After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

[eyer]

by Alberto Giubilini, Monash University in Melbourne, and Francesca Minerva, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the University of Melbourne:

Abstract
Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.

Yes, you read that correctly: these fine folks are submitting that newborns should be aborted at will now, too.

If you've the stomach for it, read their entire paper here:

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full

 

[Labattz21]

obviously some new age morons looking for shock value attention..maybe they should be aborted as adults..

 

[CandiCame]

Ever read common sense? If not, you'd like it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'd like to see a law that allows public schools to 'put down' every kind of problem kid.

 

[mercury14]

by Alberto Giubilini, Monash University in Melbourne, and Francesca Minerva, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the University of Melbourne

I've studied at these places. One of them even threw a master's degree at me. Dr. Minerva's bioethics course was superb, though I found myself wishing it wasn't so focused on the Catholic perspective.

 

[CandiCame]

I've studied at these places. One of them even threw a master's degree at me. Dr. Minerva's bioethics course was superb, though I found myself wishing it wasn't so focused on the Catholic perspective.

Catholic bioethics? Did you get to sing Monty Python songs or did a really good joke just fly right over my head?

 

[mercury14]

Catholic bioethics? Did you get to sing Monty Python songs or did a really good joke just fly right over my head?

Her specialty is the area where secular and religious ethics collide. It's fascinating stuff and she's super passionate about her work. She was a bit hard to understand at times being Italian and speaking with an aglo/aussie twang. It was charming at first but as the weeks dragged on it just became hard to hear.

 

[CandiCame]

Her specialty is the area where secular and religious ethics collide. It's fascinating stuff and she's super passionate about her work. She was a bit hard to understand at times being Italian and speaking with an aglo/aussie twang. It was charming at first but as the weeks dragged on it just became hard to hear.

OMG, my psychopharmocology teacher was like that, but she was from China. She had a ridiculous accent- for someone who's teaching an English speaking group, and that class was much harder then it's drug addled name led me to believe- which was insane with not being able to understand the Prof. Worst. Elective. Ever.

 

[Mike_Yates]

by Alberto Giubilini, Monash University in Melbourne, and Francesca Minerva, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the University of Melbourne:



Yes, you read that correctly: these fine folks are submitting that newborns should be aborted at will now, too.

If you've the stomach for it, read their entire paper here:

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full

I believe children with disabilities (especially mental disabilities) should be aborted. These kids go on to have extremely difficult and troubled lives, that's no way to live.

I have borderline intellectual functioning, a mild cognitive disorder caused by bad genetics.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

obviously some new age morons looking for shock value attention..maybe they should be aborted as adults..

It's the only way to be sure...

 

[Angellica1612]

Did any of you actually read the paper the OP linked? These people are sick. They are saying that we should be legally allowed to murder a baby days, even weeks, after birth. Even a healthy baby! And they didn't come right out and say it, but murdering the elderly won't be far behind. If this doesn't sicken you, maybe you should have been aborted.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

obviously some new age morons looking for shock value attention..maybe they should be aborted as adults..

Really? Our president voted to kill abortion survivors...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Did any of you actually read the paper the OP linked? These people are sick. They are saying that we should be legally allowed to murder a baby days, even weeks, after birth. Even a healthy baby! And they didn't come right out and say it, but murdering the elderly won't be far behind. If this doesn't sicken you, maybe you should have been aborted.

It is a logical conclusion based on the arguments I have run across based on quality of life and the cost to society of unwanted children and "Why don't all you hateful right-wingers who want to control my body adopt all those children!"

 

[Angellica1612]

It is a logical conclusion based on the arguments I have run across based on quality of life and the cost to society of unwanted children and "Why don't all you hateful right-wingers who want to control my body adopt all those children!"

I don't see it as logical at all. If two people decide to have a child, they know there is a risk of a problem whether genetic or circumstantial. All that rambling crap about "potential persons" and non-persons and not being harmed is just that, a bunch of crap. Humans are supposed to be above the animals, not be animals. So a woman gives birth to a healthy child and for whatever reason is not in a position to raise the child. These nuts are claiming that giving it up for adoption would be too much of a burden on her. Boo hoo, she might suffer regret. Life is full of tough choices and regrets. Murdering a living infant is NOT the answer. I used to babysit for a little girl with MD. She couldn't walk, required surgeries at various times in her life, has various problems. But she is a bright, talented, wonderful person. These people are saying that, because she places a burden on her family, her parents should have been allowed to kill her. They didn't find out she had the disease until she was a few weeks old. By then, I'd started babysitting her, and fallen completely in love with her. Yes, she's suffered. Yes, she needs help. Yes, it was a financial and emotional burden on her family. But they have certainly never regretted having her. The thought that someone would murder a baby like her just makes me so sick and angry. They are monsters masquerading as intelligent people. If this is what 'intellectuals' believe, I'm glad I'm not as 'smart' as they are. There is more to smart than IQ, way more. Sorry to rant in a response to you, Forrest, I'm just really, really bothered by this whole idea.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

by Alberto Giubilini, Monash University in Melbourne, and Francesca Minerva, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the University of Melbourne:



Yes, you read that correctly: these fine folks are submitting that newborns should be aborted at will now, too.

If you've the stomach for it, read their entire paper here:

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full

So much for Lit.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I don't see it as logical at all. If two people decide to have a child, they know there is a risk of a problem whether genetic or circumstantial. All that rambling crap about "potential persons" and non-persons and not being harmed is just that, a bunch of crap. Humans are supposed to be above the animals, not be animals. So a woman gives birth to a healthy child and for whatever reason is not in a position to raise the child. These nuts are claiming that giving it up for adoption would be too much of a burden on her. Boo hoo, she might suffer regret. Life is full of tough choices and regrets. Murdering a living infant is NOT the answer. I used to babysit for a little girl with MD. She couldn't walk, required surgeries at various times in her life, has various problems. But she is a bright, talented, wonderful person. These people are saying that, because she places a burden on her family, her parents should have been allowed to kill her. They didn't find out she had the disease until she was a few weeks old. By then, I'd started babysitting her, and fallen completely in love with her. Yes, she's suffered. Yes, she needs help. Yes, it was a financial and emotional burden on her family. But they have certainly never regretted having her. The thought that someone would murder a baby like her just makes me so sick and angry. They are monsters masquerading as intelligent people. If this is what 'intellectuals' believe, I'm glad I'm not as 'smart' as they are. There is more to smart than IQ, way more. Sorry to rant in a response to you, Forrest, I'm just really, really bothered by this whole idea.

There's your problem. They never address it as anything other than a victim. A single mom, a teen girl, SHE WAS JUST RAPED BY DADDY and you want to force her to keep the baby???!!!!!



The abortion is always justified, in the words of the President, because we don't want to "punish" her with a baby.

Now, as a former liberal guy, I loved all these arguments, society had the girls already pre-seduced with the constant messaging, you cannot control yourself, the urges are too strong, when you do have sex and an accident happens, we will be here for you, we will clean up the mess, you can have a life of no consequence. Well, the life of no consequence is just what a liberal guy wants! Lots of sex, no repercussions, the woman is just an object to be used, if she gets pregnant, flush it and you're out of there; any long term psychological damage is not your fault, after all, they are less than human, that's what you want them to know and understand, girls are just one step above feral...



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=773814

But now that I'm older, I'm wondering how the iPAB will treat me should circumstance render me hostage to my own former liberal ideology should I fall upon tough times.

They just might give me a pill and tell me its time to go on the long walk, just like my ancestors...

 

[Angellica1612]

There's your problem. They never address it as anything other than a victim. A single mom, a teen girl, SHE WAS JUST RAPED BY DADDY and you want to force her to keep the baby???!!!!!



The abortion is always justified, in the words of the President, because we don't want to "punish" her with a baby.

Now, as a former liberal guy, I loved all these arguments, society had the girls already pre-seduced with the constant messaging, you cannot control yourself, the urges are too strong, when you do have sex and an accident happens, we will be here for you, we will clean up the mess, you can have a life of no consequence. Well, the life of no consequence is just what a liberal guy wants! Lots of sex, no repercussions, the woman is just an object to be used, if she gets pregnant, flush it and you're out of there; any long term psychological damage is not your fault, after all, they are less than human, that's what you want them to know and understand, girls are just one step above feral...



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=773814

But now that I'm older, I'm wondering how the iPAB will treat me should circumstance render me hostage to my own former liberal ideology should I fall upon tough times.

They just might give me a pill and tell me its time to go on the long walk, just like my ancestors...

You're right, that won't be far behind if this idea becomes law.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

Did any of you actually read the paper the OP linked? These people are sick. They are saying that we should be legally allowed to murder a baby days, even weeks, after birth. Even a healthy baby! And they didn't come right out and say it, but murdering the elderly won't be far behind. If this doesn't sicken you, maybe you should have been aborted.

Right. And it surprises me there are not more pro choicers here at Lit defending their right to kill babies.

 

[Angellica1612]

Right. And it surprises me there are not more pro choicers here at Lit defending their right to kill babies.

I'm sure they'll show up soon.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You're right, that won't be far behind if this idea becomes law.

I'm sure they'll show up soon.

Most of them probably have Eyer on ignore...

 

[Angellica1612]

Most of them probably have Eyer on ignore...

Probably, but the ones that don't will eventually show up. I bet they PM the others and send them in too, lol.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

I'm sure they'll show up soon.

Most of them probably have Eyer on ignore...

Oh, the alt brigade will be along shortly to take care of that. Their caffiene and energy drinks have not kicked in yet.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Oh, the alt brigade will be along shortly to take care of that. Their caffiene and energy drinks have not kicked in yet.

They do sleep in later than Franklin would advise...

 

[Ishmael]

Most of them probably have Eyer on ignore...

Remember the shit that hit the fan when I, tongue in cheek, offered up the same proposal several years ago? It appears that I'm not the only one that did some reading on the "Roman Model" for society.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Remember the shit that hit the fan when I, tongue in cheek, offered up the same proposal several years ago? It appears that I'm not the only one that did some reading on the "Roman Model" for society.

Ishmael

*chuckle*