How to train a sub?

I am not sure that this is the right path to go down but after twenty five years of marriage our sex life has hit some stumbling blocks. It's not that it has gotten boring. I still love every inch of her body and enjoy those rare occasions when we have sex but she no longer gets much pleasure out of it. By her own admission and although that admission makes me feel that I am to blame she swears that it is not because of me and that she still loves my body at least in theory if not in practice.
Depression, stress, shitty job and other life issues have worn her down and caused her to give up hope and her enthusiasm for life.
Some recent experiences have caused me to wonder if what I need to do is take more control of the situation and guide her and train her to enjoy our life and our sexuality again.
I am not terribly familiar with the D/s world and wonder if any of the kind caring people here could give me any advice or suggestions on how to proceed down this path or even if I should.
Thank you all.

Blue has she shown any interest in a control dynamic?

Is she interested in erotica? Can you start by sharing stories and see what she enjoys?

You can't train someone into a D/s relationship without first establishing the desire and will and that comes from communication

Also are her depression and anxiety being dealt with?

When did you guys last have a vacation with no pressure, when did she last see herself as a sexual being?

First: d/s is not a magical fix for relationships and it's not a magical fix for depression.

Bluespark said:

I am not sure that this is the right path to go down but after twenty five years of marriage our sex life has hit some stumbling blocks. It's not that it has gotten boring. I still love every inch of her body and enjoy those rare occasions when we have sex but she no longer gets much pleasure out of it. By her own admission and although that admission makes me feel that I am to blame she swears that it is not because of me and that she still loves my body at least in theory if not in practice.
Depression, stress, shitty job and other life issues have worn her down and caused her to give up hope and her enthusiasm for life.

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D/s doesn't fix that. Therapy, meds, self help, stress management etc. helps with that.

Some recent experiences have caused me to wonder if what I need to do is take more control of the situation and guide her and train her to enjoy our life and our sexuality again.

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Has she expressed that she wants to be submissive to you? You can't "train" someone to enjoy life. You can be a supportive partner and try to ease the load though.

I am not terribly familiar with the D/s world and wonder if any of the kind caring people here could give me any advice or suggestions on how to proceed down this path or even if I should.
Thank you all.

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If d/s is something you want then discuss it with her. If she wants to go down this path then you take the next step together.

What you need is take her to a counselor / psychiatrist, NOT introduce her to D/s.

People who are depressed can be MANIPULATED into being submissive when they aren't by nature, and it will make them WORSE, not better, because it's fundamentally against their nature. They are not submissive by nature, as it's a temporary phase. Trying to "train her" in that phase can do permanent damage to her psyche and is tantamount to emotional abuse.

In the best D/s relationships, D is dominating AND caring, and relishes in the transfer of power from the sub.

This does NOT describe your situation. You are NOT a trained D and she's NOT being a sub that is voluntarily surrendering her power to you. She's just DEPRESSED and being apathetic.

DO NOT DO IT. She needs a shrink, not a kink.

I think people sometimes somehow miss the fact that a lopsided power dynamic in a relationship can be a particularly emotionally damaging thing. Even in kink (presuming you and your partner are actually into it and just haven't read too many black and white BDSM quotations on tumblr) you can very rarely just throw D/s at a problem and make it better. I highly doubt it would be healthy for a down/depressed person to suddenly start trying to force their thought patterns to conform to a given standard...Never mind the ethical grey-to-dark-grey area of doing it sans informed consent...

MeekMe said:

First: d/s is not a magical fix for relationships and it's not a magical fix for depression.

D/s doesn't fix that. Therapy, meds, self help, stress management etc. helps with that.

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+1 to everything MM said.

Thank you all for your insights.
Yes her depression is being treated. I am not trying to control her in that sense or to force her to be happy. Or to harm her in anyway or risk exacerbating her illness.
I don't know if I could say for certain that she is entirely submissive by nature but she does have some sub tendencies. I think. As I said this is new territory for us. She is a pleaser by nature and wants to make people happy and serve them. This desire to please makes her feel very bad and weak and helpless when she tries to please people who can't be pleased like her boss and some of her coworkers.
I thought, and seem to be wrong in that thought, that exploring the D/s world might help her to take ownership of and feel empowered her will to please which is one of her most beautiful qualities among her many beautiful qualities.

How old is she?

I'm 55 and menopause has totally, totally fucked with my sex drive. I'm submissive and no amount of guidance or control would have helped. I needed (need) medication.

It's great you're thinking outside the box in trying to help her:

I thought, and seem to be wrong in that thought, that exploring the D/s world might help her to take ownership of and feel empowered her will to please which is one of her most beautiful qualities among her many beautiful qualities.

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I'm not sure you're exactly wrong -- switching up your dynamic, giving her more input, being clear with communiciation could be just one part of helping her, along with therapy, meds, etc.

Submission does not always have to be about sex. It is about service, about serving others. Which, you say, is a natural part of her personality. That's a great starting point right there. And yet, her sense of self cannot come from what others think. She can't control what other people think. It's a horrible hamster wheel if she keeps trying harder and harder and just keeps feeling beaten down.

I talked to someone earlier about the Four Agreements, which has shaped some of my submissive self. It's a nifty little book (called the Four Agreements!!) - it's a little mystical. Keeping these in mind has helped me get through some uncertain moments in terms of being too hard on myself:

1. Always do your best.
2. Always be honest.
3. Never make assumptions.
4. Do not take things personally.

So, if I've done the first three -- if I've done my best, if I've been honest and if I've had clear communications, NOT making any assumptions and someone is STILL unhappy with me, I try not to take it personally.

As a side note, it's not like I read this book and suddenly I was a confident, awesome submissive But it helped.

Good luck. You're an awesome husband.

Well done.

Blue,

I'm impressed with both your first question, and the way you took the advice offered. I also like how invested and how in love you obviously still are.

I think that most of what has been said here is right on the money, and it's hard for me to add to it. What I can offer is some insight from someone who has been in this position, and has started to move past it.

All I'll say on the forums is that it is absolutely worth it, and if you're as committed to your wife as you seem to be, I'm sure you can both make it work. It wasn't easy, it was bloody scary some of the time, but it was worth it.

I'm more than happy to talk to you in PM or email if you like.

Good luck, and all the best.

Ghost

Unfortunately, there is no guaranteed magic bullet for the kind of thing you're talking about, and while exploring her submissive tendencies may offer something new, there are obviously deeper issues at hand I'm sure you're well aware of. It sounds more like she is struggling with outside things that are influencing your sex life, as opposed to that being the issue in and of itself.

That being said, by all means, see if introducing this dynamic is something she is interested in. If nothing else, this may open up other avenues of discussion that could theoretically lead to some type of resolution or epiphany. You never know. The biggest things you'll find emphasized here in terms of any sort of BDSM relationship, and also the main thing I personally advocate, is both communication and trust. It's obvious you care very much and are willing to try whatever you can to make her happy, which automatically means you are already there in terms of understanding and support. Get her talking, in whatever capacity you can, listen to her and see what she says. Though, I have a feeling I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, so I wish you both the best. Come back and let us know how it goes.

Bluespark said:

Thank you all for your insights.
Yes her depression is being treated. I am not trying to control her in that sense or to force her to be happy. Or to harm her in anyway or risk exacerbating her illness.
I don't know if I could say for certain that she is entirely submissive by nature but she does have some sub tendencies. I think. As I said this is new territory for us. She is a pleaser by nature and wants to make people happy and serve them. This desire to please makes her feel very bad and weak and helpless when she tries to please people who can't be pleased like her boss and some of her coworkers.
I thought, and seem to be wrong in that thought, that exploring the D/s world might help her to take ownership of and feel empowered her will to please which is one of her most beautiful qualities among her many beautiful qualities.

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I am going to disagree with the nay sayers. If you wanted to try experimenting with a vibrator, why not? Ice, why not? Feathers, why not? And I think the same about D/s. That said, I'm trusting you won't attempt to beat the shit out of her or go hard-core in any way I think you should follow your instincts and introduce new elements into your sex life for excitement.

All that said, I think this might help your sex life, but not necessarily your relationship. People compound the two, but they are not one and the same. I agree that she should get assistance with her other issues, as you said she is.

I think you should go ahead cautiously, with discussion and consent. Start slow and enjoy

Collar_N_Cuffs said:

I am going to disagree with the nay sayers. If you wanted to try experimenting with a vibrator, why not? Ice, why not? Feathers, why not? And I think the same about D/s. That said, I'm trusting you won't attempt to beat the shit out of her or go hard-core in any way I think you should follow your instincts and introduce new elements into your sex life for excitement.

All that said, I think this might help your sex life, but not necessarily your relationship. People compound the two, but they are not one and the same. I agree that she should get assistance with her other issues, as you said she is.

I think you should go ahead cautiously, with discussion and consent. Start slow and enjoy

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This is more my take than not as well.

Of course... the caveats of caution do apply.

THing I'm concerned about is: If she's already depressed and worn out by her work/life experiences, won't you dominating her just wear her out more? Like, she may be already feeling like she doesn't have enough control over her life, and you getting on top of her in bed can kinda be a bad thing.
It can be a good thing too, I'm just saying that you need to be really-really careful about that.
And yes, I agree completely with what have been said above - you can't train someone to be a sub if they are not interested in the first place. You can train someone submissive to be a BETTER sub, and that's a fun road for both, but you can't change someone into a submissive, and it would be basically abuse, is what I'm concerned about.
DS is not just a game. It's a very serious thing and a lot of commitment that takes from both of you. Do you have a capacity? Only yourself and your wife can answer that, and you both need to answer that.

Think your steps carefully. Talk before acting.

Reading your post, I would thing she needs love and care MORE than shee needs control taken from her. She needs help, maybe you should provide it out of bed first? Instead of taking control, start by taking some of the responsibilities off of her. Some work around the house, some kids related stuff, maybe? It piles up.

And don't think I'm completely against it. I'm just throwing in things for you to consider. If you are both interested, than bringing in kink into life will help, at the very least by providing emotional outlets, fun experience and everything. If Kinky things can generate happy and positive emotions - then they WILL be beneficial, especially for a depressed person. Just, again, be careful and be gentle. Take baby steps - as you are both inexperienced, don't try to go for a lot of things at once. It's better to get a feel for it step by step.
If you can take the role of caring, supportive dominant that she can unwind with - that would be great for her. I don't think she needs the type of strict controlling master that punishes for misdeeds.

Hope it'll be okay for you two!

Bluespark said:

....Depression, stress, shitty job and other life issues have worn her down and caused her to give up hope and her enthusiasm for life. Some recent experiences have caused me to wonder if what I need to do is take more control of the situation and guide her and train her to enjoy our life and our sexuality again....

Click to expand...

Bluespark said:

...I don't know if I could say for certain that she is entirely submissive by nature but she does have some sub tendencies. I think. As I said this is new territory for us. She is a pleaser by nature and wants to make people happy and serve them. This desire to please makes her feel very bad and weak and helpless when she tries to please people who can't be pleased like her boss and some of her coworkers...

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The underlined passages seemed to jump out as I was reading your beautiful plea for some suggestions to help the one you love. I think you're on the right track...up to a point. It does seem that there is room for you to take on the burden of a Dom, but not so much in the intimacy part of life as in the everyday parts. You said it yourself; "...guide her and train her to enjoy our life again...". I've left the sexuality part off for now, as I think that might be helpful for her - (who needs more stress? And bedroom performance can be stressful.) The best sex seems to occur spontaneously when we are most relaxed (at least for me and mine). And, she is currently very much not relaxed.

Question then is; How to get her back to a relaxed enjoyment of the beauty of life? Perhaps, as the Dom, you can "dominate" the conversations to focus on the good parts of life. When she slips into negativity, try to focus back on the precise moment you two are living and find the good again. Don't dwell on the bad past or the bad future...just the current moment where you are safe and sound. Lead her into forming a pact with you that when either person begins down a negative path, correct the other and drop the negativity. It won't happen overnight, but over time there is a chance the light of happiness might overpower the clouds in her mind. (and it is always good to remember that we do create most of our own reality most of the time...think of yourself as a dominant art instructor pushing her to focus more on the light than the darkness.) Perhaps by starting your role as 'Dom" in these areas, her life might become more tuned again to be the natural "pleaser, server, and follower" that is more in keeping with the person you think she is. And the hope is, once she is free to enjoy the treasure of life again the intimacy you crave will unfold unbidden and unforced.

In regard to bosses and coworkers; As the Dom, perhaps you can help her to be a little less of a "pleaser" by instilling an attitude of; It's just a job, and those a-holes don't mean anything to our lives. After all, how important is this job? Surely not worth one's health.

In regard to life; Someone above mentioned "mystical" as it relates to D/s. The reason for that correlation is because so much of the power of D/s is in our mind. Life is the same way I think...how we think about life really does shape the life we live. Not really the time or place for more on this, but I hope you understand what I'm trying so clumsily to say.

Sparky, darlin'... I love how you are trying to help your wife, it says so much about you!

All of the previous comments have wisdom and good advice, but the one above is what made me really nod my head.

When life is stressful, it's great to have someone to talk to, someone who shares their insight and encourages in a calm, cool way. The more she can relax in that area, the more she'll relax in the bedroom.

You can't fix her. You can try to fulfill needs she has, and maybe those needs can be fulfilled with D/s. Talk to her, get her permission, and enjoy your relationship. Don't go at this with the mindset of training her to fix her problems. You can train her to suit your needs better if she's on board with that. You can even provide structure and training to help her meet some of her own goals. What you can't successfully do is impose your own goals for herself and her life without her buy in.

SpunThings said:

You can't fix her. You can try to fulfill needs she has, and maybe those needs can be fulfilled with D/s. Talk to her, get her permission, and enjoy your relationship. Don't go at this with the mindset of training her to fix her problems. You can train her to suit your needs better if she's on board with that. You can even provide structure and training to help her meet some of her own goals. What you can't successfully do is impose your own goals for herself and her life without her buy in.

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+1 to that.

It definitely sounds more like she needed to be ordered to take better CARE of HERSELF, not training her to be a sub.

While I respect the fact that you're trying to help your wife, D/s is definitely not the answer, imo.

If she's on antidepressants, some of those definitely curb ones sexual drive. If she has lost all interest in sex then you have to be patient and look for non-sexual ways to inspire her. If she can't stand the thought of being touched sexually, then you have to find ways to inspire her mentally and emotionally without her thinking that you're looking for sex.

It's not an easy task, but "Where the mind goes, the body follows."

I wish you and your wife the best.

Other than turning to kink have you tried to just help relieve some of the stress that you can for her? You said one major stressor is her boss and coworkers, there's not much you can do about her work but what about the home? Before we started kink and had kids I worked a very stressful high intensity job. I loved my job, but it took a lot out of me. Then coming home to make dinner, do the dishes, do the laundry, and all the rest of the adult responsibilities made me a not so happy person and I would lash out and just not be in the mood. I didn't understand how he could walk right past the overflowing garbage can and not blink an eye, or add another plate to the sink and not wash it. I didn't communicate my frustration and would just do everything in anger until I exploded without warning and completely blindsided him. I wasn't a communicator, he wasn't observant, we fought a lot. I was a stressed out mess and that really dried up my libido. And I resented him for not helping me with other chores and responsibilities. I still loved him, I still found him attractive, but the stress and anger disconnected me. When we finally TALKED about these things, he realized why I was so withdrawn and bitchy and became more attentive and started pulling his weight when it came to our home responsibilities. It was a huge relief to come home and have the trash already gone and the dishes washed. Or the laundry folded and the floors swept. Or even coming home to do those things together.

I really rambled on here... But my point is, maybe talk to her and see if there's anything you can do for her to remove some of her stress where you can.