Why capitalism doesn't and can't work

[REDWAVE]

Capitalism is an inherently unworkable system, for several reasons. First, the massive inequalities of wealth and income it generates create enormous social turmoil. Capitalist exploitation creates widespread resentment and rage among its victims. Secondly, the anarchy of capitalist production, which is geared not toward meeting human needs but rather serving the interests of corporate greed, creates dislocations in the providing of goods and services: bottlenecks, overproduction of some goods, and shortages of others. Thirdly, as the means of production become more and more developed, the rate of profit inevitably falls. As a result, capitalists are forced to constantly increase the exploitation of the workers, driving wages down to the subsistence level and even below, in order to continue to wring out profits. Fourth, capitalism is subject to periodic crises (the "boom/bust" cycle) which threaten the very existence of the system. Currently, we are in the "bust" phase of the cycle, in which the toiling and exploited masses are being forced to pay, through massive unemployment and poverty, for the speculative excesses of the 1990's, which benefitted mainly the rich.

Finally, capitalism inherently breeds racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., and ultimately war. The ruling class deliberately stirs up and perpetuates all forms of prejudice, all types of backward ideology, in order to divide and conquer the workers and the oppressed masses generally. As long as our capitalist masters can keep us divided and fighting among ourselves, we will be unable to unite against our common enemy-- them. Also, competition and rivalry among capitalist nations for control of the world's markets inevitably leads to war, especially during times of economic contraction. It is no coincidence that the global economy began collapsing in March, 2000, and war broke out in October, 2001. Now the war has intensified with Sharon's assault upon the Palestinians, and Bush's planned aggression against Iraq.

It is also no accident that as social programs are slashed, and poverty and misery increases, government spending on repression-- police, prisons, and the military-- increases. The connection between the two is so obvious that it need not be elaborated upon.

Only worldwide socialist revolution can rescue humanity from the hellish nightmare and bleak future being prepared for it by the capitalist ruling class.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Capitalism is an inherently unworkable system, for several reasons.

No it isn't. It's swell.

There. I just won the debate.

 

[Problem Child]

Redwave, I polled everyone in my household and we all decided you are the stupidest person on Earth.

The Yellow Lab thought maybe there were some people in a mental hospital in Latrobe, Pa. that might be dumber, but I gave her a chew toy and she agreed that you're the stupidest. She's easy that way.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Kiss Lenin

 

[BlazeofLife]

Redwave, I polled everyone in my household and we all decided you are the stupidest person on Earth.

The Yellow Lab thought maybe there were some people in a mental hospital in Latrobe, Pa. that might be dumber, but I gave her a chew toy and she agreed that you're the stupidest. She's easy that way.

You just became my hero.
that has to be one of the most inherently intelligent, albeit comedic, comments I've ever heard.
Bravo.

Blaze

Edited to add:
This is not sarcasm.

 

[A Desert Rose]

My God, you truly are a dope.

Where did the Soviet Union go?

 

[busybody..]

REDWAVE

What doesnt work......

IS YOUR MIND!

 

[Rodney King]

Redwave!! A thought!!


I don't know of any political system that has worked perfectly in humankind's recorded history. When you deal with any political ideology, political system and definately humans, you are dealing with all sorts of emotions and characteristics. Some are good and some are bad.

There are greed, egos, power, evilness, and many other factors that influence the humans that run these political systems/ideologies.

So no political system / ideology is going to be perfect as long as there are humans. All political belief systems / ideologies are only going to work as well as the humans that are involved in running them, and those systems that allow the most input from a democratically elected government.

I would much rather be living in a society where the people can affect and change the system peacefully when it strays off-course, than living in a system where all of the power is concentrated in the hands of a few.

I know of no communistic system that has existed on earth in recorded human history where it didn't eventually turn into a basic dictatorship. Or at best where the power was concentrated in the hands of a few select persons who could do what they wanted when they wanted. And the masses in those systems had very little power or control to change their governments.

I'm not going to say the USA's government is perfect, because it isn't. But at least under our form of government we have avenues and choices we can make to make changes in our government if we don't like it.

Is this easy? FUCK no!!! It can be very difficult. But at least I have the choice to voice my dissent, my displeasure and can attemp to change things without being shot on the spot because come despotic ruler decides he doesn't like what I'm expressing.

What makes you think any type of equitable political system is easy to obtain and then retain? It constantly requires extreme vigilance and responsibility on the part of every individual in a democratic society to make sure we don't lose the rights and freedoms we have, and that our ancestors fought and died fore.

We have to make our system work. It doesn't work all by itself. No form of government works by itself. To make our democracy work, requires each of us to remain educated on issures, to be vigilant and to take responsibility.

No, it is not easy! But at least I can choose to strive to make it work. I can make that choice. In your type of world, someone else would be making all of your decisions for you and you seem to be happy about that.

That tells me you don't want to have to try and be educated, responsible or remain vigilant. It tells me that you want to just go live your life and let someone else take responsibility for you.


Guess what, Redwave? I choose not to take responsibility for you........ you are going to have to do that for yourself, bud!!!!!!

 

[Ishmael]

Quite frankly the most poorly thought out, illogical, uninformed, and petulant rant I've seen from you.

Gongradulations, you've out done yourself once again.

Hey PC. I've trained my dog to lick his ass everytime I say "REDWAVE". It's a hoot. I'll have to video it.

Ishmael

 

[crysede]

Just to be querulous, I agree with REDWAVE.

In reality capitalism has never even come close to achieving the goals of capitalism in theory. I also think that that socialism is a better idea in theory than capitalism.

The problem is, in reality socialism has turned out to be worse than capitalism. I think at some point one has to admit human nature simply renders the socialist ideal impossible outside one's immediate social/family group. The fact is, people like power, people like to own stuff, and people don't mind exploiting others to achieve these goals. Unless we genetically engineer humans to make them amenable to socialism, we may as well cross pure socialism off the list of workable systems. The best we can do is probably a capitalist base, with a bit of socialism thrown in here and there to offset some of the problems of capitalism.

So anyway - the real question is not which system is better, but whether or not the wide-scale genetic engineering of humans would be a feasible, and/or cost effective, solution to the problems with capitalism.

 

[Starfish]

The only communism for fishy.... Why not Capitalize on such a good and free venture?

Look, we can all win! (just pitching my tent here)

There isn't a Capitalist alive that doesn't like to have a good time. There isn't a communist alive that doens't NEED to have a good time. SO? My answer is....


Let's get naked, paint ourselves in bright neon colors (except for me) and then we can dance around with flowers, preach about the failing economy being the result of Native American Philosophy and live in Tee-pees.


Okay?

See, then, because we live so low maintanence, we can then spend our work time getting together to fix up and better run down, impoverished areas, making them usable to the people again...

From this...

To this...

An inner city vegetable garden!

Then, after a hard day's work, we can celebrate as one people....

Humans.... Not separated by government and social classification..

True equals....


Look, Just so you know, these are my people. Really, so don't think this is all a total joke to me. I am a Rainbow and although I see the flaws in our social structure too, it is the first and only social movement to date, founded on organized disorganization. Yes, I know, it is like anarchy buckling in on itself, but the point is that it is more like anarchy squared. We take anarchy and extend it with social conciousness, and peaceable relations, and while always seeking the truth, we try, as a result of our consciousness, brining about betterment and positive change. It is founded on the principle that no one is exempt from the need to live free, and well, healthy and fullfilled,

I don't speak for everyone though. This is only my take on the family and to each it is different and that is our biggest reason to celebrate one another.

We have set race, creed, sex and any other ridiculous shit aside, and we like to get down to business.... Our setbacks are usually induced by outside influences, such as social prejudices against 'hippies', not our internal stratagies failing.

Bitching does nothing.

Get up and do something for fuck sake.

 

[Andreina]

Re: The only communism for fishy.... Why not Capitalize on such a good and free venture?

Let's get naked, paint ourselves in bright neon colors (except for me) and then we can dance around with flowers, preach about the failing economy being the result of Native American Philosophy and live in Tee-pees.

I like Starfish's capitalism.


We should build great statues to her showing the almighty Starfish reading a book that says on the cover "The Red Tent" *cough cough*

 

[SadnonMage]

Capitalism

Fourth, capitalism is subject to periodic crises (the "boom/bust" cycle) which threaten the very existence of the system. Currently, we are in the "bust" phase of the cycle, in which the toiling and exploited masses are being forced to pay, through massive unemployment and poverty, for the speculative excesses of the 1990's, which benefitted mainly the rich.

And whom was in control of the decision making office, The Presidency of the United States during 80% of the 1990's, a self-proclaimed socialist who tried like hell to take from the wealthy by way of the tax code a redistribute wealth, which inevitibly always fails every time it is done, causing the wealthy to find new ways to shelter their income(insert capital) so that they can use their money to generate more money by creating new businesses(insert JOBS) for people to be employed at to earn incomes.

AND yet REDWAVE fails to mention the 1980's which was a huge growth period for almost all levels of society. Trickle down economics (Reaganomics) worked for a lot of people of all parts of society. It allowed the wealthy to operate and create business without the penalties of being rich.

Find out about the real economic history of the US, before you rant cause with most of us you won't win, EVER.



SM

 

[Starfish]

There is the funny story about the benifits of Capitalism I'd like to tell.


Picture me driving down the highway with the red tent in a plastic bag, with "somone's" adress on a paper in the bag with it, on the way to school.

It was my intention to go mail it after class, but driving down the highway, the piece of paper, with the adress on it, got sucked out the window.

Well, being that I am a dipshit, I left the book and the little gifts I attached in the backseat for like four weeks and not once have I gone into my harddrive file and printed out the adress to do the job again, because I am a space-cadet.

I need a Mischka Anti Alien helmet.

See? Thank god that we have Capitalism because without it, Bill Muthafucking Gates would have not done his shit, and we'd not have the computers we have to communicate to people indirectly, by means of telling a story.


(A, I'll really try to do that tomorrow on my way in to school. Thank you for the much much needed reminder)

 

[scylis]

make love not war, maaaaan.

dude, i crave pudding cups. and doritos.

 

[Andreina]

I need a Mischka Anti Alien helmet.

'quickly attaching some pipe cleaners to a tin-foil helmet and decorating it with stardust glitter'


that's okay luv... I'll be living at that addy for a loooooooooong time

 

[Starfish]

dude, i crave pudding cups. and doritos.

See, I know hippies who eat that stuff. So? You can be a hippy and eat crap. You can be a hippy and work in a cereal factory if you want, or more if they'll hire you.

It is all a state of mind.

 

[Starfish]

'quickly attaching some pipe cleaners to a tin-foil helmet and decorating it with stardust glitter'


that's okay luv... I'll be living at that addy for a loooooooooong time

So arrival sometime next week is okay?


Yeah, I need that thing. Email it to me promptly, and psst...

Don't tell anyone... you knever no.

 

[scylis]

"dude, i crave munchies" is our (Alaska's) state motto.

didn't you know that?

 

[HeavyStick]

Hey PC. I've trained my dog to lick his ass everytime I say "REDWAVE". It's a hoot. I'll have to video it.

Ishmael

Hey you made a funny.

 

[The Squid King]

But capitalism does work. It has for hundreds of years, maybe not to everyones advantage, but it does work.

 

[Guest]

But capitalism does work. It has for hundreds of years, maybe not to everyones advantage, but it does work.

Exactly...for a privileged few.

About the redistribution of wealth through the tax code and welfare, seems to me that it has failed miserably, that is in the the redistribution of wealth arena. Since the inception of the welfare system, the very wealthy in our society have seen their assets and incomes increase at a rate totally disproportionate to the rest of us. If this is an example of how the tax code punishes the wealthy then I could use some of that punishment. Perhaps the hidden reason for the increase in the wealth of the privileged is the welfare system itself. Afterall, 99% of the money actually given out goes immediately back into the economy in the form of grocery purchases and other such necessities.

The Soviet Union was not a truly Socialist Democratic state. It was a tyranny with the economy controlled by a few select individuals and manipulated by them for their own gains. Rather like the US economy is becoming. The only difference is we call these men CEO's and Chairmen of the Board and worship them as if they were Jesus Christ incarnate. Wolves in sheep clothing more like it.

Let's bomb Iraq and ask for wage concessions. That should be the Republican mantra. Most of the Democrats too.

 

[The Squid King]

No other form of government or economic system has stood the test of time like capitalism.

Capitalism is a self correcting system, it is Darwinian, survival of the fittest.

I've seen the most ignorant people become rich. Only capitalism provides for a fluid system, where one can rise above his peers.

Enron is the perfect example of this, some people got rich, some people got poor, and some are going to go to jail for a long time. In the end, the system corrected itself.

Don't blame the system for this, blame the people who cheated the system.

 

[Ishmael]

Exactly...for a privileged few.

About the redistribution of wealth through the tax code and welfare, seems to me that it has failed miserably, that is in the the redistribution of wealth arena. Since the inception of the welfare system, the very wealthy in our society have seen their assets and incomes increase at a rate totally disproportionate to the rest of us. If this is an example of how the tax code punishes the wealthy then I could use some of that punishment. Perhaps the hidden reason for the increase in the wealth of the privileged is the welfare system itself. Afterall, 99% of the money actually given out goes immediately back into the economy in the form of grocery purchases and other such necessities.

The Soviet Union was not a truly Socialist Democratic state. It was a tyranny with the economy controlled by a few select individuals and manipulated by them for their own gains. Rather like the US economy is becoming. The only difference is we call these men CEO's and Chairmen of the Board and worship them as if they were Jesus Christ incarnate. Wolves in sheep clothing more like it.

Let's bomb Iraq and ask for wage concessions. That should be the Republican mantra. Most of the Democrats too.

Another person that doesn't understand economics at all.

The fact that one person's salary rises faster than yours is only your concern if that money is taken from your pocket. And it isn't. You are paid exactly what your job is worth on the competitive market. Employers are very sensitive to this and attempt to offer a competitive wage because they would like to attract the best people to the position.

If you'd like to make the big bucks, educate yourself and compete for the jobs. It's not easy, but you weren't born with a garuntee or an instruction manual stuck in your ass. Your life is yours to make the best of, or fuck up, however you want. And it is not the responsibiity of the government to pick you up for your bad decisions. Further, if you continue to make bad decisions you should expect no help at all.

If you want even bigger bucks, start your own business. It can be done. I know. And it won't take any out of pocket funds to do so. If you are willing to put together a sound business plan and shop it around, you can get investors. Of course, you'll have to share the ownership and profits, if any, with them. But you don't need to put up your own money and it's their money at risk.

And that is what being a business owner and/or CEO is all about. The management of risk capital. Either that of the investors, or the owners directly. The rewards are great for the people that make good decisions and manage well. Not so good for those that don't.

The Soviet Union failed because government is a net consumer. They produce nothing. Nation wide management of resources based on 'five year plans' and 'one size fits all' decision making. It is the core failure of any socialized system, and has been the ruin of the industries that have been 'nationalized'. In each and every case. The issue has never been if the system will fail, only how long it will take.

You see, capitalism is the way that individuals do business with one another. It is a natural system of commerce with the value of any commodity or service determined by the supply and the demand.
Yes, there are cycles. But so there were in all of the socialist systems. The difference being that free enterprise was able to adjust to the cycles much faster than their socialist counterparts. The socialist complain that is was the ability of these free enterprise systems to adapt that caused the failures in their own systems. Bull shit. What they were saying was that they should control the free enterprise systems too so that everyone could go down the drain together.

In the end, you are worth what you are paid. If you wish to be paid more, increase your worth. The fact that you think you are worth more, and you can get some others to agree with you just doesn't make it so.

Ishmael

 

[The Squid King]

Preach on brother!