Public play

[JMohegan]

While I agree with the sentiment (and would probably do the same) I hope this never happens! I cam imagine the explanations being most... embarrassing, for all concerned.

Embarrassed isn't the word I'd use to describe what happens.

I've been interrupted while in predator mode, chasing a female through the woods. It's not embarrassing; it's fucking terrifying. Because here you are, at the height of full on adrenaline aggression, and then suddenly have to pivot and convince the people who just stepped in your path that there isn't a crime in progress.

As for the times when I've been the one intervening - involving date rape, stranger assault, and DV situations - without exception, the guys have been hell pissed.

 

[ownedsubgal]

If I see male-on-female violence of any kind, without clear indication of the female's consent to the scene, whether on a balcony far above or across the room in a bar, I consider myself honor-bound to intervene.

Whether that means calling the cops, or grabbing the guy by the scruff of the neck, or something else, would depend on the circumstances.

just curious, but what would you have to see to feel that there was "clear indication of the female's consent?"

 

[unknooown]

just curious, but what would you have to see to feel that there was "clear indication of the female's consent?"

I'm wondering this as well.

Given that I lack self-control I've more or less come to terms with the fact that I may just end up spending a night in jail at some point. Not necessarily because of something sexual, and it's not like I walk around in public beating the shit out of my girlfriend (nor do I do that in private for that matter) but I've been know to get huffy and grab her by the arm or something similar.

The results I get when this happens are interesting. When we're in Oslo people (other men) are more likely to ask her if she's all right. And again, let me stress that I'm just grabbing her by the arm, not hitting her or screaming or anything like that. The two times someone intervened were pretty tame. The first I pulled her out of the car by her arm. The second time she stepped into the street without looking so I pulled her back, and then because I was angry that she scared me I yanked her up onto the sidewalk and sort of pulled her along until someone stopped us. Both times the guys were polite enough, and you could tell they were kind of embarrassed for approaching us, but once she assured them everything was fine and they apologized and left us alone. Both times I told them there was no need to apologize, that I like to think I'd do the same thing if I saw a similar situation. Really, though, I probably wouldn't.

In New York and Philadelphia things are different. I could probably beat her up on the street with little to no intervention (depending on where exactly we were, of course). I've been rougher with her more often in both cities with zero consequences. Still, it's not something I'm particularly comfortable with, though I do very much enjoy it on a primal level.

 

[unknooown]

I would also like to add that perhaps people are more comfortable approaching me than other men because I'm just about the least intimidating presence...in the world?

In fact, my close friends call me Twink. So that could have something to do with it.

 

[JMohegan]

just curious, but what would you have to see to feel that there was "clear indication of the female's consent?"

If she's not trying to get away, but has clear opportunity to do so, I'd usually consider that to be indicative of consent.

If she gives an appropriate response to "need help?" or "you okay with what he's doing?" then I consider that indicative too.

 

[ownedsubgal]

If she's not trying to get away, but has clear opportunity to do so, I'd usually consider that to be indicative of consent.

If she gives an appropriate response to "need help?" or "you okay with what he's doing?" then I consider that indicative too.

thanks for answering, and that sounds appropriate imo. though both things you mentioned...not attempting to get away when there is opportunity, and verbally declining any offered assistance, can also indicate extreme fear of her partner, or mental conditioning that she has no other options. i would actually assume this if i encountered such a couple in public, however i tend to read into such things far more than the average passerby.

i am fortunate that in my experiences the vanilla public tends to think more like you than like myself on the public displays of violence thing. imo it is the reason Daddy has never encountered any issues with others attempting to intervene when he has physically reprimanded or abused me in public.

 

[JMohegan]

thanks for answering, and that sounds appropriate imo. though both things you mentioned...not attempting to get away when there is opportunity, and verbally declining any offered assistance, can also indicate extreme fear of her partner, or mental conditioning that she has no other options.

DV is tough.

I once saw a guy slapping around a woman who just stood there and took it, with a beaten dog look. Very chilling to witness. I asked if she needed help, and she just kept looking down and shaking her head. Guy started yelling at me. He was total dick. I walked away and called the cops, but don't know if they ever did anything.

 

[eastern sun]

I was in a situation yesterday morning where my husband was humiliating me in public. We were in a restaurant, and he even threw a plate (against the cushioned bench of the booth) and other items. The restaurant was practically empty but it certainly caught the attention of the wait staff.

Because he seemed volatile, they didn't approach him. They kept making eye contact with me to figure out what they should do. And I kept communicating as well as I could - through the nature of my eye contact - that it was okay. That we were okay.

He wasn't hurting me or damaging any of their property. But it's an awkward moment, because I needed to signal to him that I understood the seriousness of the situation and the reasons for his actions - which were meant to be urgent and corrective, while at the same time signaling to the people around us that everything was ok and didn't warrant intervention.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I was in a situation yesterday morning where my husband was humiliating me in public. We were in a restaurant, and he even threw a plate (against the cushioned bench of the booth) and other items. The restaurant was practically empty but it certainly caught the attention of the wait staff.

Because he seemed volatile, they didn't approach him. They kept making eye contact with me to figure out what they should do. And I kept communicating as well as I could - through the nature of my eye contact - that it was okay. That we were okay.

He wasn't hurting me or damaging any of their property. But it's an awkward moment, because I needed to signal to him that I understood the seriousness of the situation and the reasons for his actions - which were meant to be urgent and corrective, while at the same time signaling to the people around us that everything was ok and didn't warrant intervention.

thanks for sharing this eastern sun. that's a tough spot to be in, but a very realistic everyday public life situation that some of us must learn how to handle.

i also do the "hey folks everything's okay here" silent signals to strangers when Daddy's temper flares in public. the fake smiles, the superficially calm demeanor, the soft and lilting sure-sounding voice when speaking to him. just doing my part to protect him as much as i can. that sounds strange to admit...i protect my Master. but yeah, in some ways i do.

 

[ownedsubgal]

DV is tough.

I once saw a guy slapping around a woman who just stood there and took it, with a beaten dog look. Very chilling to witness. I asked if she needed help, and she just kept looking down and shaking her head. Guy started yelling at me. He was total dick. I walked away and called the cops, but don't know if they ever did anything.

probably not. that's both the good (for M/s couples like Daddy and i) and the bad (for those who actually desire help) thing about most law enforcement officers.

in public, i also have no outward reaction to being hit. outward reactions draw attention, and attention draws trouble. i can imagine it would be disturbing for someone to unwittingly witness. hopefully no one ever has, or if so, they simply have not cared which is fine by me.

 

[callinectes2]

The whole hitting/slapping in public thing really bothers me, I don't care if it is consensual. It puts witnesses in a horrible position. Even when assured everything is okay, does the witness really know everything is okay? The would-be good samaratan is left wondering if he/she really made the right call. With all due respect OSG, if I saw your Daddy punch you the gut in public and then you assured me you were okay, I'd still worry. In fact, it would haunt me and I'd always wonder if I did the right thing. (assuming I didn't know you, of course). It is just downright wrong to do that to people.

 

[JMohegan]

I was in a situation yesterday morning where my husband was humiliating me in public. We were in a restaurant, and he even threw a plate (against the cushioned bench of the booth) and other items. The restaurant was practically empty but it certainly caught the attention of the wait staff.

Because he seemed volatile, they didn't approach him. They kept making eye contact with me to figure out what they should do. And I kept communicating as well as I could - through the nature of my eye contact - that it was okay. That we were okay.

He wasn't hurting me or damaging any of their property. But it's an awkward moment, because I needed to signal to him that I understood the seriousness of the situation and the reasons for his actions - which were meant to be urgent and corrective, while at the same time signaling to the people around us that everything was ok and didn't warrant intervention.

A fine example to put fucking in public in perspective.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm ok with slapping, hitting, punching, etc., but I'm like callinectes: I think doing it in public puts anyone who might happen to see in a shitty position, and I'd rather not do that. As for other little shitfits in public on behalf of the dominant party...well, I don't look so highly on it. I have a nasty temper when I'm riled, but I have enough manners and self-control not to show it in public around innocent bystanders. I'd expect anyone I was with to act the same.

 

[00Syd]

I'm ok with slapping, hitting, punching, etc., but I'm like callinectes: I think doing it in public puts anyone who might happen to see in a shitty position, and I'd rather not do that. As for other little shitfits in public on behalf of the dominant party...well, I don't look so highly on it. I have a nasty temper when I'm riled, but I have enough manners and self-control not to show it in public around innocent bystanders. I'd expect anyone I was with to act the same.

Ditto. The most I ever get in public is a sharp swat on the ass.

 

[ownedsubgal]

The whole hitting/slapping in public thing really bothers me, I don't care if it is consensual. It puts witnesses in a horrible position. Even when assured everything is okay, does the witness really know everything is okay? The would-be good samaratan is left wondering if he/she really made the right call. With all due respect OSG, if I saw your Daddy punch you the gut in public and then you assured me you were okay, I'd still worry. In fact, it would haunt me and I'd always wonder if I did the right thing. (assuming I didn't know you, of course). It is just downright wrong to do that to people.

Daddy is not one who has any desire to offend the sensibilities of the general public. moreover, he is very big on others not being involved in the intimate details of his personal relationships. so if the need arises to hit me in public, then he does so discreetly, as i have explained in the past. and again to my knowledge, no one has been a witness.

 

[JMohegan]

i also do the "hey folks everything's okay here" silent signals to strangers when Daddy's temper flares in public. the fake smiles, the superficially calm demeanor, the soft and lilting sure-sounding voice when speaking to him. just doing my part to protect him as much as i can. that sounds strange to admit...i protect my Master. but yeah, in some ways i do.

in public, i also have no outward reaction to being hit. outward reactions draw attention, and attention draws trouble. i can imagine it would be disturbing for someone to unwittingly witness. hopefully no one ever has, or if so, they simply have not cared which is fine by me.

Daddy is not one who has any desire to offend the sensibilities of the general public. moreover, he is very big on others not being involved in the intimate details of his personal relationships. so if the need arises to hit me in public, then he does so discreetly, as i have explained in the past. and again to my knowledge, no one has been a witness.

There's never a "need" to hit someone in public. Just as there's never a "need" for corrective humiliation in front of the wait staff. And letting a temper flare in front of other people is either a conscious choice, or evidence of a lack of self control.

If you're going to consent to participate in those scenes, at least have the decency to own it. Indulging his urges is clearly more important to both of you than the "sensibilities" of the general public.

 

[ownedsubgal]

There's never a "need" to hit someone in public. Just as there's never a "need" for corrective humiliation in front of the wait staff. And letting a temper flare in front of other people is either a conscious choice, or evidence of a lack of self control.

If you're going to consent to participate in those scenes, at least have the decency to own it. Indulging his urges is clearly more important to both of you than the "sensibilities" of the general public.

are you actually stating that i "indulge" my Master?? lol. wow.

anywho, your feelings about M/s as well as punishment dynamics are more than clear. it's certainly not everyone's cup of tea. but, to be clear:

my Master and i do not "scene."

i do not have control or power over the person who owns me.

He is very temperamental, and will admit this to anyone. it is not a problem for him, or for us, because he does not allow his temper to ever get out of hand (by his own standards, which i share).

and finally, sometimes, in order to achieve the end result he desires, there is definitely a need to hit me in public. an example would be if we are out and about to enjoy a lovely day together...ice cream at the park, a great movie, sharing affection like infatuated teenagers, etc...and in the course of this day, i misbehave in some relatively minor way. perhaps it's sharing an opinion or feeling that was not wanted. this brings displeasure and irritation to my Master, killing his mood considerably. being the cause of displeasure and irritation to the Man i love and worship puts me down in the dumps as well, so we are both in a low, unhappy place. swift physical correction allows us to move past all that, and continue on, emotionally unfettered, with our lovely day.

 

[JMohegan]

are you actually stating that i "indulge" my Master?? lol. wow.

anywho, your feelings about M/s as well as punishment dynamics are more than clear. it's certainly not everyone's cup of tea. but, to be clear:

my Master and i do not "scene."

i do not have control or power over the person who owns me.

He is very temperamental, and will admit this to anyone. it is not a problem for him, or for us, because he does not allow his temper to ever get out of hand (by his own standards, which i share).

and finally, sometimes, in order to achieve the end result he desires, there is definitely a need to hit me in public. an example would be if we are out and about to enjoy a lovely day together...ice cream at the park, a great movie, sharing affection like infatuated teenagers, etc...and in the course of this day, i misbehave in some relatively minor way. perhaps it's sharing an opinion or feeling that was not wanted. this brings displeasure and irritation to my Master, killing his mood considerably. being the cause of displeasure and irritation to the Man i love and worship puts me down in the dumps as well, so we are both in a low, unhappy place. swift physical correction allows us to move past all that, and continue on, emotionally unfettered, with our lovely day.

This reads quite a bit differently than your previously stated situation, in which his "temper flares" and you feel the need to send "silent signals to strangers" with "fake smiles" and a "superficially calm demeanor."

This isn't about M/s and punishment. This is about disregard for the impact of your behavior, as a couple, on the general public.

Spin things however you want to, osg. That's obviously your right. As it is my right to call bullshit on what you've written.

 

[ownedsubgal]

This reads quite a bit differently than your previously stated situation, in which his "temper flares" and you feel the need to send "silent signals to strangers" with "fake smiles" and a "superficially calm demeanor."

This isn't about M/s and punishment. This is about disregard for the impact of your behavior, as a couple, on the general public.

Spin things however you want to, osg. That's obviously your right. As it is my right to call bullshit on what you've written.

i am not "spinning" anything. i provided an example of when physical correction/discipline in public is needed, as you denied that this could ever be the case.

prior to that, eastern sun provided an example of her Master's temper flaring in public, and how she deals with that. my response was that i could relate to this, having a temperamental Master as well. usually when his "temper flares," it has nothing to do with me. however when it does, yes i do try my best to maintain a veneer of calm and outward signals that everything's fine, folks. otherwise, as i stated before, negative attention could be drawn to us. my Master can control his own outward responses, but he can't control mine. if i shed tears because he is speaking harshly to me, or cry out because he has hit me (discreetly), then that is only inviting trouble from the general public. that is doing my part to "protect" him. it is also my role in showing "regard" for unknowing bystanders.

where, exactly, is the b.s.?

 

[JMohegan]

i am not "spinning" anything. i provided an example of when physical correction/discipline in public is needed, as you denied that this could ever be the case.

prior to that, eastern sun provided an example of her Master's temper flaring in public, and how she deals with that. my response was that i could relate to this, having a temperamental Master as well. usually when his "temper flares," it has nothing to do with me. however when it does, yes i do try my best to maintain a veneer of calm and outward signals that everything's fine, folks. otherwise, as i stated before, negative attention could be drawn to us. my Master can control his own outward responses, but he can't control mine. if i shed tears because he is speaking harshly to me, or cry out because he has hit me (discreetly), then that is only inviting trouble from the general public. that is doing my part to "protect" him. it is also my role in showing "regard" for unknowing bystanders.

where, exactly, is the b.s.?

You have not convinced me that there is ever a "need" for physical correction/discipline in public. Your spin on the various scenarios in an attempt to do so is what I consider b.s.

 

[Netzach]

A lot of stuff is contextual. I know that if I did oversee an incident like ES described in a NYC diner, I might be like "wow that dude is a dick or mental or something" but it would so not be the strangest thing I've seen in a diner in NYC and probably wouldn't garner more reaction and would be forgotten by dinner. I don't think waiters are paid highly enough to have to be the captive audience, but that's just me.

The public isn't always that fragile. That said, I like to do my sociological experiments in bars because children aren't in them. There's worse going on, usually, than my impromptu foot massage or whatever. I do sometimes balance general comfort with my own gratification and they lose - the idea is just too juicy and too good and so not overtly sexual that it's under the radar enough. I had H do something very degrading on the capital lawn - but as cover there are wingnuts with weird outfits there making a point every DAY. He blended in as one of them, in a pink and crossdressed insane kind of way.

My missions are usually very blatant, but so much so that they tread on the absurd, performance art, political protest maybe generally eccentric.

If I do see people beating on each other I call the cops. That can be two physically matched gay guys, a woman beating on a man, a man beating on a woman, people beating their children, take your pick.

 

[eastern sun]

There's never a "need" to hit someone in public. Just as there's never a "need" for corrective humiliation in front of the wait staff. And letting a temper flare in front of other people is either a conscious choice, or evidence of a lack of self control.

If you're going to consent to participate in those scenes, at least have the decency to own it. Indulging his urges is clearly more important to both of you than the "sensibilities" of the general public.

At times, I have thought that I was enabling "bad behavior" by protecting him from the consequences of it. I have touched on those thoughts in the "marks of a slave" thread periodically - in saying, for instance, that "feeding the beast makes it stronger and hungrier."

But I also like living with the beast. His energy is intoxicating. And he gives me courage to face situations that terrify me.

We weren't scene-ing in the BDSM use of the word, but it was consciously designed behavior on his part. It's also possible that the anger, fear and anxiety that prompted it gave him more fuel than he expected. He is prone to temper flares.

Without going into too many details, the reasons for his anger were not minor. And he wanted to communicate to me the potential outcome of the situation I could be inadvertently creating.

By doing it in public, he certainly got my attention too. I am much more likely to avoid the repetition of that moment, take a deeper look at what he was trying to communicate to me, and modify my behavior, than I would if it had all transpired at home. He was trying to shake me up in order to make me jump tracks, and immediately discontinue a certain train of thought and action.

So - our relationship is not endangered by the incident . . . but what about the responsibility we have towards our community?

Well, I agree that if we could avoid such scenes it would be great. For everyone involved. I also wish our politicians and business leaders would stop inflicting their behavior on us too. I wish I didn't have to put up with a lot of social behavior that seems grounded in ignorance and self-centeredness.

I've heard people on this board complain about bratty kids in restaurants. The restaurant we were in is usually full of them. I guess we all believe that being an adult means that we should have control over ourselves and our behavior.

Maybe he should make different choices in how he expresses himself. Usually he is quite calm and reasonable. Usually he doesn't lose his temper in public. Usually our relationship takes place under cover of socially acceptable (if a little crude) behavior and amiable friendship.

But no one I've ever met has made the best choice every single time.

I do think, given the parameters of our relationship, that I responded correctly in diffusing the situation. Within a few minutes, we were calmly eating our breakfast; and the wait staff probably did decide that he was a total jerk. They won't have been the first to make that decision.

I don't have to decide that he's a jerk, though.

We used to have sex in public venues too.

(and Netzach's right. The NYC public can handle a fair amount of craziness, and/or behavior outside the social norms. It's one of the reasons off-beat people choose to live here.)

 

[JMohegan]

But no one I've ever met has made the best choice every single time.

Neither have I.

And regarding the specific example, prompting random members of the public to become seriously concerned for someone's safety, I've done that too - as I made clear earlier on the thread.

In my opinion, "volatile" behavior, making the wait staff worry about whether they need to intervene to protect your safety, is in an entirely different category than bratty kid behavior or public fucking. It's just a shittier thing to do to people - even if they're from New York and will get over it faster than Iowa folk.

I was in a situation yesterday morning where my husband was humiliating me in public. We were in a restaurant, and he even threw a plate (against the cushioned bench of the booth) and other items. The restaurant was practically empty but it certainly caught the attention of the wait staff.

Because he seemed volatile, they didn't approach him. They kept making eye contact with me to figure out what they should do. And I kept communicating as well as I could - through the nature of my eye contact - that it was okay. That we were okay.

He wasn't hurting me or damaging any of their property. But it's an awkward moment, because I needed to signal to him that I understood the seriousness of the situation and the reasons for his actions - which were meant to be urgent and corrective, while at the same time signaling to the people around us that everything was ok and didn't warrant intervention.

 

[eastern sun]

In my opinion, "volatile" behavior, making the wait staff worry about whether they need to intervene to protect your safety, is in an entirely different category than bratty kid behavior or public fucking. It's just a shittier thing to do to people - even if they're from New York and will get over it faster than Iowa folk.

I was going to say . . . . We share the same continuum of shitty-ness in behavior.

Until I realized you said "different category." Maybe that's the difference in our perspectives.

I see bad behavior on a continuum, ranging from slightly obnoxious to needing incarceration, depending on the strength of its impact on other people.

 

[JMohegan]

I was going to say . . . . We share the same continuum of shitty-ness in behavior.

Until I realized you said "different category." Maybe that's the difference in our perspectives.

I see bad behavior on a continuum, ranging from slightly obnoxious to needing incarceration, depending on the strength of its impact on other people.

Thinking about that continuum makes sense to me.

I described your example as a different category because I see a distinction between behavior that's annoying or unpleasant, behavior that violates some peoples' sense of decency, and so on. Different flavors of shittiness, if you will.