No, really...

[tortoise]

Yanno... I hear you all saying shit like... well we didn't know it was true, or but Lance makes jokes, or we didn't know Lance's intentions, or he joked about something similar once, or he's been mean in the past... etc...

All that just proves my point. Why would you take something serious that you know nothing about and then make light of it just so you can socket it to Lance? Does he present you with so few opportunites to zing him that you'll take every precieved chance you can? Even at the expense of someone else's passing?

I gotta say... the comment was bad enough... but this fucking load of shit ya'll are backing it up with about how it's not such a bad thing is even fucking worse. You'd all be better off just saying "sorry" and shutting your worthless pie holes. Just my humble opinion.

PBW "It's strange out a few words can make you lose total and utter respect for someone."

Just a few facts delivered in an attempt to restore calm, albeit through gritted teeth:

1. Ginny knew virtually nothing of Artful, apart from his name. She knew nothing about his health, or his passing. You can choose to believe this or not, but it's the truth.

2. Her "kick the bucket" comment was not meant as an attack on Lance, nor was it in any way intended to "zing" him. She actually rather likes Lance, and was responding to what she assumed was a joke in his sigline. I too made that assumption. I assumed that Lance was making a tongue in cheek reference to some altercation that he had with Artful, as he is wont to do.

3. When Ginny realized the truth about Artful's passing, she immediately offered her condolences to the people that knew him.

I don't know you, PBW, and I've had very little interaction with you on the boards. But I do know Ginny, know her better than anyone else on this planet, and I am utterly positive that she meant no disrespect towards Artful with her question. I realize that you are upset at the passing of someone that I assume was your friend, as anyone would be, but the fact is that Ginny meant no harm by the question.

 

[lavender]

1. This is an anon BB, so your real gender is unknown and irrelevant to me;

I challenge this assertion. Your first posts to me were when I had an avatar of a lego on this board. You thought I was male. After this you thought I was a lesbian. When you found out I was a heterosexual female who was assertive your entire attitude and posts on the board changed towards me.

Secondly, gender is of importance to you. There were men arguing points with you at the same time women were, but you have chosen the women - Sunstruck, KM, cymbidia, Risia and me to question and to insult. It took a helluva long time before you started including a man in that brigade. You finally did, months after the fact when Ishmael started attacking you so forcefully.

The way you address men and women on this board is decidedly different. If you don't think so, go back and check your posts. Go back and check the way you dealt with Rambrat after his incident, versus the way you dealt with Freya2 or pretty lil stranger (although pretty lil stranger was some type of paternalism "I know better than you do" type methodology). Anyone who can read your posts and honestly believe you do not treat genders differently on the board is ludicrous.

You use women's sexuality against them in arguments, you have done this with people other than just Muffie. If that is a point that you will use in argumentation, a person's gender is of importance. I rarely see you talking about how women must dominate a weaker man or how they must get dick slapped all the time by their woman. You can say it until you are blue in the face, gender plays a huge role in the way you post on this board. It may not be conscious, but it is a factor.

2. Notwithstanding 1 (above), I believe in and practice gender equality;

Your notions of gender equality are very consistent with traditionalists, within the mold of classical liberal thinking. This type of thinker only sees the gross actions against women based on their gender to be truly inequal. The invidious discrimination of women is harder to identify, to pinpoint, and thus harder to prove.

I don't know how you deal with women in the real world Lance. I can't even assume to know this. But, for the purposes of the board, you do not treat men and women equally. You may believe in gender equality, but what you say on this board does not reflect this opinion - unless you are talking in the abstract about policies rather than your own actions.

I can claim up and down that I believe one way, but if my actions indicate something else, how strongly do I truly believe in the ideal I purport to support?

3. With 2 (above) in mind, a "woman"'s verbal attacks here are no different than a "man"'s as far as I'm concerned. A flame is a flame, a verbal attack is a verbal attack. If I am attacked, I reserve the right to push back as hard as I like, thanks. If you want to keep sulking about all the times I have beaten you fair and square in response to your silly antics, fill your boots.

Agreed. A woman's verbal attacks are no different than a man's. Lance, your philosophy is a bit skewed though. You're an attorney, you should know something about proportionate response. You response goes far beyond that at times. But, you have the right to say whatever you want. I agree. That doesn't have to mean I think it's in good taste, just like you don't have to agree with what I say. You have not beaten KM fair and square in response. You twist her words, you manipulate her thoughts, you bend the truth, you flat out lie, and you attack her sexuality and attack her gender (disproving points 1&2) in order to seem as though you win. If anyone reads and knows what's going on - they realize that you aren't winning the logistics of the argument. In debate there is an idea called the line-by-line of argumentation. You definitely never win the line-by-line of an argument. You use smarmy manipulative tactics to avoid what is said and the meat of the discussion to claim victory. It's desperate, ridiculous, and makes you look even worse than you already are.

4. The records show that each and every big flame fight you have ever had with me has been started by....You. Including this one.

I haven't gone around checking KMs flames to you or yours to her, but I do know that even when we aren't around you can't help but throw our name around in every argument. You start flames against Laurel, against Moderators, against this site. Actually, wait a minute. Any thread you start about moderators is essentially a thread against Killer Muffin fairly directly. Your threads about moderators are designed to incite, they are created to end in flames. Therefore argument #4 can't be backed up with factual support and analysis.

5. Once, during one of your many unprovoked and very angry flames against me on the BDSM Forum about 6 months ago, I deconstructed one of your rants and turned it into a mock BDSM scene in which I gagged you and had my way with you. The words used were not out of scale with yours that preceded the post nor the general tenor of the BDSM Forum.

Once there was a gross violation. Once you used more than a paragraph to attack KM's sexuality and her gender. The words may have not been used out of scale, but the words were different. You can't see this because you are of the dominating class - heterosexual white males. You can't see this because you haven't personally experienced what forced sex, forced sexuality is like. You can say this because you don't have to worry very often that someone is going to impose their sexual will on you. Using one's sexuality, arguing because of their gender, is ridiculous and in immensely poor taste. It is one thing to call someone arrogant, a bigot, a wuss, whatever. It's quite another to try to manipulate them and try to put them verbally into a sexual position they would NEVER want to be in.

Yes, this is the only time you did this to such an extreme - but you talk about sex and degrade a woman's sexual choices on a fairly consistent basis. You tell the women what kind of sex they need, you tell the strong women that they need to be spanked or to be in other positions of submission. You use this sex as a tool to objectify the women who you are arguing with. It's using something you know about them - you know KM isn't a sub - to try and demoralize them. It's fucked up.

6. In response you wrote a story about Dominating me, advertised it around the BDSM Forum and the GB....(and in fact you promoted the story, "Lanciepants" just last week here as I recall.)

The most important word is - response. She didn't respond in the harshest way possible. She responded in kind. It was similar to what you original did. Whatever.

 

[Guest]

 

[estevie]

Well, that is lovely.


Oh and I like Lance. He cracks me up most times. He does take shit a tad to far sometimes but so do a lot of others. *shrugs* I don't see the women bashing, all I see is him giving back what he got. Alls fair in love and war they say.

 

[Lancecastor]

I'm not so sure what Artful's reaction would be to seeing you folks pissing on each other's feet about who's shown the least respect over his death...but he did have a sense of humour, so perhaps he'd just laugh it off or change the subject.

Yes, the sky is quite black here tonite and the moon is sparkly, too, Roob.




Edited to add: Lav, has Muffy hired you to speak on her behalf? If not, bugger off.

 

[Guest]

 

[Lancecastor]

Well if Lance got on with this Artful dude, I presume he was decent and not the regular Lit dribbling fool we see in abundance here

Artful outclassed most everyone here.

 

[Gusty Wind]

``ooo.....woow !

 

[Ebonyfire]

Not only wrong, but dead wrong

I don't care for Ginny. Ginny doesn't care for me. Ginny will badmouth me, she did earlier today.

But, what she said was totally not bad. Lance would joke about something like that. He was one of the first on the Tantanah bandwagon. He was rude and spiteful to Rambrat about the whole thing. Lance has not liked dream (I don't either) and has made numerous comments about her. Considering a fake death and Lance's use of jokes from time to time, I feel Ginny's comments were not spiteful or rude.

I don't think she meant anything negative by them.

I don't know what Lance's intentions were in his sigline. I don't think they were mean, to be honest. But who knows.

Bullshit. Lance has never joked about someone dying. And he would not post anything like that about Artful.

You were wrong, so just bite the bullet and admit it.

Sheesh!

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

PB Walker,

I don't hate Lance, I find him to be a joke. He has turned into a joke on this board like many other posters before him. He has done it to himself through his own ridiculous antics.

The main reason that I have any dislike for Lance is summed up easily by one word which represents the overwhelming aspect he brings to this board:

manipulation

Lance is little more than a manipulator.

Who isn't on the GB? I thought it was a prerequisite for membership to the GB inner sanctum.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Artful outclassed most everyone here.

Amen to that!

 

[Gusty Wind]

Artful outclassed most everyone here.

hmm... sexy...for you....cheers......relax....it's all in your fingertips

~ i^
kiss:

hmmm... it's better this way.

<smile>... sexy...

I will bring you some roses later...mmuah``~wink ~````

hmmm. why can't I push my Border like yours...

I did it once.. veryLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOng one tOO

Q 4u from me (typist)

hmmm... sexy y y```

when you spoke for the man in the av...

DOes he really think that way ?

I will make a new thread for you too

soon !``

 

[P. B. Walker]

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive.
There is no vaccine against stupidity.

My pics have been posted umpteen dozen times, I've worn my face as an AV before as well, I got sick of the little boys drooling over it, what can ya do eh?

I'd like to leave you with one final thought....but I'm not sure you have any where to put it.

Yeah, I am happy... happy I'm not a fuckstick like you.

Lemme ask ya... how does it feel to be the one defending someone that makes jokes about a dead person? In my mind, you are just as suck a fuck as Ginny.

You should be a politician.

PBW "It's funny how people think they are hotter than they really are."

 

[Guest]

I hope you children are sending nice notes via PM behind the scenes and all this is just silly play acting.........

 

[P. B. Walker]

I challenge this assertion. Your first posts to me were when I had an avatar of a lego on this board. You thought I was male. After this you thought I was a lesbian. When you found out I was a heterosexual female who was assertive your entire attitude and posts on the board changed towards me.

Secondly, gender is of importance to you. There were men arguing points with you at the same time women were, but you have chosen the women - Sunstruck, KM, cymbidia, Risia and me to question and to insult. It took a helluva long time before you started including a man in that brigade. You finally did, months after the fact when Ishmael started attacking you so forcefully.

The way you address men and women on this board is decidedly different. If you don't think so, go back and check your posts. Go back and check the way you dealt with Rambrat after his incident, versus the way you dealt with Freya2 or pretty lil stranger (although pretty lil stranger was some type of paternalism "I know better than you do" type methodology). Anyone who can read your posts and honestly believe you do not treat genders differently on the board is ludicrous.

You use women's sexuality against them in arguments, you have done this with people other than just Muffie. If that is a point that you will use in argumentation, a person's gender is of importance. I rarely see you talking about how women must dominate a weaker man or how they must get dick slapped all the time by their woman. You can say it until you are blue in the face, gender plays a huge role in the way you post on this board. It may not be conscious, but it is a factor.



Your notions of gender equality are very consistent with traditionalists, within the mold of classical liberal thinking. This type of thinker only sees the gross actions against women based on their gender to be truly inequal. The invidious discrimination of women is harder to identify, to pinpoint, and thus harder to prove.

I don't know how you deal with women in the real world Lance. I can't even assume to know this. But, for the purposes of the board, you do not treat men and women equally. You may believe in gender equality, but what you say on this board does not reflect this opinion - unless you are talking in the abstract about policies rather than your own actions.

I can claim up and down that I believe one way, but if my actions indicate something else, how strongly do I truly believe in the ideal I purport to support?

I actually agree with these few points of lavenders. Lance does treat genders differently. JMHO.

PBW

 

[glamorilla]

i have it on good authority lance was hatched from an egg and steals milk money from small children.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I hope you children are sending nice notes via PM behind the scenes and all this is just silly play acting.........

I only PM'd with friends until today... but don't worry... my PMs with these fucksticks are just the same as my posts here are... so you aren't missing out on anything.

PBW "I'm thinking of staring a "Sick & Twisted Joke" thread... just in honor of Ginny and the IndigoRose chick."

 

[Gusty Wind]

mmmm... <smile>````hey sexy y yy y````

One drinks for you too...aww...

hate to see you like this...sexy y yy```

don't be fround...

your last av....woohOO I like !

~ i^




I will bring to you too...

mm...sexy `` `PBW` ``````*

ooo...aww... you are gonna hate me for sure..

another coo~cOo....whO```ooo...```*

 

[tortoise]

PBW "I'm thinking of staring a "Sick & Twisted Joke" thread... just in honor of Ginny and the IndigoRose chick."

You are judging Ginny based on exactly ONE question, one that was not intended to harm ANYONE. I've explained, in painstaking detail, the circustances and assumptions that led to that question, yet you choose to ignore all of my explanations, saying "you're just defending her like all of the others."

It really boils down to one simple fact:

She did not know that Artful had died. If she had any inkling that this was the case, that Lance's sigline was in earnest, she would have never posted that flippant question.

I've tried, really tried, to be calm and reasonable, taking the time to explain the situation as clearly as I can. Nevertheless, you choose to continue with your snide attacks on her.

I leave you to your judgements and pronouncements from on high.

Your loss.

tort "fuckstick" oise

 

[glamorilla]

you rock turtle.

 

[Rubyfruit]

Ginny is the luckiest woman alive.

You're the best, tortoise.

 

[Guest]

 

[P. B. Walker]

Quotes originally posted by tortoise

You are judging Ginny based on exactly ONE question, one that was not intended to harm ANYONE.

Yeah, funny how that goes isn't it. One slip of the tongue and you are an instant asshole.

I've explained, in painstaking detail, the circustances and assumptions that led to that question, yet you choose to ignore all of my explanations, saying "you're just defending her like all of the others."

I'm sorry but that's just wrong. I have had the situation explained me a bunch of times by several different people. I UNDERSTAND THE FUCKING SITUATION. I don't *care* what the siuation is. Can YOU understand THAT?! My point is (and has been since I fucking started talking about this) is that it was a stupid, sick, twisted thing to say and there is no way to just explain it away as "right". So just admit it and move the fuck on. And I never said "you are defending her like all the others". I said you are using the same nonsensical arguments as the others. Big difference.

It really boils down to one simple fact:

She did not know that Artful had died. If she had any inkling that this was the case, that Lance's sigline was in earnest, she would have never posted that flippant question.

I've tried, really tried, to be calm and reasonable, taking the time to explain the situation as clearly as I can.

Thank you once again for explaining the fucking situation. Is anyone still unclear about the situation? Christ. Do you think if I hear the details about the situation one more time that i will change my opinion of her?

Nevertheless, you choose to continue with your snide attacks on her.

I leave you to your judgements and pronouncements from on high.

Your loss.

tort "fuckstick" oise

Guess, what? They will continue whenever I see fit.

Thank you for allowing me to have my opinion. Do you mind if I go jerk off later too?

I'd say it's my gain. But again, that's my opinion.

PBW "The fucksticks are getting uppity"

 

[Guest]

 

[P. B. Walker]

You are about as dumb as they come. I bet you're a redneck. There is no point in arguing with you, you're too thick to grasp anything but what your own pea brain can manage to fizzle out.

To top it all off, you have the face of a Saint--a Saint Bernard.

You can keep on babbling your ignorant garble here but none of it is gonna do anything but make you look more the fool. If you can't bring yourself to believe you might have been wrong here, why don't you just agree to disagree and turn the other cheek? No wait, don't do that the other cheek is just as ugly.

Awww, what's the matter Indigetto? Can't win the argument with logic and common sense so you resort to name calling. That's cool. Being that I'm a good 'ole boy, I resent the redneck comment.

You are right, there is no point in arguing with me, because you are losing and always will on this point. So get over it. You remind me of those women that fuck, drink, and do drugs in front of their little kids and babies, rationalizing that it's ok because the kids really don't know what is going on.

I think you are just sore because you can't win a winless argument, but you are too much of a bitch to admit that you are wrong. As for me being wrong... uhhh... what kinda smack are you pushing into your veins sweetie pie? If I'm wrong, then you are actually coming out and say "yes, it's ok to just piss on the dead". You are a fucking retard. Please go crawl back into the big pile of stinking ugly shit from whence you arose, fatass.

PBW