After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

[Angellica1612]

Lol. Well, I have to leave this in your hands. I work nights and it's time for bed. Have a great day!

 

[tactful]

And for dining afterwards, there's always, Placenta Helper, it will add zest to just about any meal.

 

[KRCummings]

I've studied at these places. One of them even threw a master's degree at me. Dr. Minerva's bioethics course was superb, though I found myself wishing it wasn't so focused on the Catholic perspective.

Her specialty is the area where secular and religious ethics collide. It's fascinating stuff and she's super passionate about her work. She was a bit hard to understand at times being Italian and speaking with an aglo/aussie twang. It was charming at first but as the weeks dragged on it just became hard to hear.

I call bullshit. She wasn't in Melbourne until last June.

 

[TexasWife25]

this thread is a whole lotta stupid. Why am I not surprised?

 

[LucyH]

I once had a philosophy professor who was of the opinion that a newborn wasn't really a person yet, but that infanticide shouldn't be legal because birth made a good cutoff point. Since birth occurred well in advance of when a human animal became a person, we could avoid inadvertently murdering anyone by not killing any humans after they were born.

Philosophy professors can be rather odd birds sometimes.

 

[mercury14]

I call bullshit. She wasn't in Melbourne until last June.

Some posts. In Eyer threads. Are not. Serious.

Ugh.

I didn't really pick up my life and move to Australia to study philosophy if you must know.

(as if you could pay me to study philosophy anywhere).

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Remember the shit that hit the fan when I, tongue in cheek, offered up the same proposal several years ago? It appears that I'm not the only one that did some reading on the "Roman Model" for society.

Ishmael

This reminded me...

In ancient Rome, the paterfamilias had the power of life or death over his children from birth onward. After a baby was born, the midwife put it on the floor. If the father picked the child up, it was formally a member of the family. If not, the infant was exposed to the elements on a hillside, where it would die of exposure or be devoured by wild animals. Sometimes the child was picked up by slave-dealers, who were interested in raising the children to a marketable age, then selling them for work in such professions as prostitution.

The Roman father's absolute right to kill his children was challenged by Christians, who, along with those who followed Judaism, forbade infanticide.

Eventually, due to the influence of Christianity, infanticide was almost completely erased from the West. Parents' absolute right to do what they wished with their newborn children was bounded by the law, even though the practice would continue sporadically outside the law. Direct advocacy for and promulgation of infanticide virtually died out, with the notable exception of dictatorial regimes such as the Third Reich.
Until now.

Recently, advocates for the parental right to kill unwanted newborns have appeared in the forms of Drs. Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva, whose paper for the Australian Journal of Medical Ethics advocates "after birth abortion."

Giubilini's and Minerva's main argument consists of the relentless logic which pro-life advocates predicted would be an eventual consequence of the Roe v. Wade decision by the Supreme Court of the U.S. in 1973. That decision essentially permitted abortion on demand throughout the entire nine months of gestation. Pro-life advocates predicted that the arguments in favor of abortion could just as easily be applied to newborns and the elderly as well as any other "undesirable" group of human beings. The decision set morality concerning human life tumbling down a slippery slope, they argued. If a fetus could be declared not human or deserving of rights, then newborns' lives would also be jeopardized -- to say nothing of the elderly and chronically ill.

The slippery slope argument has long been scorned by the liberal left, who adamantly denied that born human beings would also eventually be subject to death sentences handed out to the unborn. Preposterous, the left cried. A logical fallacy! Never would happen! "B" does not follow "A"!

But Giubilini and Minerva have used the slippery slope argument in favor of infanticide, thereby showing that pro-life advocates correctly predicted such a logical development.
Among the arguments the doctors utilize:

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/infanticide_on_demand.html#ixzz1ns6aNngP

So there we have it.

Infanticide on demand is now to follow abortion on demand. No argumentation for infanticide remains merely abstract or a mere verbal game. Regardless of whether or not the authors were "only" ethicists, their article appeared in a respected medical journal and should be taken seriously. Lest any reader think our current president and administration would adamantly oppose such measures as Giubilini and Minerva advocate, it is well to recall that our president voted against saving the lives of babies who somehow escape being killed by abortion. He also voted in favor of partial-birth abortion.

The slippery slope argument of pro-life advocates has been vindicated by leftists who formerly ridiculed the argument as absurd. The arguments of Giubilini and Minerva follow a gruesomely reversed and morally repugnant logic which now openly advocates the murder of infants.

Just as in ancient pagan Rome, parents are now to have absolute authority over their child's life. Just as they presently have the absolute authority to decide to abort their unborn children for any reason or no reason at all, so now they are to given the power to decide whether or not their newborn baby lives or dies, if the left gets its way.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I call bullshit. She wasn't in Melbourne until last June.

I've studied at these places. One of them even threw a master's degree at me. Dr. Minerva's bioethics course was superb, though I found myself wishing it wasn't so focused on the Catholic perspective.

Some posts. In Eyer threads. Are not. Serious.

Ugh.

I didn't really pick up my life and move to Australia to study philosophy if you must know.

(as if you could pay me to study philosophy anywhere).

Old honest merc...

 

[Ishmael]

This reminded me...



Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/infanticide_on_demand.html#ixzz1ns6aNngP

"Exposure' has been practiced by many cultures over the centuries. Some just out and out murdered the child. What was not brought up in the article, or at least not explicitly, was that the Roman Pater held the power of life and death over his children until such time as he himself was dead, although if the Pater decided to 'off' an adult child (post puberty) he'd better be able to do a lot of 'splainin' because that was frowned upon without damn good reason. This power led to more than a few cases of Patricide.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The Spartans were pretty harsh to their kids.


We went the other way and got the Flower Children...

They produced Barack Hussein Obama.

 

[Ishmael]

The Spartans were pretty harsh to their kids.


We went the other way and got the Flower Children...

They produced Barack Hussein Obama.

Who is among the groups now rationalizing infanticide and elimination of the elderly.

The article also credits the Christians and Jews for eliminating the practice of infanticide, and in a, more or less, affluent society this is accurate. But the so called Barbarians also went out of their way to protect women and children albeit for a different reason. Their reasons were less philosophical and considerably more pragmatic in that their lives were quite brutal and without practicing protections they risked extinction by not being able to replace their numbers.

All of which goes to point out that over the centuries the value of human life has followed the basic laws of supply and demand. Of particular interest regarding this thread is that the proposals for postpartum abortions (infanticide) are being brought forth by folks that are living in those parts of the world that are dying out anyway. One has to look no further than the fertility rate demographics. That being the case exactly what cultures are the targets of their proposals? Are they suggesting that a form of genocide be forced upon those cultures to be found in non-compliance with whatever metric they decide to come up with, or are they suggesting that the developed nations begin practicing cultural suicide?

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Other forms of acceptable Democrat behavior seem to include gems such as this:

While you're at it, could you come up with a plan to cancel out America's nigger amnesty policy? And who gave Pocahontas and her drunk-ass tribe citizenship?

 

[mercury14]

Other forms of acceptable Democrat behavior seem to include gems such as this:

Why do you find it unacceptable if I mock James' racism with sarcastic hyperbole. Are you defending him and his epic racist rants?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

While you're at it, could you come up with a plan to cancel out America's nigger amnesty policy? And who gave Pocahontas and her drunk-ass tribe citizenship?

You think it's okay to use this language.

You think it's okay to lie.

We get that.

 

[mercury14]

You think it's okay to use this language.

You think it's okay to lie.

We get that.

Yes it's okay to use the word 'nigger'. Why not?

 

[fgarvb1]

by Alberto Giubilini, Monash University in Melbourne, and Francesca Minerva, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the University of Melbourne:



Yes, you read that correctly: these fine folks are submitting that newborns should be aborted at will now, too.

If you've the stomach for it, read their entire paper here:

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full

Yeah, you will want to kill old people off too, they get like babies except bigger. Oh!


Go ahead and laugh.

Many of you alive now will live to see those days arrive.
And sick people! and people who don't go along with your beliefs and...

 

[dolf]

the people who write these things are, bless them, so far removed from human connections and actual children. in theory, cold theory, without hearts or souls or desire for life, this makes sense. unwanted mouths to feed, probability of children who go through care or who are unwanted ending up in prison/drugs/prostitution.
i don't feel the need to scream and shake my fists and get all upset that these tweed suited academics put forth an opinion that will never become law in our society. they're no threat, they're just... disabled, in a sense.

*resisting strangling the evil teen*

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Yes it's okay to use the word 'nigger'. Why not?

In certain context sure. I enjoyed reading The Nigger of the 'Narcissus': A Tale of the Sea.

It is only because its unfortunate name that it is not a classic.

 

[semen4her]

In certain context sure. I enjoyed reading The Nigger of the 'Narcissus': A Tale of the Sea.

It is only because its unfortunate name that it is not a classic.

It's also unfortunate that Wiki says the exact same thing.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Seems someone missed the point.

2+2=4

I bet Wikki would tell you that as well.......

 

[bitofakate]

the people who write these things are, bless them, so far removed from human connections and actual children. in theory, cold theory, without hearts or souls or desire for life, this makes sense. unwanted mouths to feed, probability of children who go through care or who are unwanted ending up in prison/drugs/prostitution.
i don't feel the need to scream and shake my fists and get all upset that these tweed suited academics put forth an opinion that will never become law in our society. they're no threat, they're just... disabled, in a sense.

*resisting strangling the evil teen*

I don't know. I am beginning to believe that legalised abortion up to the 57th trimester should be considered if not implemented immediately.

 

[dolf]

I don't know. I am beginning to believe that legalised abortion up to the 57th trimester should be considered if not implemented immediately.

it's only gets better