Are sub missives more Vulnerable?

[kittiGoddess]

deleted

 

[DenialGirl81]

As submissives we are definitely more vulnerable in my opinion. Giving up control, surrendering completely, not just physically but emotionally takes a lot of trust. Unfortunately there are those out there that will take advantage of this.

 

[Malich]

Ok, this is from a Dom and a male's perspective so take it as you wish. It's also aim generally not at your situation in particular. Sorry in advance if it comes out as a bit of a rant. This is sort of a button topic for me!

There is, i feel, a greater chance to get carried away in the fantasy with a D/s relationship and for people of all flavours to overstate what they can do or what they can offer and it becomes easy to fall into a circular way of thinking that goes something like this

"I finally found someone who say they like the same thing as me. This is great"

"Ok, this isn't quite what they promised but its close enough and it took so long to find it that I'll let them off this time. maybe i can convince them to try something I want"

"Ok, this still isn't right. But they're my Dom / sub and I am glad to have them after so long."

And it goes round and round until you realise you're not actually getting anything close to what you were promised.

Yes there are manipulative "doms" out there who deliberately go after young, naive subs and try to isolate them and then convince them that their way is the true way and to prevent them talking to others who might show them the light. Likewise I have been the somewhat confused partner of a manipulative submissive trying to pick up the pieces.

However, imho, the bulk of failed D/s relationships come more through miscommunication than from deliberate malice. Likewise, the bulk of manipulation of submissives could be avoided if people just followed some basic precautions. I get scared every time I see a post on a classified page where at 8pm on a dreary evening a sub posts a "looking for a master" type post and by 8:25 they post "Am now collared by DubiousMaster1234 and am not permitted to talk to other doms. Other subs please message me as we're looking for another woman."

D/s is exciting, people want to experience everything, and that's good. But its not a race. Take your time, find the right person. The first Dom / sub who comes along is unlikely to be the right one. Hell, I've been looking for "little miss right" for 15 years now and while I've met some wonderful ladies its never lasted.

Talk to people about everything. If someone from Literotica tells you black is black, confirm it with someone else from fetlife. If they say black is white, keep asking until you either find a bulk consensus or identify that the question you asked has no right or wrong answer. Never accept a single viewpoint on anything... especially from someone who has a vested interest in telling you what they think you want to hear. And avoid people who say one thing but do something else. And if if feels wrong, then it probably is wrong. No-one here is going to mock you (With the exception of a few well known trolls) for coming and posting a question about something that has happened to you and if that is normal or not. We've all been new, we've all been confused and we all got that kind of support from someone.

Ok, I'm going to stop here as I'm both ranting and rambling. Feel free to comment on specifics if you want more details on my somewhat jumbled thought processes.

(I'm just getting over a mild bout of food poisoning so I'm a little tired and incoherent)

Mal

 

[twister947]

I cannot address the question posited, but I can tell you this: all men are not manipulative liars, any more than all women are. Think with your mind.

 

[tristantrotsky]

This Is Me… Naked

I cannot address the question posited, but I can tell you this: all men are not manipulative liars, any more than all women are. Think with your mind.

There is always pain, and there is always risk, in every relationship.
The ritual elements of control doesn't change or alter that basic equation.
All of my Boyfriends have been older, mature, authority figures. Because that is precisely what I need. My late-teen years were confused, I was a mess, prone to dark depressive moods and moments of self-harming. Whatever my talents may be I felt socially inept, tongue-tied, low in self-esteem and lacking confidence. I felt like a freakish outsider, couldn't even hold a rational conversation. My first Boyfriend found me, turned my life around, brought out my suppressed inner capacity. He showed me what I could be, and through him, under his erotic control, I now know myself. In submitting myself absolutely to him sexually, becoming his personal cock-slave, I find my own identity. I feel safe and secure under his control, each time we have sex it renews that sense of belonging, so I ensure that I suck his cock as frequently as I can, and become fretful when I'm deprived of regular reassuring doses of his spunk. If I'm sometimes needy, I express that through total subservience to his will. I am what he needs me to be. I do whatever he wants me to do, no matter how some-may-say degrading that is - ass-fucking, cross-dressing, face-fucking, deep-throating, light restraint, group sex with other guys too. I need his firm and absolute ownership, otherwise my life will fall apart again. I respect him, depend on him, look up to him for guidance. Sorry to delve into such murky psycho-sexual detail, but this is my life, and I'm grateful for it...

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[may_I_please]

My thoughts are that interpersonal relationships make all parties vulnerable

Also I always love reading Malich's postings

 

[Malich]

Even the incoherent, post lurg ones?

*bows*

Thank you.

Elle, not the brittle. I think it was yesterday's padya bake lunch.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[seela]

If by vulnerable you mean more likely to buy into lies, then no, I don't think submissive women are any more vulnerable than any other person. There are submissive people, in all genders, who are so eager to experience things that they dismiss the little things they find off. Similarly there are plenty of dominant people who ignore their gut feeling and the subtle hints that something's not right.

Being brand new to this world and finally, perhaps after years of waiting, getting the chance to explore and experience the things you've (general you) only imagined can lead to stupid decisions all around.

It still doesn't mean that submissive people are categorically more vulnerable or incapable of making good choices in regard to their partners. Submissiveness doesn't automatically mean naivete.

 

[CutieMouse]

I am asking this question as a pissed off submissive. We all know that men are like atoms, they make up everything!.

You must be dealing with a different class of men, than I. Because the men I invest my time, energy, intellect, experience, etc in... do not "make up everything".

Do you feel that submissive women are more vulnerable to these lies especially from Doms who know just how to speak to us.

Nope. When I was younger, and new, and had rainbows and kinky stars in my eyes - yes, I was more vulnerable. But the vulnerability didn't have anything to do with my orientation [submissive]. I was vulnerable because I was inexperienced in developing healthy relationships.

Do I believe people who are less experienced in life have a harder time judging character? Yes.

Do I believe people who look at D/s (or BDSM) as some magical, different-from-"vanilla relationships", deeper connection, blahblahblah - usually ignore red flags, because DOM [insert echo] -are more likely to have the rug pulled out from under them? Yes.

Am I automatically MORE likely to blindly accept anything some guy says because he self-titles as DOM [again, insert echo]? Hahahahaha.... no.

Do I ignore common sense, and/or refuse to ask difficult questions, set healthy boundaries, focus on compatibility issues, push for answers when someone doesn't sound or feel right? Nope. Not in a million years.

I believed everything my Dom promised me and his excuses and now I am angry at myself for being so naive but are we programmed like that, to take the BS because we are supposed to trust them?

Your thoughts?

I am so not "programmed" like that. Especially not with relation to my orientation [submissive].

However, once upon a time I was more likely to accept poor behavior from a partner/potential partner, because I was used to inappropriate, unhealthy, toxic, manipulative relationship dynamics. Which had nothing to do with D/s, and everything to do with not knowing how to choose healthy relationships, create healthy boundaries, and/or communicate effectively - especially asking the sorts of questions most people don't ask.

If you got played, and especially if you've been played repeatedly, it isn't because you ID submissive; you're choosing relationships that allow you to be played, and blaming D/s when everything goes pear shaped so you can absolve yourself of any responsibility.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I am asking this question as a pissed off submissive. We all know that men are like atoms, they make up everything!. Do you feel that submissive women are more vulnerable to these lies especially from Doms who know just how to speak to us. I believed everything my Dom promised me and his excuses and now I am angry at myself for being so naive but are we programmed like that, to take the BS because we are supposed to trust them?

Your thoughts?

Like many others, I don't agree with your statement about men (and not really about atoms either, but that's beside the point).

I think one reason you can become extra vulnerable, is believing the myths about how D/s works.
People are people and life is life in these kinds of relationships. The people involved still have to work out "what is supposed to be".

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

You are only as vulnerable as you choose to be, and that goes for both sides of a relationship. Everyone has a tender underbelly that will look and act a little different. You get to choose what to reveal or invest, and then the grown up thing to do is to own your choices and their outcomes.

I don't think it really has anything to do with gender or orientations of any sort.

 

[BabblingBrooke]

I am asking this question as a pissed off submissive. We all know that men are like atoms, they make up everything!. Do you feel that submissive women are more vulnerable to these lies especially from Doms who know just how to speak to us. I believed everything my Dom promised me and his excuses and now I am angry at myself for being so naive but are we programmed like that, to take the BS because we are supposed to trust them?

Your thoughts?

You have already received some fantastic responses in this thread.

For myself, in my currently relationship I am very vulnerable, yes. But it took us months to get to this level of trust. He is every bit as vulnerable. We have built a safe and trusting relationship in which we are both now free to completely let our guards down. That said, I still get to say no. So does he.

Sweeping generalizations irk me, too. Making any statement about "all men" is most assuredly false.

 

[SpunThings]

I am not vulnerable unless I spend a lot of time getting to know someone. Then I allow myself to be vulnerable in little bits, and I see how they handle it. I don't ever lay it all out there with blind faith that all will be OK.

It has nothing to do with being submissive. My husband made himself vulnerable to me as well.

 

[bluesky496]

As submissives we are definitely more vulnerable in my opinion. Giving up control, surrendering completely, not just physically but emotionally takes a lot of trust. Unfortunately there are those out there that will take advantage of this.

i tend to agree with you ,we do seem to be more vulnerable and perhaps too trusting but maybe it is because we want to believe and let ourselves be taken advantage of .

 

[SpunThings]

i tend to agree with you ,we do seem to be more vulnerable and perhaps too trusting but maybe it is because we want to believe and let ourselves be taken advantage of .

I certainly am not.

 

[collector_guide]

I'd say submissives are not more vulnerable, but submission can make you vulnerable in different and unique ways from domination.

 

[wicked woman]

You are hurt and your hurt is speaking. All men aren't anything, except men. Just as all women aren't anything but women. Realize you're hurting and deal with it instead of lashing out.

D/s is a relationship at its core, just like any other relationship. No I don't believe as a submissive I am any more vulnerable. I don't drop my intelligence, experience, knowledge, or anything else about myself at the door because I'm submissive. As in any relationship, I take my time making sure my partner is trustworthy before I put my trust in him. So no...just no.

And reread CutieMouse's response (except for the second last paragraph) because she saved me writing it.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I am asking this question as a pissed off submissive. We all know that men are like atoms, they make up everything!. Do you feel that submissive women are more vulnerable to these lies especially from Doms who know just how to speak to us. I believed everything my Dom promised me and his excuses and now I am angry at myself for being so naive but are we programmed like that, to take the BS because we are supposed to trust them?

Your thoughts?

It sucks to be taken advantage of. Or manipulated.

You ask if submissives are more vulnerable. More vulnerable than dominants? More vulnerable than those in vanilla relationships?

I'm going to say that yes, submissives can be particularly vulnerable, with the caveat being experience. Experience makes you less dumb. First-time homebuyers, poker players and pet owners are open to insidious influences.

Lots of people have said that D/s is a relationship like any other, and only standard side-effect warnings are needed. I don't think that's so. It's true that vanilla relationships have all kinds of crazy pitfalls, and there is plenty of abuse and manipulation to go around.

But a relationship of which dominance and submission is a central part can, especially early on, create a haze in which abuse or run-of-the-swill dickishness is romanticized or justified as dominance, and acceptance of it, submission.

Dominant's a vile, selfish fuck? Nah. It's just part of this amazing new dynamic.

That is less of a risk with experience.

This is not to say that submissives are the only ones in D/s relationships for whom vulnerability is a challenge. Dominance is - or can be - about baring your deepest needs. Needs that often aren't so sunny. To have that jerked around, or taken lightly is no less painful for those on the other side of the power-dynamic seesaw.

Also, every time I read this thread title I see huddled WWII crewmen, writing long letters home as their U-boats are rocked by depth charges.

 

[Endless_Night]

My first reaction to this was that sexual submission definitely does make one more vulnerable. Then, after reading several posts I shifted ground. Logically D/s relationships are just relationships, why would they differ from any other type? Still, logical or not, that conclusion left me… vaguely dissatisfied.

Then DGE came along.

To me, his response rings true. D/s relationships are like other relationships…unless they aren’t.

If your kink relationship is well integrated into your regular life, if you’ve been involved in kink long enough to feel comfortable in that identify, if kink came easy, then your D/s relationship probably is just like any other relationship.

If you keep your kink compartmentalized, if you’re new to kink, if kink has been a long and difficult road, then your D/s relationship might be quite different from your other relationships.

If submission requires a different mindset, almost an alter ego, it can be like birthing a new personality. A personality whose boundaries and needs are less clear, who is less certain of what behavior is acceptable and what behavior is appropriate. In that situation it’s an easy leap to being confused about where submission begins and boundaries end. Toss in a little power exchange, a dynamic which requires it’s own unique brand of emotional intimacy, and an excess of vulnerability is not such an odd result.

My caveat is that this would hardly apply only to women and/or submissives. The same could apply for Dominant types, though the parameters of power exchange probably put submissives more at risk.

So, yes. I think submissives may find they’re prey to unusual vulnerability, at least until they gain a little navigational experience.

 

[Cicca_Jai]

I am asking this question as a pissed off submissive. We all know that men are like atoms, they make up everything!. Do you feel that submissive women are more vulnerable to these lies especially from Doms who know just how to speak to us. I believed everything my Dom promised me and his excuses and now I am angry at myself for being so naive but are we programmed like that, to take the BS because we are supposed to trust them?

Your thoughts?

OP, I don't think it is a matter of subs being more or less so than the general population. Some of us are just a little more trusting than we should be... These types of people identify that trait like a hound dog tracking an escaped convict...
It sucks. You live, you learn.
Buy stock in Kleenex and Ben and Jerry's Ice cream! At least you will be making some of the money you spend on these things back.

Next time get to know the guy before you start anything physical up. Who you chose to give your body, heart, and trust to is decided by you only.
If you find this is a pattern for you, seek the help of a qualified professional who can help you identify what it is that you are seeking/lacking etc., and they can assist you in sorting through the issues you face so that you may go on to have happy healthy relationships.
Lying to your partner is abusive IMHO. Do not allow yourself to be abused. You are worth so much more than that.
Good luck dear.
~C~

 

[ToPleaseHim]

This is not to say that submissives are the only ones in D/s relationships for whom vulnerability is a challenge. Dominance is - or can be - about baring your deepest needs. Needs that often aren't so sunny. To have that jerked around, or taken lightly is no less painful for those on the other side of the power-dynamic seesaw.

There's a great deal of vulnerability in exposing these needs to another, even one likely to be game to try. The level of trust involved in a BDSM a relationship is significant.

Also, every time I read this thread title I see huddled WWII crewmen, writing long letters home as their U-boats are rocked by depth charges.

Yes! Me, too. Well, I at least thought of U-boats.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[IrisAlthea]

In my experience the most vulneral person in a relationship is the one least prepared and least willing to walk away if things get ugly or unsustainable.