Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

[celiaKitten]

Four qualities I'm straining to see in the world lately. It's like a huge dysfunctional family - yelling and screaming at each other, no one really listening.

It really is possible to disagree and still retain these qualities. It's just less work to do the opposite.

 

[Effigy]

Disagree

 

[JazzManJim]

It really is possible to disaree and still retain these qualities

I wholeheartedly agree here.

 

[celiaKitten]

Disagree

See? scatterbrained, I'm telling you..

 

[celiaKitten]

Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

I wholeheartedly agree here.

Taking cheap potshots at France by changing French to Freedom is unkind. It doesn't matter who started or is doing what .. turn the other cheek, you know? It applies everywhere.

 

[bluemuse]

Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Taking cheap potshots at France by changing French to Freedom is unkind. It doesn't matter who started or is doing what .. turn the other cheek, you know? It applies everywhere.

Amen sistah. It's how I strive to live my life. I don't always succeed......but I do try.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Taking cheap potshots at France by changing French to Freedom is unkind. It doesn't matter who started or is doing what .. turn the other cheek, you know? It applies everywhere.

Patience does have a limit, cK. Kindness can't be extended forever or you turn from kind into milquetoast.

 

[nasty1]

4 qualities that hardly exist, anymore,(if they ever did.)

 

[nasty1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Patience does have a limit, cK.

That it does.

 

[celiaKitten]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Patience does have a limit, cK. Kindness can't be extended forever or you turn from kind into milquetoast.

But when does that ever justify making that kind of cheap insult? France disagrees, and they might even be insulting us horribly, sure. However, that doesn't justify doing something that only serves to insult, to thumb our nose. That's not supporting our troops (an argument I've heard), it certainly is useless other than an insult.

You can be stern, disagree, match them point for point.

Insults in international relations? Never acceptable on that level of our government. Period.

 

[celiaKitten]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Amen sistah. It's how I strive to live my life. I don't always succeed......but I do try.

Same here. No one is perfect, certainly not me. Trying is all one can do.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

But when does that ever justify making that kind of cheap insult? France disagrees, and they might even be insulting us horribly, sure. However, that doesn't justify doing something that only serves to insult, to thumb our nose. That's not supporting our troops (an argument I've heard), it certainly is useless other than an insult.

You can be stern, disagree, match them point for point.

Insults in international relations? Never acceptable on that level of our government. Period.

I disagree.

We have been rather patient with several nations' elected officials who have hurled insults that in the past would never have been uttered in private, much less in public and on the record. I'm fairly surprised at how polite our response has been in the face of these purposeful insults.

So Congress decides to purposefully remove France from the menus of a couple restaurants? It's a rather purposeful message that perhaps France needs to actually engage the debate on substance rather than insult. I don't see it as unkind. I see it as a signal that we've had about enough of the put-downs and it's time to let it lie.

 

[celiaKitten]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

I disagree.

We have been rather patient with several nations' elected officials who have hurled insults that in the past would never have been uttered in private, much less in public and on the record. I'm fairly surprised at how polite our response has been in the face of these purposeful insults.

So Congress decides to purposefully remove France from the menus of a couple restaurants? It's a rather purposeful message that perhaps France needs to actually engage the debate on substance rather than insult. I don't see it as unkind. I see it as a signal that we've had about enough of the put-downs and it's time to let it lie.

A better signal would have been to let ourselves stay above it. Now, we just look like little kids slinging insults. I completely disagree with you here.

 

[cheesysusie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

I disagree.

We have been rather patient with several nations' elected officials who have hurled insults that in the past would never have been uttered in private, much less in public and on the record. I'm fairly surprised at how polite our response has been in the face of these purposeful insults.

So Congress decides to purposefully remove France from the menus of a couple restaurants? It's a rather purposeful message that perhaps France needs to actually engage the debate on substance rather than insult. I don't see it as unkind. I see it as a signal that we've had about enough of the put-downs and it's time to let it lie.

I disagree with you JMJ, but I still understand, have patience, will be kind, and forgive you for disagreeing.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

A better signal would have been to let ourselves stay above it. Now, we just look like little kids slinging insults. I completely disagree with you here.

Yes I know. I didn't expect that you would (or the fair susie either!). We see the House's action as two different things. And that's okay. At least we don't have Congressmen calling the French Nazis or anything.

 

[Freya]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

So Congress decides to purposefully remove France from the menus of a couple restaurants? It's a rather purposeful message that perhaps France needs to actually engage the debate on substance rather than insult. I don't see it as unkind. I see it as a signal that we've had about enough of the put-downs and it's time to let it lie.

I see it as a waste of time, by officials who certainly must have better things to do. It's also juvenile and petty, and done by supposed adults who are running a country.

The insults being hurled at your country are not only coming from other countries, but also from within, by its own citizens. Will they start somehow punishing those Americans who disagree with government policies as well?

Frankly, your president is pushing through, very forcefully, an action which will efect a fuck of a lot more than just the USA, in the face of little support. Maybe all those officials who have nothing better to do than worry about the name of fried potatoes, should be spending some time listening to those other countries, and thinking of whether what they're doing is the best thing.



Never mind that calling them freedom fries is made even more stupid by the fact that they aren't even French to begin with.

 

[celiaKitten]

lol - good point

 

[LadyG]

Belgium is where they originated..no?

 

[celiaKitten]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Maybe all those officials who have nothing better to do than worry about the name of fried potatoes, should be spending some time listening to those other countries, and thinking of whether what they're doing is the best thing.

Exactly why Senator Robert Byrd's speech struck a chord with me - where is the debate about this? When so much of our population has doubt, questions .. why aren't our congressmen saying anything?

 

[Freya]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Exactly why Senator Robert Byrd's speech struck a chord with me - where is the debate about this? When so much of our population has doubt, questions .. why aren't our congressmen saying anything?

They get people fired up with distractions - the supposed correlation to Sept 11th, making noise about how other countries are insulting yours - and hope that Americans are sufficiently sheeplike to not think of the real issues. It's nice to know that a good portion of you aren't - not that it'll matter since your Pres will apparently do as he wishes regardless.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

I see it as a waste of time, by officials who certainly must have better things to do. It's also juvenile and petty, and done by supposed adults who are running a country.

The insults being hurled at your country are not only coming from other countries, but also from within, by its own citizens. Will they start somehow punishing those Americans who disagree with government policies as well?

Frankly, your president is pushing through, very forcefully, an action which will efect a fuck of a lot more than just the USA, in the face of little support. Maybe all those officials who have nothing better to do than worry about the name of fried potatoes, should be spending some time listening to those other countries, and thinking of whether what they're doing is the best thing.

Never mind that calling them freedom fries is made even more stupid by the fact that they aren't even French to begin with.

The point I was making is that, given the rhetorical level of the insults coming from officials from other countries (which carries more weight than the same comments coming from citizens my a couple orders of magnitude), what the House did is a relatively mild symbolic statement. It was a warning to back off a couple ticks, that they're taking over-the-line shots at a people which has, in good times and bad, been their stalwart alliy.

I don't believe it's inappropriate. If anything, I don't believe that it was a strong enough statement.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

They get people fired up with distractions - the supposed correlation to Sept 11th, making noise about how other countries are insulting yours - and hope that Americans are sufficiently sheeplike to not think of the real issues. It's nice to know that a good portion of you aren't - not that it'll matter since your Pres will apparently do as he wishes regardless.

Which issues are we ignoring?

 

[Freya]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

The point I was making is that, given the rhetorical level of the insults coming from officials from other countries (which carries more weight than the same comments coming from citizens my a couple orders of magnitude), what the House did is a relatively mild symbolic statement. It was a warning to back off a couple ticks, that they're taking over-the-line shots at a people which has, in good times and bad, been their stalwart alliy.

I don't believe it's inappropriate. If anything, I don't believe that it was a strong enough statement.

Seriously, do you think that it insults the French to change the name of fries? Do you not think that the whole lot of them is sitting over there giggling at what a bunch of ignorant ninnies the American government is? Especially since they felt the need to inform your government that it was an ineffective insult considering french fries originated in Belgium, yet they made that change anyways. What's next? Will the Senate sit and hold their breath til they turn blue unless those big meanies in France stop picking on them?

 

[dreamer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding, Patience, Kindness, Forgiveness

Insults in international relations? Never acceptable on that level of our government. Period.

I'm just glad in the 21st century we can disagree with France's views on this and the way our leaders respond is a silly sign in the cafeteria. There was a time, not so long ago, that disagreements between nations were settled with war.

The fact that you can be disappointed in the US for their behaviour is very demonstrative of how far our society has actually come. Imagine a couple hundred years ago...and see how small something like 'freedom fries' really is.

Countries whose leadership's stance on America is they all must die...now that's another thing all together.

 

[LadyG]

Not just France, but every other country that this has been broadcast in.

Really, it makes the country as whole look childish and petty.

ESPECIALLY after France pointed out the error.