This just absolutely pisses me off

[KillerMuffin]

Joseph McCarthy returns as Tom Ridge, Director, Homeland Security

REDRUMP better run.


I don't think so, de sade. Security comes after civil liberty. Part of having freedoms is having the responsibility for those freedoms. They also include the responsibility of protecting yourself.

The government can only go so far into civil liberties before "security" is just another word for "tyranny." And that is exactly where we are heading. First it starts with the hidden enemy and plays upon your fears for your own safety. And then it moves into more public enemies, subversives within our own culture, and then the next thing you know, you're showing your papers at a checkpoint just to leave town for the weekend.

That's not my idea of the Land of the Free.

 

[clit_licker30]

When's the last time anybody heard of an INS sweep to kick illegal Canadians out of Michigan, or illegal Irish out of Boston? I think there's selective enforcement afoot.

I can't help but wonder if somebody in security wasn't looking for an excuse for a free superbowl trip.

I have no tolerance for detention- prosecute or deport accordingly.

The Irish and Canadians didn't fly planes into the World Trade Center. It is Arab men that did this and they want another shot at a "big play".

So if you were in charge of security, who would you concentrate your efforts on to find terrorist?

 

[Guest]

The Irish and Canadians didn't fly planes into the World Trade Center. It is Arab men that did this and they want another shot at a "big play".

BINGO! Sorry KM but without security there are no freedoms to enjoy.
Those terrorists were of middle eastern descent, therefore anyone from that region is considered a potential threat.

 

[Calamity Jane]

sorry about your friend but since 9/11, security comes before personal rights. We have to make it a priority. Profiling exists for a reason.

I can't even describe how much that attitude scares me.

I assume you also think it's ok that blacks driving through predominately white neighborhoods SHOULD be stopped and questioned by police.

STG... I completely agree with you, painful as that might be for me.

 

[The Heretic]

I think that they're screening for terrorists and if they find illegal aliens during the search, they're handling them in accordance with the laws. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me.

[/b]It sounds like it is the other way around to me. Just how many terrorists have they found? How many illegal immigrants?

I know that its a long term "war", though I still hope that it ends and things can return to "normal". Hope and pragmatism aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Allowed to proceed the way they are, "things" will not return to normal. No government ever willingly gives up power or recinds such measures that take power away from the people. The "war on drugs" is a very good example of that - even though most intelligent people acknowledge that that the WOD is a failure, that it does more harm than good, the government is still pushing it and the populace at large still support it - some decades later.

 

[Problem Child]

My money says the next terrorists are nine mentally unstable white guys from Boston who try and blow up Fenway park to end decades of suffering and disappointment.

Hired by crazy A-rabs, of course.

 

[Guest]

I can't even describe how much that attitude scares me.

I assume you also think it's ok that blacks driving through predominately white neighborhoods SHOULD be stopped and questioned by police.

did I ever say that? Stop assuming you know me.
Comparing blacks driving through a neighborhood and muslims flying planes into buildings is absurd. The attitude that its ok to let 9/11 happen again scares me.

 

[curious2c]

Something along the conversation going on here...Read in Popular Mechanics that the Dept. of Defense has launched "Total Information Awareness System"...It will not only be able to moniter phone conversations and e-mail, but it will also tap into data banks containing School,banking,medical,court and motor vehicle registration records. Patterns of activity such as seeking a license to haul hazardous materials and visiting certain sites on the web would be flagged.


My, George Orwell was not farr off was he? Big Brother is alive and well and has the full support of seemingly a large majority of the people since there is not public outcry (yet).

 

[Calamity Jane]

BINGO! Sorry KM but without security there are no freedoms to enjoy.
Those terrorists were of middle eastern descent, therefore anyone from that region is considered a potential threat.

Following that logic, all white boys from Kansas with a military background who are driving a Ryder truck should be detained if they attempt to drive past a Federal Building.

 

[KillerMuffin]

BINGO! Sorry KM but without security there are no freedoms to enjoy.
Those terrorists were of middle eastern descent, therefore anyone from that region is considered a potential threat.

This is true. After all in total anarchy the only free are the ones big enough and bad enough to defend themselves.

However, there are no freedoms with security.

Tim McVeigh was a white boy from the US and he was a terrorist. There are a lot of homegrown terrorists with pale faces. Perhaps we should start racial profiling there as well, after all, a domestic terrorist is the most likely and most able to do damage to our national infrastructure. Not only has it been successfully done in the past, there is a tremendous network of domestic anti-US government cells in the country.

Or do you not want to be subjected to these violations of your civil liberties in the name of "security?" After all, the government must protect its citizens from terrorists, foreign and domestic.

 

[Problem Child]

did I ever say that? Stop assuming you know me.

I know you. You're the guy who, in every thread, says:

"Did I say that? No, I don't think I did say that, did I? I think that if I would have said that, I would remember, so stop saying that I said that, because I never said that. Sheesh, why would I say something like that? I would never say that, so stop saying I would say that. I didn't say that!"

 

[Guest]

This is true. After all in total anarchy the only free are the ones big enough and bad enough to defend themselves.

However, there are no freedoms with security.

Tim McVeigh was a white boy from the US and he was a terrorist. There are a lot of homegrown terrorists with pale faces. Perhaps we should start racial profiling there as well, after all, a domestic terrorist is the most likely and most able to do damage to our national infrastructure. Not only has it been successfully done in the past, there is a tremendous network of domestic anti-US government cells in the country.

Or do you not want to be subjected to these violations of your civil liberties in the name of "security?" After all, the government must protect its citizens from terrorists, foreign and domestic.

you're right, ALL white males should be suspect
how often does something like the McVeigh situation happen? Not often enough to warrant monitoring. You people love comparing apples to oranges. Yes there are domestic terrorists but how much of a threat have they been?

 

[Guest]

PC, when I want your opinion I'll ask for it.

 

[Calamity Jane]

did I ever say that? Stop assuming you know me.
Comparing blacks driving through a neighborhood and muslims flying planes into buildings is absurd. The attitude that its ok to let 9/11 happen again scares me.

LMAO. The absurdity of those two statements being used together made me spew my soda.

 

[clit_licker30]

Tim McVeigh is dead now. That is a good thing. A lot of terrorist are dead, and more are going to die soon.

That is also good.

 

[Calamity Jane]

you're right, ALL white males should be suspect
how often does something like the McVeigh situation happen? Not often enough to warrant monitoring. You people love comparing apples to oranges. Yes there are domestic terrorists but how much of a threat have they been?

Do you have the statistics on how many times an event such as September 11th has happened? I'm guessing it's almost exactly the same number of times.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

All the government posturing, and rounding up Arabs, is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide to truth: you cannot ever stop terrorism with military or law enforcement. You can temporarily slow it down, but many of the actions against terrorism merely make more terrorists. All the deportations and arrests are nothing more than government agencies trying to look proactive, while actually not making a dent in terrorism.

(BTW...a case could be made that 9-11 wasn't terror at all, but a response to an expected invasion in Afghanistan in October 2001. The WTC and Pentagon are sound tactical targets for a military strike, as opposed to most terrorists, who would have gotten more results out of multiple smaller strikes on civilian targets)

 

[Guest]

LMAO. The absurdity of those two statements being used together made me spew my soda.

I didnt make the comparison, you did. Read your post.

 

[The Heretic]

The Irish and Canadians didn't fly planes into the World Trade Center. It is Arab men that did this and they want another shot at a "big play".

So if you were in charge of security, who would you concentrate your efforts on to find terrorist?

Terrorists, not people whose student visa has expired.

Look, I don't have a problem with LEOs keeping an eye on someone who might fit a certain profile, but if you are going to detain and question someone then at least have more of a reason to inconvenience them than the color of their skin. There are a lot better ways to catch terrorists than go around and detaining people who look like they might be from the middle east.

As I said before, this takes attention and resources away from the real threats, but it makes people feel good, it is very visible and it is realtively easy for them to do - which is why the government is doing it.

 

[Guest]

Do you have the statistics on how many times an event such as September 11th has happened? I'm guessing it's almost exactly the same number of times.

no I dont but do you?

 

[The Heretic]

STG... I completely agree with you, painful as that might be for me.

What's the world coming to??

We're all doomed I tells ya!

 

[Problem Child]

PC, when I want your opinion I'll ask for it.

Stay tuned for "I'm rubber, you're glue!"

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I can't even describe how much that attitude scares me.

I assume you also think it's ok that blacks driving through predominately white neighborhoods SHOULD be stopped and questioned by police.

STG... I completely agree with you, painful as that might be for me.

Please don't read this wrong...this is about "profiling" and not a statement on race relations. I'm an advocate of "facts" ruling debates and discussions rather than emotion or histrionics.

I saw a television show recently that was a debate at Howard University about about profiling...good or bad? On one side was a professor who argued that the level of incarceration of blacks is due to the fact that they are profiled and "stopped" more frequently than other ethnic groups. Her logic was that: 1) everyone commits crimes in the same percentage of the population and that 2) blacks were jailed more frequently because they were "profiled" and therefore had a greater chance at being arrested. She said that it was a travesty of justice that police will set up a road block, let white people pass through and thoroughly search the cars of black people.

On the other side of the debate was the (black) Chief of Police from Miami. He was very polite and diplomatic and praised the detailed level of analysis performed by the professor.

He then said that he only had one little issue with the analysis. He said that he sets up traffic "stops" based on reported crimes and the descriptions of the perpetrators provided as part of the crime report. He said that the only "profiling" that was done was done in relation to a specific description. If "white" people were waved through a road block, it was because they didn't fit the description of a reported crime (that resulted in a roadblock). He also said that the level of arrests was consistent with the profiles given in the reported crimes.

Kinda blows a hole in the "profiling" argument, doesn't it?

Race issues aside.....I'd say "profiling" in response to a specific crime or threat constitutes good police work.

 

[Guest]

it seems that some of you are terrorist sympathizers and that scares me. You would allow 9/11 to happen again because you are blinded by utopia. Nobody wants war but until Saddam and Osama are eliminated, we have to be prepared for it.
I am sure you dont want to wear a gas mask on a daily basis.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Race issues aside.....I'd say "profiling" in response to a specific crime or threat constitutes good police work. [/B]

The problem is, you can't use profiling to predict a crime that hasn't happened yet! The case of police profiling you sited is looking for a person of a specific description in a small area. We don't know what terrorists look like. I can think of a dozen scenarios of future terrorist attacks that all the racial profiling in the world won't stop...and I'm sure the terrorists have thought of them too. Expect the next attack to be perpetrated by a non-Arab Muslim...