the marks of a slave

[zoe8]

I agree with you, zoe8. And I think...*<snip>* ....the darkness don't lead to reliable sources of light.

I've never looked at false idols in that way. I just always assumed it was frowned against because it would take away from worshiping God. The letdown that comes when a fantasy pops is something I am familiar with.... as I'm sure everyone is. Maybe in D/s lifestyle the letdown can be so much more because of the amount of trust that is required to make the dynamic work.

 

[eastern sun]

Some religions teach that serving your man IS service to God. Your man sits between you and God as a conduit. He is your access to God. Its highly unhealthy. i do not recommend.

Yes. And human beings are prone to this kind of thinking.

The King and the Priests have always acted as God's agents/conduits in the human realm. It's a position wielded by those in power to justify their actions and authority.

I rather like the Yoruba crowns topped with the image of a bird, who would not only bring messages down to the king from above, but also report back to the gods on the king's misdeeds.

 

[rosco rathbone]

he's doing that neat trick that the clergy has done for centuries speaking "ex cathedra" or divinely, rather than mundanely, though capable of both. Actually this is the cornerstone of just about every religion other than Taoism or animist religions in which you can go talk to the rock and the tree if you need to go talk to the Divine just fine, you don't need a specialist.

.

Just thinking this today, reading the good book.

Works real well when the priests get to eat the sacrificial beasts too, in a time when meat was hard to come by.

 

[Homburg]

What? You mean you don't want to be showered with obsessive love, praise and devotion until your partner's paranoia, self-loathing and fear of rejection and abandonment eventually lead her to alternately push you away and pull you closer in a love/hate cycle leading to infidelity and consensual sexual violence?

What's wrong with you?

You make it sound so sexay.

--

Thank you, Netzach. I've felt something similar.

May I ask what precedes those moments? And whether the energy flows predictably in one direction or another?

I'm guess I'm wondering whether the Dominant's and the submissive's energy is moving in different patterns in these moments. Or whether it's the same regardless of D/s orientation.

My energy tends to rise from the base of my spine. And I'm wondering if Dominant's ever feel the energy descending from the crown of their head.

(Should I be embarrassed now? . . . Are my hippie roots showing?. . . Should I just go back to the laundry that's waiting downstairs?. . . . He's gonna take one look at this conversation especially in the middle of the day and I'm gonna pay. )

But this kind of thing really interests me.

I pay attention to this. I've had scenes with people that just obliterate my energy and leave me feeling drained empty. And scenes with others that left me charged and bouyant. I won't go so far as to say that I felt it in my crown or whatnot, but the energy is still there. Repeat scenes with those people left the same feeling. I've also scened with people that felt closed off, like the energy was there, but they were walling it away.

*shrug* I tend to want to scene again with folks what have good energy.

 

[satindesire]

Just thinking this today, reading the good book.

Works real well when the priests get to eat the sacrificial beasts too, in a time when meat was hard to come by.

Meat's never hard to come by when you're around.

*nasty leer*










What? Was that too much?

 

[eastern sun]

He came home early from work, and after greeting me asked, "aren't you going to that dance tonight?" "What?" I can't imagine what he's referring to.

"Don't you have tickets. . ." Oh god, I completely forgot. I'm going to the ballet with an old friend, and it had completely slipped my mind.

It's a fun evening too, called "Girls' Night Out," with a cocktail reception, petit fours during intermission, and Q and A with the ballerinas. I get to dress up and leave everything behind for a few hours.

"I can't believe it. I completely forgot."

He stands there, and points one finger to the floor.

Our house is full of kids, all playing in one room or another, yelling back and forth.

In the middle of the living room, I drop to my knees and thank him for reminding me.

After fetching his soda and batteries from the store, and settling the kids around a board game, with takeout Chinese and iced tea, I ask if he needs anything else before I get ready to go. "I'll let you know."

"Thanks again." I say, "I really wouldn't have remembered."

"That's what makes me good at this," he says, his eyes turning back to the t.v., "I pay attention."

 

[Netzach]

Thank you, Netzach. I've felt something similar.

May I ask what precedes those moments? And whether the energy flows predictably in one direction or another?

I'm guess I'm wondering whether the Dominant's and the submissive's energy is moving in different patterns in these moments. Or whether it's the same regardless of D/s orientation.

My energy tends to rise from the base of my spine. And I'm wondering if Dominant's ever feel the energy descending from the crown of their head.

(Should I be embarrassed now? . . . Are my hippie roots showing?. . . Should I just go back to the laundry that's waiting downstairs?. . . . He's gonna take one look at this conversation especially in the middle of the day and I'm gonna pay. )

But this kind of thing really interests me.

This is gonna sound like a pseudo hindu crock now, but I tend to sexually excite from the head down, I flush a lot around my neck and I primarily experience a weird sensation between my eyes when I'm in this zone, so, yes.

 

[intothewoods]

I have always felt like I was on shaky ground when I confused the two. And I have at times felt like I was serving Him in lieu of serving God.

Going back to my friend who's in an abusive D/s relationship - I can watch her place Him between herself and God, so that she's unable to hear or see anything but Him. She's lost touch with her own inner wisdom. It's as though He stands between her and the light and she is lost in his shadow.

It's very painful to watch, as her health is rapidly failing and her emotional life is erratic and incredibly violent. Her children too are suffering.

I think it's always important for me to remember that M/s is primarily a sexual dynamic, that eroticizes the rest of life. But above and beyond that dynamic is the importance of spiritual, emotional and physical health.

Having not chosen a celibate life, I have no trouble working these sexual desires into my spiritual life as long as I don't lose perspective. Because the nature of the M/s dynamic is all-encompassing, I do lose perspective from time to time, especially when I want to avoid something I'm glimpsing in the heart of it all - but those experiences, when I've dug myself into a rut and have to find my way back out again, are some of the more interesting and growth-inspiring of them all.

Sexuality is one way to be close to God in my religion. So that works out well for me. The rules about cheeseburers and shrimp...not so much. I pick and choose.

I think I'm very much with you as far as thinking of the dynamic (D/s for me) as a sexual dynamic first and foremost. I know for sure my PYL thinks the same. He is fond of saying "I'm basically just a guy who likes rough sex."

My observation of those kinky relationships, in which the God analogy is embraced, is that the relationships are mostly fantasy based. Almost entirely conducted through online or other remote interaction, where the adoring s has both the opportunity, and the necessity, of filling in considerable gaps as far as reality goes.

This actually makes sense, if you think about it. Since God is unknown and unknowable without human imagination, and God's will is whatever a human imagines it to be, then the analogy to filling in the gaps of reality is actually a good one.

Looking at this from the other side of the coin, I'm extremely wary of adulation that doesn't seem balanced. I find it far more erotic, and ultimately satisfying, to be loved not as a placeholder for a fantasy figure but as an actual, flawed human being.

Well that would certainly be apt in my case! I do recall this person arguing with me that he had no interest in being God, but it all just seemed eerily reminiscent to me.

I question. I push back. It's who I am. For me to say yes Sir without question to everything is just not possible, and I'm pretty sure isn't even desirable to Mister Man.

 

[Homburg]

"That's what makes me good at this," he says, his eyes turning back to the t.v., "I pay attention."

He and I were apparently separated at birth. I have said these words. These specific words. On more than one occasion. I mentioned this post to MIS and she said the same thing.

 

[mylaceratedheart]

He came home early from work, and after greeting me asked, "aren't you going to that dance tonight?" "What?" I can't imagine what he's referring to.

"Don't you have tickets. . ." Oh god, I completely forgot. I'm going to the ballet with an old friend, and it had completely slipped my mind.

It's a fun evening too, called "Girls' Night Out," with a cocktail reception, petit fours during intermission, and Q and A with the ballerinas. I get to dress up and leave everything behind for a few hours.

"I can't believe it. I completely forgot."

He stands there, and points one finger to the floor.

Our house is full of kids, all playing in one room or another, yelling back and forth.

In the middle of the living room, I drop to my knees and thank him for reminding me.

After fetching his soda and batteries from the store, and settling the kids around a board game, with takeout Chinese and iced tea, I ask if he needs anything else before I get ready to go. "I'll let you know."

"Thanks again." I say, "I really wouldn't have remembered."

"That's what makes me good at this," he says, his eyes turning back to the t.v., "I pay attention."

Reading things like this just makes me swoon. It gives me hope that I may turn out to be more than a bedroom-only sub.

Also, I am so scatty and have such a crap memory that it would likely happen all the damn time.

 

[Adakgirl]

Yup. Pioneer breeding stock. Yay for me!

Me too ataxia, bear with me a moment.....while I tell you.

I was sent to that religion by my single mother who did not attend at all. My Aunt Cora made her send us when we lived in Utah. I had myself ex-communicated when I was about 27yrs old.

Then just recently I did a genealogy on my maternal grandfather. Much to my surprise I found that my great great grandparents immigrated separately to Utah in one of the Mormon immigration waves. They were married in Salem, Utah in 1874.
That means they were very likely practicing polygamists. The church frowned on those who did not take more than one wife. They had to get Utah populated and growing quickly so they needed lots of babies born asap. Many died at birth or within the first year or two. It made sense then to have four or five wives all reproducing children one right after the other. For all the years she was able too.

My G-G Grandmother gave birth to my great-grandmother (among many other offspring) in Salem, Utah in 1889. Then she grew up there and married my great grandfather in 1907, had my grandfather in Salem. So seems I have a LOT of ancestors buried in Salem and Mormon blood flows deeply in my veins.

I had no idea of any of that info until a few months ago. Mom was not close to her dad..never said a word.

 

[intothewoods]

I have experienced this with just one person....



... who oddly enough made a very similar arguement; that, being a highly skeptical agnostic herself, She was not particualy interested in representing the divine to anyone else, whether or not she channeled it.

I had only rescently heard at that time a line which I have understood for most of my life but always struggled to explain so sucintly;

Hon Sha Ze Sho Nen;
The god within me recognizes the god within you.

She took several days to digest that before she came to her own terms with it, and decided that as long as I still see her as the friend I'd known for years, and not some flawless Goddess fantasy mask, then maybe she was ok if it happened more or less of it's own accord.

I remember giving her Crowe's Requiem to read, and she later told me that it was a perfectly told explanation of my own philosophies of how the world, and each thing in it, is perfect for it's flaws, and balanced in a way that we are not quite equiped to grasp.

I've actually never thought of sex in a mystical way really. I would guess the reason sex gets a fairly good rap in the Torah was simply to encourage procreation.

 

[ataxia.girl]

That means they were very likely practicing polygamists. The church frowned on those who did not take more than one wife. They had to get Utah populated and growing quickly so they needed lots of babies born asap. Many died at birth or within the first year or two. It made sense then to have four or five wives all reproducing children one right after the other. For all the years she was able too.

Don't be so sure that was the reason. Maybe it was for him but it most certainly not why polygamy got started in the early church in the first place but there are other sites for arguing about that.

my own submissiveness is both natural and contrived and the natural part and contrived part are so tangled up together i can seldom tell them apart. Without question i am a product of that training living in an age where the vast majority of my peers had a very different experience. my anger and angst comes from that younger generation but at the same time i often relate more to women who are more my mother's age or even older.

 

[Adakgirl]

Don't be so sure that was the reason. Maybe it was for him but it most certainly not why polygamy got started in the early church in the first place

Oh I know the reason..and the early religion well, ..but you are very right..this is no place to discuss such things.

 

[intothewoods]

by that reasoning one would expect catholics to have a significantly lower population...

Heh, well, reverse psychology works well too.

 

[CutieMouse]

by that reasoning one would expect catholics to have a significantly lower population...

This makes no sense to me.

 

[intothewoods]

This makes no sense to me.

Isn't premarital sex a sin according to the Catholic Church? Sex within a marriage obviously gets a thumbs up. And birth control isn't allowed. Presumably that helps with the baby making.

 

[CutieMouse]

Isn't premarital sex a sin according to the Catholic Church? Sex within a marriage obviously gets a thumbs up. And birth control isn't allowed. Presumably that helps with the baby making.

Premarital sex is a sin according to just about every denomination of Christianity (I got the message loud and clear as a Southern Baptist), but people always pick on the Catholics when the subject comes up. LOL

Sex within marriage is lauded because (my understanding is that) The Church views sex as sacred. I [personally] don't disagree.

Birth control is allowed; however, The Church is one of the few organizations remaining that consistently slams home the fact that the primary nitty-gritty function of sex is procreation. Forms of birth control that disrupt the process of procreation once it's begun are frowned upon - which (annoyingly) kicks out most modern forms of birth control.

I will say that regardless of the official position of the Vatican, I know a lot of Catholics who make very personal BC decisions in the "big picture" sort of way - can I afford children at this time/ever, will my marriage benefit or suffer, will my health suffer, etc.*



(*Opinion of an agnostic/Southern Baptist/converted Roman Catholic/currently "lapsed" Roman Catholic who practiced NFP during her 12 year marriage, is apparently more fertile than God, had 1 unexpected pregnancy [out of 5], and is currently taken care of in the BC department, but blissfully awaiting menopause. )

 

[Nightbird]

Ok this is a total hijack but that EW! *guilt guilt guilt* made me laugh..

ah... ok that makes more sense.

I've just met too many catholics whose knee jerk response to the subject was "EW!" *guilt guilt guilt*

!

 

[satindesire]

I think yesterday was "religious hijack day" here.

I'm sure we'll get back to having or being slaves soon enough.

Did I miss a chapter in the handbook that said slaves couldn't be religious!?

 

[satindesire]

absolutely not.

wait wait...

there's a HANDBOOK!?

Damnit! why doesnt anyone tell me these things!?

They didn't give you one when you got your nametag at the door?!

 

[satindesire]

what this thing? oh crap I thought it was a copy of "the Stand!"

no wonder you weren't sure if you'd missed a chapter; who has time to read all that?

huh.. whats this fine print?

"Volume one"?

*snort* When I got it I thought they were handing out paperback issues of War and Peace.

I've made it up to chapter five, but mind you I've been reading it since I was about eighteen years old. I won't say how old I am now.

 

[intothewoods]

Premarital sex is a sin according to just about every denomination of Christianity (I got the message loud and clear as a Southern Baptist), but people always pick on the Catholics when the subject comes up. LOL

Sex within marriage is lauded because (my understanding is that) The Church views sex as sacred. I [personally] don't disagree.

Birth control is allowed; however, The Church is one of the few organizations remaining that consistently slams home the fact that the primary nitty-gritty function of sex is procreation. Forms of birth control that disrupt the process of procreation once it's begun are frowned upon - which (annoyingly) kicks out most modern forms of birth control.

I will say that regardless of the official position of the Vatican, I know a lot of Catholics who make very personal BC decisions in the "big picture" sort of way - can I afford children at this time/ever, will my marriage benefit or suffer, will my health suffer, etc.*



(*Opinion of an agnostic/Southern Baptist/converted Roman Catholic/currently "lapsed" Roman Catholic who practiced NFP during her 12 year marriage, is apparently more fertile than God, had 1 unexpected pregnancy [out of 5], and is currently taken care of in the BC department, but blissfully awaiting menopause. )

Oh heck yeah. I didn't bring up the Catholics. No reason to single them out really.

 

[BiBunny]

Have you ever met any Southern Baptists? LOL. They put the Catholics to shame.

Says the lapsed SB.

On another note, did you know it's possible to get kicked out of the SB church for being TOO fanatical and TOO overzealous? Yep, it happened to some of my kinfolks. You can't make this shit up.

 

[CutieMouse]

Have you ever met any Southern Baptists? LOL. They put the Catholics to shame.

Says the lapsed SB.

Word.