotica," where you do think for a few moments about what you write and how it might affect others, rather than write 100% self-gratuitously.

 

[AchtungNight]

I agree with the concept of socially responsible erotica too. It’s why I always try to portray characters as realistic people and not just walking talking cliches of some kind. It only becomes a problem when readers prefer a cliche and say, rate a Loving Wives story low because there’s no cheating or cuckoldry involved.