Serious Issue of Rape

[MissTaken]

Hmm interesting.

"No" still means "No", in my mind.

Adn I agree completely with Goddessemi with regard to why teens shouldn't have sex. If they don't have the self control to manage their behavior or have the judgement to say what they mean in due time, they aren't ready to make that decision.

Yes, she is culpable as well. However, nature is a pretty poor excuse for rape. Any rapist will tell you that "nature", their angry, violent, controlling "nature" took over during the act.

Pfft.

As for the arguement of being close to coming and told to stop, how many women have masturbated themselves becasue they have been told "No?" Men, as well?

As for the conviction, it isn't "He said, she said." There has to be more evidence than that for a rape conviction in order to avoid exactly those superfluous allegations being made. Cooberating evidence has to exist unless of course, the boy pled guilty to a lesser charge. Even then, no decent lawyer would have him plead unless there was a strong case against him.

I do wonder though, was he convicted of statutory rape? In that sense, it doesn't matter what she said. If she is under a certain age she can't legally give consent.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

When you are 16 years old at a party. 90% of the way through with sex, and all that is left is the orgasm, and you hear the word 'stop', it could have all sorts of meanings. It could mean "This position isn't comfortable"; it could mean "don't cum in me"; it could mean "I think I hear someone coming", it could mean " Let's finish this in a more private place".

 

[MissTaken]

I agree with emi and RH. What a bullshit charge. She willingly goes along with it, til he's already inside her, and then decides she doesn't want to? He's a kid, for god's sake - how much self control can one seriously expect him to have in a case like that?

I wonder how culpable the parents have been made to feel?

If there is any reason to believe they could have prevented the entire thing, I wonder........

 

[MissTaken]

When you are 16 years old at a party. 90% of the way through with sex, and all that is left is the orgasm, and you hear the word 'stop', it could have all sorts of meanings. It could mean "This position isn't comfortable"; it could mean "don't cum in me"; it could mean "I think I hear someone coming", it could mean " Let's finish this in a more private place".

And you ask!

 

[RawHumor]

However, nature is a pretty poor excuse for rape. Any rapist will tell you that "nature", their angry, violent, controlling "nature" took over during the act.

There's a difference between going off in the woods with someone who wants to have sex with you and stalking a victim and violently attacking her.

 

[MissTaken]

There's a difference between going off in the woods with someone who wants to have sex with you and stalking a victim and violently attacking her.

Is there a difference between raping someone you took out for the evening just because she let you take her home and kiss her good night?

It is all nature...the nature arguement doesn't hold water. That is my only point.

 

[Freya]

RH, that last comment sounds really bad when combined with your sig.

 

[RawHumor]

RH, that last comment sounds really bad when combined with your sig.

LOL

Good point.

MissT, I'm just saying that RAPE is a big word. If you invite me in for a nightcap that's not the same as inviting me to have sex with you.

If you give me a kiss good night, that's not the same as inviting me to have sex with you.

If you invite me to have sex with you, well that's inviting me to have sex with you.

 

[plasticman33]

Don't forget true rape is a crime of violence against a woman, it has very little to do with a lustful tryst by two willing teenagers. Did she say no 10 seconds before the inevitable?? Good grief, give me a break!

 

[Guest]

I lost interest in this thread on the page one.

Keep talking among yourselves.

 

[MissTaken]

Don't forget true rape is a crime of violence against a woman, it has very little to do with a lustful tryst by two willing teenagers. Did she say no 10 seconds before the inevitable?? Good grief, give me a break!

The article seems pretty barren of facts.

That is why I am wondering about statutory rape.

I would still expect anyone I am with to stop whenever I say stop. Ack! What comes to mind is a situation wherein there is some pain or something, since I would never start fucking soemone and stop otherwise. I have had to say stop well into a fuck fest and it stopped.

Really.

It is possible.

 

[HeavyStick]

Don't forget true rape is a crime of violence against a woman, it has very little to do with a lustful tryst by two willing teenagers. Did she say no 10 seconds before the inevitable?? Good grief, give me a break!

Rape is a crime of power, revenge, and/or hate.

More men are raped than women, just because it happens in prison doesn't mean it's ok or should be forgotten or overlooked.

 

[HeavyStick]

I lost interest in this thread on the page one.

Keep talking among yourselves.

We lost interest in you May 2002.

 

[RawHumor]

I know that it's possible. I've had my share of anal experimentation in which I was REALLY enjoying myself but she wasn't comfortable at the time. I stopped. We cooled down.

Should he have stopped? Definitely.

Did he rape her? I don't believe so.

There's a difference.

 

[Frimost]

It is all nature...the nature arguement doesn't hold water. That is my only point

Oh BULLSHIT! lol
In prior instances criminals may have tried to rationalize raping unwilling participants and violently beating them and forcing them to do vile things as their nature. Rape is not a crime of passion but a crime of power and dominance. Rape is about violence SEX is about SEX, TWO different things here.

THIS is so TOTALLY different! A woman giving consent, both aroused, in the ACT of fucking, his dick inside her pistoning away... THEN she says no? HA! Sex, just as hunger is nature! And when you are FUCKING is takes over just as sleep, eating, or going to the bathroom it would be VERY, VERY, VERY hard for ANYONE adult to stop much less some young horny kid.

 

[Mona Lisa]

No DOES mean no, but come on, people.

Ladies, let me tie you to the bed and lap at your clit just a little too slowly for you to reach an orgasm, playing with your nipples and doing everything else just right at the same time. Then let me increase the tempo until you're RIGHT on the edge of an orgasm. Then let me just walk away from you.

Would you enjoy that?

Probably not, but you're missing the point. The more appropriate question is would be to ask if we would force you continue once you started to walk away.

Oh, assuming the information provided by the girl is accurate (which I know is arguable, but those are the details we have to work with, and the ones the decision was based on), she didn't wait until he was right on the edge, it took him another five minutes. In my personal experience with men, anyone who is still five minutes away from getting off is more than capable of pulling out and finishing himself off. If he chooses not to, he is chosing to rape her from that moment on.

 

[HeavyStick]

Should he have stopped? Definitely.

Did he rape her? I don't believe so.

There's a difference.

I agree.

But I took a definitive stance to protect true victims.

At what point and time is it rape? (rhetorical)

 

[Frimost]

Hmm..several people beat me to the punch on many of my points.
In any case stopping is a case of easier said then done. It would be worse IMO then not eating for several days and while you are feasting on your favorite food I suddenly come over and grab it away from you and if you attempted to stop me from doing so charging you with assault and battery.

 

[knightshadow]

Here's a link to the article for those interested. Also in case I missed any details

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA030109_Calif_Rape_Ruling.html[/URL]

 

[bridgeburner]

Good point, Stick

I read a very compelling article arguing that the single most effective thing we might do to decrease the number of women raped in the U.S. is to decrease the number of men raped in prison.



Re: this situation in particular

It sticks in my craw because I think the girl was irresponsible and then rewarded for it BUT at the same time I have to side with the court's decision. Not because I think the boy in this case deserves to go to prison, but because I still think somebody who takes a tenner off you when you tried to give them a five is a thief. Even if you told him you'd give him ten to begin with, it's still your money that you're giving away.

Shitty and makes me all kinds of mad, but it's the only way I can see that the law can be consistently applied.

 

[intrigued]

I'm not sure about this one. It is really 'he said, she said', isn't it? How did she tell him to stop, how long did he keep going, what conversation happened afterwards, were either of them drinking? It isn't just black and white, because even though 'no means no', she started out by saying 'yes'.

Without irrefutable evidence of a violent attack, when you get right down to it, it's always "he said, she said", no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

(Speaking in general to anyone...)
The fact that the girl was honest enough to admit that she had agreed to it initially and had even allowed penetration, yet changed her mind, speaks volumes to me. If she didn't truly believe this was rape, wouldn't she have denied, denied, denied...just to make her case? To be that honest, knowing it could very well hang her, just tells me that she believes she was raped.
Sex involves mutual consent for every second of the act. If your partner asked you to stop for whatever reason, would you?

If you're a parent, ask yourself this. If it were your daughter, do you think she should carry on with something that she started but regrets, and wants to stop...or do you think she should allow him to "give in to nature"? I'll be damned if I want my daughter to lay there in agony, stressing over whether or not to stop someone from doing something that can never be undone, and that she does not want with all her being.

And to answer the original question, "no means no", "stop means stop".

 

[Frimost]

You have to take responsibility for your actions here.

If this were the other way around the man would have been laughed out of court.

The same thinking behind the ruling here is the same patrimonious thinking that women are fickle and must be coddled by the law because they need not be responsible for their decisions because they are weaker then men.

 

[HeavyStick]

She says she repeated her request two more times. The young woman said he then asked her to give him a minute and then continued for about 90 seconds. The whole incident lasted four to five minutes, according to the young woman in the case.

Rape. That's what it is.

If anyone says different I hope you are never in that position.

The person(s) who contributed the alcohol should be charged and tried.

 

[knightshadow]

If you're a parent, ask yourself this. If it were your daughter, do you think she should carry on with something that she started but regrets, and wants to stop...or do you think she should allow him to "give in to nature"? I'll be damned if I want my daughter to lay there in agony, stressing over whether or not to stop someone from doing something that can never be undone, and that she does not want with all her being.

And to answer the original question, "no means no", "stop means stop". [/B][/QUOTE]

Interesting thought. Playing the devil's advocate.

What if she had climaxed? ( I think someone earlier hinted at this) Is it still the same thing?

Also, suppose the act had been completed by both parties, and days later she regrets it and decides to press the issue.

I think I'm just worried that at some point you could cross a line as to what's fair and just.

 

[Lancecastor]

Perhaps one message here is that 16 year olds should not be putting or receiving any penii inside a body, as they are emotionally ill-equipped to engage in such activities.

Lance