Supplements for Anxiety/Depression?

SweetErika

Fingers Crossed
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Posts
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My husband has struggled with general anxiety and periods of [mild to moderate] depression for much of his life. The anxiety is kind of just there, at a moderate level, under the surface [usually]. The depression is something I've noticed more in the past few years. He's been retreating more and there's just not a sense of joy or optimism anymore. He's done some talk therapy and he tried Wellbutrin about 6 years ago. However, he also has psoriasis, and his one and only--and quite severe--bout of pustular psoriasis occurred shortly after starting the Wellbutrin, so he's sworn off drug therapy.

I'm trying to slip even more nutrient-dense foods and exercise into our family's lifestyle to benefit all three of us, but at the end of the day, my husband is an adult, and his diet and lifestyle choices are up to him. Even when it's fucking frustrating to watch. He's currently seeing our family therapist individually weekly, although he only has a few more sessions before he leaves for his 4-month work marathon AND he just told me that he hasn't mentioned his anxiety to our therapist yet (which is an issue because it affects our son's anxiety). :rolleyes:

So, he's not willing to consider meds or a lifestyle overhaul, but he IS willing to try herbs/supplements. I've had some success in the past with 5-HTP, St. John's Wort (before it came out that using it for 2+ weeks can cause organ damage), melatonin and Cal/Mag/Zinc. Calming and mood elevation have been brilliant side effects of the MMJ I take for chronic pain (part of that is probably that less pain = a much happier, calmer Erika, but I know a lot of people DO use cannabis therapeutically for depression and anxiety). However, I know there are other mood-stabilizing and calming herbs/supplements out there, I just haven't had much exposure to them.

Any suggestions on natural supplements we can research and possibly try? Have you had success or particularly bad side effects with a particular supplement?
 
St.John's Wort will help in some cases. I tried it and found it helped.

Ditto. I've never been big on believing and supplements but st. John's wort is noticeably helpful.
 
"he just told me that he hasn't mentioned his anxiety to our therapist" so what is his reason/justification for not doing so... this is one avenue where he can seek advice yet choosing not to. Does he fully appreciate the impact this is having on his family?

OK - I was asked recently to "go there" and my reply was "do you realise you are asking me to pick up a bucket of manure and tip it on my head..." While my answer here does not necessarily offer solutions, it may help with appreciating the dread of facing stressful realities.

Block, block blocking to cope and keep pushing through becomes so incredibly engrained that no amount of exercise (of course it is beneficial) or dietary supplements will answer the withheld issues.

Try to impact on him how this is now a bigger issue than just himself and he has a responsibility to address the situation. Either talk to the family therapist yourself or more importantly "I am joining you on the next session, I need to express how I am feeling and the concerns I have for our family".

I know of no other who can research issues and knowledge than yourself Erika, but maybe this time you are looking in the wrong direction.

Have a joint session with the therapist. Express your concerns - that is a far more worth while journey than searching for a magic formula.

Hang in there.

:rose:
 
St. John's Wort can help in some cases; however, if you take too much of it for too long, it can cause a hives like rash. Another herb that might help is Vitex. Vitex is extract of the berry of the Chasteberry tree. It is known to balance hormones and chemical neurotransmitters in the brain like dopamine, serotonin, etc. The liquid extract works better than Vitex capsules.
 
Yep - Rainshine is spot on with her reply.

Sometimes there has to be an acceptance to go through a period of trial and error before the right fit is found. People/metabolisms are different and life style factors can influence - always important to discuss the ongoing effectiveness/impact of any medication with the providing medical consultant.
 
I have to agree with both Night and Rainshine.

One important thing to clarify with your husband is that herbal therapy IS drug therapy. there can be as many side effects with herbs as you will find with prescribed medications.
That is not to say that herbal supplementation is bad. You may actually find, especially in psychiatric medicine, that your therapist is familiar with herbal supplements that would be preferred given the complex condition of your husband. It may be a matter of finding the right cocktail as opposed to any one drug/supplement. When discussing any treatment plan, be sure to include all supplements, medications, things that the neighbor gave you to try...
We have found that the therapist had a very thorough knowledge of available information, even if he came upon it anecdotally.

I guess what I would suggest is along the lines of what has been shared. Use this work marathon as a reason to have an appointment as a couple so that you can get yourselves on the same page for a management plan. At that appointment, share with the therapist that you've been incorporating dietary changes and herbal supplements and ask for professional input.

Regarding the need for you to blow the whistle on mental health issues that your husband isn't ready to share, unless you do it with his full consent, I believe that you run the risk of disrupting trust in your relationship. But I also think that you already know that and are sharing to vent some frustration. It is always with such love and kindness that you speak of your family - I truly hope that you get the help needed to improve the situation.
 
While I kind of knew the triggers for Pustular Psoriasis I think it very good you provided a link. Have you discussed his forthcoming pregnancy?

While the medication, even as suggested in your link, may have contributed so could a spiral of stress (also listed) - all the more reason he should have discussed this with the prescribing doctor.

As I suggested earlier - maybe he is just shit scared of facing what he is trying to hold back.

OK - I don't go down this path often, but again this may help you understand - my journey (may have no comparison) - there was monumental shit in my life, unresolved - I pushed it down because I need to breath... but it creeps up and the more it does the more I tried to just do the usual, but with more intensity - bury the emotions. At wits end I finally admit things are not good - but that also is a recognition that my masking attempts were not working - FUCK! - at the time I needed to ask for help I felt incredibly vulnerable. So OK - I will take on a suggestion/counselling - oh FUCK! (again) I have to bring all this stuff to the surface when I am feeling my weakest - Well I have not had an instant result - fuck this - I will bury it all again because that is the closest to a comfort level I can find.

The experience leaves my traditional coping resources depleted - feeling even worse than before acknowledging the need to ask for help - NO FUCKING WAY am I going to go down that path again! - is the raw feeling. No amount of running or raw carrots will improve things.

If there is a buried issue, you need to guide your husband to acknowledge it and start on the journey to overcome it. Obviously unresolved buried issues can lead to depression, can lead to stress related symptoms such as psoriasis. At the most extreme I had eczema from ankle to neck and what the hell was sleep?

Let him know you will be there for the journey Erika - he may be fearing facing talking of the anxiety issues will lose all that is important to him. Your tough man may be scared beyond your imagining. His saying "Nope!" to further medications while the depression/stress continues maybe an indication of where he is at.

Long post - I know

As for anxiety issues/attacks - remind him that every time these emotions have felt overwhelming in the past, he has actually come out the other side... Much of the anxiety attack can be the fear of "where will this lead? How far am I going to fall?" Understanding the journey can take the fear out of it - still crap, but it becomes more of "here we go again..." and it is possible to ride through it much easier and without the fear.
 
My husband has struggled with general anxiety and periods of [mild to moderate] depression for much of his life. The anxiety is kind of just there, at a moderate level, under the surface [usually]. The depression is something I've noticed more in the past few years. He's been retreating more and there's just not a sense of joy or optimism anymore. He's done some talk therapy and he tried Wellbutrin about 6 years ago. However, he also has psoriasis, and his one and only--and quite severe--bout of pustular psoriasis occurred shortly after starting the Wellbutrin, so he's sworn off drug therapy.

I'm trying to slip even more nutrient-dense foods and exercise into our family's lifestyle to benefit all three of us, but at the end of the day, my husband is an adult, and his diet and lifestyle choices are up to him. Even when it's fucking frustrating to watch. He's currently seeing our family therapist individually weekly, although he only has a few more sessions before he leaves for his 4-month work marathon AND he just told me that he hasn't mentioned his anxiety to our therapist yet (which is an issue because it affects our son's anxiety). :rolleyes:

So, he's not willing to consider meds or a lifestyle overhaul, but he IS willing to try herbs/supplements. I've had some success in the past with 5-HTP, St. John's Wort (before it came out that using it for 2+ weeks can cause organ damage), melatonin and Cal/Mag/Zinc. Calming and mood elevation have been brilliant side effects of the MMJ I take for chronic pain (part of that is probably that less pain = a much happier, calmer Erika, but I know a lot of people DO use cannabis therapeutically for depression and anxiety). However, I know there are other mood-stabilizing and calming herbs/supplements out there, I just haven't had much exposure to them.

Any suggestions on natural supplements we can research and possibly try? Have you had success or particularly bad side effects with a particular supplement?

I am so sorry that your husband is going through this :( :rose:. I assume that he has had a full blood-panel done, including his thyroid and testosterone levels checked? For some people, even a slight imbalance can cause an anxiety/depressive spiral.
On the more medical side - and I don't want to give hope - but when I was diagnosed with h. pylori (the bacteria that causes ulcers), within a week of taking the antibiotics, my anxiety level plummeted. If I was at a 10 at my worst, I'm now at about 4 when shit piles on. Not stellar, but oh so manageable. I know that there are research labs that are looking into the correlation of anxiety/stress and h. pylori. On the other hand, though, after taking the meds to eradicate the bacteria, I was left with a slew of digestive problems, so YKMV. But for me, it was a direct link and it might (and I stress might) be a cause for your husband. Again, it's just my personal experience.

For supplements: St. John's Wort's usually worked for me, until my doctor took me off of it (she's the one who recommended it in the first place) because of the recent studies. In the winter (I have SADs, so long winters are torture for me), I take extra vitamin D, sit in front of my happy-light and I incorporate passionflower tea. Plus, I eat a lot of fatty fish, such as salmon. Again, this is anecdotal, but I've heard quite a few people who had much luck when upping their Omega-3 and -6. If there is trouble sleeping, Valerian root might work. These have tremendously helped with my anxiety before they figured out I had h pylori, and it also helped me to get through this brutal winter in terms of my anxiety.

Have you looked at this site?

I'd like to echo everyone that one bad episode should not eliminate drug therapy - or any form of therapy. It may be that he needs a different combination. Maybe all anti-anxiety meds will cause flareups, but one reaction isn't enough.
I don't know what kind of therapy he is in, but CBT worked wonders in retraining me on how to react to stress when (like Night) my traditional coping mechanism was depleted. Again, this is just what worked for me - it may backfire epically for your husband, or it may not. :eek:

I know you know this, but sometimes it takes awhile to figure out what works for the individual, which adds to everyone's frustrations :rose:. Good luck and I'm keeping you in my thoughts.
 
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As a recent convert to trying St. John's Wort for peripheral neuropathy, I'm quite troubled to read mentions of new studies indicating problems with SJW. Could either Erika or Fire Breeze elaborate on these studies and maybe offer up a link?
 
As a recent convert to trying St. John's Wort for peripheral neuropathy, I'm quite troubled to read mentions of new studies indicating problems with SJW. Could either Erika or Fire Breeze elaborate on these studies and maybe offer up a link?

I see you are asking someone other than myself; however, as far as myself, I wasn't basing my opinion of St. John's Wort of any study, I was basing my advice on my own experience with the herb. I have found that if you take high doses, for an extended period of time, it can cause a hives like rash. And the rash may last a week or two after you stop taking the herb. The rash is quite painful. It appears to be an allergic reaction to high doses, and probably doesn't include every person who uses the herb. I have also found that if you take the herb only on days that you start feeling depressed, (or down), you can keep yourself out of depression while ingesting only a minimal amount of the herb.

As far as Vitex, (Chasteberry), it takes a few days to really stabilize your body chemistry, (hormones, dopamine, serotonin, etc), but once the body chemistry is stabilized, (balanced), it does seem to keep the anxiety away. I haven't experienced any negative side effects to Vitex.

Also if you go the herbal route, don't buy them from sources like grocery stores, Walmart, GNC or other nutritional supplement stores you find in strip malls. They buy in bulk and the supplement you buy may not even contain the herb you are trying to buy. Buy only from reliable sources, (people who only produce and sell herbs). The most highly advertised stores are often the least reliable. That's why they have to advertise so much.
 
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I know a lot of people DO use cannabis therapeutically for depression and anxiety).

I wouldn't suggest using pot for depression or anxiety. There have been recent studies, (and I wish I could find the link), that indicate marijuana may cause permanent physical changes in the brain. I have lived long enough that I have known people who have used marijuana for decades, and I have to admit, the people I have known that were long-time marijuana users, do seem duller and less alert.
 
Be aware that a recent investigation of unregulated 'herbal' supplements sold by Walmart, Walgreens, Target, and GNC showed 80% of those sampled contained NOTHING that was on the label. Other unregulated supplements are loaded with toxins. Unless you grow and pick the herbs yourself, your shopping choices will be between bogus shit or poison shit.
 
I see you are asking someone other than myself; however, as far as myself, I wasn't basing my opinion of St. John's Wort of any study, I was basing my advice on my own experience with the herb. I have found that if you take high doses, for an extended period of time, it can cause a hives like rash. And the rash may last a week or two after you stop taking the herb. The rash is quite painful. It appears to be an allergic reaction to high doses, and probably doesn't include every person who uses the herb. I have also found that if you take the herb only on days that you start feeling depressed, (or down), you can keep yourself out of depression while ingesting only a minimal amount of the herb.

As far as Vitex, (Chasteberry), it takes a few days to really stabilize your body chemistry, (hormones, dopamine, serotonin, etc), but once the body chemistry is stabilized, (balanced), it does seem to keep the anxiety away. I haven't experienced any negative side effects to Vitex.

Also if you go the herbal route, don't buy them from sources like grocery stores, Walmart, GNC or other nutritional supplement stores you find in strip malls. They buy in bulk and the supplement you buy may not even contain the herb you are trying to buy. Buy only from reliable sources, (people who only produce and sell herbs). The most highly advertised stores are often the least reliable. That's why they have to advertise so much.
I've never had a hives-like reaction to anything but I am concerned about the possibility of organ damage. Hence my focus on the comments by SweetErika and fire_breeze.
 
As a recent convert to trying St. John's Wort for peripheral neuropathy, I'm quite troubled to read mentions of new studies indicating problems with SJW. Could either Erika or Fire Breeze elaborate on these studies and maybe offer up a link?

I feel like I need to put a disclaimer. My doc is huge on complimentary medicine. She prescribes conventional medicine only if it's needed and is an advocate for a mind-body balance.

However, she is European trained, and in Europe herbal supplements are strictly regulated. In North America, they are not. Even if a supplement contains trace amount, or the wrong part of the plant, companies can still manufacture and sell their products as supplements.

This is what she - and I noticed - with my taking St. John's Wort. Either it worked or it suddenly stopped. And I used the same company and same dosage, which is one of the reasons she stopped me from taking it.

Additionally, there has been studies that it may interfere with the GI system, may cause kidney damage and mess up hormones (and this one is a red flag for me).

What was decided with my doctor that for me, it would be in my best interest that I do not take SJW long-term, especially as there are no control over the production of the supplement, in addition to the studies of GI disturbance when my GI got messed up.

Most studies suggest that for short-term, SJW's is perfectly healthy; long-term is a bit controversial. However, as always, it's best to work with your trusted medical practitioner. :rose:

Here are a few links:
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...dicine/herbsvitaminsandminerals/st-johns-wort
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/03/health/he-47249
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/st-johns-wort/safety/hrb-20060053
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...entid=329&activeingredientname=st john's wort
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/st-johns-wort

ETA: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/329.html
 
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I feel like I need to put a disclaimer. My doc is huge on complimentary medicine. She prescribes conventional medicine only if it's needed and is an advocate for a mind-body balance.

However, she is European trained, and in Europe herbal supplements are strictly regulated. In North America, they are not. Even if a supplement contains trace amount, or the wrong part of the plant, companies can still manufacture and sell their products as supplements.

This is what she - and I noticed - with my taking St. John's Wort. Either it worked or it suddenly stopped. And I used the same company and same dosage, which is one of the reasons she stopped me from taking it.

Additionally, there has been studies that it may interfere with the GI system, may cause kidney damage and mess up hormones (and this one is a red flag for me).

What was decided with my doctor that for me, it would be in my best interest that I do not take SJW long-term, especially as there are no control over the production of the supplement, in addition to the studies of GI disturbance when my GI got messed up.

Most studies suggest that for short-term, SJW's is perfectly healthy; long-term is a bit controversial. However, as always, it's best to work with your trusted medical practitioner. :rose:

Here are a few links:
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...dicine/herbsvitaminsandminerals/st-johns-wort
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/03/health/he-47249
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/st-johns-wort/safety/hrb-20060053
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...entid=329&activeingredientname=st john's wort
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/st-johns-wort

Thank you. I see I have some reading to do, and I like the solidity of these sources.
 
I've never had a hives-like reaction to anything but I am concerned about the possibility of organ damage. Hence my focus on the comments by SweetErika and fire_breeze.

I noticed that you were asking SweetErika and fire_breeze, but I though I would pass along what experience I had with the herb for what ever it is worth. I think it is an allergic reaction and probably doesn't happen to everyone. I passed it along in case if at some point in the future you started having an itching on your back, (that turns into a burning), you might recognize what is causing it.
 
Thank you. I see I have some reading to do, and I like the solidity of these sources.

Anytime! And only solid sources from me. :rolleyes::eek: :D

I think this is a case where one has to get all information and making an informed decision for oneself. It may be that in your case, the benefits far outweighs the risks. In my case it did not, but that's just my particular case.
 
"he just told me that he hasn't mentioned his anxiety to our therapist" so what is his reason/justification for not doing so... this is one avenue where he can seek advice yet choosing not to. Does he fully appreciate the impact this is having on his family?
No, I don't think he does. He's a classic avoider of all things emotional. I told him kindly but firmly that he needs to tell our therapist at his next session because it's incredibly relevant to our family and all of his other issues.

We did a joint session a few weeks ago, and I realized that I'm not going to be helpful at this point in his therapy. He needs to be able to speak without fear of hurting my feelings and to NOT be able to use me as a distraction during therapy. And the reality is that I've done a lot of therapy throughout my life so I already have the tools to identify many issues and work on solving them, whereas my husband hasn't had the opportunity to learn all of that yet. We'll do joint sessions at some point (and I will likely take his individual appointments over while he's gone for work), but I think his therapy time is best spent laying the groundwork to resolve long-term issues in the future. I discussed this with our therapist, and she agreed.
Swearing off drug therapy because of one bad experience is in my opinion unwise. If he had say rheumatoid arthritis he would keep looking and trying for different treatments until his pain was managed, anxiety and depression are no different. Not all drugs fit all people and he should try others.
I don't disagree with you, Rainy. I'm kind of on the fence in this particular instance because it came so close to life-threatening and my husband's dermatologist thought there was a link. And, hey, if there was a chance that a drug caused the skin on a good portion of my body to blister (and all of the pain that goes with that) for weeks, and I had to take a dangerous drug like cyclosporin to survive, I probably wouldn't consider taking that type of medication again, either (unless it was a life or death situation). I get where he's coming from on this, and I really can't disagree with his position after seeing what he went through. :( Hell, I won't take antidepressants unless it's life-or-death because the side effects of all of the drugs in that class that I've tried have been too numerous and severe for me.

St. John's Wort can help in some cases; however, if you take too much of it for too long, it can cause a hives like rash. Another herb that might help is Vitex. Vitex is extract of the berry of the Chasteberry tree. It is known to balance hormones and chemical neurotransmitters in the brain like dopamine, serotonin, etc. The liquid extract works better than Vitex capsules.

I'll look into the Vitex. I'd want him to consult a Naturopathic MD before he tried anything that could mimic the Wellbutrin, just in case the pustular psoriasis was indeed caused by that medication.

I forgot to mention he also tried buspirone before we had our son, but he found the side effects even at the lowest dose long-term to be too much for him to continue.
 
I have to agree with both Night and Rainshine.

One important thing to clarify with your husband is that herbal therapy IS drug therapy. there can be as many side effects with herbs as you will find with prescribed medications.
That is not to say that herbal supplementation is bad. You may actually find, especially in psychiatric medicine, that your therapist is familiar with herbal supplements that would be preferred given the complex condition of your husband. It may be a matter of finding the right cocktail as opposed to any one drug/supplement. When discussing any treatment plan, be sure to include all supplements, medications, things that the neighbor gave you to try...
We have found that the therapist had a very thorough knowledge of available information, even if he came upon it anecdotally.

I guess what I would suggest is along the lines of what has been shared. Use this work marathon as a reason to have an appointment as a couple so that you can get yourselves on the same page for a management plan. At that appointment, share with the therapist that you've been incorporating dietary changes and herbal supplements and ask for professional input.

Regarding the need for you to blow the whistle on mental health issues that your husband isn't ready to share, unless you do it with his full consent, I believe that you run the risk of disrupting trust in your relationship. But I also think that you already know that and are sharing to vent some frustration. It is always with such love and kindness that you speak of your family - I truly hope that you get the help needed to improve the situation.
Great advice all around; thank you!

Regarding the bold part, I actually DID ask him for consent prior to posting this thread. :) Some of you may know I have some strong feelings about ethics, and I just didn't feel right posting any health info without his full knowledge and consent. He's welcome to read this thread, and I've told him that, though I doubt he will unless I invite him to read something I think he might find interesting. That's the way Lit works in our relationship. :cattail:

I will encourage him to share info I believe to be pertinent to our family situation with our therapist, but I wouldn't be comfortable sharing that with her myself.

And maybe it didn't come across this way, but I'm venting here out of love. I want him to experience more joy and less stress, as a fellow human being and as the man I've loved since 1998. Hey, I'm sure if a little venting here prevents me from venting to/nagging my husband about it, he'll say, "vent away, babe!" :D
 
Great advice all around; thank you!

Regarding the bold part, I actually DID ask him for consent prior to posting this thread. :) Some of you may know I have some strong feelings about ethics, and I just didn't feel right posting any health info without his full knowledge and consent. He's welcome to read this thread, and I've told him that, though I doubt he will unless I invite him to read something I think he might find interesting. That's the way Lit works in our relationship. :cattail:

I will encourage him to share info I believe to be pertinent to our family situation with our therapist, but I wouldn't be comfortable sharing that with her myself.

And maybe it didn't come across this way, but I'm venting here out of love. I want him to experience more joy and less stress, as a fellow human being and as the man I've loved since 1998. Hey, I'm sure if a little venting here prevents me from venting to/nagging my husband about it, he'll say, "vent away, babe!" :D

It came across that way :). The reality is that you are very concerned for the well-being of your husband and the impact of your family. You have made it abundantly clear the importance of trust and communication, and I know that you would rather chew through your arm than to betray that trust with the man you love and share your life with :rose:.

The truth is depression and anxiety hits not just the person but those around them as well. So, to paraphrase your husband, 'vent away'! There are enough studies to indicate the beneficial aspects of venting and sharing frustrations as well as success in a supportive environment. So, really, it's healthy all around :D. I, for one, am honoured to be a part of that supportive environment :rose.
 
I wouldn't suggest using pot for depression or anxiety. There have been recent studies, (and I wish I could find the link), that indicate marijuana may cause permanent physical changes in the brain. I have lived long enough that I have known people who have used marijuana for decades, and I have to admit, the people I have known that were long-time marijuana users, do seem duller and less alert.
I believe the concern over permanent brain changes is primarily for adolescents and young adults who have brains that are still developing, although I've certainly met long-term heavy users like you describe.

Actually, the illegality and fear of becoming dull and lazy kept me away from cannabis until a few years ago. But now that it's legal here and I've had several years to research, talk to a lot of patients and experts, and learn what works for me, I have a different perspective. I primarily take, and am interested in, the high CBD/lower THC strains that have little to no psychoactive effects. CBD is what researchers are currently focusing on for other brain conditions like severe epilepsy, MS, PTSD and autism. I'll be interested to see what the research eventually says about the effects of cannabis on depression and anxiety given my personal [positive] experience.
Be aware that a recent investigation of unregulated 'herbal' supplements sold by Walmart, Walgreens, Target, and GNC showed 80% of those sampled contained NOTHING that was on the label. Other unregulated supplements are loaded with toxins. Unless you grow and pick the herbs yourself, your shopping choices will be between bogus shit or poison shit.
Yeah, I found that out when I was researching green tea extract and EGCG several years ago. The supplement market is a fucking mess, and I wish they'd clean it up so the regulations are stricter like Europe's and we could be sure of quality and dosing.

For now, I stick with brands I know to be reputable, like Oregon's Wild Harvest.
 
GABA (gamma aminobutyric acid).

It is a naturally occurring neurotransmitter in the central nervous system; however, many people experience a deficit. Avoid the Wikipedia article about it. It is a little off the mark. The National Institutes of Health website has the most relevant and up to date info.
 
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