the marks of a slave

[Bandit58]

Master said something yesterday that interested me. "You are our slave, but you're still our equal, and you always will be."

Mistress said something the day before that interested me. "I have this overwhelming desire to make you happy."

Such a departure from the usual way of looking at things and perhaps grounds for saying, "OMG, you're not really M/s! Who's serving who here?" but whatever. At its core, those two statements are exactly what my fairly unusual relationship with my Owners is. I am their equal; they want to make me happy.

But, to quote Mistress, I am still, to the hardcore depths of my soul, a slave.

Sir considers me His equal. We run a partnership which happens to have elements of D/s - obedience (although He will dispute that sometimes!), service, kink.....and also includes love, devotion, respect and honesty.

We need to work together in order for Sir's health to be the best it can be. I also need "time out", so that I can be at my best physically and emotionally. He supports me in my gym workouts, He makes His own meals on those evenings I have a class.

He loves to see me laugh. He hates seeing the worry lines on my face when He is ill or when things go wrong with dialysis. Despite all those worries though, I would not be anywhere else than by His side

 

[Homburg]

to MIS. That was lovely.

--

Master said something yesterday that interested me. "You are our slave, but you're still our equal, and you always will be."

Mistress said something the day before that interested me. "I have this overwhelming desire to make you happy."

Such a departure from the usual way of looking at things and perhaps grounds for saying, "OMG, you're not really M/s! Who's serving who here?" but whatever. At its core, those two statements are exactly what my fairly unusual relationship with my Owners is. I am their equal; they want to make me happy.

But, to quote Mistress, I am still, to the hardcore depths of my soul, a slave.

I think it is unusual when compared to fanfic. Unusual when compared to non-romantic M/s relationships. It is not unusual compared to the M/s relationships I know of where the M and s are a romantically involved couple.

Well, expressing an explicitly equality is probably rare, but in diction, not concept per se. Insofar as I am concerned, both of my girls have a worth precisely equal to mine. No more valuable, no less. I consider both to be peers. "Equal" has power connotations that are inappropriate, but, conceptually, we are all equal. We choose to assume a dynamic where they set themselves voluntarily inferior to me. This has no bearing on inherent worth, equality, validity of opinion, etc. So in all ways aside from the power dynamic, they are my equals.

And I am highly concerned with wanting them happy, and actively working towards that state. I want my property happy, healthy, and deeply into me. Rawr. And I see nothing at all unusual about that.

--

So now I'm thinking about fear. And trust.

I met a slave tonight on another site who claims she submits to her Master because she fears him. She is afraid of what he'll do if she doesn't do what he asks.

*blink*

This would not work for me.

And myinnerslut poignantly states that she was frightened on the day she was collared. Frightened of the very thing she wanted to happen.

She has felt fear many, many times since then. The contrast with the soul-deep trust she feels is part and parcel to the depth and worth of the energy between us.

I know both those fears.

I've always treated fear as an obstacle to service. A condition that needed to be balanced by my own internal adjustments. Implying that the day would come when I wouldn't feel afraid ever again. (or at least that crippling kind of fear)

Really?

Tonight I'm wondering if fear isn't a necessary component of the experience.

What if I followed my previous train of thought, and really was able to overcome my fear? Would I be sorry? Would I miss its energy? Its fire?

Or is it that I am trying to put my fear in his hands? In hands I trust. Hoping then that he'll mete it out in doses that are medicinal, curative, healing.

Maybe if I put my fear in his control I can be free from that generalized fear of all the myriad ways I fuck things up.

Look at this thinking!

It's humbling.

I think that fear is an inherent and necessary component to this sort of relationship. I do not think that it is healthy when it dominates the exchanges though. Living in constant fear is a recipe for disaster. That said, healthy amounts of fear certainly spice up interaction. She does not fear that I will permanently harm or kill her, but not knowing what I might do next is scary. It is not so much fear of me, but of the unknown and unexpected that add that tang of emotion to the mix.

And, as you mentioned, the ever-present fear of disappointment, failure. Not much to do about that one, as it seems to be core to the submissive/slave experience. Don't feel too badly though. It is also ever-present on the other side of the whip usually. This is because it is a human thing, not a top or bottom thing.

 

[eastern sun]

equality in TPE

I have power and am able to accomplish wonderful things. I can also do terrible things. I have the power to speak, to act, to love, to hate, to obey, to rebel, to work, to undermine, to create, to destroy. The list goes on and on.

I do not stop having that power when I become a slave.

When I became a slave, I gave my power to my master. In the same way I gave my body to him. It is now his to use as he wishes.

And he does not want me to have less power than him. In some circumstances, he wants me to exercise more power than he does. (Especially when it comes to menial tasks )

He expects me to do what I can to continue generating power, in my body, my mind, my family, my community. My power has become his asset.

The issue, of course, is not power. It is control.

A horse is an incredibly powerful animal. And would be useless if broken or damaged by poor use. An experienced husband - (I'm playing with words now, drawing from its root in husbandry - the care, cultivation and breeding of crops and animals) - knows how to tame this natural force, guiding the energy into constructive channels.

If you have ever seen someone tack a horse (apparently tack is a shortened version of "tackle"), you can see the horse's initial resistance. It's an instinctual knee-jerk response to being tackled.

I am not a horse. My pre-frontal cortex allows me to overcome some of my body's instinctual fears. It is my responsibility to work with this brain of mine to put that instinctual response in perspective. So that I do not resist the taming of my will, and am able to channel my power as directed.

As a human being, I am his equal. I just have given myself to him. I belong to him.

How he chooses to use me is up to him.

 

[Adakgirl]

Tonight I'm wondering if fear isn't a necessary component of the experience.

I truly believe it is

I met a slave tonight on another site who claims she submits to her Master because she fears him.

My fearing the unknown consequences that I might suffer at his hands if I do not submit... is not the reason I submit. My motivation to submit comes from me wanting to obey him, my deep seated desire to please him, not because I am afraid of him.

 

[eastern sun]

I've lost most of my internet privileges. Having abused them by spending too many hours last weekend on a certain BDSM forum.

The time I've been given gives me an opportunity to read, but not write. Or write, but not read.

I'm getting a lot more work done. . . and that's a good thing . . . but I miss y'all.

 

[SubKekiLee]

BiBunny, my husband thinks of me as an equal and wants me to be happy too.

But I'm still his slave. His priorities and desires always come first, they are not "equal" to mine in his mind. And he does not hold himself responsible for my happiness. (If I placed my happiness solely in his hands, I would not be happy. )

The fact that you choose a Master and Mistress who think of you as an equal and want to make you happy just reveals the nature of the experience you're looking for.

Do Masters have to be cruel to stay in power?

Eastern Sun
I do not believe that a Master must be cruel or unforgiving. My Sir tells me all the time I am perfect..... perfectly human... After now almost 17 months together I still am punished for the wrongs and cherished on a daily basis. Fear wouldn't work for me cause thats abuse IMHO I know when Ive dissapointed him or upset him.. He communicates that to me communication is the key factor in our relationship.. just works for me

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Master said something yesterday that interested me. "You are our slave, but you're still our equal, and you always will be."

Mistress said something the day before that interested me. "I have this overwhelming desire to make you happy."

Such a departure from the usual way of looking at things and perhaps grounds for saying, "OMG, you're not really M/s! Who's serving who here?" but whatever. At its core, those two statements are exactly what my fairly unusual relationship with my Owners is. I am their equal; they want to make me happy.

But, to quote Mistress, I am still, to the hardcore depths of my soul, a slave.

My slave is below Me. she will always be below Me. But I will always treat her like an equal. Just because she is below Me doesn't mean I will treat her like a piece of crap. We're M/s but taking every part of Our relationship into account We are very much equal.

And of course, My happiness comes from her happiness and vice versa. As Homburg said I want My property happy and healthy. I want to see her happy and willing and ready to serve Me one hundred percent.

Do Masters have to be cruel to stay in power?

I don't believe so at all. I think sometimes the thought of not pleasing and disappointing a Master is a very powerful motivator.

The cruelest a Master has to get sometimes is to just say "bad girl".

 

[BiBunny]

Everything has gotten so intense, so fast. Is this how it normally is? Or is it because in spite of my sexual proclivities, I have no idea how to *not* be in control?

I practically flipped last night. I spent the evening watching one of my favorite movies with Master and Mistress. Then, we went to play for awhile before bed. It was intense (I keep using that word) and very emotional for me. I cried after it was over, which, by the way, is something I never do and begged them to keep me forever.

Mistress started feeling sick to her stomach, so after Master and I got her a little more comfortable, I went to bed. She wasn't the only one who felt sick. I did, too, but it was a different kind.

You see, my initial reaction to anything that gets too deep for me to handle is to run. My whole life has been full of superficial relationships because I'm apparently the epitome of the commitment-phobe. I have a friend who tells me I'm afraid to be happy. Who knows? Maybe he's right.

I was within a hair's breadth of packing all my things quietly while they slept, whispering goodbye at the door of their bedroom, leaving a note that said, "I'm sorry," and disappearing silently into the night. But that same friend who accuses me of being afraid of being happy texted me back and forth into the wee hours of the morning, begging me not to do it. The absolute only thing that kept me there was that he basically texted me until I was too sleepy to drive back home. I'm sure that was his intention.

I finally passed out, but I didn't sleep well last night. I woke up this morning and just stared at the ceiling. When Master came to get me out of bed as he does every morning before Mistress goes to work, he knew something was wrong. Mistress had to leave shortly thereafter, but Master put me in their bed, crawled in with me, and forced me to talk.

To try to keep this already long post from becoming even longer, I'll spare the details of the conversation. It was a long talk about my fear of needing this so much.

But what stood out--and was my whole reason for putting this little anecdote in this thread in the first place--was something he said at the end of the discussion.

"You know, it wouldn't matter if you ran away because you were afraid. We'd come to [town I live in] and kidnap you and bring you back here and keep you bound here with us until you came to your senses."

All I could think was, "They love me that much."

 

[catalina_francisco]

BiBunny, my husband thinks of me as an equal and wants me to be happy too.

But I'm still his slave. His priorities and desires always come first, they are not "equal" to mine in his mind. And he does not hold himself responsible for my happiness. (If I placed my happiness solely in his hands, I would not be happy. )


Do Masters have to be cruel to stay in power?

I don't think they do necessarily, though for some this is the only way it would work. I know in our relationship, it is very much understood, in fact reminded on an almost daily basis, that I am not his equal and I have no power. That does not mean I don't do and take care of a lot of areas of our life, but that is service and to his requirements, not equal or from a position of power so to speak.

As to happiness, he admits he finds pleasure in knowing I am not happy and will at times purposely make sure I am far from happy. Other times he will do something he knows will give me pleasure, make me happy, because he wants to and because it also serves to emphasize even more that my happiness is ultimately his to control regardless of what I might prefer.

It doesn't work for everyone, sometimes it doesn't work for us, but it is how he wants it at this point. Everyone has different needs, and every M/s relationship will have different parameters and expectations...most important is living your truth and not trying to live up to what someone else says or feels you should.

Catalina

 

[ultramarineblue]

Everything has gotten so intense, so fast. Is this how it normally is? Or is it because in spite of my sexual proclivities, I have no idea how to *not* be in control?

I practically flipped last night. I spent the evening watching one of my favorite movies with Master and Mistress. Then, we went to play for awhile before bed. It was intense (I keep using that word) and very emotional for me. I cried after it was over, which, by the way, is something I never do and begged them to keep me forever.

Mistress started feeling sick to her stomach, so after Master and I got her a little more comfortable, I went to bed. She wasn't the only one who felt sick. I did, too, but it was a different kind.

You see, my initial reaction to anything that gets too deep for me to handle is to run. My whole life has been full of superficial relationships because I'm apparently the epitome of the commitment-phobe. I have a friend who tells me I'm afraid to be happy. Who knows? Maybe he's right.

I was within a hair's breadth of packing all my things quietly while they slept, whispering goodbye at the door of their bedroom, leaving a note that said, "I'm sorry," and disappearing silently into the night. But that same friend who accuses me of being afraid of being happy texted me back and forth into the wee hours of the morning, begging me not to do it. The absolute only thing that kept me there was that he basically texted me until I was too sleepy to drive back home. I'm sure that was his intention.

I finally passed out, but I didn't sleep well last night. I woke up this morning and just stared at the ceiling. When Master came to get me out of bed as he does every morning before Mistress goes to work, he knew something was wrong. Mistress had to leave shortly thereafter, but Master put me in their bed, crawled in with me, and forced me to talk.

To try to keep this already long post from becoming even longer, I'll spare the details of the conversation. It was a long talk about my fear of needing this so much.

But what stood out--and was my whole reason for putting this little anecdote in this thread in the first place--was something he said at the end of the discussion.

"You know, it wouldn't matter if you ran away because you were afraid. We'd come to [town I live in] and kidnap you and bring you back here and keep you bound here with us until you came to your senses."

All I could think was, "They love me that much."

I completely understand the desire to run as fast and as far as you can when things get to scary. I've done that most of my life until lately. I still try it from time to time but am really working at not doing that any more.

 

[BiBunny]

I completely understand the desire to run as fast and as far as you can when things get to scary. I've done that most of my life until lately. I still try it from time to time but am really working at not doing that any more.

It's a bitch, isn't it? You have my sympathies and 100% understanding.

 

[ultramarineblue]

It's a bitch, isn't it? You have my sympathies and 100% understanding.

It sure is. At least you're getting started on it earlier than I did. Much applause to ya!

 

[Adakgirl]

Bi Bunny,
So the pure intensity of the raw emotions they brought out in you, scared the shit out of you because they exposed you, to yourself, exposed the emotions you had that you never knew existed ...as well as the emotions you keep so deep inside that you never allow anyone to see them...and their ability to do that to you, made you feel so openly vulnerable to them that you wanted to get the hell out of there...is that about right?

 

[Homburg]

Everything has gotten so intense, so fast. Is this how it normally is? Or is it because in spite of my sexual proclivities, I have no idea how to *not* be in control?

Pretty much. An awful lot of people are turned on by the idea of giving up control, and feel a burning need to do so. Yet when they get that exact situation right up in their face, the enormity of it is terrifying. The emotional nudity is beyond belief, the scrubbed-raw defenseless feeling is something that shakes you to the core. You feel as if your ass is hanging in mid-air, and the wind is tearing at your soul.

And? You cannot win if you do not play. Moreover, you cannot win big if you do not play likewise. Unfortunately, fear of success is just as tough as fear of failure. It can be a painful, difficult thing to work through. You will have to though. No way around it, as, well, you need this. You know it as well as I do, and as well as they do. You need it like you need air. Your problem is admitting to it.

One of the single hardest things you can possibly do is to look yourself in the metaphorical eye and admit your own weaknesses. You have to do it though. See, we are as much the product of our weaknesses as our strengths, and our weaknesses are often what gives us character, makes us interesting people. It's the flaws that make things interesting, not the perfections.

All I could think was, "They love me that much."

Bet that terrifies you too. It probably should. The day I collared MIS, she was all but shrieking terrified. She was pale, her pupils were dilated, her heart rate was high, all classic signs of serious fear response. And I told her afterwards that I would not have collared her if she wasn't afraid. If the enormity of the choice she was making was not deeply frightening, she hadn't thought it through enough to make that choice in an informed serious fashion.

Much like weaknesses and flaws, fear is a central component to our being. Everyone, and I mean everyone feels fear. The difference in people is how they react to it. The "brave" teenager that runs back into a burning building to save her little brother feels the same fear anyone else does. She just decides that saving little brother is more important than fear, and doesn't succumb to it. You can do the same.

Do not fuck this up.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Pretty much. An awful lot of people are turned on by the idea of giving up control, and feel a burning need to do so. Yet when they get that exact situation right up in their face, the enormity of it is terrifying. The emotional nudity is beyond belief, the scrubbed-raw defenseless feeling is something that shakes you to the core. You feel as if your ass is hanging in mid-air, and the wind is tearing at your soul.

And? You cannot win if you do not play. Moreover, you cannot win big if you do not play likewise. Unfortunately, fear of success is just as tough as fear of failure. It can be a painful, difficult thing to work through. You will have to though. No way around it, as, well, you need this. You know it as well as I do, and as well as they do. You need it like you need air. Your problem is admitting to it.

One of the single hardest things you can possibly do is to look yourself in the metaphorical eye and admit your own weaknesses. You have to do it though. See, we are as much the product of our weaknesses as our strengths, and our weaknesses are often what gives us character, makes us interesting people. It's the flaws that make things interesting, not the perfections.




Bet that terrifies you too. It probably should. The day I collared MIS, she was all but shrieking terrified. She was pale, her pupils were dilated, her heart rate was high, all classic signs of serious fear response. And I told her afterwards that I would not have collared her if she wasn't afraid. If the enormity of the choice she was making was not deeply frightening, she hadn't thought it through enough to make that choice in an informed serious fashion.

Much like weaknesses and flaws, fear is a central component to our being. Everyone, and I mean everyone feels fear. The difference in people is how they react to it. The "brave" teenager that runs back into a burning building to save her little brother feels the same fear anyone else does. She just decides that saving little brother is more important than fear, and doesn't succumb to it. You can do the same.

Do not fuck this up.

I know this wasn't directed at me but it caused a pretty strong reaction in me. The part about the teenager running into the building - that would be easy. It's when it becomes something about saving myself that it becomes difficult and maybe impossible feeling. I will get a few things going right and then before I know it I've found another way to be self-destructive. Right now that is manifesting itself in one of the two areas I've found the biggest success in lately. The other area, let's just say this morning it's taking everything I have to not run like hell. I do at least know the feeling of running will pass if I just allow it.

I don't find it hard to admit my weaknesses. It could also be that I just haven't faced the underlying weakness. I don't know if that's it though. I do tend to relish finding areas where I'm weak, ways to prove I don't deserve it whatever it is at the time. I just don't know what to do to change the weaknesses. I'm so tired of fighting the same old thing. I wish I could hide away for a few days but I can't.

Fear of success and fear of failure - at opposite ends of the spectrum. They sure can really fuck you up.

 

[Homburg]

Nihilistic self-destructive impulses are some of the hardest to counter and control. We all have self-destructive behaviours. Some are simply less obvious than others. Smoking, eating bad foods, not exercising, etc are examples of quietly self-destructive choices, but so is the impulse to flee from what is obviously a good thing, avoiding commitment, and avoiding intimacy.

That last one is key, and where people get tripped up. I think many people that claim to have a fear of commitment really don't. Honestly, if you can sign a lease on an apartment, take a steady job, join the military, live in the same town for year, etc, commitment itself may not be your problem. You problem may well be the intimacy that comes with a committed relationship. So it ain't the "I love you" that you fear, it's the "I know you."

See, everybody has secrets. Most times they're little things. Nitnoy stuff like that time you were attracted randomly to someone from your own sex when you identify as the straightest of arrows, or that time you cheated on a math test. Stuff that most people won't be fussed about, but that bother you. When you are in an intense, committed relationship, those are the sorts of things that the other person/s learn about you. And you might just feel like you are so flawed, that these little things that no one but you notice, are so bad that you are unworthy. And that seeing the true you might just make them run away.

I've faced down my own demons, and have had to stare the demons of others right in the eye. I've had MIS in the throws of a bi-polar mood swing look at me with murderous seething anger and refuse to let me touch her or even come near her. I let it slide, and stayed by her side anyway. It wasn't her fault, just a little chemical switch in her brain going awry. I love her, and that little chemical switch is part of her, so it behooves me to help her get it handled and survive the night more than it does for me to run away. Christ, what sort of a shitweed would I be if I did that, right?

Well, a lot of people can't believe that anyone would do the same for them. Sure, plenty of people won't, but no one will get that chance if you don't let them.

The other thing that people fear, and lump it into fear of commitment, is fear of loss. You may say that you want that person to hurt you, make you bleed, make you cry, make you feel debased and worthless, but you don't actually want to feel the searing worthlessness that comes with being left behind. And you fear that more than anything, even to the point of not forming attachments just so they can't be broken.

Again, this comes back to "You can't win if you don't play." I don't really understand the mindset that says I am miserable because I am single, but I'd rather be miserable and weepy forever than take a chance of getting my heart-broken once. Or even a dozen times. But I am not one to lose out on the good because I fear the bad. Sure, times exists when you don't play the game because the odds are shite, but to not play at all? No thanks.

Not trying to be derogatory, or pop-psychologist, but a lot of folks that have said "I am in touch with my weaknesses; I probe my weaknesses" are skimming the surface because of the masochistic joy it provides. The thrill of poking at a toothache with your tongue just to feel it is the same sort of thing. But, to continue the toothache analogy, prodding it with your tongue may keep you aware f it, but it does nothing to address it. And skimming the surface doesn't touch the serious stuff lying down deep.

Fortunately, you sound like you are aware of that possibility. If you can survive past your own emotional storms, you may well find something worth keeping.

 

[Homburg]

I don't really understand the mindset that says I am miserable because I am single, but I'd rather be miserable and weepy forever than take a chance of getting my heart-broken once.

As an aside, at one point in my life, I gave up on relationships. I was between them, had been for a while, and was basically tired of what I felt were my crap chances. This was well before I knew a single damned thing about women, sexuality, and my own proclivities. Anyway, I gave up, and within a week was asked out by a lovely young woman. I was taken aback, happily so, and we started to date. Wow, bad idea, she was psycho (really, lot sof people talk about psycho ex, she was), and it was a horrible idea to have gotten in with her.

Think about it for a sec, I'd given up on women and dating and resolved to live as a hermit. A woman found me, and the relationship went brutally south. What is the usual response to such things? Give up even harder, right? No, I didn't , and I'm glad, because I met viv during this time. She and I have been together for almost eighteen years.

"Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never-in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense." -Churchill

Though he should have added, "And you should probably question 'good' sense three or four times just in case."

Dare Greatly. - an explanation of my title

 

[ultramarineblue]

The other thing that people fear, and lump it into fear of commitment, is fear of loss. You may say that you want that person to hurt you, make you bleed, make you cry, make you feel debased and worthless, but you don't actually want to feel the searing worthlessness that comes with being left behind. And you fear that more than anything, even to the point of not forming attachments just so they can't be broken.

Not trying to be derogatory, or pop-psychologist, but a lot of folks that have said "I am in touch with my weaknesses; I probe my weaknesses" are skimming the surface because of the masochistic joy it provides. The thrill of poking at a toothache with your tongue just to feel it is the same sort of thing. But, to continue the toothache analogy, prodding it with your tongue may keep you aware f it, but it does nothing to address it. And skimming the surface doesn't touch the serious stuff lying down deep.

Fortunately, you sound like you are aware of that possibility. If you can survive past your own emotional storms, you may well find something worth keeping.

That bolded bit nailed it.

I don't consider that bit derogatory in the least. You say it as you see it and that's a quality to be admired. When I get to the serious stuff, I ask people who aren't going to bullshit me. When I think of it, most of my closest friends will tell me what I need to hear instead of what I want to hear which is why they are the people I go to when I need advice.

I just wish I knew if I were truly working through some of my real issues. Friends have told me that I seem different; that I handle problems differently. I just don't see it.

One other thing is that I just miss the obvious a lot of the time. I can see that I want to get from point A to point B but for the life of me can't figure out how to get there. Most other people will see a simple solution and if someone tells me one, I immediately understand why it would work. Often I can come up with better ways based on the suggested solution. I just can't get the first step worked out. This is very likely why I've pretty much avoided many many things in my life. I'm very good at setting myself up to avoid things which is not something I'm proud of.

 

[Homburg]

It's always easier to see the big picture when you aren't in the frame yourself. Think about it, If you are walking the streets of a city and your friend is on the observation deck of a nearby skyscraper, is your friend really more perceptive of the city? Nah, they just see the same streets from a different vantage. They see the patterns, you see the details.

I can't tell you how many times I've suggested some option that I thought was obvious and been told how insightful I was. I took the compliment, but didn't consider it all that deserved, especially when I can't easily do the same thing for myself.

It comes back to patterns and details. When you are in the mix, you see details. It's a survival trait. Details keep you from getting eaten by lions, and evolution breeds for that. When you view from outside, and aren't mire din that person's schedule, demanding mother, coffee addiction, etc, you don't sweat the details, and can see the patterns. Our friends are usually the best source for that because they aren't caught up in our minutiae, but know enough about you to see behavioural patterns and habits. Good friends will appraise you of the ones that are negative.

As to getting from A to B, I've often found that worrying to much about getting to B caused me to wind up at C with no idea how I got there. If the A and B are personality traits, my best advice is get to know point A deeply and profoundly. Hell, I would give the same advice to someone whose A and B are geographical points. Know it well before you choose to walk away from it. You learn more about yourself and your choices that way. After all, you wound up at A somehow. Best to know how you got there at minimum to be able to avoid winding up there again.

 

[BiBunny]

Bi Bunny,
So the pure intensity of the raw emotions they brought out in you, scared the shit out of you because they exposed you, to yourself, exposed the emotions you had that you never knew existed ...as well as the emotions you keep so deep inside that you never allow anyone to see them...and their ability to do that to you, made you feel so openly vulnerable to them that you wanted to get the hell out of there...is that about right?

Yep. That pretty much nailed it.

And, Homburg, there is much merit in everything you say. I think I'm over the hump, at least for the time being. I'm doing the best I can not to fuck this up.

I don't know what I would do if I lost the two of them.

 

[Adakgirl]

The other thing that people fear, and lump it into fear of commitment, is fear of loss. You may say that you want that person to hurt you, make you bleed, make you cry, make you feel debased and worthless, but you don't actually want to feel the searing worthlessness that comes with being left behind. And you fear that more than anything, even to the point of not forming attachments just so they can't be broken.

Exactly... I would say fear of loss goes hand in hand with fear of rejection Rejection is a very difficult thing to deal with. Being accepted is a basic need in all humans and most animals too. We spend a great amount of time and energy learning how to be acceptable to our society as a whole and to other people. In the beginning...and even now in the animal kingdom, being rejected by the group meant you might lose your chance at reproducing. It meant being left behind without protection, facing starvation and loss of your life. It's no wonder fear of loss and rejection is something we fear the most.

Fear of loss does not just mean fear of losing the person you have committed to and the relationship. It also includes fear of losing your self- esteem, fear of losing trust in your own decisions, fear of losing control....

 

[ultramarineblue]

It's always easier to see the big picture when you aren't in the frame yourself. Think about it, If you are walking the streets of a city and your friend is on the observation deck of a nearby skyscraper, is your friend really more perceptive of the city? Nah, they just see the same streets from a different vantage. They see the patterns, you see the details.

I can't tell you how many times I've suggested some option that I thought was obvious and been told how insightful I was. I took the compliment, but didn't consider it all that deserved, especially when I can't easily do the same thing for myself.

It comes back to patterns and details. When you are in the mix, you see details. It's a survival trait. Details keep you from getting eaten by lions, and evolution breeds for that. When you view from outside, and aren't mire din that person's schedule, demanding mother, coffee addiction, etc, you don't sweat the details, and can see the patterns. Our friends are usually the best source for that because they aren't caught up in our minutiae, but know enough about you to see behavioural patterns and habits. Good friends will appraise you of the ones that are negative.

As to getting from A to B, I've often found that worrying to much about getting to B caused me to wind up at C with no idea how I got there. If the A and B are personality traits, my best advice is get to know point A deeply and profoundly. Hell, I would give the same advice to someone whose A and B are geographical points. Know it well before you choose to walk away from it. You learn more about yourself and your choices that way. After all, you wound up at A somehow. Best to know how you got there at minimum to be able to avoid winding up there again.

Being the outsider seeing the obvious is pretty what my job is about. I've been working at learning to guide the people into figuring it out on their own through q&a instead of me just telling them the solution. No wonder they get so frustrated with me at times.

As far as the analogy with A to B, yes it does translate to directions and personality traits. As far as the personality traits, it's the same one that keeps manifesting itself in a variety of ways. I'm just now starting to realize that. So the thing is to figure out what's underneath it all and work on that. I foresee lots of emotional storms in the forecast. It will be hell going through but I know that it will be worth it in the end. I also know that once that is worked through something else will replace it. Funny how life does that.

 

[Homburg]

If it was too easy, it would be boring

As to Q&A, I'm a big fan of Socrates. He did it so very well.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I'm not opposed to hard, I just want to be able to see a couple of steps in front. I must admit, I do want to see where the current path will lead if I continue in the same direction. Just a wee bit impatient at times. One of my friends takes great joy in making me wait.

Socrates rocks!

 

[Homburg]

MIS and viv will tell you that I have elevated making people wait to an art, and damned near a fetish.