Yes, the rich really do pay their “fair share” of income taxes

[HisArpy]

Then you don't know, because if they could charge the higher price they already would have, or they are just poor, poor businessmen which does happen.

Because in your world businessmen just pick a number out of the air as the price of their products or services.

Meanwhile back in reality when pricing a product or service it usually involves including the cost of goods sold, overhead and other business expenses, taxes, wages, profit...

 

[AlexBailey]

Yup, you really are that dum...

For the rest of those following this thread; ask yourself where the actual dollars used to pay the taxes of "the rich" come from.

Ultimately $31 trillion came from the national debt, much of it owed to the Federal Reserve who conjured it out of thin air.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Because in your world businessmen just pick a number out of the air as the price of their products or services.

Meanwhile back in reality when pricing a product or service it usually involves including the cost of goods sold, overhead and other business expenses, taxes, wages, profit...

In my world they charge the highest price customers will pay, they may even artifically short supply to create more demand. The rest of those things are factors but not nearly the factor you want to pretend they are when it comes to taxes and wages.

 

[HisArpy]

In my world they charge the highest price customers will pay, they may even artifically short supply to create more demand. The rest of those things are factors but not nearly the factor you want to pretend they are when it comes to taxes and wages.

Lol, what color is the sky in your world? I ask because NONE OF THAT works in real business. Well, not if you want to actually stay in business.

It also doesn't address the issue of where the physical dollars that are used to pay said taxes come from.

Or did you think that I overlooked your moving the goalposts into fantasyland to avoid that part?

 

[HisArpy]

Ultimately $31 trillion came from the national debt, much of it owed to the Federal Reserve who conjured it out of thin air.

The Fed isn't a "business." Trying to compare it to one is just stupid.

 

[AlexBailey]

The Fed isn't a "business." Trying to compare it to one is just stupid.

You’re right, it’s not much of a business in the way they aren’t producing any sort of consumer product in any competitive way. yet they ‘earn’ 10% of all US currency as their ‘take’ as it comes into existence. That’s a lot of fucking money, better not tax those rich guys, they work hard becoming the wealthiest people in the world.

They’re also doing pretty well ‘earning’ interest on the US national debt. If we’re unable to keep up with those interest payments the US might default and they might lose out on repayment of the phantom money they lent us.


Right now they’re raising interest rates to try to ‘cool down’ the economy to help control inflation. Right or wrong, the intentions of their policy will have a slowing effect on business, costing some jobs.

 

[HisArpy]

You’re right, it’s not much of a business in the way they aren’t producing any sort of consumer product in any competitive way. yet they ‘earn’ 10% of all US currency as their ‘take’ as it comes into existence. That’s a lot of fucking money, better not tax those rich guys, they work hard becoming the wealthiest people in the world.

Right now they’re raising interest rates to try to ‘cool down’ the economy to help control inflation. Right or wrong, the intentions of their policy will have a slowing effect on business, costing some jobs.

The Fed isn't a business. The Federal Reserve's job is to initiate policies per the law and administrative directives to control inflation and currency values. That they're doing their job isn't in any way a negative and they can't be blamed for doing their job even if you need a handy boogieman because you don't understand what they're doing when it comes to the US monetary system and supply.

The Fed also has zero to do with who pays taxes or tax revenues received by the Gov.

 

[AlexBailey]

The Fed isn't a business. The Federal Reserve's job is to initiate policies per the law and administrative directives to control inflation and currency values. That they're doing their job isn't in any way a negative and they can't be blamed for doing their job even if you need a handy boogieman because you don't understand what they're doing when it comes to the US monetary system and supply.

The Fed also has zero to do with who pays taxes or tax revenues received by the Gov.

I’m not sure why you seem to think we’re arguing here.

I’m just wondering if you will acknowledge that we’re paying interest to the FED while making no payments against a ‘principal’ of fiat currency that the fed has already taken 10% of for themselves.

How will the national debt ever be paid without collecting taxes?

Rather than ‘cooling’ the economy by raising interest, why not take it out in taxes? The lower end of the economy could continue to clip along while the upper end pays more in taxes.

It could go a long way to reducing the funds available for large investment groups from buying up real estate and raising the cost of living for everyone else.

 

[HisArpy]

I’m not sure why you seem to think we’re arguing here.

Because you keep bringing up the Fed in a conversation about taxes. Which are under the aegis of the IRS.

 

[AlexBailey]

Because you keep bringing up the Fed in a conversation about taxes. Which are under the aegis of the IRS.

How is the National Debt that is owed to the Fed going to get repaid without the involvement of the IRS?

IRS = the Internal Revenue Service

 

[HisArpy]

How is the National Debt that is owed to the Fed going to get repaid without the involvement of the IRS?

IRS = the Internal Revenue Service

That's an administrative policy decision and not a who-pays-taxes-and-in-what-amounts decision.

 

[AlexBailey]

That's an administrative policy decision and not a who-pays-taxes-and-in-what-amounts decision.

Okay, simple question:

How can the National Debt get paid without collecting it in taxes?

 

[Rightguide]

A capital gains tax indexed to personal income tax levels would go a long way towards correcting that imbalance.

But not before the gains are actually realized.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Lol, what color is the sky in your world? I ask because NONE OF THAT works in real business. Well, not if you want to actually stay in business.

It also doesn't address the issue of where the physical dollars that are used to pay said taxes come from.

Or did you think that I overlooked your moving the goalposts into fantasyland to avoid that part?

That is literally the way it works in the real world. The fact that you clearly don't live in it isn't my fault.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

 

[adrina]

And yet not at all in line when there was a booming and prosperous middle class. Go fig.

 

[JohnEngelman]

And yet not at all in line when there was a booming and prosperous middle class. Go fig.

Back then the top tax rate never got below 70%, and was often higher.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

 

[Bray123]

Back in the day the rich had tax discounts if they invested in their business; making it bigger or more profitable so that more people could be employed and pay taxes themselves.

Nowadays the rich get discounts because they're rich.

 

[AlexBailey]

Democrats = Tax & Spend, Tax & Spend, Tax & Spend, Tax & Spend, Tax & Spend!

What is the alternative to “tax and spend”?


Actually, while the GOP literally makes a joke out of things like “infrastructure week” the Democrats are left to find ways to fund the country’s needs.

Since the GOP won’t approve any taxes to spend on the country’s needs it has to be borrowed, but even then the GOP won’t lift a finger to help pay the debt, so we go along paying interest - the same way as if you only make payments to cover interest on credit card debt.

“Tax and spend” is how it should be, but the GOP refuses.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Technically we don't tax and spend, we create and destroy. Quantative Easing essentially "creates" so does labor. Labor just creates capital out of mostly thin air. I mean we can quibble all the way down to someone cut down the trees for habitat for humanity but at some point we have to stop.

At the same time we can and would tax just to remove money from the system and keep inflation in check even if we weren't building/maintaining a damn thing.

 

[HisArpy]

That is literally the way it works in the real world. The fact that you clearly don't live in it isn't my fault.

Spoken by someone who clearly has no idea what a Profit & Loss Statement is.

Every sale has various component as part of it's makeup. These are things like the cost of the goods sold, any rebates or discounts, the business expenses like rent, advertising, wages and commissions, utilities, insurance, TAXES and so on and on and on until you get to the bottom line of what was left over from the sale after you deduct all those things.

So, before you decide to sell something, even your services, you have to estimate those costs. (This is why there are jobs for "estimators" for contractors/builders) and then add in your desired profit on top of that. That number is what the customer will pay.

The dollars received from that customer pays those things, including the taxes you're going to owe.


Raising taxes on "the rich" will only increase the estimated cost of the goods or services to the customer. But stupid people who follow memes instead of logic will always believe what they're told as long as what they're told has a catchy slogan like "Tax The Rich" and it's aimed at someone else instead of them.

 

[Sean Renaud]

No actually we've seen the numbers and the things you are pretending work just aren't how they actually do. ITs fine. Taxing the rich will work just fine.

 

[AlexBailey]

Spoken by someone who clearly has no idea what a Profit & Loss Statement is.

Every sale has various component as part of it's makeup. These are things like the cost of the goods sold, any rebates or discounts, the business expenses like rent, advertising, wages and commissions, utilities, insurance, TAXES and so on and on and on until you get to the bottom line of what was left over from the sale after you deduct all those things.

So, before you decide to sell something, even your services, you have to estimate those costs. (This is why there are jobs for "estimators" for contractors/builders) and then add in your desired profit on top of that. That number is what the customer will pay.

The dollars received from that customer pays those things, including the taxes you're going to owe.


Raising taxes on "the rich" will only increase the estimated cost of the goods or services to the customer. But stupid people who follow memes instead of logic will always believe what they're told as long as what they're told has a catchy slogan like "Tax The Rich" and it's aimed at someone else instead of them.

Aren’t you the guy who’s trying to convince everyone that our system isn’t stacked to benefit the wealthy?

Now you’re saying it’s inevitable?

 

[HisArpy]

Aren’t you the guy who’s trying to convince everyone that our system isn’t stacked to benefit the wealthy?

Now you’re saying it’s inevitable?

What benefit?

The poor pay less than 3% of the revenue received by the IRS, while the wealthy pay over 50%, so how is that a "benefit" when they're the ones paying for everyone else?

 

[HisArpy]

No actually we've seen the numbers and the things you are pretending work just aren't how they actually do. ITs fine. Taxing the rich will work just fine.

dudly, you really should STFU because it's become obvious that you have no clue about business, finance, taxes, or anything else to do with money except how to spend it unwisely while blaming the other guy for you not having enough of it.