Article on cuckold fantasies

Let me state up front, I'm married but we are not sexually monogamist, although we don't have an open marriage. I'll leave you to figure that out all by yourself.

This is just your opinion, we all know the saying about opinions. Many couples are not sexually monogamist and still have successful long term relationships, many sexually monogamist couples get divorced.

Only between fifteen to eighteen percent of divorce cases are due to sexual infidelity. In cases involving cheating by the wife, most cheated because her relationship was already broken, staying in her marriage do to children and financial reasons. In most of these cases the wife had an affairs for emotional intimacy and support rather than sexual satisfaction, although I'm sure the sex was a bonus.

Research done about the success of AshleyMadison.com found that most women who used the site did so because of her emotionally broken marriage. Who knows maybe some marriages were saved because Ashley Madison allowed the wife to discreetly seek the emotional and physical intimacy she needed while getting her marriage back on track. Maybe some marriages were saved because her husband was just a god awful fuck but she loved the guy anyway. It could be she's married to a man like you, one who believes in serial monogamy, but she can't live that life, Ashley Madison gives her a way to stay sane and keep her marriage.

Preach your morals all you want dude but it doesn't mean we all have to live by your rules. In my opinion there are times when cheating is morally acceptable, just like there are times when lying is the only moral choice.

Just a side note to some of you here about the term Real Men.
According to surveys and the experiences of many of my straight and bi girlfriends, not all 'real men' sexually satisfy their wives. Put that in your pipe and smoke it the next time you complain about not getting enough sex at home.

The only thing I will say about your post is...

A woman will get emotional support from a cheating dog she met on ashleymadison? Are you kidding?

Sex sure. Who knows maybe some decent conversation, but emotional intimacy?

Got news for you. Half if not more of the men posting on AM are single. They say they are married just so they can use the site as a sex hookup which is what it is.

Emotional security, oh, man.
 
Now that person thinks the cheat will now be loyal to them? Explain that to me.

Once a cheat always a cheat.

LC, I won't talk you out of your position, but I can't agree with it either. Sex is only a piece of a full marriage. There are those who cheat, their spouses find out, they work out their differences and live happily-ever-after. You're approach feels like an A.A. approach: once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Like I said, I don't believe anyone can talk you out of your position but just the same, I would suggest you have a blind spot here.

Some lifestyle people specifically refuse to party with married people unless both partners are involved because they don't want to party with someone who is cheating. I can respect that decision, but then again - I can respect the other lifestyle people take a different attitude: Whatever's happening in your marriage is your business.

Concerning "cheating" in its most classical definition: at best it's a sign of a troubled person and at worst it could be sign of a mental illness.

There's a reason why I'm no longer friends with the guy who claimed it was okay for men to cheat because men understood how to have sex for the fun and sport of it. Once he spouted that bit of moronic advice, I had little respect for him as a person.
 
LC, I won't talk you out of your position, but I can't agree with it either. Sex is only a piece of a full marriage. There are those who cheat, their spouses find out, they work out their differences and live happily-ever-after. You're approach feels like an A.A. approach: once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Like I said, I don't believe anyone can talk you out of your position but just the same, I would suggest you have a blind spot here.

Some lifestyle people specifically refuse to party with married people unless both partners are involved because they don't want to party with someone who is cheating. I can respect that decision, but then again - I can respect the other lifestyle people take a different attitude: Whatever's happening in your marriage is your business.

Concerning "cheating" in its most classical definition: at best it's a sign of a troubled person and at worst it could be sign of a mental illness.

There's a reason why I'm no longer friends with the guy who claimed it was okay for men to cheat because men understood how to have sex for the fun and sport of it. Once he spouted that bit of moronic advice, I had little respect for him as a person.

You're not talking me out of a position at all.

You keep coming back to people for whom sex is not the be all end all. Or people in the lifestyle which of course cheating does not really exist(well yes it does, they usually always agree on when who they are playing with)

I am speaking of "cheating" in a situation where one person is monogamous and it is important to them. The other sleeps around behind their back. That is cheating.

Those people will always cheat because it means nothing to them. Unfortunately for the other party the cheats never fall in with other cheats. they want the good wife/husband at home and have their sleazy fun too.

And cheating is not just about the act of fucking. Adultery is breach of promise and trust. It goes far beyond the sex.

I have no issue with men/women who want to have fun and slut around. BUt I have issue when they "take someone with them" If you want to fuck anything on two legs so bi it, but don't lead someone on to think otherwise.
 
Policywank? It would appear you missed LC's point and his sarcasm. It would appear to this reader that you and he are in agreement about the value of cheating.

I would agree with LC's dismissal on men who cheat as a way of expressing their virility. I once had a friend who believed men cheating wasn't the same as women cheating because men understood how to cheat "for the fun and sport of it." (His actual words to me.) In his shallow, world-view: cheating women too often got their emotions wrapped up into the act.

Not sure I would agree with LC's later thought: "In reality real men keep it within their marriage and their wives do as well because a real man can satisfy their wife." Only because my wife and I have been in the lifestyle for quite some time and we have several friends who are, too. Suggesting marriage requires monogamy doesn't fly with me. However, I DO believe marriage requires honesty and its value extends far beyond the bedroom.


I got the sarcasm thanks. I just don't agree with LCs other simplistic notions about marriage and pre-ordained order.
 
I got the sarcasm thanks. I just don't agree with LCs other simplistic notions about marriage and pre-ordained order.

I have no preordained order. If it feels good do it.

I have not called out a non monogamous couple as doing anything wrong.

All I call out is that if one person wants monogamy and thinks they have it and the other is not living up to that then that is cheating and wrong.

And to repeat what I said it is not just about the act of sex, its trust and breach of it and sex may not be the be all end all in a marriage, but trust most certainly is.
 
I do agree cheating is wrong. It isn't just the dishonesty and breach of promise, but effectively theft of time.

Intentionally hiding anything that you know another person would want to know and would affect the way they conduct their lives is questionable. Doing it with someone who has put their trust in you is reprehensible.

For me this is the standard and there needs to be a lot more than personal fulfillment or financial security at stake to do that to someone else.

However, the actual reasons for cheating are often more complex than can be represented in absolute and moralistic simplifications. Emotions are intense, weakness exists, life is challenging and mistakes happen. Those aren't excuses for cheating. They aren't reasons to let you off the hook to carry-on cheating. However, they are part of reality and the factors that drive us to do many things we shouldn't.
 
I do agree cheating is wrong. It isn't just the dishonesty and breach of promise, but effectively theft of time.

Intentionally hiding anything that you know another person would want to know and would affect the way they conduct their lives is questionable. Doing it with someone who has put their trust in you is reprehensible.

For me this is the standard and there needs to be a lot more than personal fulfillment or financial security at stake to do that to someone else.

However, the actual reasons for cheating are often more complex than can be represented in absolute and moralistic simplifications. Emotions are intense, weakness exists, life is challenging and mistakes happen. Those aren't excuses for cheating. They aren't reasons to let you off the hook to carry-on cheating. However, they are part of reality and the factors that drive us to do many things we shouldn't.

With this we get into "levels" of cheating. Was it a one time deal during a bad patch of a marriage? Was there a lot going on?

Or is it a case of anytime someone looks their way they are with that person?

One of my wife's friends got divorced last year after 12 years of marriage.

She discovered that he had himself not one, but two little craig's list hookers on the side and saw each of them a couple of times a month.

When she confronted him as to why he would do it, his excuse?

He liked to use verbally degrading language and his wife didn't like it. He also wanted anal sex and she would not provide it.

Good grounds? I would think the majority of people would say no, but who knows?
 
I have no preordained order. If it feels good do it.

I have not called out a non monogamous couple as doing anything wrong.

All I call out is that if one person wants monogamy and thinks they have it and the other is not living up to that then that is cheating and wrong.

And to repeat what I said it is not just about the act of sex, its trust and breach of it and sex may not be the be all end all in a marriage, but trust most certainly is.


All your points are laced with simplistic assumptions and opinions that you preordain as fact to support your point.

Any non-functional sexual relationship means the man is not a real man. That is a given.....a pre-ordained fact that negates all possible need to seek sexual satisfaction outside the marriage. Never mind the complexity of keeping a relationship strong and exciting for decades.

People who are not monogamous want to slut around and fuck anything on two legs like there is no option in between.

All men on Ashleymadison are cheating dogs.
 
All your points are laced with simplistic assumptions and opinions that you preordain as fact to support your point.

Any non-functional sexual relationship means the man is not a real man. That is a given.....a pre-ordained fact that negates all possible need to seek sexual satisfaction outside the marriage. Never mind the complexity of keeping a relationship strong and exciting for decades.

People who are not monogamous want to slut around and fuck anything on two legs like there is no option in between.

All men on Ashleymadison are cheating dogs.

If their wives do not know they are on there, then yes they are. Same for the women on there.

And look if you're a cheat and need to justify yourself you don't need to do it to me on a porn board.

because I'll give you one more preconceived notion.

You've cheated in the past and will do it again.

I can smell it in your tone and justifications.

And that's fine, you have to make you happy no one else.

Enjoy your AM membership.
 
All your points are laced with simplistic assumptions and opinions that you preordain as fact to support your point.

Any non-functional sexual relationship means the man is not a real man. That is a given.....a pre-ordained fact that negates all possible need to seek sexual satisfaction outside the marriage. Never mind the complexity of keeping a relationship strong and exciting for decades.

People who are not monogamous want to slut around and fuck anything on two legs like there is no option in between.

All men on Ashleymadison are cheating dogs.

Christ almighty, that's a very hard stance to take. It's also based on emotion and not reality.

Here's a situation. A husband and wife love each other. Through a set of bad situations, the husband ends up HIV positive. He still loves his wife, but he simply will not put her in a situation where she could contract the virus, so all sexual contact with her, from him, is now out.

That's a choice he's made, because he loves her. However, he also realizes that just because his sex life is dead, it doesn't mean hers has to be. He gives her permission to play on the side, as long as she respects certain rules - he doesn't want to know about it and she must never rub his nose in it or bring it home. They are still man and wife and always will be, she just gets to scratch an itch on occasion.

So, he's not a 'real man' now, is he? I'd have to say he's probably more of a man than most could be, for understanding her situation, the fact that he's allowing this to happen and actively encouraging her to get what she needs so she doesn't go off the deep end.

I'm not going to get into why he's HIV positive - that's immaterial to the point being made. The point is, he cannot do what needs to be done, recognises that and allows her the freedom to get it, as long as she still respects the sanctity of their marriage.

Now, if she puts up an ad on Ashely Madison, is she a 'cheating dog'? If she is, then I'd say you've got some serious issues you need to deal with, because I think most people would recognise this is a very hard situation for everyone to deal with, and these two are trying to deal with it the best they can. Most people would, I think, understand what is going on here, and being allowed to stray on occasion is actually a recipe to keep them together.

If you _do_ recognise that, then ok. We've got an exception to this blanket "Everyone on a site like Ashely Madison is a scum bag" - we've got extenuating circumstances now. It's not a blanket statement. So at that point, it's about where that line is for everyone, and where that line will be will be different for everyone. But what it's not at that point is a One Rule For Everyone Irregardless of status.

The point I'm trying to make here is that this is not a binary thing for every situation, regardless of how it's portrayed that way. Sure, for lots of people, it is just about betrayal and someone getting their jollies at the expense of their partner. That's for sure. But not everyone, and treating everyone that way just goes to show how inflexible that thinking can be.
 
Christ almighty, that's a very hard stance to take. It's also based on emotion and not reality.

I read Policywank's posting as the last three paragraphs being a tossing of LC's hard and narrow interpretations back at him. And, yes, you bring up circumstances that shoot holes in his hard and narrow interpretation of the issue.
 
I have no preordained order. If it feels good do it.

I have not called out a non monogamous couple as doing anything wrong.

All I call out is that if one person wants monogamy and thinks they have it and the other is not living up to that then that is cheating and wrong.

And to repeat what I said it is not just about the act of sex, its trust and breach of it and sex may not be the be all end all in a marriage, but trust most certainly is.

"And Bingo was his name!! Oh!" to quote Ford Fairlane. I have 2 exes because they thought "Foresaking all others" had an expiration date. I wouldn't go outside the relationship because I wasn't aware of the "let's bang others clause." Funny thing, is both had the audacity to accuse me of getting some on the side. They just never told me when I supposedly had time to get it....or from whom.
 
I reject your quaint notion that marriage requires exclusivity as being as antiquated as prohibiting two women or two men from marrying. Society at-large doesn't get to pick my positioning in the bedroom, whether she's on top or I am and who might be watching, helping or stuck between us.
I'm saying that only if you're sure that you want be 100% invested in someone, should you marry. The precise composition of that marriage might vary from one arrangement to another, but it's still a major commitment, at least to me. I understand that people might have arrangements that might permit them to have sex outside the marriage (polygynous, polyandrous, and other polygamous marriages are obviously different).

To me, the inherent value of the marriage contract exceeds the bedroom play. One would be better served finding a true life partner with whom they can grow old together. A partner with whom they can laugh, share adventures and know that at least one person will always fight by their side, cover their back or jump in front and take one in the chest as the slings and arrows of life requires. This sort of fierce loyalty and deep friendship is what I have found with my wife and what is extended to hers. We're partners in business and in sin. I would not expect her to refuse the joy of another person's company any more or less than she should expect me to refuse that joy as well.

Note how I worded that, please. "refuse the joy of another." A friend that makes her laugh doesn't threaten my sense of humor. A dining companion whose conversation gives her reason to pause and consider life doesn't lessen our ability to have deep and meaningful conversations. Indeed, in both examples, her experience may well enrich our time together when she comes home with a new joke to tell, thought to ponder or technique to share in the bedroom.

I don't believe our marriage is a "one-size-fits-all" proposal. However, suggesting we're somehow less than happy because our marriage isn't always monogamous is a folly. You may take your puritanical morals and enjoy them yourself. Meanwhile, please don't push your vision of which God we should love and how we should love Him on us. And when it all ends, we'll find out whom was right and whom was wrong.

For this couple - our faith in each other, our trust in each other and our openness remains our strengths.
Polyamorous relationships are a choice... but I find it difficult enough to balance work, girlfriends, my family, and other friends. The more people you add to the mix, the more chances there are for things to get fucked up. Things work as long as everyone is happy. Things go to shit the minute someone isn't happy. What happens when someone doesn't want to abide by an agreed upon limitation? What happens when someone wants to change the rules and someone else doesn't want to? (Democracy in relationships sounds great except when you are the trampled-upon minority.) What happens when somebody isn't happy playing second fiddle? What happens when people take sides in a conflict?

I'm a pretty simple guy, and I don't like ambiguity in my relationships. Whomever I date has to deal with having only a fraction of my time as it is. What happens if I add kids? Or another lover? Even if I could convince her to accept it, how much of a relationship do we have when her time with me is measured in minutes per day, rather than hours?

If a marriage is openly open and both parties are fine with the other playing then that is not infidelity or cheating.
Yes... but we're only human. The more people you add, the more things that can get fucked up.

Its when one partner strays and plays behind the others back that it is cheating. And of the man knows his wife plays and is not overly happy but deals with it then we have a cuck.

If the husband strays and the wife knows and isn't happy....we have the natural order of things according to a certain type of ignorant male.
Technically, if one strays, the other is cuckold/cucquean, irrespective of knowledge or how it is 'dealt with'. Just saying. :p

What I have never understood is this and we have all seen it.

A man or woman fooling around with a married person then that married person leaves their spouse to be with the person they were cheating with.

Now that person thinks the cheat will now be loyal to them? Explain that to me.

Once a cheat always a cheat.
Statistically, second and third marriages have a higher chance of failure. Why? Because people don't change (very much). I saw this with one family friend who got divorced because he cheated. He remarried. About seven years later, he got divorced... because he cheated. Let's say that I wasn't surprised. He simply never changed.

If you can make it work, more power to you. Society is set up to _not_ allow this, but society is changing and that's as it should be. That which doesn't not change stagnates.
Change can be good, bad, both, or indifferent. The law of gravity hasn't changed... and we should be glad for that. (Technically, the scientific laws have been refined as our body of knowledge grows and becomes more precise.) Scientific theories change, but the model of scientific method has not changed very much. Rot is change, but it isn't good change if it's in the walls of your house. Shifting ground is change, but it isn't good change if it's under your foundation. Both the communists and fascists promised change in Europe and Asia. I don't think you will find many who would say that the changes that they wrought were entirely good. ;-)

Let me state up front, I'm married but we are not sexually monogamist, although we don't have an open marriage. I'll leave you to figure that out all by yourself.

This is just your opinion, we all know the saying about opinions. Many couples are not sexually monogamist and still have successful long term relationships, many sexually monogamist couples get divorced.

Only between fifteen to eighteen percent of divorce cases are due to sexual infidelity.
Infidelity was involved in over half of divorces, even when it was not the primary cause.

Percent of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional: 41%
Percent of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 57%
Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 54%
Percent of married men who have strayed at least once during their married lives: 22%
Percent of married women who have strayed at least once during their married lives: 14%
Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker: 36%
Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips: 35%
Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity with a brother-in-law or sister-in-law: 17%
Average length of an affair: 2 years
Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered: 31%
Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%
Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68%
Percent of children who are the product of infidelity: 3%
(Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, January 1, 2014)

In cases involving cheating by the wife, most cheated because her relationship was already broken, staying in her marriage do to children and financial reasons. In most of these cases the wife had an affairs for emotional intimacy and support rather than sexual satisfaction, although I'm sure the sex was a bonus.
I would not necessarily agree. Yes, most cases of female infidelity that I know of involved emotional infidelity, often leading to sexual infidelity. However, many cases involved boredom (husband was at work and the children, if any, were at school). A good number involved coworkers or internet chat/e-mail partners (particularly the case with stay-at-home wives). When when men or women spend more time with people other than their spouse, whether it is in person or virtually, it is a formula for infidelity.

A 1983 survey found that 60% of men and 57% of women were unfaithful at some point in their life during a relationship (not necessarily marriage). (This is very close to the numbers of the 2014 survey.) 31% of men and 16% of women had sexual affairs with no emotional involvement. 13% of men and 21% of women had emotional affairs with no sexual involvement. However, 20% of both men and women had affairs that were both emotional and sexual. So half of the men who had affairs, did so without emotional involvement. However, only a third of women who had affairs, did so without emotional involvement. Keep in mind that most men and women (53% and 73% respectively) consider flirting to be cheating, though few consider pornography to be cheating (6% and 16% respectively).

Research done about the success of AshleyMadison.com found that most women who used the site did so because of her emotionally broken marriage. Who knows maybe some marriages were saved because Ashley Madison allowed the wife to discreetly seek the emotional and physical intimacy she needed while getting her marriage back on track. Maybe some marriages were saved because her husband was just a god awful fuck but she loved the guy anyway. It could be she's married to a man like you, one who believes in serial monogamy, but she can't live that life, Ashley Madison gives her a way to stay sane and keep her marriage.
Most people (~59%) who cheat are never caught... or at least, they claim not to have gotten caught (83% men and 95% women). But that is likely due to the degree of infidelity (most consider flirting to be cheating, but it has very low risk attached to it), the circumstances (cheating that stays online or restricted to 'sexting' never requires you to leave home--or wherever you were supposed to be), and the frequency (most affairs are brief, with 29% lasting a week or less, 47% a month or less, with 65% ending it before six months). However, if you do get caught, the chances of the marriage surviving the long term are very low. Infidelity played a part in 54% of divorces, according to a 2007 survey. (A survey of marriage counselors found that most marriages survived infidelity in the near-term, but most of them ultimately failed in the long-term.)

Preach your morals all you want dude but it doesn't mean we all have to live by your rules. In my opinion there are times when cheating is morally acceptable, just like there are times when lying is the only moral choice.
According to one survey, 23% of women who cheated believed that they were justified in cheat, while 18% of men felt they were justified in cheating. However, only 13% of cheaters were glad that they cheated, with 49% feeling guilt, 39% regretting their decision, 32% feeling more stressed, and 25% feeling sadness because of their affair. Cheating generally doesn't bring happiness to the cheater.

Just a side note to some of you here about the term Real Men.
According to surveys and the experiences of many of my straight and bi girlfriends, not all 'real men' sexually satisfy their wives. Put that in your pipe and smoke it the next time you complain about not getting enough sex at home.
From the 2007 survey, here are the top reasons for actually having a sex with someone else after committing to their partner (just 19% of males and 12% of females):
Men (44%) wanted more sex, (40%) more sexual variety (e.g. sexual boredom), and (38%) more satisfying sex. (Yes, that's right. Just because the man orgasms, doesn't mean that it was a good fuck.)
Women (40%) wanted more emotional attention, (33%) reassurance of their desirability, or (20%) because they fell in love with someone else. (Interestingly, women (87%) were more satisfied with sex with their committed partner than men (76%)!
Less than half (42%) of men and women were actually physically attracted to their lover! (Once again suggesting that cheating is more about opportunity than than desirability.)
Women (11%) were more than twice as likely to cheat in revenge than men (5%). ("Hell hath no fury....")
Finally, women were most likely to have one sexual affair, while men were twice as likely to have multiple affairs.

The only thing I will say about your post is...

A woman will get emotional support from a cheating dog she met on ashleymadison? Are you kidding?
What someone wants versus what they get are two different things.

Sex sure. Who knows maybe some decent conversation, but emotional intimacy?
Men use affection to get sex. Women use sex to get affection.

Got news for you. Half if not more of the men posting on AM are single. They say they are married just so they can use the site as a sex hookup which is what it is.

Emotional security, oh, man.
Interestingly, about 76% of the 2007 survey respondents indicated that they were 'too much in love' to be unfaithful and 20% of those having an affair claimed to have stopped their affair due to love of their partner/spouse. However, it's interesting to note that the number two reason for not having an affair was the risk of losing their partner/spouse (68%).


Concerning "cheating" in its most classical definition: at best it's a sign of a troubled person and at worst it could be sign of a mental illness.
I agree.

I am speaking of "cheating" in a situation where one person is monogamous and it is important to them. The other sleeps around behind their back. That is cheating.

Those people will always cheat because it means nothing to them. Unfortunately for the other party the cheats never fall in with other cheats. they want the good wife/husband at home and have their sleazy fun too.
Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it, too.

And cheating is not just about the act of fucking. Adultery is breach of promise and trust. It goes far beyond the sex.
I agree and most people would probably agree with you. In the 2007 survey, most (73% of women and 53% of men) consider flirting (including sexy e-mails and texts) to be cheating. Most (about 66% of both men and women) consider sexy chats and webcams to be cheating. Many (21% of women and 12% of men) consider fantasizing about others to be cheating.

I have no issue with men/women who want to have fun and slut around. BUt I have issue when they "take someone with them" If you want to fuck anything on two legs so bi it, but don't lead someone on to think otherwise.
Exactly! Full disclosure from the beginning is important. That's the reason why my ex-girlfriends never hated me (though two of them stalked me for a while). I never lied to them and promised (explicitly or implicitly) that I was looking to make the relationship a lifetime commitment.

Jezzaz, Lovecraf68's point was that if the marriage is believed by at least one partner to have been convened as a monogamous arrangement, it is despicable for the other partner to feel free to cheat. Your contrived example was faulty. There are goddamn toys for goodness sake! But even if one partner is unable to even do that (quadriplegic with HIV?), then if the other partner, if he or she feels so deprived, should communicate honestly with the disabled partner. If both agree that the non-disabled partner should be able to find satisfaction elsewhere, then that's fine. If they don't agree, then the non-disabled partner should file for divorce, not sneak behind his or her spouse's back.
 
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@ProxyAccount: Your statistics show that fidelity is not the norm in relationships. People fuck around. I don't know if MOST people in MOST societies fuck around, but I wouldn't be surprised.

My own experience: As my first marriage fell apart, my spouse and I openly fucked whomever we wanted (and could entice). Our lovers were often from our circle of mutual friends. My second marriage has been entirely monogamous, resisting several strong temptations.

What were the relationship differences? Mostly economic, with much more financial dependence in the current marriage than in the first. In my first marriage, we had little, thus there was nothing to lose. My current marriage is more substantial and we would be fools to throw away what we have.

As I mention in WHAT IS CHEATING?, people adopt (and adapt) various relationship rules. We all have our own reasons for (in)fidelity, and those reasons might not agree with anyone else's rules. Humans and human sexuality are too complex for one set of fixed rules. Rules are like engineering standards: they're fun because there are so MANY of them to choose from!
 
@ProxyAccount: Your statistics show that fidelity is not the norm in relationships. People fuck around. I don't know if MOST people in MOST societies fuck around, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Keep in mind that, as the surveys pointed out, what precisely constitutes cheating varies significantly. For goodness sakes, fantasizing and porn is considered cheating by many! Flirting was considered cheating... yet many here would probably disagree. At the very least, I suspect that most would not classify flirting as an "affair". Regardless, when it comes to brass tacks, that is actual sex, whether oral or otherwise, the numbers drop down to 19% for men and 12% for women. So if a person's definition of "infidelity" is sex in person, then most people don't cheat. On the other hand, if a person's definition of "infidelity" includes fantasy and pornography as cheating, then very, very few people are faithful to their partners.

My own experience: As my first marriage fell apart, my spouse and I openly fucked whomever we wanted (and could entice). Our lovers were often from our circle of mutual friends. My second marriage has been entirely monogamous, resisting several strong temptations.

What were the relationship differences? Mostly economic, with much more financial dependence in the current marriage than in the first. In my first marriage, we had little, thus there was nothing to lose. My current marriage is more substantial and we would be fools to throw away what we have.
Interestingly enough, your experience follows many studies. People in the lower income brackets and those that live in apartments, particularly subsidized or government-owned, had higher rates of infidelity than those living in upscale neighborhoods. Cost-benefit certainly does appear to come into play, at least subconsciously.

As I mention in WHAT IS CHEATING?, people adopt (and adapt) various relationship rules. We all have our own reasons for (in)fidelity, and those reasons might not agree with anyone else's rules. Humans and human sexuality are too complex for one set of fixed rules. Rules are like engineering standards: they're fun because there are so MANY of them to choose from!
Cheating might be like art (I know it when I see it), but it carries such emotional weight (and consequences) that many simply prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to what they publicly consider to be cheating... even if that means that many will run afoul of their own rules at some point.
 
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I think I follow LC's definition - if you know the other person expects behavior X and you do Y, knowing they would not approve, you are cheating. Has nothing to do with what X and Y are, only the expectations between the committed parties.

Never promise behavior you think you can't live up to, never demand more than you realistically expect.

Asking a healthy person to never think sexually about other people - unrealistic. Asking them not to act on it - realistic.
 
People talk out their asses about fidelity. Most people will cheat if the circumstances are ripe for it. Where folks fuck up is when they bring shit home... disease, babies, addictions, etc.
 
I read Policywank's posting as the last three paragraphs being a tossing of LC's hard and narrow interpretations back at him. And, yes, you bring up circumstances that shoot holes in his hard and narrow interpretation of the issue.

You are correct. I didn't mean to state those positions. I was listing some of the rigid narrow-minded notions that LC imbeds in his arguments. When you list them in isolation they look particularly ridiculous don't they?

Just like his assertion that my comments indicate I have cheated and am destined to do so again. What a presumptuous putz.
 
Christ almighty, that's a very hard stance to take. It's also based on emotion and not reality.

Here's a situation. A husband and wife love each other. Through a set of bad situations, the husband ends up HIV positive. He still loves his wife, but he simply will not put her in a situation where she could contract the virus, so all sexual contact with her, from him, is now out.

That's a choice he's made, because he loves her. However, he also realizes that just because his sex life is dead, it doesn't mean hers has to be. He gives her permission to play on the side, as long as she respects certain rules - he doesn't want to know about it and she must never rub his nose in it or bring it home. They are still man and wife and always will be, she just gets to scratch an itch on occasion.

So, he's not a 'real man' now, is he? I'd have to say he's probably more of a man than most could be, for understanding her situation, the fact that he's allowing this to happen and actively encouraging her to get what she needs so she doesn't go off the deep end.

I'm not going to get into why he's HIV positive - that's immaterial to the point being made. The point is, he cannot do what needs to be done, recognises that and allows her the freedom to get it, as long as she still respects the sanctity of their marriage.

Now, if she puts up an ad on Ashely Madison, is she a 'cheating dog'? If she is, then I'd say you've got some serious issues you need to deal with, because I think most people would recognise this is a very hard situation for everyone to deal with, and these two are trying to deal with it the best they can. Most people would, I think, understand what is going on here, and being allowed to stray on occasion is actually a recipe to keep them together.

If you _do_ recognise that, then ok. We've got an exception to this blanket "Everyone on a site like Ashely Madison is a scum bag" - we've got extenuating circumstances now. It's not a blanket statement. So at that point, it's about where that line is for everyone, and where that line will be will be different for everyone. But what it's not at that point is a One Rule For Everyone Irregardless of status.

The point I'm trying to make here is that this is not a binary thing for every situation, regardless of how it's portrayed that way. Sure, for lots of people, it is just about betrayal and someone getting their jollies at the expense of their partner. That's for sure. But not everyone, and treating everyone that way just goes to show how inflexible that thinking can be.



As sr71plt points out I wasn't making those points. I was listing the litany of stupid narrow minded points coming from LC.
 
People talk out their asses about fidelity. Most people will cheat if the circumstances are ripe for it. Where folks fuck up is when they bring shit home... disease, babies, addictions, etc.

This is actually a very important point. Most of us at one point or another in a relationship and in the right circumstances are vulnerable to cheating. I now this sounds kind of harsh but if nobody wants to fuck you or you live on your own in the wilderness it isn't real hard to avoid temptation now is it.

There are an awful lot of pious people who might not be so perfect if they found themselves on a deserted island with Brad Pitt or Megan Fox.
 
As sr71plt points out I wasn't making those points. I was listing the litany of stupid narrow minded points coming from LC.

Oh. Sorry.

I blocked sr71plt months ago, so never see anything he posts. Life is easier that way.
 
People talk out their asses about fidelity. Most people will cheat if the circumstances are ripe for it. Where folks fuck up is when they bring shit home... disease, babies, addictions, etc.

True; everybody lies about sex.

And true; sometimes adultery is only prevented by accident. (If my mate hadn't called just then...)

And true, but incomplete. Some of the shit they bring home and spread around includes attitudes and neuroses.

Case in point: One of my kin was a VERY senior corporate executive who made 10x more than her techie husband. He screwed around and was caught. They are still together, mostly because divorce would cost them too much. But she keeps him on a VERY short leash now, and he treats all the rest of the family pretty much like shit, and he's working on drinking himself to death.

Let's play Let's Suppose, hey? Let's Suppose... that they were in France or Italy, or elsewhere where puritanical standards don't rule, instead of Texas. Someplace where the culture provides marriage loopholes, where it's fairly accepted that people of means keep lovers. Someplace with different rules. Freddy Fucker's affairs would have been an unspoken norm. Big fucking deal.

If you don't like the rules, play a different game.
 
If you don't like the rules, play a different game.

I think this, for me, is the root of the issue.

The fact is, rules for marriage are variable. Lots of people would like them to not be, but the reality is that the rules for a marriage that works is specific to the couple.

If you go into it, knowing you are going to have an open marriage or swing or be polyamorous, then I don't honestly believe it's my place to tell you no. I can certainly have an opinion on it, and talk about how i don't think they'll survive, but I've been wrong before (I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken). Either way, it's not my place to impose my rules and morality on other people.

Now, having said that, civilization is the shared agreement of rules to live by - we all agree and share them, and that's how we are able to live together and move forward. And monogamy in marriage is one of those shared rules, even though it's not ratified at a legal level. We stand up and say vows that say we will be true to each other and so on. But it's a civilized expectation, not a rule or a requirement. And by that, I mean, if you and your spouse have already agreed on different rules for yourselves, then that's fine too.

My point is that the rules within a marriage are not absolute, and are defined by the people in that marriage, not you or me or social norms, even though 90% of people will actually subscribe to those norms.

But, in the case where one party unilaterally changes those rules, either with reluctant permission or behind the others back, well that's cheating. The changing of the rules of the game where I had no idea that was coming is wrong, dis-respectful and that's when a relationship breaks down. However, if we both know and agree, well, that's up to us. Not anyone else or their religion or their social mores.

I do agree that certain choices, even when both parties enter into it knowingly, are more likely to result in the relationship failing, but I also understand that this is their choice. It's not for me to attempt regulate or spout.
 
whatever the opinion is this thread really struck a nerve proving it is a hot bed topic.

Also proves my theory that no one ever wins an argument, ever. Especially on the net.

I say this to people all the time.

Once your mind is set on a theory(obviously you can win an argument on who hit more home runs in a certain year, that is provable) no one will change it.

No Christian will ever make a Jew say, "Hey you're right Christ was the messiah, shit we missed the boat!'

So for the most part people just spin wheels and try to drive their point home, its human nature.

Everyone has valid points here as cuck is not a cut and dried thing.

Only opinion I will adamantly give no credit to is that cucks have to change what they call themselves because of what the dictionary says.

That idea is so ludicrous that I should bang my head on the desk for even crediting it with the effort I took to mention it again.
 
definitions

Ya, I think we can drop the definitions debate.

before you know it someone is join to say unicorns don't really exist
 
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