No, the Democrats did not lose by going too far left.

[Politruk]

Yes there is. Your impression of their intentions doesn't line up with the actual results or their behavior.

Their behavior is getting jobs and working. That's pretty much all. They're statistically less likely than native-born citizens to be criminals.

 

[Politruk]

Looking into Kamala's eyes, one could see there was nobody home.

Harris is as mentally superior to Trump as Stephen Hawking to a goat.

 

[UltraChad]

Their behavior is getting jobs and working. That's pretty much at all.

Whatever cope you have to tell yourself to keep the faith that what your eyes, bank account and bills are all showing you is just a lie.

Most of us just don't have it in us to ignore reality to that level though.

 

[UltraChad]

They lost by not going far left enough to offer any real, hopeful alternative to plutocratic rule and the low-wage economy it produces.

That's all the left offers. That's all they've ever offered or had.

Collective ownership of the means of production and forced social/economic equity ..... doesn't work. Never has and likely never will because the Karen class just can't do what the productive class can, produce marketable value. They can only insert themselves as bureaucrats and take a piece by force. They're literally parasites..... it's a big part of what makes them Karens. Let's hope Trump is the Ivermectin.....

 

[Politruk]

That's all the left offers.

The Democrats are not the left.

 

[contrifan32]

The Democrats have nothing left.

Here, I fixed that for you.

 

[UltraChad]

The Democrats are not the left.

Then why do they support, engage in activism for and institute leftist ideology and values into literally everything they do???

 

[Politruk]

Whatever cope you have to tell yourself to keep the faith that what your eyes, bank account and bills are all showing you is just a lie.

Immigrants are NOT costing you money.

"Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes"[edit]​

• Immigrants pay property taxes either via home ownership or rental, as well as sales tax when purchasing goods in the U.S. Depending on their employers, the immigrants also pay federal, state, and local income taxes. Analysts told VICE News the population will contribute at least $12 billion to the federal government in 2015, and at least $10.6 billion to state and local governments via income and payroll taxes.[2]
• Studies in New York state and Los Angeles County from the 1990s found that the majority of taxes paid by undocumented immigrants went to the federal government rather than state or local.[3]
• Undocumented workers pay their part despite the fact that they are explicitly banned from taxpayer-funded programs such as Social Security, Medicare, welfare, and food stamps. Undocumented immigrants contributed about $12 billion to the Social Security Trust Fund in 2010, according to the Social Security Administration.[4] Since illegal immigrants cannot legally be employed, they are often employed "off the books" in casual or seasonal work and are paid in cash, without taxes deducted and often below minimum wage. Employers often threaten to report immigrant workers to Immigration and Customs Enforcement if the worker complains about wages or working conditions.[5]
• Since illegal immigrants often have fake or stolen documents (especially Social Security numbers), they often cannot benefit from Social Security taxes withheld from wages. The amount in question is evidenced by the Social Security Administration’s “suspense file” (taxes that cannot be matched to workers’ names and Social Security numbers), which grew $20 billion between 1990 and 1998.[6][7] The amount of money contributed by undocumented immigrants to Social Security has been estimated between $7 and $15 billion annually.[6][8]

"Immigrants come here to get 'welfare'"[edit]​

• Latin American immigrant labor-force participation is close to or higher than the American average.[3]
• Immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S., unless the “study” was undertaken by an anti-immigrant group. One study estimates that immigrants earn nearly $240 billion a year. Studies find that immigrant tax payments total $20 to $85 billion more than the amount of government services they use.[9]
• Since the welfare reform of 1996, when limits were implemented cutting off benefits to two years consecutively or five years cumulatively, this is a bogus accusation.[10]
• To immigrate into the US, you must have a sponsor (generally the family member, such as the spouse, bringing you into the country) who will testify, and provide proof, that he or she has enough money to support you, if you are unable to support yourself, or if you lose your job.[11] This means that until you naturalize as a U.S. citizen or have been a taxpayer for 10 years, your sponsor's income will be taken into consideration in deciding whether you are poor enough to qualify for means-tested benefits, and that if you do take those benefits, the government can sue your sponsor to recover those costs. You can also sue your sponsor if they fail to support you at the poverty level.
• Libertarian economist Milton Friedman once said that you can't simultaneously support the welfare state and free immigration. The reason, according to him, was the fact that the access to generous social welfare provisions will likely attract more destitute migrants, which then places a significant fiscal burden on the host country.[12][note 1] Immigrants, however, use less, and not more social benefits than native Americans. In 2016, the American governme

"Immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy"[edit]​

• A nation's immigration policy is explicitly designed to benefit the nation, and one way it does that is to decline anyone that is reasonably likely to be a drain on the economy from immigrating. By contrast, we can't kick a US citizen out of the US because they are expected to be a drain on the economy. The net result is that on average a legal immigrant should be expected to be less of a drain on the economy than the average US citizen by virtue of the immigration process ensuring only the most talented or those likely to be able to care for themselves are let in.
• Immigrants actually wield considerable economic power. In 2014, there were 8.7 million foreign-born homeowners, and immigrants contributed $32.9 billion into the Medicare trust versus the -$68.7 billion deficit generated by natural-born Americans.[22]
• In 1995, naturalized citizens living in New York had a higher per capita income (est. $24,000) and average taxes paid (est. $8,500) than native-born U.S. citizens in the state (est. $18,000 and $6,500 respectively).[3]
• Immigrants fill jobs in key sectors and create jobs by establishing their own businesses, with an estimated annual benefit of $10 billion to the U.S. economy. According to Alan Greenspan, 70% of immigrants arrive when they are of prime working age.[23]
• Due to welfare reform, illegal immigrants are severely restricted from accessing public benefits, and illegal immigrants are even further precluded from anything other than emergency services. Anti-immigrant groups skew these figures by including programs used by U.S. citizen children of immigrants in their definition of immigrant welfare use, among other tactics.
• Immigrants actually create jobs. See above on the companies started by Chinese and Indian immigrants. Think of it: How many Taco places (besides things you should refuse to call "Taco"https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Wikipedia%27s_W.svg/12px-Wikipedia%27s_W.svg.png) would there be without Mexican immigration? How many jobs do they create? And that's just one of the more glaringly obvious examples. If immigrants as a group have one thing Americans tend to lack, it's entrepreneurial spirit.

 

[Rightguide]

Those are all lies. Immigrants are no threat to national security. They don't want to harm this country, they want to live here.

Bullshit these are all illegal aliens. All are here illegally. We have no idea who they really are. Among them are terrorists, criminal gangs, killers, and rapists, they are committing crimes every day. We have an immigration process and it isn't wading across the Rio Grande. I say march them to Texas and force them back across the river. Fuck flying them anywhere.

 

[UltraChad]

Immigrants are NOT costing you money.

Link all the "Open borders and totally unchecked immigration have no downsides or problems of any kind!!! " globocommie gaslighting you like...... RENT AND GROCERIES ARE WAY UP!!!! Cold hard economic reality refutes your narrative that basic economic principles don't apply to the USA.

 

[Politruk]

Then why do they support, push and institute leftist ideology and values into everything they do???

They don't. They push DEI and LGBT rights and stuff, but not anything really left in an economic sense, that would threaten the power of the plutocracy, or raise real incomes for the majority. Democrats do not even push anything so innocuous and vanilla as a progressive tax system or a vigorous welfare state, any more.

 

[Politruk]

Bullshit these are all illegal aliens. All are here illegally. We have no idea who they really are. Among them are terrorists, criminal gangs, killers, and rapists, they are committing crimes every day.

Those are all lies. Immigrants, including illegals, are statistically less likely than citizens to commit crimes.

 

[Politruk]

We have an immigration process and it isn't wading across the Rio Grande. I say march them to Texas and force them back across the river. Fuck flying them anywhere.

It's not a border-control problem -- most of them entered legally and overstayed their visas. A wall wouldn't help.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Collective ownership of the means of production and forced social/economic equity ..... doesn't work.

Collective ownership under democratic control can end exploitation and distribute resources equitably.

 

[Politruk]

Link all the "OPEN BORDERS ARE OUR STRENGTH!!" globocommie propaganda you like...... RENT AND GROCERIES ARE WAY UP!!!!

Keep ignoring your lying eyes buddy, the faith in the narrative is all you've got!!!

RationalWiki is a lot more credible and fact-based than wherever you're reading all that from.

 

[Politruk]

Collective ownership under democratic control can end exploitation and distribute resources equitably.

Then why has it never been tried?

 

[UltraChad]

They don't. They push DEI and LGBT rights and stuff, but not anything really left in an economic sense,

DEI is literally leftist by definition.

Collective ownership of the means of production and exchange of goods and services isn't leftist economics??

Since when?

 

[UltraChad]

RationalWiki is a lot more credible and fact-based than wherever you're reading all that from.

No, the leftist confirmation bias board is not more credible and fact based than the US Department of Commerce or the ACTUAL housing, energy or food prices currently listed.

 

[UltraChad]

Collective ownership under democratic control can end exploitation and distribute resources equitably.

In theory....in practice it's always ended up with some lunatic taking power and incurring some of the most horrifying exploitation and inequity in modern history.

Then why has it never been tried?

It has....dozens of times and it always winds up a psychotic dystopian death filled hell. People like you blow it off as not REAL leftism.

When will you guys learn??? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.......Some animals are more equal than others!!! EVERY TIME!!!! EVERY SINGLE TIME. Aren't you borg supposed to adapt and progress?? Well....we're waiting.

 

[guest95]

They lost by not going far left enough to offer any real, hopeful alternative to plutocratic rule and the low-wage economy it produces.

im worried about how the politics are going to effect this site and possibly others

 

[Holy_Seduction]

“…why do they support, engage in activism for and institute leftist ideology and values into literally everything they do?”

The Democratic Party is no party of the left. It is a reactionary force to suppress class struggle and serves the interests of the financial elite. It undermines working class interests, backs war and counterrevolution, co-opts movements, divides with identity politics and misdirects attention away from class economic issues, and refuses to address ongoing, systemic crises.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

im worried about how the politics are going to effect this site and possibly others

Time will tell. For now, welcome and congrats on your first post ..

 

[Politruk]

DEI is literally leftist by definition.

No, it isn't. No more than feminism or LGBT rights are leftist.

Here's a good rule of thumb: If it costs the plutocrats nothing, it ain't leftist.

Collective ownership of the means of production and exchange of goods and services isn't leftist economics??

Since when?

Of course it is -- but it is not Democratic policy. Never was, not even in the FDR or LBJ years.

 

[Politruk]

No, the leftist confirmation bias board

RationalWiki is not like that at all. It has no Wikipedian neutrality policy, but its bias is entirely towards reason, science and rationality. RationalWiki has a lot of nasty things to say about Communism.

 

[Politruk]

It has....dozens of times and it always winds up a psychotic dystopian death filled hell.

"Collective ownership under democratic control" has never been tried.