It's A Matter Of (Mis) Trust.....

[SevMax2]

With apologies to Billy Joel, of course.

The core unspoken issue that is at the root of a lot of our political impasse, polarization, the proliferation of news sources which often skew in one partisan direction or another and aren't accepted by the opposite camp, the breakdown in marriage, relationsips, family, courts of law, electoral politics, social media, religious splits and quarrels, academic rot and riots, etc. is this: we no longer trust each other. Period. Men don't trust women enough to even be alone with them in the same offices and women trust bears more than men. This mistrust leads to the State trying to disarm law-abiding civilians when criminals commit crimes and the law-abiding citizens buying guns at exponential rates whenever there is any such talk. It's often led me to joke that anti-gun politicians must own stock in gunmakers, because if they did, they would have a handy way to spike the values of their own shares. That such a joke could even occur to me shows me my own level of cynicism that has me convinced that we really have a genuine suspicion of our fellow man at a level that's now on steroids.

In summary, we really don't trust each other at all. Period. End of story. Everyone thinks that people of different demographics are especially out to get them, and even plenty of people within their own demographics, for that matter. The social contract is broken and each person and community believes that someone else broke it first. Men blame women for breaking it through the rise of feminism. Women think that men broke it by voting to strip away their abortion rights and other things. Churches blame non-Christian minorities for somehow breaking it by introducing other faiths as well as atheism into the country. Religious minorities claim that the churches broke it by becoming very political and partisan. That's just some examples here. White people blame minorities for breaking it through DEI and minorities believe that whites broke it in a variety of ways, including the War On Drugs, for instance.

Most of all, most noticeable, is the way that people so don't trust the government's foreign policy, due to the way that they have soaked this country in blood in various reckless foreign adventures, thus really making recruitment difficult at best. God forbid we should have to have a draft. A lot of young men would understandably be miffed that women didn't have to be drafted, thus not having equal obligations despite having equal rights, which is arguably a breach of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. Ironically, especially for many in the manosphere, it's often conservative, or trad con, at least, Republican politicians, such as Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who blocked equal draft registration because it doesn't align with their stance on traditional gender roles. The fact that the many national security experts who once led us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and other blunders, keep pushing the "Russia/Ukraine" angle with a lot of Cold War nostalgia, only increases the sense of mistrust and suspicion, especially on top of the many bad trade deals which combine with the eroding effect of these wars on our military readiness to make the ultra-jingoist stance of some folks to seem less than authentically patriotic in any sense. It was this combination of dissent from our trade and foreign policies that was among the wedge issues that helped propelled the rise of Donald Trump (remember when he denounced W to Jeb Bush's face?).

What's the answer, though? I wish that I could say, but I don't think that there is really a fix. I honestly think that we're all just fucked. I hate to speak gloom and doom, but I don't see any alternatives over the horizon. We're just screwed, end of story. Then again, I freely own up to being what I call "the eternal pessimist." So sue me. That's me. I'm a cynic. Deal with it.

 

[Lazaran]

Men blame women for breaking it through the rise of feminism. Women think that men broke it by voting to strip away their abortion rights and other things

TFG

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

With apologies to Billy Joel, of course.

The core unspoken issue that is at the root of a lot of our political impasse, polarization, the proliferation of news sources which often skew in one partisan direction or another and aren't accepted by the opposite camp, the breakdown in marriage, relationsips, family, courts of law, electoral politics, social media, religious splits and quarrels, academic rot and riots, etc. is this: we no longer trust each other. Period. Men don't trust women enough to even be alone with them in the same offices and women trust bears more than men. This mistrust leads to the State trying to disarm law-abiding civilians when criminals commit crimes and the law-abiding citizens buying guns at exponential rates whenever there is any such talk. It's often led me to joke that anti-gun politicians must own stock in gunmakers, because if they did, they would have a handy way to spike the values of their own shares. That such a joke could even occur to me shows me my own level of cynicism that has me convinced that we really have a genuine suspicion of our fellow man at a level that's now on steroids.

In summary, we really don't trust each other at all. Period. End of story. Everyone thinks that people of different demographics are especially out to get them, and even plenty of people within their own demographics, for that matter. The social contract is broken and each person and community believes that someone else broke it first. Men blame women for breaking it through the rise of feminism. Women think that men broke it by voting to strip away their abortion rights and other things. Churches blame non-Christian minorities for somehow breaking it by introducing other faiths as well as atheism into the country. Religious minorities claim that the churches broke it by becoming very political and partisan. That's just some examples here. White people blame minorities for breaking it through DEI and minorities believe that whites broke it in a variety of ways, including the War On Drugs, for instance.

Most of all, most noticeable, is the way that people so don't trust the government's foreign policy, due to the way that they have soaked this country in blood in various reckless foreign adventures, thus really making recruitment difficult at best. God forbid we should have to have a draft. A lot of young men would understandably be miffed that women didn't have to be drafted, thus not having equal obligations despite having equal rights, which is arguably a breach of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. Ironically, especially for many in the manosphere, it's often conservative, or trad con, at least, Republican politicians, such as Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who blocked equal draft registration because it doesn't align with their stance on traditional gender roles. The fact that the many national security experts who once led us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and other blunders, keep pushing the "Russia/Ukraine" angle with a lot of Cold War nostalgia, only increases the sense of mistrust and suspicion, especially on top of the many bad trade deals which combine with the eroding effect of these wars on our military readiness to make the ultra-jingoist stance of some folks to seem less than authentically patriotic in any sense. It was this combination of dissent from our trade and foreign policies that was among the wedge issues that helped propelled the rise of Donald Trump (remember when he denounced W to Jeb Bush's face?).

What's the answer, though? I wish that I could say, but I don't think that there is really a fix. I honestly think that we're all just fucked. I hate to speak gloom and doom, but I don't see any alternatives over the horizon. We're just screwed, end of story. Then again, I freely own up to being what I call "the eternal pessimist." So sue me. That's me. I'm a cynic. Deal with it.

The conservatives will eventually wear themselves out with pessimism and hate. Then the rest of us will join together to build a freer and more just America.

 

[Saint_Ann]

The conservatives will eventually wear themselves out with pessimism and hate. Then the rest of us will join together to build a freer and more just America.

OMFG. Do you ever hear yourself?

 

[adrina]

With apologies to Billy Joel, of course.

The core unspoken issue that is at the root of a lot of our political impasse, polarization, the proliferation of news sources which often skew in one partisan direction or another and aren't accepted by the opposite camp, the breakdown in marriage, relationsips, family, courts of law, electoral politics, social media, religious splits and quarrels, academic rot and riots, etc. is this: we no longer trust each other. Period. Men don't trust women enough to even be alone with them in the same offices and women trust bears more than men. This mistrust leads to the State trying to disarm law-abiding civilians when criminals commit crimes and the law-abiding citizens buying guns at exponential rates whenever there is any such talk. It's often led me to joke that anti-gun politicians must own stock in gunmakers, because if they did, they would have a handy way to spike the values of their own shares. That such a joke could even occur to me shows me my own level of cynicism that has me convinced that we really have a genuine suspicion of our fellow man at a level that's now on steroids.

In summary, we really don't trust each other at all. Period. End of story. Everyone thinks that people of different demographics are especially out to get them, and even plenty of people within their own demographics, for that matter. The social contract is broken and each person and community believes that someone else broke it first. Men blame women for breaking it through the rise of feminism. Women think that men broke it by voting to strip away their abortion rights and other things. Churches blame non-Christian minorities for somehow breaking it by introducing other faiths as well as atheism into the country. Religious minorities claim that the churches broke it by becoming very political and partisan. That's just some examples here. White people blame minorities for breaking it through DEI and minorities believe that whites broke it in a variety of ways, including the War On Drugs, for instance.

Most of all, most noticeable, is the way that people so don't trust the government's foreign policy, due to the way that they have soaked this country in blood in various reckless foreign adventures, thus really making recruitment difficult at best. God forbid we should have to have a draft. A lot of young men would understandably be miffed that women didn't have to be drafted, thus not having equal obligations despite having equal rights, which is arguably a breach of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. Ironically, especially for many in the manosphere, it's often conservative, or trad con, at least, Republican politicians, such as Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who blocked equal draft registration because it doesn't align with their stance on traditional gender roles. The fact that the many national security experts who once led us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and other blunders, keep pushing the "Russia/Ukraine" angle with a lot of Cold War nostalgia, only increases the sense of mistrust and suspicion, especially on top of the many bad trade deals which combine with the eroding effect of these wars on our military readiness to make the ultra-jingoist stance of some folks to seem less than authentically patriotic in any sense. It was this combination of dissent from our trade and foreign policies that was among the wedge issues that helped propelled the rise of Donald Trump (remember when he denounced W to Jeb Bush's face?).

What's the answer, though? I wish that I could say, but I don't think that there is really a fix. I honestly think that we're all just fucked. I hate to speak gloom and doom, but I don't see any alternatives over the horizon. We're just screwed, end of story. Then again, I freely own up to being what I call "the eternal pessimist." So sue me. That's me. I'm a cynic. Deal with it.

A better label for you would be nihilist.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

This mistrust leads to the State trying to disarm law-abiding civilians when criminals commit crimes and the law-abiding citizens buying guns at exponential rates whenever there is any such talk. It's often led me to joke that anti-gun politicians must own stock in gunmakers, because if they did, they would have a handy way to spike the values of their own shares. That such a joke could even occur to me shows me my own level of cynicism that has me convinced that we really have a genuine suspicion of our fellow man at a level that's now on steroids.

I'm a cynic. Deal with it.

I had never thought of it that way, but I had considered that some/most mass shootings have the air of there's more to this than meets the eye. We're supposed to ignore the little man behind the curtain.


Yeah??? Fuck that shit!!!

 

[Rebel5soul]

I had never thought of it that way, but I had considered that some/most mass shootings have the air of there's more to this than meets the eye. We're supposed to ignore the little man behind the curtain.


Yeah??? Fuck that shit!!!

Cynics and pessimists are rarely disappointed or angry.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Cynics and pessimists are rarely disappointed or angry.

The OP seems pretty pissed off.

Mostly what cynics and pessimists are, is lazy. It’s hard work to pay attention to things and form your own opinions. It’s scary to admit you like something.

Spreading gloom and doom and shitting on everything is an easy way to appear smart and cool when you’re actually mediocre and boring.

 

[SevMax2]

The OP seems pretty pissed off.

Mostly what cynics and pessimists are, is lazy. It’s hard work to pay attention to things and form your own opinions. It’s scary to admit you like something.

Spreading gloom and doom and shitting on everything is an easy way to appear smart and cool when you’re actually mediocre and boring.

Look, believe whatever you want, but I see the patterns that all connect to reflect a society on the brink of collapse. Noticing that isn’t lazy. Missing that is….draw your own conclusions, but my study of history confirms the cyclical nature of it and the fact that every civilization thought that they had reached a linear end of it.

There is no linear end of history and never will be, barring a massive evolutionary breakthrough, because we are the same, shit flinging primates that we were when we first discovered fire and tools underneath all of the trappings of progress and the veneer of refinement.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Look, believe whatever you want, but I see the patterns that all connect to reflect a society on the brink of collapse. Noticing that isn’t lazy. Missing that is….draw your own conclusions, but my study of history confirms the cyclical nature of it and the fact that every civilization thought that they had reached a linear end of it.

There is no linear end of history and never will be, barring a massive evolutionary breakthrough, because we are the same, shit flinging primates that we were when we first discovered fire and tools underneath all of the trappings of progress and the veneer of refinement.

It’s not the end of history. It’s just the end of 40 years of conservatives setting the agenda for the United States.

The liberals being back in control may feel like a societal collapse to you, but it’s just the next chapter in the great story of the American Republic.

 

[SevMax2]

It’s not the end of history. It’s just the end of 40 years of conservatives setting the agenda for the United States.

The liberals being back in control may feel like a societal collapse to you, but it’s just the next chapter in the great story of the American Republic.

You still don't get it, do you? I'm not a conservative. I'm not a liberal. I've been both. I'm neither now. I'm an independent populist with some conservative views, some progressive views, and some centrist views. The "end of history" is a reference to the idea that the cycles of history have stopped turning, that collapse is no longer possible, and that civilization will just move on to some kind of utopia or something close to it. The wheel of history just keeps turning....and it's unlikely to stop. The Bronze Age civilization collapsed. China collapsed repeatedly and will again. Rome collapsed. A wide variety of civilizations have fallen. Our turn is next and it's closer than you think. The patterns are there. You're just too blind to see them. As a history buff, I see them in very stark terms.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Cynics and pessimists are rarely disappointed or angry.

Nor are they houliwinked into excessive Kool-Aid consumption.

 

[SevMax2]

Nor are they houliwinked into excessive Kool-Aid consumption.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that old Diogenes wasn't ever caught up in that. He wasn't even impressed by Alexander the Great. "Only stand out of my sun," he told the king. Face it, cynicism is a perfectly valid philosophy, though not my only one. I'm also part Taoist, part Nietzschean, part Stoic, and part Epicurean, among other things. I even have Zen/Buddhist influences and some from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Heraclitus, etc. Not to mention Emerson and Thoreau. Even Schopenhauer and Sartre get some things right at times.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You still don't get it, do you? I'm not a conservative. I'm not a liberal. I've been both. I'm neither now. I'm an independent populist with some conservative views, some progressive views, and some centrist views. The "end of history" is a reference to the idea that the cycles of history have stopped turning, that collapse is no longer possible, and that civilization will just move on to some kind of utopia or something close to it. The wheel of history just keeps turning....and it's unlikely to stop. The Bronze Age civilization collapsed. China collapsed repeatedly and will again. Rome collapsed. A wide variety of civilizations have fallen. Our turn is next and it's closer than you think. The patterns are there. You're just too blind to see them. As a history buff, I see them in very stark terms.

We're definitely on the verge of a major cultural shift in the United States. White men are losing their exclusive grip on power. People are finally realizing that subsidizing the auto industry has done real damage to American cities and American foreign policy. The oligarchs have overplayed their hand, and the public mood is now behind taxing the rich and more public spending. The dead hand of Ronald Reagan will no longer be weighing down the American people. After this realignment we're probably good for another 80 years until people forget and we have to fight this battle all over again.

 

[SevMax2]

We're definitely on the verge of a major cultural shift in the United States. White men are losing their exclusive grip on power. People are finally realizing that subsidizing the auto industry has done real damage to American cities and American foreign policy. The oligarchs have overplayed their hand, and the public mood is now behind taxing the rich and more public spending. The dead hand of Ronald Reagan will no longer be weighing down the American people. After this realignment we're probably good for another 80 years until people forget and we have to fight this battle all over again.

Suit yourself, but don't come back to me crying in five years when....never mind, you won't have internet or electricity or anything else at that point, and odds are, neither will I. You'll have bigger problems, like the gangs and warlords and such in your area. I imagine that they'll be particularly bad in LA. East Texas won't be much better, though, come to think of it. At least without modern medicine, I won't have to worry about survival for too long. I'll be dead. I'm much more worried about what will befall my granddaughters. Mad Max light perhaps, but not light by too much....

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that old Diogenes wasn't ever caught up in that. He wasn't even impressed by Alexander the Great. "Only stand out of my sun," he told the king. Face it, cynicism is a perfectly valid philosophy, though not my only one. I'm also part Taoist, part Nietzschean, part Stoic, and part Epicurean, among other things. I even have Zen/Buddhist influences and some from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Heraclitus, etc. Not to mention Emerson and Thoreau. Even Schopenhauer and Sartre get some things right at times.

One should not limit himself to one singular point of view if one wants to be considered thoughtful. I am a big fan of Epictetus and Zen/Buddhist observations. I also stumbled over other things which resonate with me. Life is about the digging, not about the finding.

 

[SevMax2]

One should not limit himself to one singular point of view if one wants to be considered thoughtful. I am a big fan of Epictetus and Zen/Buddhist observations. I also stumbled over other things which resonate with me. Life is about the digging, not about the finding.

Very succinctly put.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Very succinctly put.

Thank you.


In general, I agree with a lot of your points of view. It is certainly not the end, and perhaps it is not the beginning of the end, but I think we have to be aware that it is the end of the beginning.

 

[SevMax2]

I call my own personal philosophy or perspective Harmonism....as in harmonizing or balancing the natural order with the social order, keeping the best of both worlds if possible, and also harmonizing different truths from different sources.

 

[SevMax2]

Thank you.


In general, I agree with a lot of your points of view. It is certainly not the end, and perhaps it is not the beginning of the end, but I think we have to be aware that it is the end of the beginning.

Ah, Churchill....

 

[Yarglenurp]

I think you’ve been on social media and the internet too much. I’m also fairly certain you’re way more right wing than you let on, but want to stay diplomatic. In no sane world is “I want to be treated with the same respect and pay as a man” equivalent to “I want to prevent total strangers from getting an abortion that affects only their personal lives.”

California is not on the brink of collapse, and if East Texas collapses, it’ll be more a result of an oil price crash than anything related to the locals. The people in Dallas will be fine.

Here’s what I see… someone who’s gotten tired and has forgotten the hope and optimism of his youth. You were willing to work for a better world then, because you saw yourself in that world. Now that you are old, you see a time when you are no longer around, and so longer care to work for a better world.

The say a society grows great when old men plant trees knowing that they’ll never live long enough to enjoy the shade. Today, I see the opposite… old men who force their children to burn as many trees as they can so that they can enjoy the sight of a burning forest.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Suit yourself, but don't come back to me crying in five years when....never mind, you won't have internet or electricity or anything else at that point, and odds are, neither will I. You'll have bigger problems, like the gangs and warlords and such in your area. I imagine that they'll be particularly bad in LA. East Texas won't be much better, though, come to think of it. At least without modern medicine, I won't have to worry about survival for too long. I'll be dead. I'm much more worried about what will befall my granddaughters. Mad Max light perhaps, but not light by too much....

What do you think will cause this five-year crash?

Conservative media does a lot of fear-mongering about California, but we're on a good path in LA. Our mayor is working hard to get people off the streets. There's a lot of new housing being built. There's also a big push to finish transit projects before we host the 2028 Olympics. I'd much rather be here than in east Texas. At least we have electricity during our heatwaves.

 

[SevMax2]

I think you’ve been on social media and the internet too much. I’m also fairly certain you’re way more right wing than you let on, but want to stay diplomatic. In no sane world is “I want to be treated with the same respect and pay as a man” equivalent to “I want to prevent total strangers from getting an abortion that affects only their personal lives.”

California is not on the brink of collapse, and if East Texas collapses, it’ll be more a result of an oil price crash than anything related to the locals. The people in Dallas will be fine.

Here’s what I see… someone who’s gotten tired and has forgotten the hope and optimism of his youth. You were willing to work for a better world then, because you saw yourself in that world. Now that you are old, you see a time when you are no longer around, and so longer care to work for a better world.

The say a society grows great when old men plant trees knowing that they’ll never live long enough to enjoy the shade. Today, I see the opposite… old men who force their children to burn as many trees as they can so that they can enjoy the sight of a burning forest.

Dude, believe whatever you like. I know who and what I am. You don't have the first clue. You just have your own convenient interpretation of me, which allows you to judge me and dismiss my warnings. That's your prerogative, but don't for a second expect me to believe something about myself that isn't true. That dog won't hunt, Hoss.

Let me clear about some things. I am pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-Israel, distributist in my economic philosophy (look that up if you're confused), populist in my attitudes and views of the existing social, political, and economic elites. I want stronger anti-trust action. I support UBI. I support my own version of health care reform, which is basically Medicaid covering everyone not covered by anyone else. I want to eliminate the Social Security tax cap. I want nuclear power to have a larger role in our energy policy. I want high-speed rail to have a much greater share of the transportation package. I favor nationalization of local utilities, in order to remove the profit motive from local electricity providers. I am a bisexual guy with a transgender sister-in-law and a disabled wife. I also favor student loan forgiveness, though wedded to serious tuition reform and major streamlining of wasteful university programs and administrative functions.

If you think for a second that the Republican fiscal policy impresses me more than the Democratic one, you don't know me at all. Harris goes a bit too far with taxing unrealized gains, but I did support her LIFT Act idea when she floated it. I personally favor sumptuary taxes, as John Adams did. I support the full legalization of pot, the decriminalization of harder drugs, the full amnesty of all nonviolent drug offenders, and the decriminalization of sex work along the New Zealand Model. I support Net Neutrality and I think that we might want to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine in broadcast media. I want to abolish right to work laws. I also support capital punishment and oppose defunding the police. I favor some tighter border controls, but oppose extremist notions of abolishing birthright citizenship. The Fourteenth Amendment is sacrosanct. It establishes the civic nationhood and universal, equal protection of the law for all Americans. I also back the Dream Act. Some tariffs on countries that have imposed one-sided trade policies on us are overdue, though I'm not wild about how far Trump wants to take them.

Those are just a few of my views.

 

[SevMax2]

What do you think will cause this five-year crash?

Conservative media does a lot of fear-mongering about California, but we're on a good path in LA. Our mayor is working hard to get people off the streets. There's a lot of new housing being built. There's also a big push to finish transit projects before we host the 2028 Olympics. I'd much rather be here than in east Texas. At least we have electricity during our heatwaves.

Those are all well and good, but it's not going to save you from the variety of societal conditions, both economic, social, and political, that will likely combine with the environmental disasters facing us and maybe World War Three (hopefully not!) to bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Look, I'm not the biggest fan of the separate Texas power grid, either. It's idiotic, but that's the grid we have at the moment. It will be moot when the majority of the grid fails, anyway, taking everything else with it. It could even be a massive solar flare that does it in the end, but I hope not. That sounds really horrible. That's saying nothing of these designer viruses that seem to be on the rise, infecting so many folks. That's downright biological warfare, to be blunt.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Those are all well and good, but it's not going to save you from the variety of societal conditions, both economic, social, and political, that will likely combine with the environmental disasters facing us and maybe World War Three (hopefully not!) to bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Look, I'm not the biggest fan of the separate Texas power grid, either. It's idiotic, but that's the grid we have at the moment. It will be moot when the majority of the grid fails, anyway, taking everything else with it. It could even be a massive solar flare that does it in the end, but I hope not. That sounds really horrible. That's saying nothing of these designer viruses that seem to be on the rise, infecting so many folks. That's downright biological warfare, to be blunt.

This vague litany of gloom and doom contains nothing that would cause society to collapse in five years. Saying "everything sucks" isn't bold or prescient. It's lazy and self-indulgent.