Old 02-21-2018, 01:29 PM   #1
stickygirl
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God and stuff

I need help: my cynicism just derailed and I'm worried I may have upgraded to agnostic. The logic is compelling.

This not a pro-life thing because zygot's don't talk But it'll probably descend into a troll thread. Fuck. Forgot that but I've posted it now. Oh well

"In a mother’s womb were two babies. One asked the other: “Do you believe in life after delivery?” The other replied, “Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.”
“Nonsense” said the first. “There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?”

The second said, “I don’t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can’t understand now.”

The first replied, “That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.”

The second insisted, “Well I think there is something and maybe it’s different than it is here. Maybe we won’t need this physical cord anymore.”

The first replied, “Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.”

“Well, I don’t know,” said the second, “but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.”

The first replied “Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That’s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now?”

The second said, “She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.”

Said the first: “Well I don’t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn’t exist.”

To which the second replied, “Sometimes, when you’re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.”
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:38 PM   #2
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Great example of God as metaphor.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:56 PM   #3
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This doesn't (allegedly) receive much attention from psychologists, but you might nonetheless be interested in Julian Jaynes' bicameral hypothesis, and the relation to magical/spiritual thinking.
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:18 PM   #4
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"And this too shall pass". Wonder who said that? Father, are you there?
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:40 PM   #5
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Great example of God as metaphor.
It's the metaphor for our limited perception that I find so intriguing. Throughout history mankind has had to break down successive doors to our understanding, that were based on our lazy assumptions. In quantum physics theories of extra dimensions abound, beyond fourth and fifth so it's essential to think outside the womb/box/limitations imposed by our knowledge and senses.
Whatever. It made me think and I wish I'd thought of it first
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:23 AM   #6
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We can be pretty sure mothers exist. It's harder to tell if gods exist, and how many, and which, and where, and why, and just what is a god, anyway? Much uncertainty...
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Old 03-15-2018, 01:18 PM   #7
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It's the metaphor for our limited perception that I find so intriguing. Throughout history mankind has had to break down successive doors to our understanding, that were based on our lazy assumptions. In quantum physics theories of extra dimensions abound, beyond fourth and fifth so it's essential to think outside the womb/box/limitations imposed by our knowledge and senses.
Whatever. It made me think and I wish I'd thought of it first
I have a suggestion, if I may? It's very serious to the core of many people for various reasons. I'd like to suggest try NOT thinking about it so much. Let your actions and motives speak for themselves until you decide what type of beliefs within you are behind those actions and motives. No one but you can make that decision but you.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:33 PM   #8
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Here is a read.

If you do not know whom Saint Paul is I would read up on him first. Talk about a wake-up call!

Gives reach out and touch someone a whole new meaning.

http://nazarene-friends.org/pubs/thedead/009.php
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:35 PM   #9
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"And this too shall pass". Wonder who said that? Father, are you there?
Yeah. What you want?
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:37 PM   #10
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Much uncertainty...
Only to lowly humans.
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:30 PM   #11
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This story reminds me of the allegory of the cave. I read it in philosophy class years ago and maybe scratched the surface of understanding it.

Story goes that we see shadows and think they are real, but they’re not real, they’re only shadows, and if we’d turn our heads to look behind, if we’d change our perspective, then the truth, the reality, would be revealed.

Or something like that.

I don’t know. What I do know is I like the idea of a benevolent force (God?) intervening on my behalf a whole hell of a lot more than the idea that I’m totally fucking batshit crazy.

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Old 03-26-2018, 09:11 PM   #12
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Thumbs up

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Originally Posted by AlotLikePsyche View Post
This story reminds me of the allegory of the cave. I read it in philosophy class years ago and maybe scratched the surface of understanding it.

Story goes that we see shadows and think they are real, but they’re not real, they’re only shadows, and if we’d turn our heads to look behind, if we’d change our perspective, then the truth, the reality, would be revealed.

Or something like that.

I don’t know. What I do know is I like the idea of a benevolent force (God?) intervening on my behalf a whole hell of a lot more than the idea that I’m totally fucking batshit crazy.

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Old 03-26-2018, 09:12 PM   #13
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^I don’t get it.
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:40 PM   #14
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^I don’t get it.
Where's the fun in that? You're not the only one that's batshitcrazy.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:02 PM   #15
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Pascal's Wager

The subject and discussion are complex matters that have confounded (or not) many very intelligent people over the centuries. I often boil it down to reading about 'Pascal's Wager', about which you can google for information. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal**7s_Wager

It comes down to this: you wager your life as to whether God exists:



The point being that the 'smart money' is to believe in God, you have nothing to lose.

You may not agree with it, but it has always made me think...and placed my bet on believing.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:38 PM   #16
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I will make a sticker from this diagram and put it in front of my bible

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Originally Posted by txgent101 View Post
The subject and discussion are complex matters that have confounded (or not) many very intelligent people over the centuries. I often boil it down to reading about 'Pascal's Wager', about which you can google for information. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal**7s_Wager

It comes down to this: you wager your life as to whether God exists:



The point being that the 'smart money' is to believe in God, you have nothing to lose.

You may not agree with it, but it has always made me think...and placed my bet on believing.
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Old 03-30-2018, 07:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txgent101 View Post
The subject and discussion are complex matters that have confounded (or not) many very intelligent people over the centuries. I often boil it down to reading about 'Pascal's Wager', about which you can google for information. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal**7s_Wager

It comes down to this: you wager your life as to whether God exists:



The point being that the 'smart money' is to believe in God, you have nothing to lose.

You may not agree with it, but it has always made me think...and placed my bet on believing.
Thanks for the links. I'm not sure that placing bets or deciding to accept one religion or another is quite the right terminology. You can decide that eating more vegetables is a good idea, because research shows it is good for you and what do you have to lose by doing so? But belief isn't a decision: it's something more profound than that. You can't decide to love someone any more than you can reach a conclusion about life after death by philosophical discussion.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:13 AM   #18
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I am by far the least religious person that I know (personally), but I am spiritual. I don't believe in a God, I don't believe in the Bible. I am happy for those that do though, and I respect their decision to have those beliefs.

I do believe there is something after this life. Energy levels which lack physical form as we know it. The evidence I've seen and felt of near death experiences, out of body experiences and the newest studies being released about the neuro-chemical changes and impulses that fire when a person is clinically dead are all pointing towards evidence of something after this state of existence.

In terms of here and now I believe that when something feels bad it is wrong, when something feels good it is right. I am guided by my conscience and not by the 10 commandments.

I have also lost a number of loved ones in my life, and I have seen the most inhumane suffering possible in the sick and injured - even if God does exist in the form the Bible depicts, I would rather go to hell than say I worship a being that has allowed such suffering. That however is just *me* though. I am sure there are many millions of people that will disagree with me and they are entitled to. *shrug* Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txgent101 View Post
The subject and discussion are complex matters that have confounded (or not) many very intelligent people over the centuries. I often boil it down to reading about 'Pascal's Wager', about which you can google for information. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal**7s_Wager

It comes down to this: you wager your life as to whether God exists:



The point being that the 'smart money' is to believe in God, you have nothing to lose.

You may not agree with it, but it has always made me think...and placed my bet on believing.
The thing about "believing" is that it doesn't mean much without actions. Take the Christian religion for example; "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith (belief) but does not have [good] works? Can faith (belief) save him?...Thus also faith (belief) by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (From James chapter 20)

And there are billions of humans who have other forms of religion. So what is one to believe about the existence of "God" that would assure that passage into Heaven? Is a mere profession of belief - just to play it safe- really all there is? The truth is that if there is a God, humans are not equipped with the adequate sensory organs to see, hear or touch such a being. It is, and will remain a mystery.

Christ said: "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:24) But now I have to ask myself, what is "spirit" and what is "truth"?

The point being; This isn't as simple as Pascal's Wager might make it appear. I've spent most of my adult life pondering and studying this, and the questions can go on and on. But it is also somewhat intuitive to many humans that there is something more. Perhaps that inner intuition is the "spirit" within seeking the "Spirit"? But the one thing that makes real "belief" evident is a desire to be a better, kinder, more loving and compassionate person...and that can only be a good thing for mankind.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:36 PM   #20
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Faith by the carrot and the stick.

Pass, thanks.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by txgent101 View Post
The subject and discussion are complex matters that have confounded (or not) many very intelligent people over the centuries. I often boil it down to reading about 'Pascal's Wager', about which you can google for information. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal**7s_Wager

It comes down to this: you wager your life as to whether God exists:



The point being that the 'smart money' is to believe in God, you have nothing to lose.

You may not agree with it, but it has always made me think...and placed my bet on believing.
That is some seriously fucked up logic. That's like a chick only letting you put just the tip in. Sure, ya got there but it really wasn't worth the effort and the payoff is shit.

Plus, god doesn't exist and you're a moron if you think otherwise.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:47 PM   #22
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That is some seriously fucked up logic. That's like a chick only letting you put just the tip in. Sure, ya got there but it really wasn't worth the effort and the payoff is shit.

Plus, god doesn't exist and you're a moron if you think otherwise.
<<<<<<The GB is that way.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:52 PM   #23
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Here is a read.
Stuff it.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:57 PM   #24
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<<<<<<The GB is that way.
You talk a lot but don't say much.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:37 PM   #25
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You talk a lot but don't say much.
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