Naivete

[lavender]

 

[Ishmael]

when you are old, all you have left to hold over someone younger is condescension, mockery and insults.

after all, they have youth, and all you have is experience.

Yep.

Two bulls standing on a hill overlooking a meadow of newly nubile heifers. One bull is old, the other young.

The younger says, "Let's run down there and fuck one of those heifers!"

The older says, "Nope, lets walk down and fuck them all."

Ishmael

 

[Lancecastor]

All our mocking was in the halls but yes we mooted back then as well.

Debating, mocking, mooting...it's all moot for the purposes of this thread.

Hey....Wanna talk about mink as ferae naturae for a while?

Lance,

If you know anything about national debate you realize law schools don't participate in that anymore, not valid national debate. Law schools do mock trial and moot court, very different than standard debating - very different.

I do appreciate the condescension in this thread.

 

[Ishmael]

Rather than looking at the knowledge one has, because of who I am (regarding my age) my opinion is seen as less than.

Lavy, knowledge is good. Practical application thereof is a whole different thing.

Ishmael

 

[lavender]

 

[Siren]

 

[Texan]

You know, I was talking to someone about this topic. And they said something that sticks.

"Despite your abilities, you have no credibility because of who you are."

Rather than looking at the knowledge one has, because of who I am (regarding my age) my opinion is seen as less than.

I find that quite offensive, to be honest.


Texan,

My post about happy chickens was true, but it's kind of a little joke. I know it sounds silly to say happy chickens. But, I am conscious of the products I buy.

Lavender, do you want a surgeon that has a lot of knowledge about how to do the operation you need, or do you want a surgeon that has done the operation before?

With your knowledge (combined with your obvious intelligence), the experience you are going to continue gaining over the years will make you a progressively amazing woman. Without that knowledge, you would just become an "experienced" woman.

The condescending arrogance of an older person is ugly. The arrogance of youth just looks silly.

 

[Weird Harold]

Shouldn't it say something to you about me, that there are about 10 posters all about 40+ who are sitting in here going at a female who is 26.

How naive do you truly think I am compared to my peers? If you thought I was as naive, as you seem to be insinuating, you wouldn't be wasting your time.

Think about what I'm saying about how you treat people with condescension for age, and look at what you've said in this thread.

My point has been proven.

No, your point has NOT been proven. I've only seen ONE post in this thread that specifically said any of your viewpoints were naive, and NONE that said YOU are naive.

I've seen many posts that say some young people are naive, and others that say the young tend to be more naive.

So far, I've seen a general discussion about why the young are often perceived as being naive and why naivete seems to be less prevalent in the old.

I suppose the interest in this thread could be construed as an implication that your views about naivete are naive.

It's more probable that the old farts are just defending themselves from an unwarranted generalixzation about their views of the opinions of younger posters.

 

[lavender]

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

I guess I'm just misinterpreting what people are insinuating.

You mean you are inferring what people are not implying?

 

[Texan]

there has been quite alot of condescension going on in this thread. I can see it.

The lil bit about "seal this thread up and look at it in 20 years so you can see how right we all were' is very condescending.

I find it insulting.

Siren, my memory hasn't left me yet, so I frequently remember things from 20 years ago that embarrass the hell out of me today.

20 years ago, I was only one year older than Lavender is today. My oldest son is only 4 years younger than Lavender is. I deal with this subject EVERY day at some level. I don't mean to insult anyone when I suggest that this converstation will have a COMPLETELY different appearance when viewed from a vantage point 20 years in the future.

Also, when I was Lavender's age, I always felt I was more mature, experienced and intelligent that other people my own age. I also begrudged the lack of respect my "intelligence" earned me from older people. It's simply part of the angst of youth.

 

[Wrong Element]

I agree with Texan et al. that being called naive may have more to do with being young (and to a certain extent, being liberal) than being a woman. I know that my very conservative father used to tell me that I'd change my mind on any number of things once I got a little older and learned How The World Really Works--in other words, I'd lose my youthful naivete. Like most people, I have changed my mind on a lot of things over the years, though probably not enough to suit my father. I'm sure I am less naive today with the benefit of age, though I don't believe I was any more naive 20 years ago than the average young adult, including those who were conservative.

I don't know that it's naivete as much as it is simple lack of experience (or perhaps "lack of experience" is simply a more polite way of saying "naivete"). Leaving politics aside, most people do tend to make better decisions with the benefit of experience.

 

[Lancecastor]

Well, I think you've proven that yes, several men in a room talking to you will come to the independant conclusions that your views and positions tend towards the naive.

When I was 26 I felt the same as you do, I think.

It's not a competition Lav.

I don't think you should be bugged or even concerned by what anyone thinks of You except You.

Cheers;

Lance

 

[lavender]

 

[Dougy]

I am hesitant to even enter into this, as I know that anything I say will come off as naivete. Perhaps this is why there seems to be a less vocal liberal presence as we age...that those of us that truly believe in 'liberal' ideals become so frustrated at the brick wall that arguing usually become. Being still relatively young, I expect I will only get worse...

...or maybe I'll just realize that market forces have the best chance of changing society for the better, who knows.

 

[Ishmael]

I guess I'm just misinterpreting what people are insinuating.

No, you are engaged in mind reading and prejudice. The very thing you are railing agianst in this thread.

Ishmael

 

[Weird Harold]

Rather than looking at the knowledge one has, because of who I am (regarding my age) my opinion is seen as less than.

You know, in this medium there is no way to know someone's age unless they make an issue of it or post it someplace.

I've corresponded with several people whose age I misjudged by several decades before I discovered what their true age was. If your age is an issue with how your opinions are perceived, it's because you have made it an issue.

 

[Siren]

 

[Diablogrl]

but I'm not so familiar with American Law Schools except the one mine used to kick to the curb in hockey and debating every year...harvard.....

oh god! please do not tell me that we share a connection to the same school! which school are you referring to Lance? I went to undergrad in upstate NY.

 

[Texan]

the condescension is very apparent on this thread, the only thing missing is a pat on the head and a there there lil girl.

So I guess you aren't in the market for a "mentor".

 

[Weird Harold]

the only thing missing is a pat on the head and a there there lil girl.

*Pats Siren on the head* There, There little girl.

Feel better now?

 

[Rubyfruit]

I disagree Siren. I don't see the condescension you speak of, at all.

I see people who genuinely like Lav, offering her a different perspective than the one she currently holds. That's it.

 

[Siren]

 

[Cheyenne]

there has been quite alot of condescension going on in this thread. I can see it.

The lil bit about "seal this thread up and look at it in 20 years so you can see how right we all were' is very condescending.

I find it insulting.

Sorry, you seem to take whatever I say in any thread as condescending. When I mean to be condescending, I leave no doubt. This ain't it.

In this case, I am making an honest suggestion. I truly believe keeping a copy of this thread and rereading it at age 40 will give Lavy a smile at that time.