Shame and humiliation in sex

[AG31]

Dude, that's not "ad-hominum", it's just the truth. I'm describing a sensation I got when I read it. It's not an attack on you at all.


I wasn't suggesting that.


Power is everywhere. If you're going to claim it's imposed upon "sexuality" by "society", you have to get more specific, because society is historical and not a monolith–which society, where, when, and how, has imposed power upon sexuality? You'd find different examples for every place in time and history.

What you're saying can't be limited to discrimination, exploitation, or even prohibitions on certain sexual actions. For example, one might say that a confessional booth exercises power by calling you forth to confess your perversions and then typo-graphing them. One might even say this is a microcosm of a regime in a society that operates this way in general. Sexuality isn't repressed there, it's talked about all the time! Confess, confess, confess! That's what our society looks like to me, now.

The fact that an act is enjoyable for all of its participants doesn't mean that power isn't operating in the action. Power doesn't always feel bad when it's exercised on you, or when it's invested in you. To put it simply, power struggle does not imply toxicity.

Nothing I'm saying is reflecting any kind of personal "baggage" I have. It's actually kind of disappointing that nobody pointed out how insightful and mysterious I sounded, but that's Lit for you.

I'm still not getting it. So you agree that sex can be mutually pleasurable and still a power situation. You're saying everything is a power situation? If that's the case, then the discussion doesn't seem particularly appropriate to literotica. ?????

 

[AlexBailey]

Shame and humiliation are complicated for me.

It sounds strange to say it but as a queer kid growing up in a Catholic household, shame and humiliation are so familiar that they can feel somewhat comforting.

While this is true, there are times when S&H can be triggering and suffocating.

I think it mostly depends on the intention.

 

[submissa]

To me, there's a difference between shame and embarrassment, and there's also a difference between being shamed and feeling ashamed. Generally, feeling ashamed during sex means you either need to work on being sex-positive or that you are harming someone. I don't think a person can feel ashamed and have it be a wholly positive experience. That's jmo.

 

[MillieDynamite]

And yet, there are those who enjoy humiliation and thrive sexually when they are belittled. No, I don't get it, but it is out there.

To me, there's a difference between shame and embarrassment, and there's also a difference between being shamed and feeling ashamed. Generally, feeling ashamed during sex means you either need to work on being sex-positive or that you are harming someone. I don't think a person can feel ashamed and have it be a wholly positive experience. That's jmo.

 

[Djmac1031]

And yet, there are those who enjoy humiliation and thrive sexually when they are belittled. No, I don't get it, but it is out there.

I've said it before... probably somewhere earlier in this thread lol... but I don't get it either.

I struggle as it is with my self esteem and the idea that someone could find me attractive.

Last thing I need is to be berated during sex. Um, no thanks.

Not kink shaming. Just... don't get it.

 

[AG31]

I've struggled with this thread all afternoon. The topic is of great interest to me, but I don't know how to articulate what I think. These quotes are helpful:

To me, there's a difference between shame and embarrassment, and there's also a difference between being shamed and feeling ashamed.

And yet, there are those who enjoy humiliation and thrive sexually when they are belittled. No, I don't get it, but it is out there.

Last thing I need is to be berated during sex. Um, no thanks.

Almost all of my stories involve things being done to my MC (always male, but that's probably not important) that could be called shaming or humiliating. Exhibiting him naked, raping him, bringing him to public ejaculation, etc. But he's never subjected to belittling or berating comments. If he were they would roll off like water off the duck's back. He doesn't give his tormenters that kind of respect. But all the things that are done to him result in intense arousal. He always has dignity. Here's where it's helpful to point out the "difference between being shamed and feeling ashamed." I've never known what to call the activity that I describe in my stories.

It is the case that this "dynamic" is not found very often at all in erotica. If anyone knows of such stories, please give me the reference. I put "dynamic" in quotes because I don't like the connotations that it has of BDSM culture, heavy with relationships.

So, again, can anyone describe more efficiently what I've lumbered through here?

 

[AG31]

To me, there's a difference between shame and embarrassment, and there's also a difference between being shamed and feeling ashamed. Generally, feeling ashamed during sex means you either need to work on being sex-positive or that you are harming someone. I don't think a person can feel ashamed and have it be a wholly positive experience. That's jmo.

For sure there's a difference, but can you describe what that difference is?

 

[Djmac1031]

For sure there's a difference, but can you describe what that difference is?

Shame is when you're made to feel bad for doing something, or being something, by someone else.That "something" may or may not be "bad" or "wrong," only seen that way by some and their viewpoint has influenced the individual in one way or another to feel like they have broken some rule or committed some "sin" in the eyes of those judging them.

Embarrassment is more something we inflict on ourselves, although what we might be embarrassed about can again be influenced by society and those around us.

Many people would find it "embarrassing" to be seen nude, or caught masturbating or having sex, etc.

Although frankly the only reason we find these things "embarrassing" is because we're taught to be.

 

[submissa]

And yet, there are those who enjoy humiliation and thrive sexually when they are belittled. No, I don't get it, but it is out there.

Humiliation can exist without necessarily inducing shame (that is, making someone ashamed). If someone were to treat me badly in front of other people, I would find that humiliating, but why would that make me feel ashamed when I'm not the one being an ass? I'm not personally into being belittled or degraded, but if I were, I'd be unlikely to feel ashamed for engaging in consensual interactions involving such a kink.

For sure there's a difference, but can you describe what that difference is?

Shame is externally imposed. Being ashamed happens internally either as a response to being shamed or because one is doing something inconsistent with one's own values and beliefs.

I find the concepts of ego syntonic and ego dystonic helpful in differentiating. From wikipedia:

egosyntonic refers to the behaviors, values, and feelings that are in harmony with or acceptable to the needs and goals of the ego, or consistent with one's ideal self-image. Egodystonic (or ego alien[1]) is the opposite, referring to thoughts and behaviors (dreams, compulsions, desires, etc.) that are conflicting or dissonant with the needs and goals of the ego, or further, in conflict with a person's ideal self-image.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Again, I was speaking of a certain type of person, not any single person. One suby guy I know was ordered by his mistress (not me) to go ask for the key to the restroom at a convenience store, and while the attendant handed it to him, piss himself. Then say, never mind and leave the store. He did; it thrilled him, but that humiliation, by its very nature, was shameful that he must do such a thing.

Humiliation can exist without necessarily inducing shame (that is, making someone ashamed). If someone were to treat me badly in front of other people, I would find that humiliating, but why would that make me feel ashamed when I'm not the one being an ass? I'm not personally into being belittled or degraded, but if I were, I'd be unlikely to feel ashamed for engaging in consensual interactions involving such a kink.

 

[submissa]

Again, I was speaking of a certain type of person, not any single person. One suby guy I know was ordered by his mistress (not me) to go ask for the key to the restroom at a convenience store, and while the attendant handed it to him, piss himself. Then say, never mind and leave the store. He did; it thrilled him, but that humiliation, by its very nature, was shameful that he must do such a thing.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that some people get off on humiliation. All I'm saying is that when someone feels ashamed, it is not an entirely positive experience.

There are plenty of things one person would describe as inherently shameful that another person sees differently. I see good reason to be ashamed in the scenario described as the attendant did not consent to being involved in inflicting sexual humiliation. It's really no different from people who expose their genitals and get charged with indecent exposure.

 

[MillieDynamite]

If I remember correctly, they said the attendant laughed for a minute, then realized she was the one who'd be mopping it up. The Domma went in first and left after he'd done his peepee exhibition. Have I ever said how I find BDSM quite strange?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that some people get off on humiliation. All I'm saying is that when someone feels ashamed, it is not an entirely positive experience.

There are plenty of things one person would describe as inherently shameful that another person sees differently. I see good reason to be ashamed in the scenario described as the attendant did not consent to being involved in inflicting sexual humiliation. It's really no different from people who expose their genitals and get charged with indecent exposure.

 

[MeganFachs]

My husband and I have discussed this a lot though not as deep as a therapist might. There are some things he doesn’t want to dissect. But last year his sex time fantasies of me with another man became reality after he urged me to really do it if I wanted. S&H is definitely part of what gets him very aroused in that situation. He is also a crossdresser/sissy and S&H factors into that at times as well. We read somewhere that many if the physiological responses to shame and humiliation are close to those of arousal so the two can get “wound around” each other and one can trigger the other. When he first started wearing panties he was ashamed and that was puberty so we think that helped fuse them.

 

[P0peye]

My husband and I have discussed this a lot though not as deep as a therapist might. There are some things he doesn’t want to dissect. But last year his sex time fantasies of me with another man became reality after he urged me to really do it if I wanted. S&H is definitely part of what gets him very aroused in that situation. He is also a crossdresser/sissy and S&H factors into that at times as well. We read somewhere that many if the physiological responses to shame and humiliation are close to those of arousal so the two can get “wound around” each other and one can trigger the other. When he first started wearing panties he was ashamed and that was puberty so we think that helped fuse them.

I can personally attest to the connections between shame and humiliation and arousal. As a teen, I became my best friend's personal cocksucker because his cock was so much bigger than mine was. I would be consumed with lust and arousal leading up to and during the act of being very aggressively throat fucked by him. I would jerk off immediately afterward which was followed by feeling of extreme shame and embarrassment for having allowed him to do this to me. I would vow to never again suck his cock. This feeling would subside within minutes and be replaced by the same oral cravings that compelled me to suck his cock earlier. This pattern would be repeated daily until I began to associate shame with arousal as I do now.

 

[nice90sguy]

In spite of being somewhat aroused by some aspects of humiliation, I never really understood the distinction between that and my main kink, which I call "disempowerment".

It took the VN game "Nothing is Forever" to really make it clear to me. The MC in that game is a sexologist, who explores his and other people's kinks, while also explaining them to people -- his explanations are really clear and cut to the core elements behind them.

I was struck by the scene where the MC has a humiliation session, which involves cross-dressing -- he makes it clear that he's not into cross-dressing at all, but rather, it's that he gets turned on by the humiliating aspect of being MADE to wear women's clothes. A nice distinction there.

 

[GrushaVashnadze]

shame and/or humiliation

In fiction, sometimes, shame and humiliation can be hot as fuck. Some of my favourite examples:

the final section of https://www.literotica.com/s/nat-and-sandy-pay-the-rent-ch-03

and the last micro in https://www.literotica.com/s/super-short-story-collection

and the last paragraph in https://literotica.com/s/young-cunts-act-03

Though I would baulk at either inflicting or receiving it in real life.

And that is about as deeply as I have thought on the matter...