More gov. involvement in healthcare will make it more efficient and less expensive

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ever notice how libruls talk about Canada with the same fondness Baptists talk about Heaven?

 

[mercury14]

Ever notice how libruls talk about Canada with the same fondness Baptists talk about Heaven?

I've worked in a country with single-payor universal health care, in the health care field. It wasn't heaven, but it put the American system to shame.

 

[Stewart_Pidd]

Your answer must begin with the words TRUE or FALSE. No beating around the bush.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FALSE. Government interference never makes anything more efficient and less expensive.

that's funny bro

Stew

 

[unregistered]

 

[cjh]

Fuck you, dunce.

For having an opinion based on his experience?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Ease up vette, where else in the world are you, in the same day, treated to a guy who claims that an industry is at once in a known death spiral and been rescued by Obamacare as witnessed by a tripling in stock prices? Because the Liberals are all about saving the private health care industry not nationalizing it although many of them would like to see National Health Care, but that does not mean they want to destroy private health care; they just want to dictate to it who and what it will and will not cover...



“And guess what this liberal will be all about? This liberal will be all about socializing, uh, uh… would be about basically about taking over the government running all of your companies.”
Maxine Waters

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

For having an opinion based on his experience?

You cannot trust his claims to experience.

He lies. It's okay to lie because he's talking to infidels...

I've studied at these places. One of them even threw a master's degree at me. Dr. Minerva's bioethics course was superb, though I found myself wishing it wasn't so focused on the Catholic perspective.

Her specialty is the area where secular and religious ethics collide. It's fascinating stuff and she's super passionate about her work. She was a bit hard to understand at times being Italian and speaking with an aglo/aussie twang. It was charming at first but as the weeks dragged on it just became hard to hear.

I call bullshit. She wasn't in Melbourne until last June.

Some posts. In Eyer threads. Are not. Serious.

Ugh.

I didn't really pick up my life and move to Australia to study philosophy if you must know.

(as if you could pay me to study philosophy anywhere).

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=800325

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

No for telling a fucking lie. If I said that you'd ask for proof.

The funniest thing was that Ishmael took a health care stock and showed that it did not double or triple in value, then merc called him a liar, picked a more favorable start date, showed that it only went up 26% (inline with the entire market rise, now that market numbers mean something again) and accused him of cherry picking and then he went out and cherry-picked a stock to demonstrate that all health care stocks had doubled and tripled in price...

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The old I'm a dope rope-a-dope.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

If hospitals were run like automobile service stations, it would be more straightforward. Parts and labor. You get the keys back when you pay the bill.

The insurance companies screwed up fee for service healthcare in the 60's and 70's. That is a big part of the reason we are where we are today. I don't see a way of going back.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The insurance companies screwed up fee for service healthcare in the 60's and 70's. That is a big part of the reason we are where we are today. I don't see a way of going back.

Ted Kennedy

 

[mercury14]

The funniest thing was that Ishmael took a health care stock and showed that it did not double or triple in value, then merc called him a liar, picked a more favorable start date, showed that it only went up 26% (inline with the entire market rise, now that market numbers mean something again) and accused him of cherry picking and then he went out and cherry-picked a stock to demonstrate that all health care stocks had doubled and tripled in price...

Yes I misspoke. What I should have said is that many healthcare stocks doubled in price since the bottom of the recession, which is true. Cigna actually went from 8.82 to 44.20, quintupling in value since the recession.

Since the passage of the Affordable Care Act, Cigna (Ish's chosen example) has increased 26% in value. When I asked you and Ish both how you reconcile such an increase with your conviction that the reforms are about to wipe out the entire industry, you got real quiet. You're still quiet. My question floored you and you've failed to muster a response with even the slightest bit of coherency.

Oh and my "more favorable start date" to check what industry stock prices have done since the passage of the Affordable Care Act was March 23, 2010. Because you know, that's the date the law was passed. And you're going to attack me for it?

What date would do you think is better?

 

[mercury14]

You cannot trust his claims to experience.

He lies. It's okay to lie because he's talking to infidelsl

Listen dumbfuck, I was messing with Eyer the other day when I called myself an Australian philosophy student. I was exactly 0% serious. I am neither Australian nor a philosophy student (current or past).

I dressed up like a pirate for Halloween. I went around in a pirate getup and acted like a pirate for a few hours. It was fun as always.

WHAAA!!! MERC LIED!!! HE SAID HE'S A PIRATE BUT HE'S NOT!!! YOU CAN'T TRUST ANYTHING THAT FAKE PIRATE SAYS! HE DOESN'T EVEN SAIL A REAL PIRATE SHIP OR BURY TREASURE AND I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE I CROSS-POST THIS SCANDAL IN EVERY THREAD HE POSTS IN!!!

It was a Halloween costume. I drive a Nissan in real life.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT DAY IT WAS BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU WERE A REAL PIRATE AND YOU LIED!!!

 

[mercury14]

No for telling a fucking lie. If I said that you'd ask for proof.

I worked for 11 months of my residency in Toronto and Windsor. I spent time at an urban inner-city public health clinic and rotated with the other residents through three hospitals and a locked inpatient mental health facility. I also worked a half day per week at a university's student health office. Our residency program was connected with the one in Toronto so lots of us went back and forth.

Additionally I've worked in three American cities and come this July it will be four. And with the USAF I've worked on bases in three different countries plus Afghanistan and Iraq.

I also had a brief career as a social worker that pre-dates all of this. I'm not as young as you might think I am.

 

[phrodeau]

And now all the conservatives are poring through public records trying to find mercury14's real name.

 

[mercury14]

And now all the conservatives are poring through public records trying to find mercury14's real name.

http://mougar2010.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/bruce_wayne_as_batman_movie.jpg?w=300&h=200

 

[RobDownSouth]

See AJ derp. Derp, AJ, derp!

The funniest thing was that Ishmael took a health care stock and showed that it did not double or triple in value, then merc called him a liar, picked a more favorable start date, showed that it only went up 26% (inline with the entire market rise, now that market numbers mean something again) and accused him of cherry picking and then he went out and cherry-picked a stock to demonstrate that all health care stocks had doubled and tripled in price...

Situational Red Man speaking with forked tongue yet again.

Ishmael was the one who had the arbitrary stock market date. Mercury corrected him and showed the 58% or so stock run-up since the recession (you remember that recession, right? that thing that Vetteman claimed didn't exist as long as Bush was president?) ended, compared to a 30% rise in the market.

Naturally, you didn't like his facts, so you did your usual re-interpretation of facts so that they fit your preconceived political positions.

 

[phrodeau]

Situational Red Man speaking with forked tongue yet again.

Ishmael was the one who had the arbitrary stock market date. Mercury corrected him and showed the 58% or so stock run-up since the recession (you remember that recession, right? that thing that Vetteman claimed didn't exist as long as Bush was president?) ended, compared to a 30% rise in the market.

Naturally, you didn't like his facts, so you did your usual re-interpretation of facts so that they fit your preconceived political positions.

They learned those tricks in the climate change threads.

And they're still learning.

 

[just pet]

I worked for 11 months of my residency in Toronto and Windsor. I spent time at an urban inner-city public health clinic and rotated with the other residents through three hospitals and a locked inpatient mental health facility. I also worked a half day per week at a university's student health office. Our residency program was connected with the one in Toronto so lots of us went back and forth.

Additionally I've worked in three American cities and come this July it will be four. And with the USAF I've worked on bases in three different countries plus Afghanistan and Iraq.

I also had a brief career as a social worker that pre-dates all of this. I'm not as young as you might think I am.

Rather sounds like you couldn't hold down a job

 

[mercury14]

Rather sounds like you couldn't hold down a job

LOL, you're probably right.

I just left a job a few weeks ago as well and went back to the USAF reserve thing part time, then they sent me to Japan to meet with some people filming a documentary on the US military's role in Operation Tomadachi, which was the joint US-Japanese partnership in the earthquake/tsunami rescue and cleanup. So I'm kind of chilling here doing that for a couple weeks, though there's not a ton for me to do.

Then it's back to our base (in Asia) until June to see patients at the clinic part time. After that my wife is separating from the USAF and we're moving back to Ohio (maybe), where I'll get yet another job. I'm currently interviewing.

My CV is getting out of hand.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Your answer must begin with the words TRUE or FALSE. No beating around the bush.

False....when I see the gov make ANYTHING more efficient and cheaper than the private sector I will believe it.

The staggering cost of health care is all about eugenics.

Depriving mostly poor and uneducated people of medicine and health care weeds out the weak and incompetent in our society.

Read here about social darwinism.

Gene pool has to be culled somehow....

TRUE.

IN Europe, Australasia and a little country just north of the USA, more government involvement involves on average considerably less expenditure per head of the population on health care.

JURY OUT but in my view TRUE.

You'd have to define efficency to get clear answers. My proposal would be that longevity at birth is an appropriate measure. In that case, TRUE is the answer: more government involvement in health care than in the USA generally correlates with greater average life expectancy.

This is not EU, AU or CA....this is 'Merica! and everything the gov touches here goes to shit. Gov took over education....been in a nose dive ever since, why would I trust them with my health care.

Waiting 6-8 months so they can finish doing the paper work for you ER visit while your having a hear attack is what you will end up with just like every other gov run service in merica.

Efficiency is not about life expectancy....efficiency is about how quick is the service, and how many days will I spend on hold with some government worker who doesn't give a fuck (because he/she gets 50k a year regardless) trying to get my insano expensive bill taken care of.

 

[Sean Renaud]

True. Though miles is scum and is fiddling with the question.

 

[mercury14]

False....when I see the gov make ANYTHING more efficient and cheaper than the private sector I will believe it.

The government doesn't make things, it provides services. And some of those are cheaper than the private sector. Medicare is more efficient and cheaper than Aetna for example. It doesn't raise prices to increase profits, buy TV commercials, or buy stadium naming rights.

This was a major Republican argument against the government option during the health care reform debates: "How could private insurance companies be expected to compete against much cheaper government plans?" Their argument is completely incoherent... Government is too efficient and too inefficient at the same time.