the marks of a slave

[ownedsubgal]

We still have sex. But only when he wants to get off, or when I am rejected and so desperate he offers a stand-in. Never as a shared romantic longing.

No. That is now reserved solely for others. And is, and will always be, met with discipline and punishment, if such an inaccurate word can be used to describe that cathartic experience.

We go out as friends, removing our wedding rings.

There is a freshness in even the most brutal honesty that is disarming.

just curious, but what exactly is sex "as a shared romantic longing?" if it makes you feel any better, i don't think that's anything i've ever experienced with anyone, Daddy included, and we are very, very much still in love.

are you saying that the sex you have with other men results in discipline and punishment, even though it is permitted?

 

[intothewoods]

just curious, but what exactly is sex "as a shared romantic longing?" if it makes you feel any better, i don't think that's anything i've ever experienced with anyone, Daddy included, and we are very, very much still in love.

are you saying that the sex you have with other men results in discipline and punishment, even though it is permitted?

I am curious too. I took it to mean nothing more than sex between two people who are in love, as opposed to a couple who love each other but are no longer in love.

 

[eastern sun]

All because of Al-Anon?

I'm surprised to read this because my impression of you two is of a couple that does share a romantic love for each other. I mean, based on your exchanges here - I'm clearly an expert.

Al-Anon pierces a certain denial that can develop around relationships.

We have been together a long time. Our lives are deeply entwined, and we love each other very much. We are life-partners in every sense of the phrase.

When we got married, like many, we built our relationship on romantic ideals. But our sexual dynamics are not romantic, and never have been. You may have seen comments in this thread, like "you want it to be wholesome, but it's not." I find it very threatening to fully embrace what we are together.

But we have made it official between ourselves. And my husband thought it would be a good idea for me to write it down.

"Our sexual relationship has been over for many, many years."

 

[eastern sun]

just curious, but what exactly is sex "as a shared romantic longing?" if it makes you feel any better, i don't think that's anything i've ever experienced with anyone, Daddy included, and we are very, very much still in love.

are you saying that the sex you have with other men results in discipline and punishment, even though it is permitted?

The desire I have for other men results in discipline and punishment. Sex is permitted.

Though our relationships are different in many ways, I do think you and I share similar sexual experiences with our primary partners. Like you, I take great pleasure in pleasing him, but rarely - if ever - cum.

I do cum with others, though. Easily and forcefully. And it is that difference between my physical response to my husband and my physical response to others that is key.

 

[eastern sun]

I am curious too. I took it to mean nothing more than sex between two people who are in love, as opposed to a couple who love each other but are no longer in love.

You see it running through our culture - those romantic ideals of two becoming one - of love transcending physical boundaries and obstacles - of soul-mates - of binding love that conquers even death - of fidelity and honor - of complete and wholly satisfying partnership.

I want to paint our relationship in those colors. I always have. (In all honesty, I still do. I find it very threatening to let go of those ideals.)

But there is something beyond them. : ) And it is reality.

 

[eastern sun]

.

.

I you.

 

[HottieMama]

And it is that difference between my physical response to my husband and my physical response to others that is key.

I relate to this very well when I compare my physical response to HusDom and my physical response to any woman I am with...and especially my current girlfriend. *fucks with my head*

 

[eastern sun]

I relate to this very well when I compare my physical response to HusDom and my physical response to any woman I am with...and especially my current girlfriend. *fucks with my head*

Sometimes I think I'm fortunate that he gets off on it. It means I don't have to keep it a secret.

Sometimes I think it's only true because he gets off on it. "Watching the girl he wants in someone else's arms" has been an intense sexual trigger for him since well before we met.

Though the dynamics have been part of our relationship since the beginning, I only acted on it freely when I formally became his slave. The mental structure, the binding ties, have been extremely important to us as we violate emotional boundaries.

But it totally fucks with my head too. Because my head is always wrapped up in a search for some elusive sexual love affair (which he totally encourages), while my body is bound and smacked and pinched and pounded. And the interplay between the two - the way the search for romance and its inevitable frustration is both undercut and supported by the physical and emotional realities of masochistic slavery . . . well, It just works.

And I really, really like a good fuck. Whether it's my body. Or my head that's getting fucked with.

 

[rida]

Sometimes I think I'm fortunate that he gets off on it. It means I don't have to keep it a secret.

Sometimes I think it's only true because he gets off on it. "Watching the girl he wants in someone else's arms" has been an intense sexual trigger for him since well before we met.

Though the dynamics have been part of our relationship since the beginning, I only acted on it freely when I formally became his slave. The mental structure, the binding ties, have been extremely important to us as we violate emotional boundaries.

But it totally fucks with my head too. Because my head is always wrapped up in a search for some elusive sexual love affair (which he totally encourages), while my body is bound and smacked and pinched and pounded. And the interplay between the two - the way the search for romance and its inevitable frustration is both undercut and supported by the physical and emotional realities of masochistic slavery . . . well, It just works.

And I really, really like a good fuck. Whether it's my body. Or my head that's getting fucked with.

Hubby has always had a similar desire for me being with other men. I made it clear to him that I would act on both his desires and my own poly inclinations, ony if I was free to develop emotional bonds/relationships and he agreed on it.

My first outside experience, being naive and all, I developed a crush right away. Hubby was taken aback by it at first, but then discovered that he actually prefers if I get all attached to the guys I fuck rather than be ambivalent about them. Too bad that now that I'm a bit more seasoned, I discovered that I actually enjoy my casual fuck for what they are: sport fucks.

So Hubby is being frustrated in his desire of seeing me sexually hot and bothered by another guy. The only relationship that has deep emotional meaning to me (in a very emotional masochist way) is with the Sadist (someone I pursued for myself, and not for Hubby's pleasure), and that is not about sex, at least not mine, so it does not fit the bill.

There are always new people coming and going, and there are two guys right now that are gaining meaning in my life, one as a friend, the other as a mentor/Pygmalion kind of thing. And they too will not fit with my Hubby's desires.

I wonder if it is a subconscious rebellion to Hubby's authority...

(P.S. I basically never cum with sex. I'm ok with that. Hubby is ok with that. The Sadist don't care, and the fuck buddies don't know. ... I'm realizing my sex life is full of their pleasure and void of mine.)

*snip*
There is a freshness in even the most brutal honesty that is disarming.

Indeed.
To a new beginning.

 

[intothewoods]

Al-Anon pierces a certain denial that can develop around relationships.

We have been together a long time. Our lives are deeply entwined, and we love each other very much. We are life-partners in every sense of the phrase.

When we got married, like many, we built our relationship on romantic ideals. But our sexual dynamics are not romantic, and never have been. You may have seen comments in this thread, like "you want it to be wholesome, but it's not." I find it very threatening to fully embrace what we are together.

But we have made it official between ourselves. And my husband thought it would be a good idea for me to write it down.

"Our sexual relationship has been over for many, many years."

You see it running through our culture - those romantic ideals of two becoming one - of love transcending physical boundaries and obstacles - of soul-mates - of binding love that conquers even death - of fidelity and honor - of complete and wholly satisfying partnership.

I want to paint our relationship in those colors. I always have. (In all honesty, I still do. I find it very threatening to let go of those ideals.)

But there is something beyond them. : ) And it is reality.

Hmmmm. Like a lot of submissive/masochistic women, I'm not all that into the cliches of romance. I mean, I believe or assume you can have the darkness (i.e., the un-wholesomeness referred to above) in a relationship where two people are in love (I would call this a romantic relationship -- in the generic sense of the word -- but clearly this term is loaded!). As far as your second post goes, I know what you mean, but how much of this is mythical and how much of it is attainable in a long term relationship? I don't think most people can be wholly satisfied by one person -- you need friends, career, your own pursuits, passions, or whatever. I don't know. I'm still discovering what love is, I guess. I don't think of it in soaring terms for myself, but I feel like I'm in love nonetheless.

I you too btw! I don't mean to sound like there's anything wrong with your realization - you know I'm fascinated by what love looks like after ten years, twenty years, etc.

 

[eastern sun]

To a new beginning.

Yes. To new beginnings.

(Is it too early to ask what directions the mentor/pygmalion kind of thing is taking? I have to admit. . . I love those experiences.)

 

[eastern sun]

My first outside experience, being naive and all, I developed a crush right away. Hubby was taken aback by it at first, but then discovered that he actually prefers if I get all attached to the guys I fuck rather than be ambivalent about them. Too bad that now that I'm a bit more seasoned, I discovered that I actually enjoy my casual fuck for what they are: sport fucks.

So Hubby is being frustrated in his desire of seeing me sexually hot and bothered by another guy.

He says it isn't true, but I've sometimes felt that he takes secret pleasure when my desires are thwarted, and I return to him with my tail between my legs, chastened and chagrined.

 

[rida]

He says it isn't true, but I've sometimes felt that he takes secret pleasure when my desires are thwarted, and I return to him with my tail between my legs, chastened and chagrined.

Indeed. I think it reaffirm their hold and power on us, driving home that we have nowhere else to run, when all is said and done.

And after having pushed me and prodded me and expressed his desire for me to find what I want, I've also felt that Hubby actually enjoys letting me know that he has the power of taking it all away at whim once I've actually grown close and fond of someone.

(Is it too early to ask what directions the mentor/pygmalion kind of thing is taking? I have to admit. . . I love those experiences.)

Honestly, I am not sure myself where it is all going.

He is someone I've met through my love of rope, and he is the one that has been giving me all the chances I've had to meet famous Nawashi and being tied by them.

I know he likes me, and he has expressed as much. I know I feel his dominance when he, rarely, exercise it on me. But he has not asked anything of me yet, and if I did not know better, I would believe I'm getting a free ride. (He has not even asked for sex, nor simply accepted a blow job. And I have offered ... lol).

But for how cute and entertaining my company can be, it is hard to believe that someone of his caliber has no other scope in indulging me with luxurious dinners, and by bringing me into the tight knit (and I'm realizing high drama) world of rope.

I decided that I'm going to go with the flow and see where it goes.
Hubby has been asking (pestering more likely) to know how far and how much I'm willing to give to Pygmalion guy, and I've been avoiding answering. Partly because I don't know what I can give considering my prior commitment and partly because I'd rather not put anything in words that could create expectations that could be crushed.

 

[eastern sun]

Indeed. I think it reaffirm their hold and power on us, driving home that we have nowhere else to run, when all is said and done.

And after having pushed me and prodded me and expressed his desire for me to find what I want, I've also felt that Hubby actually enjoys letting me know that he has the power of taking it all away at whim once I've actually grown close and fond of someone.

Yes.

Honestly, I am not sure myself where it is all going.

He is someone I've met through my love of rope, and he is the one that has been giving me all the chances I've had to meet famous Nawashi and being tied by them.

I know he likes me, and he has expressed as much. I know I feel his dominance when he, rarely, exercise it on me. But he has not asked anything of me yet, and if I did not know better, I would believe I'm getting a free ride. (He has not even asked for sex, nor simply accepted a blow job. And I have offered ... lol).

But for how cute and entertaining my company can be, it is hard to believe that someone of his caliber has no other scope in indulging me with luxurious dinners, and by bringing me into the tight knit (and I'm realizing high drama) world of rope.

I decided that I'm going to go with the flow and see where it goes.
Hubby has been asking (pestering more likely) to know how far and how much I'm willing to give to Pygmalion guy, and I've been avoiding answering. Partly because I don't know what I can give considering my prior commitment and partly because I'd rather not put anything in words that could create expectations that could be crushed.

And yes! Oh, rida. He always wants me to characterize my relationships with other people before they've been defined. And I don't want to hang those heavy expectations on interactions that are still tentative, exploratory, "in process." It kills me. Because he always draws it out of me - the desires and fantasies I harbor - and most of them will never be realized beyond the moments he and I are sharing.

Then he treats me as though they've already taken place.

 

[eastern sun]

Hmmmm. Like a lot of submissive/masochistic women, I'm not all that into the cliches of romance. I mean, I believe or assume you can have the darkness (i.e., the un-wholesomeness referred to above) in a relationship where two people are in love (I would call this a romantic relationship -- in the generic sense of the word -- but clearly this term is loaded!). As far as your second post goes, I know what you mean, but how much of this is mythical and how much of it is attainable in a long term relationship? I don't think most people can be wholly satisfied by one person -- you need friends, career, your own pursuits, passions, or whatever. I don't know. I'm still discovering what love is, I guess. I don't think of it in soaring terms for myself, but I feel like I'm in love nonetheless.

You have always been thoughtful and mature, itw.

But I do think submissive/masochistic women can get caught up in the idealization of love (or D/s or M/s). I certainly have. And it's led me to form some pretty unattainable ideas of what "should" be happening in my relationships.

One of the great benefits of sticking with someone over time is that you get to experience the reality behind all those illusions. And reality is so much messier, smellier, tastier, tangible, boring, painful and vivid, it takes great courage to stay engaged. Not something I have a lot of, frankly. I'm really pretty timid.

He speaks of soaring romance to refer to those very exciting moments when people think they've found a partner who will complete them, moments filled with lofty hopes and thick desire.

Love after 25 years contains all the moments those lofty hopes were dashed, all the falls, the failures, the disappointments, the cruelties. The insults and injuries. It is big enough to hold even its own absence with a smile.

I would have been afraid 25 years ago if he told me one day "our sexual relationship is over." Today, I'm kind of curious what's going to happen.

 

[DamianCain]

12345

 

[intothewoods]

You have always been thoughtful and mature, itw.

But I do think submissive/masochistic women can get caught up in the idealization of love (or D/s or M/s).

Oh yeah we do. I didn't express myself well before, did I? We do have romantic ideals, they just look a little different.

One of the great benefits of sticking with someone over time is that you get to experience the reality behind all those illusions. And reality is so much messier, smellier, tastier, tangible, boring, painful and vivid, it takes great courage to stay engaged. Not something I have a lot of, frankly. I'm really pretty timid.

He speaks of soaring romance to refer to those very exciting moments when people think they've found a partner who will complete them, moments filled with lofty hopes and thick desire.

Love after 25 years contains all the moments those lofty hopes were dashed, all the falls, the failures, the disappointments, the cruelties. The insults and injuries. It is big enough to hold even its own absence with a smile.

I would have been afraid 25 years ago if he told me one day "our sexual relationship is over." Today, I'm kind of curious what's going to happen.

Thank you for this.

 

[DamianCain]

You have always been thoughtful and mature, itw.

But I do think submissive/masochistic women can get caught up in the idealization of love (or D/s or M/s). I certainly have. And it's led me to form some pretty unattainable ideas of what "should" be happening in my relationships.

One of the great benefits of sticking with someone over time is that you get to experience the reality behind all those illusions. And reality is so much messier, smellier, tastier, tangible, boring, painful and vivid, it takes great courage to stay engaged. Not something I have a lot of, frankly. I'm really pretty timid.

He speaks of soaring romance to refer to those very exciting moments when people think they've found a partner who will complete them, moments filled with lofty hopes and thick desire.

Love after 25 years contains all the moments those lofty hopes were dashed, all the falls, the failures, the disappointments, the cruelties. The insults and injuries. It is big enough to hold even its own absence with a smile.

I would have been afraid 25 years ago if he told me one day "our sexual relationship is over." Today, I'm kind of curious what's going to happen.

Dude. Firstly, you vastly underestimate the quality and extent of your courage. I've watched you through thick and thin for more than a quarter century, and you've always stuck. In the thick you kept moving, and in the thin you held your ground.

And not once did I see you leave your values by the side of the road in a wrinkled, greasy paper bag. (I've seen me do that a few times, but that's another story. And completely justified every time.)

I really do wish you luck in finding the "soaring romance" that seems to elude just about everybody over 30. I’m not so sure, though, that idealized love is unsustainable because it’s too dizzying for quotidian existence. Instead, as a health care professional, my guess is that it's physiological. 13 year olds just have us beat when it comes to hormonal blood products like estrogen and testosterone. Think of the irresistible lure those middle schoolers from the past still have over us. Think of what I'd do today for just one kiss from Susan ##%$$@#, that bitch who couldn't even remember my name when I ran into her a few years ago. I won't lay out the exact lengths I'd go to for that kiss, but lets just say you'd be gasping your last breath baby.

If there is a way to recapture puppy love (alas, perhaps the greatest love of all), my sense is that being submissive to a near stranger might be your best bet. Excruciating pain, bizarrely claustrophobic confinement and blindfolded in utter blackness without familiarity with when or how it will end could be almost as intense as playing "Red Rover" in the deep end, in 1972, with sweet Jody XOXOX.

If there is a God, that big jolt of adrenaline is an adequate substitute for teen-girl estrogen.

But whether it is or not, time honored love offers profoundly more than anything you could hope from even the most stunning flash of "soaring love."

You might not understand too much about your bravery, but you get to go to bed every night with a man who knows how truly courageous you are.

And we get to love our kids together. And drift off to sleep at night, knowing we won't have to wake up alone for the unknown of every single new day. And we know each other so well that, while we might have some regrets, both of us possess at least one little patch of world where we can exist without too much shame.

And...oh yeah...I make you cum better than any of those guys.

"Surprise Surprise," huh?

Not that it's my touch or my cock that does it. It isn't. I know it took all of 30 seconds of a new hand on your pussy to remind you "how good an orgasm can really feel."

And I know that same sort of thing happened, over and over again, with different men.

But I also know it wouldn't have happened if you didn't have me back home to compare them with.

And I'm in shorter supply.

 

[HottieMama]

one little patch of world where we can exist without too much shame

I love that.....

 

[Keroin]

This current topic has given me an idea for a thread.

 

[smartpet]

Almost speechless

Eastern Sun...thank you so much for this thread.

 

[eastern sun]

Dude.

Man, oh man. He called me "dude."

(After our daughter and her friends started using that word to address each other, it briefly slipped into my vocabulary. I was not - under any circumstances - allowed to call him "dude.")

 

[eastern sun]

I've learned how to be comfortably invisible.

It used to bother me when I was overlooked or ignored in social situations. I wanted to both completely disappear and draw attention to myself, even while the thought of either option made me cringe. And therein lay my social anxiety. The rapid shift from one pole to the other has a paralyzing effect.

Tonight, in a crowd where I am at best only an acquaintance, I was almost completely invisible. My son's teacher approached the woman next to me, praising her son, and never acknowledged my existence, though we've spoken on a few occasions.

If I put my slave shoes on in those moments, I am completely comfortable. I have no need to make myself larger or smaller than I actually am.

 

[subElizabeth]

.....

 

[BiBunny]

Some of the posts in this thread make me really sad.