Top-opolis

[zipman]

I agree ... Men, Elves and and a certain Istari (I spelled it incorrectly before.) Also, I don't think that people who haven't read the Quenta Simarillion realize how powerful or old those elves are.

From the Encyclopedia of Arda:

I was pretty surprised when I realized that Galadriel was the oldest elf in Middle Earth, and the only one that was a part of the flight of the Noldor.


I loved Fingolfin most of all, and although the tales of the elves in the Silmarillion are full of woe, I thought they were great reading. It provides such a fuller picture to Middle Earth and gives the reader a much greater sense of the genius that Tolkien was.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

I was pretty surprised when I realized that Galadriel was the oldest elf in Middle Earth, and the only one that was a part of the flight of the Noldor.


I loved Fingolfin most of all, and although the tales of the elves in the Silmarillion are full of woe, I thought they were great reading. It provides such a fuller picture to Middle Earth and gives the reader a much greater sense of the genius that Tolkien was.

I always thought that Celeborn too came out of the west after Melkor stole the Simarils. But after I read your post I researched it, and ... nope. He was one of the Sindar and was born in Doriath. How old he was I don't know. But, I can think of one elf who had to be older than the White Lady. Cirdan the ship builder supposedly awoke with the very first elves. He is the one who kept back the White Ship for the Ring Bearers voyage into the west. He also gave the ring of fire to Gandalf.

From the Quenta Simarillion:

“ ..there appeared in the west of Middle Earth the Istari, whom Men called the wizards. None knew hence they were, save Círdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the sea”.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I thought Tom Bombadil and the barrow-wight scene was mad cool. Was he one of those Gandalf-type immortals too?

My favorite character is still Gandalf. One reason I liked the movie alot was that most of it seemed exactly how I'd pictured the books, big balrogs and all. Only the Uruk-hai seemed wrong. I always pictured them as much more hunched and apish, not so bad-ass bodybuilder looking.

Yeah they left the Tom Bombadil scene out of the movie. I think it was kind of a digression anyway.

Apparently, this is fluff. I guess we should turn the talk to fucking and being sucked.

Marquis, Zipman, who would you do? Liv Tyler as whats her name (Arawen?) or Eliz. Blanchett as Galadriel? Does the cbm have any opinions?

Did any of you fellows jack off to the depictions of slavegirls in the works of Frazetta and Vallejo? If I trace my psychosexuality, the river definitely runs through that valley.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

I thought Tom Bombadil and the barrow-wight scene was mad cool. Was he one of those Gandalf-type immortals too?

My favorite character is still Gandalf. One reason I liked the movie alot was that most of it seemed exactly how I'd pictured the books, big balrogs and all. Only the Uruk-hai seemed wrong. I always pictured them as much more hunched and apish, not so bad-ass bodybuilder looking.

Yeah they left the Tom Bombadil scene out of the movie. I think it was kind of a digression anyway.

Apparently, this is fluff. I guess we should turn the talk to fucking and being sucked.

Marquis, Zipman, who would you do? Liv Tyler as whats her name (Arawen?) or Eliz. Blanchett as Galadriel? Does the cbm have any opinions?

Did any of you fellows jack off to the depictions of slavegirls in the works of Frazetta and Vallejo? If I trace my psychosexuality, the river definitely runs through that valley.

Agreed, Tom Bombadil wasn't central to the plot of LOTR. But, when you've been reading about Tom since you were 8 years old, you expect to see him in the movie. I think that the scene where he puts on the One Ring and it's powerless over him is especially dramatic. Considering that the One Ring had power over even the Maiar (Gandalf was afraid to keep it himself, for fear that it would seduce him into becoming the new dark lord.) In addition, he could see Frodo when Frodo had the ring on his finger. He also made the One Ring disappear. As to what Tom was, no one knows for sure. There are all kinds of wild theories. The one that I liked best, is that he was Illuvatar himself. But, Tolkien said that wasn't the case.

I really liked Kate Blanchett as Elizabeth Regina, however I don't think that she's pretty enough to play Galadriel. Actually, I don't think that any of the actors in the movie are attractive enough to be Elves .... excepting Liv Tyler (who is smoking hot). I've always pictured the elves as looking about five times as northern-European as tall thin Norwegian super models. I would have cast an actress to play Galadriel who looks like a young slightly whiter Daryl Hannan ... if such an actress exists.

Aragorn too, is too swarthy looking and short to be the king of Gondor. He was supposed to be of Númenórean lineage, and the Númenóreans were supposed to be super-Scandinavians.

 

[zipman]

Liv Tyler was pretty hot, with that pouty little mouth! Yeah, I would love to fuck her!

I too, loved Tom Bombadil, and although it didn't mess the story up too much, I still missed him, the old forest and the barrow-downs scenes.

I didn't care for the change at the race to the fjord at Rivendell. I would have liked to have seen Glorfindel.

Another thing I didn't like was when Boromir touched the ring on the path over Caradrhas. I don't think it was necessary.

I am going to the Two Towers for opening night and I'm pretty psyched about it.

CBM - I think you might be right about Cirdan. While they never compare the two, I do think he is older.

 

[rosco rathbone]

In other geeknews, it wasn't supposed to be the cave-troll that spears Frodo. Twas an orc chieftan.

I am semi-psyched for part 2 but the first book was always far and away my favorite. I hope they have some ulta violent Braveheart style battle sequences.

I keep trying to get the cbm to blurt out a screed on the geek/bdsm/SCA/gamer connection but he won't oblige me. Any thing to say, you fellows?

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Yes, I too wondered why Arwen was substituted for Glorfindel.

Speaking of Boromir. One of my favorite parts of "FOTR" takes place at the council of Elrond. Bilbo assumed that the council wanted him to dispose of the One Ring, and reluctantly acquiesed. Boromir, not knowing anything about hobbits, laughed at him, but was silenced by the looks on the faces of Gandalf and the Elf Lords. Their grave respect for Baggins was clearly evident. Of course, none of this was in the movie ...

I'm going to see "The Two Towers" tonight, at midnight. Quite frankly I'm about as excited as a child on Christmas eve! I can't wait to see Treebeard and Shelob!

I'd better take a nap ...

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Lord Melkor and Ungoliant

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mithrandircq/images/Melkor-and-Ungoliant.jpg

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

In other geeknews, it wasn't supposed to be the cave-troll that spears Frodo. Twas an orc chieftan.

I am semi-psyched for part 2 but the first book was always far and away my favorite. I hope they have some ulta violent Braveheart style battle sequences.

I keep trying to get the cbm to blurt out a screed on the geek/bdsm/SCA/gamer connection but he won't oblige me. Any thing to say, you fellows?

I really don't have enough to say on the subject to merit a "screed." I'd say that all of these pursuits have at their heart, people with overly active imaginations and a flair for the dramatic.

You're right about the cave-troll. Mithril coat or no, a troll would have killed Frodo with one blow. The coat would have undoubtedly turned the point of the spear, but the force of the blow would have burst Frodos internal organs and shattered his bones. It would be like being gored on the tusks of an enraged Bull African elephant while wearing a kevlar vest.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Excellent forensic mines of moria analysis.

 

[brnsuga]

SOME THOUGHTS ON PREVIOUS POSTERS...

I have just scrolled through this thread for the first time and I thought I would comment on some discussions from earlier in the thread. Of course, this is the opportune time to slip in my thoughts because it appearss that most of the guys are at the Tolkien premiere, cumming in their pants from the sheer titillation they seem to get from the genre.

------------ QUOTE-------------
We'll have to agree to disagree as to Ms. Berry's alleged beauty. I think that her husband would make as cute a girl as she.
------------ QUOTE-------------

So glad to hear that comment! I thought that I was the only one who thought she looked like a Peter-Pan-ish-type, sexually immature little boy, who just happens to have boobs.. Since I am a woman who has no attraction to females, I wondered if there were any men who agreed with my observation. There are some women who seem to "O-O-O-O-O-OZE" a certain sensuousness and sexuality. Halle is plain vanilla with no "ooze" at all. She strikes me as being the safe, sanitized image of a Black woman who would not threaten the men who want to go there, but who are scared the real thing would overwhelm them. That being said, please know that I mean no disrespect to her as a fellow woman of color, nor to the men who may find her attractive. To each his own.

I am dismayed that she agreed to do the sex scenes in the "Monster's Ball" role. According to my reading, she became the first woman to win an Oscar where the role required the type of explicit sex which was displayed in that movie. I am all for explicit sex, but in the context of "R" rated movies, her performance has far reaching sociological implications for Black women which I won't delve into right now. I will say that the idea that viewers could not understand the nature of that male/female relationship without those scenes is absurd. Sex was simply used as a box office draw, not as a plot development tool. Would the same explicit scene have been "necessary" to the plot if Whoopi Goldberg had been playing that part? I doubt it. And how high has the bar been raised for future Black actresses vs. so many white "A-list" actresses who have been allowed to restrict the explicit scenes in their movies in order to preserve their future viability in the world of main stream cinema?


------------ QUOTE-------------
On another subject of this thread, just in general I have a hard time with the term Afro-American because it is so USA-centric and therefore doesn't accurately describe many black people I know. I am just NOT going to go around calling my Jamacian-Canadian friend "AfroAmerican." That's just stupidly inaccurate. So there!
------------ QUOTE-------------

Actually, your Jamaican-Canadian friend IS in fact African-American. The term African-American refers to all people of African descent who live in an American country. People of color from Jamaica are of African descent. I know many people from Jamaica (my sister is married to a Jamaican). The ones I know usually refer to themselves as African-American, and sometimes Jamaican-Americans.

And Canada IS an American country. One of the reasons that the U.S. incurs so much wrath from so many corners of the globe is our insensitivity and our assumption that we can usurp as our own whichever titles or icons we so choose, even if said titles already belong to other people. If our media covered world news more objectively, we would be more aware of the fact that there are many peoples who also live on the continents of North & South America. The title "America" is not ours to claim, as if we are the only culture of value on these two continents. I once made the mistake of referring to the "United States OF America" as just simply "America" while speaking at an international conference and I was severely chastised for it. I continue to make this mistake at times, and I realize that I need to be more concientious about the issue. Just an FYI.


------------ QUOTE-------------
First of all, the reason that I can find the term "black" offensive is that the word is really just a social construct of race.
------------ QUOTE-------------

So true. I myself prefer African-American but I use the term Black at times for expediency (less letters to type, etc.)

Race IS a social construct with absolutely no genetic basis. Geneticists can easily find a much greater genetic variance between two white people of different national origins than they might find between a black person and a white person. There was no such thing as the "white" race before the establishment of this country. The term "white race" was established by this country's founding fathers out of a need to combine the immigrating Italians, English, French, etc., into a cohesive majority so that they could identify "the good guys" and legally retain all power and privelege for those identified as members of this "white race".


------------ QUOTE-------------
Now the cbm isn't going to post here anymore since you guys are feuding like idiots instead of recognizing that you are both highly perverse brilliant geeks in a world most unfriendly to same.
------------ QUOTE-------------

Well said!!! Perversion does not have to be characterized as either good or evil - it is simply a deviation from the norm. As a person of color, I have always found that deviating from the Euro-centric norm established in this society has been to my benefit. Unity among deviants works to preserve the species, so play nice, guys!

And while I am on the topic of "norms", I would like to weigh in on previous comments made on this thread about the terms "exotic" and "Oriental". First, let me commend the poster for saying that once it was explained to him by an Asian person why the term "Oriental" was insulting, the poster was willing to change his habits. There are so many who have had the nerve to say "What's the big deal?", ignoring the basic right of any nationality or person to determine what he or she is called.

This culture has a bad habit of continuing to use the terms which were originally developed to express the opinion that Europe was the center of all things sane and good on this earth. The term "orient" has its basis in a term meaning "eastern". Europeans thought of themselves as "ground zero" and therefore, Asia was to the east of the center of civilization, hence the term "Oriental". People in Asia were insulted that their nationality had to be based on a theory that Europe was the center of the universe, and that is why it is insulting and condescending to use the term "Oriental".

The term "exotic" was used earlier in the thread to refer to women of color. The same theory of Euro-centric thinking applies here also. "Exotic" literally means something that is "foreign", "not acclimatized", "outside of the norm". And what IS that norm? It's the European standard of beauty. Again we are compared to a norm which establishes the European culture as the center of the universe; ...... Odd, considering the fact that only something ranging between 10 to 20% of the world's population is white. Given this fact, wouldn't it be more accurate to "compliment" white women by referring to THEM as the "exotic" minority?


---"FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW."---


Just some thoughts and reactions... thanks for listening!

Peace & luv,
brnsuga

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

So glad to hear that comment! I thought that I was the only one who thought she looked like a Peter-Pan-ish-type, sexually immature little boy, who just happens to have boobs.. Since I am a woman who has no attraction to females, I wondered if there were any men would also see it that way. There are some women who seem to "O-O-O-O-O-OZE" a certain sensuousness and sexuality. Halle is plain vanilla with no "ooze" at all. She strikes me as being the safe and sanitized image of a Black woman who would not threaten the men who want to go there, but are scared the real thing would overwhelm them. That being said, please know that I mean no disrespect to her as a fellow woman of color, nor to the men who may find her attractive. To each his own.

You are preaching to the choir. I've never thought that Halle Berry was more than passingly attractive. She's cute, but sexually ... as a woman ... she does nothing for me. She looks too mousy (complete with big mouse ears) to engender any feelings of lust, in me anyway.

I am dismayed that she agreed to do the sex scenes in the "Monster's Ball" role. According to my reading, she became the first woman to win an Oscar where the role required the type of explicit sex which was displayed in that movie. I am all for explicit sex, but in the context of "R" rated movies, her performance has far reaching sociological implications for Black women which I won't delve into right now. I will say that the idea that viewers could not understand the nature of that male/female relationship without those scenes is absurd. Sex was simply used as a box office draw, not as a plot development tool. Would the same explicit scene have been "necessary" to the plot if Whoopi Goldberg had been playing that part? I doubt it. And how high has the bar been raised for future Black actresses vs. so many white "A-list" actresses who have been allowed to restrict the explicit scenes in their movies in order to preserve their future viability in the world of main stream cinema?

I've said this several times. She did a disservice to every Black actress in Hollywood, or with hopes of making it in Hollywood. They will now be expected to agree to do degrading sexually explicit scenes without complaint. They also can expect, like Halle, to rarely if ever to play opposite a man of colour or play anyone's wife. I'm not going to go deeply into this, but I think that Hollywood bestowing of an Oscar on Ms. Berry for her paltry performance in a depreciating role was an off-hand insult of sorts to the entire Black community.

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://www.**********.com/FilesMain.php?display=Humiliation

I haven't listened to any of these, someone let me know if it's worth it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

brnsuga, re exotic and oriental:

It was post-war Western academics who began questioning Eurocentric terminology, not "people in Asia". I am sure that the average educated CHinese or Japanese of pre-global media/Western economic dominance era would have seen his own culture as the center of the universe.

 

[UCE]

http://www.**********.com/FilesMain.php?display=Humiliation

I haven't listened to any of these, someone let me know if it's worth it.

Cool link, Rosco. I'll listen to them tonight (I get a night off and WITH beer, hooray!) and let you and others know what I thought. Thanks for posting this.

 

[rosco rathbone]

"Night off WITH beer"?? That sounds like something that would have happened on board a ROyal Navy frigate off the Spanish Main in 1740. Scrimshaw, sodomy, and those funny capering seaman's dances whose name I can't remember.

 

[UCE]

I only _wish_ I were getting some sodomy tonight! But I'll drink my beer and dream of it.

 

[UCE]

I'm Mixed about the Humiliation Tapes

http://www.**********.com/FilesMain.php?display=Humiliation
I haven't listened to any of these, someone let me know if it's worth it.

First of all, these are like standard meditation/hypnosis tapes, the kind that are commonly distribted to effect behavior change, like stopping smoking, reducing stress, and the like. The tapes take you through a long (five minute) relaxation regime first, so you are open to the suggestions on them. The tapes are aimed at submissive women or maybe wannabe submissive women, and are spoken by a male with a pleasant (at least to me) and very standard East Coast academic voice.

The weight loss tape, whose "real stuff" begins at the 5:55 minute point on the recording, is designed to assist women to loose weight by repetition of the fact in differing words that if they don't lose weight they will never attract a man. The humiliating attitide is there on this recording, but not as strongly as on the other two. Here is a statement from the weightloss one:

"A worthless piece of shit like you needs to do everything it can to be worthy of a cock and lives for even one small drop of cum."

The second recording I listened to, Humiliation 2, is in a similar format: the "real stuff" begins 6:20 minutes into the recording, with a brief introduction and a long relaxation exercise coming before. The one difference between this guy's relaxation exercises and more standard ones is that in addition to becoming more relaxed, you're instructed that you're becoming more obedient, lol.

This tape is much hotter than the weightloss one, although it gets repetitious after the first few minutes. It also suffers because the fellow could have been _extremely_ effective if he had provided specific examples of humiliation that would really get someone hot, painted some scenerios to imagine, but he never does so. Instead, he relies on the repetition, using the right tonations, of verbal abuse. It's sexy going, and I recommend it to all submissives who like humilation or VA, or haven't heard much VA in their lives (the voice is intimate, sexy, and nasty), but it isn't something I'd listen to more than once. It just isn't creatively enough.

The repetition is of course part of all these tapes: they do it in the hopes that it will sink in and make the woman like and enjoy whatever they're telling her, the more she listens to it.

The first humiliation mp3 is less intense than the second, so if you are going to listen to these for fun, I recommend this one first, then humiliation tape 2. The good stuff begins 6:10 minutes into the first recording. The weightloss mp3 is, IMO, not effective for what it was designed for, but there are some nice humilating phrases in it.

Non-submissive guys are not going to get much out of these, unless they need tips on the nasty things to say to women in order to humiliate them (Humiliation 2 is best for that--he has all the basic phrases down pat). You could also give these two files to a woman you think might be submissive, and ask her to listen to them both and give you her impressions. If she's never heard anything like this before and she is submissive, she will probably get very turned on by the phraseology.

(I'm personally very glad I listened to these, because they have inspired me. I'd love to make similar recordings, but from the sub woman's point of view, and much more creative, of course. I'm going to have to experiment with this medium.)

Unda

 

[rosco rathbone]

Thanks yuice. I have a microphone that came with my PC, I ought to make some mp4s of my own.

 

[brnsuga]

brnsuga, re exotic and oriental:

It was post-war Western academics who began questioning Eurocentric terminology, not "people in Asia". I am sure that the average educated CHinese or Japanese of pre-global media/Western economic dominance era would have seen his own culture as the center of the universe.

My point exactly! OF COURSE this is how Asians viewed the world, hence the INSULT. And the situation was exacerbated when there was greater contact between the cultures in more modern times. So the point that you seem to be raising as a counterpoint to my message is in fact the point I was making - sorry if I was in some way unclear on this.

I never said that people in Asia STARTED the process of questioning Euro-centric terminology as your message implies I said. When I used the term "people in Asia", I was not referring to who BEGAN questioning the Euro-centric terminology - I was simply stating the fact that this label has been assigned to Asians without their consent and that many of them are unhappy with that fact.

I personally would shy away from making that kind of "who was first" statement because, as a person of color in this country, no one knows better than I that often, the person who writes the history books and owns the printing presses gets to document as fact who did what first.

I would tend to think of your statement, "It was post-war Western academics who began questioning Eurocentric terminology", as an excellent example of Euro-centric thinking. Most of the history I was taught was heavily influenced by Western cultural philosophy/mythology/iconography. The Western culture documented events from their perspective and once documented, this information was deemed to be factual. With the billions of Asians on this planet, I would be hard pressed to believe that we, as a culture isolated from the Asian culture could, WITH CERTAINTY, take credit for being the FIRST one to question the validity of Euro-centric thinking.

I believe we are in agreement on everything except your use of the term "began".

Thanks for the feedback on this!
brnsuga

 

[rosco rathbone]

It only became an INSULT when the Asian races began to see themselves through Western eyes. Which they did do because of the dominance of Western ways, which in turn was a result of Western technological and economic superiority.

You might enjoy this tome:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...0269195/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1404906-0439332

rosko

 

[rosco rathbone]

Another thing:

It was post-Enlightenment Western European culture that invented the concept of the "other", or "underdog" as occupier of moral high ground. In other words, the intellectual element of the dominant countries invented the terms by which their subjugated counterparts-or their representatives in the First World- might eventually criticise them.

 

[UCE]

Thanks yuice. I have a microphone that came with my PC, I ought to make some mp4s of my own.

If you do that, I want to be one of the first to hear them! I'll give you good edits, too.

They have mp4 format now?? Ai yi yi, I can't keep up.

 

[brnsuga]

It only became an INSULT when the Asian races began to see themselves through Western eyes. Which they did do because of the dominance of Western ways, which in turn was a result of Western technological and economic superiority.

You might enjoy this tome:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...0269195/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1404906-0439332

rosko

Slight disagreement - China, for example (until more recent years) has been able to maintain the standards of their cultural heritage in an exemplary manner. They survived until recently without adopting a capitalist ideology/economy. IMHO the Chinese culture was indeed capable of perceiving the insulting arrogance of the Euro-centric culture without needing to see themselves through European eyes in order to do this. For example, when Europe rewrote history to imply that Europeans, not the Chinese, had created the concept of firearms, the Chinese culture did not need to look at the world through European eyes to be insulted by this claim. The Chinese culture had many things to be insulted about long before they were even willing to acknowledge the global dominance of "Western" ways.

Likewise, when White men appreciate the obvious superiority of the Black women's ass, they ARE often looking at a Black women's ass from the perspective of a European standard of comparision (e.g., that Black ass is so much rounder than Cindy Crawford's ass, etc.). And much of White society (especially the advertising & the movie industry) is arrogant enough to assume that Black men are evaluating the situation looking through eyes that have accepted the white ass as a basic standard for comparison also. And, in general, this is not the case. Sometimes, as much as a culture has been inculcated, beat down and consumed by "Western" culture, certain genetic/cultural ideas and tendencies will persist.

Again, I think your premise itself is somewhat based on Euro-centric thinking.

I checked out your book reference. I have an early day tomorrow so I can't get into it now but I will say that I have always questioned the validity of the "environmental determinism" theory because it seems that you must over-emphasize the value of some facts and ignore other facts in order to get the theory to hold water. To be more credible, I think a theory would need to give credit to environment as well as culture in order to end up with an accurate assessment of societal evolution. For example, great literary works have been found recently in sub-Saharan Africa which had been hidden for centuries in order to protect them from foreign invaders. Environmental determinists had already concluded that sub-Saharan cultures were incapable of developing a literary history because of their nomadic culture. That theory is now proven false and is an example of how these theories are concocted to prove the author's pre-conceived notions about certain cultures.

OK, now I'm going, really going to end this message this time. Thanks again for the food for thought!

-brnsuga

 

[Marquis]

On a slightly tangential note, as someone who has lived in Africa for a good deal of time, it is no mystery that european invaders made a concerted effort to erase African history. I sometimes find it funny how surprised and skeptical peopl are to this idea, and how blind the majority of the occidental (did that offend anyone?) academic community is to its evidence.

The reason for it is unclear, although theories including the idea that it would be easier to subjugate a people without a strong sense of history and civilization, and others as simple as jealousy (Napoleon's armies disfiguring the sphinx is a good example of this) are all pretty plausible.