monogamy-why?

[James G 5]

I’d like to say I’m sorry for those who may have felt insulted or attacked by my posting. I'm sorry you can't differentiate between an intelligent Health Debate and Being Judgmental. I take it those who chose to state I’m being insulting and Judgmental can’t rebuttal my Statements. I didn’t just stand out and attack anyone and any aggression I imposed was in defense.

As far as being Judgmental I’m not so inclined. This is a Thread with a Moral and Personal topic. Joining in debating that isn’t Being Judgmental. If anything I’m passionate about Monogamy and believe Polyanything is against the good practice of Commitment and Loyalty by hiding behind a Verbal Commitment. When I feel with very very rare exception poloanything is just another form of waiting for something better to come along with out the tossing of the first asset. Yes as said before Commitment it self isn’t constrained to two persons. I’m using commitment in a different form here. One can commitment to not being committed which IMO isn’t commitment.

And I’m glade we got Definitions out, cleared some of my own ignorance as I’m sure it did many others. For this reason I’ll clarify some of my before mentioned points.

In using ReadyOne definitions

Polygamous/Polyandry: Being in a cultural or religion that accepts the practice of multiple wives/husbands isn’t what I considered in many of my arguments this is a wholly different topic. However I feel this is an ancient outdated from of culture that doesn’t have an acceptable place in a modern Developed world. Most if not all Developed nations have laws forbidding it.

Polyamory – IMO is an escape from true commitment. Entering a relationship and saying I’m going to have sex with others, swing etc.. lacks the Fundamental Values a Healthy good relationship needs. It’s a joining of sexual retaliations and not giving your self to one completely which IMO is a prerequisite for being in love. If a group of people have a strong friendship along with a sexual attraction it’s not being In Love. It’s loving each other and having sex as well. Thought this relationship could be virtuous it’s selling your self short of the next step of full unity.

Being in a Monogamist relationship and years later choosing or deciding your now Polly is failing at the previous relationship. with the exception of terminating that one and establishing a new one with different Partners who enter the new one with Commitment to the new life style.

People in a Polylifestyle of any befor-mentioned ideas in no way Threaten me. I feel they are selling themselves short and fear surrendering to love.

Man, you STILL don't get it...Poly is NOT running around & doing a lot of different people, looking for the "next best thing"
Poly CAN include open relationships, but it can also include committed GROUPS of 3 or more
Verbal commitments are used because there's no legal option for other sorts of comittments
That's like the argument used by anti-gay crusaders for years of saying they didn't commit to relationships...and then turning around & fighting allowing them to marry

And there's a limit to reasoned debate when you put people in derogatory categories, continually mix up ideas even when people explain you're not seeing sides of things, and start throwing in assertions about God decreeing certain things

 

[James G 5]

Yes your right. it was a bit harsh. (sorry about random CAPTs it's a strange habbit of mine i haven't figured out why i do it though.)

But let me lighten it now it's been argued. Monogamy and true complete love requires surrendering to it. And I feel Polywhatever is the inability to surrender to it. Which can be argued as strength.

Surrendering completely to commitment, unity and Love is a higher state of being. Not monogamy it’s self.

and please don’t get me started on anti-marriage. ack you got me.

I’ll just say this if you don’t want to married you shouldn’t. but your selling your self short if you don’t

Wait wait wait, so comitted monogamy isn't enough, you have to go thru some ritual too?
Is a couthouse wedding good enough, or does it have to be in a church so God can bless it too?

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I am another polyamorous person. Monogamy just *feels* strange to me. I have been content in one on one relationships but for me to be *happy* I KNOW I require a lady and a sometime man..it's just my preference I would guess.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by James G 5
Man, you STILL don't get it...


<snip>

That was my thought exactly.....


And how you can say you're not judgmental Aaron I have no idea....just for one example...calling people 'evil'...sounds judgmental in my books...and I"m way too tired to bother listing them all.


No problem with you having your own opinion...no problem with discussing it...but get your facts straight...listen to what other people contribute....and separate what's right for you versus what everyone else needs to do to be virtuous...it's an intellectual discussion...even bringing 'virtuous' into it is judgmental.

Sorry folks, just couldn't shut up any more...now I'm going back to lurking on this thread...

 

[sxylegs]

I hate when people use the excuse "we're only human" or something equivelant. It implies that men and women both are just so barbaric they just can't help themselves from wanting to be with other people. This is absolutely not true. And as for your first question I can answer that there's at least one person....probably many more. I never ever think about having relations with anyone else and all my thoughts (at least romantically, sexually, relationship speaking) are of him and only him. I am in no way obsessed nor is it an unhealthy relationship. Nor do I have to force myself to think that way or to not look at other people or to be monogamous....that's just how it is for me when I'm with someone I'm in a committed relationship with. So it is not just human nature for people to check out everyone else.

KinkyKiki

I dont believe that there is anybody that doesnt check people out. Im not say that we check everybody out for sex....but we check out their clothes, we check out their butts, we check out their color....we check out their size........If Brad pitt was walking in front of you, you would check out his butt......it is human.....and it is human to get a little thrill........women are not as visual as men.....and we dont act upon it like they do.....But everybody checks out everybody else......I appreciate the human body like everybody else......I enjoy looking at women as much as men and not in a sexual way.....how do you think we get clothing styles?

Are you going to tell me that you dont have a to-do list......that if you are free and ever meet this person then you will do them? that to-do list becomes a joking issue....but it is still there...... you seem very loyal and honest, but it is difficult not to appreciate the human in all forms....but just that, not slober over it in sexual wants

 

[crazybbwgirl]

hmmmm? Puts a whole new spin on the dreaded "To Do" list! I like it! (scratching off chores, writing in names......)

 

[Kissophile]

Like Wicked Woman, I've been primarily a lurker in this thread. While this is mostly because I'm not sure I have much to add to the discussion, it's also because the level of discourse has frequently descended to a low level of emotion-baiting and name-calling. If I wanted to experience that I'd pay attention to political commercials.

Much of what has happened in this thread recently has reminded me of discussions of other issues where some people see a moral imperative to proselytize. So often in those "discussions," at least one side is held by people who have chosen to ignore the merits of the other side of the argument. What results is a shouting match - a sort of "Hannity and Combs" for the Literotica viewing public. No, thank you; I'd rather not read such tripe. However, I do read the thread because I like to see what other people think and because a few people here (I note Noor, Sheath, and James G5 in particular, though I apologize if I've left out other strong contributors) have made an effort to keep the discussion at a rational level.

Why is it so difficult for some people to consider monogamy as a choice and not a moral obligation? I think it's because, for many people, the religious sacrament that "blesses" a marriage becomes more than just a symbol for the choice of monogamy. For them, it seems to become a set of marching orders to defend the way, to battle in defense of the institution. For those who think this way, I have one thing to say. If you're going to do battle, you're going to be slaughtered unless you take the time to learn everything possible about your foe.

While we who believe differently from you are not really your foes, it would pay to understand before you attack. And to do that you have to listen, consider the other's argument, and try it on for size. I'd love to see that, actually. But I don't think I'm going to hold my breath.

 

[KinkyKiki]

See, that's where there's a problem
Feeling it's wrong for YOU is ok
Feeling it's wrong for OTHERS, unless you can prove harm, and acting on that feeling is wrong and hurtful to others

You want monogamy for you, GREAT! I hope you're very happy
Just don't disparage me for living differently

No actually there's not a problem there because I do believe it's wrong. I believe it's wrong for me and I believe it's wrong for everyone else, but that's just MY opinion. It's how I feel. Others don't feel that it's wrong for themselves and that's fine for them, no problem here. I'm just telling you my beliefs on the subject. I am not disparaging anyone who wants to live differently, I don't judge those individuals or berate them for their choices. All I was trying to say is that I believe it to be wrong period.

KinkyKiki

 

[crazybbwgirl]

And its all I can do not to shout it from the roof tops - "Don't get married! You're wasting your life! Its a bad deal!" But I TRY not to. I know I've upset many on this board with my little "marriage is for suckers" quote that I use so often. And I've (almost) quit using it - cuz then I AM judging others. But its HARD to be nice when I so sure I am right! lol

 

[KinkyKiki]

And its all I can do not to shout it from the roof tops - "Don't get married! You're wasting your life! Its a bad deal!" But I TRY not to. I know I've upset many on this board with my little "marriage is for suckers" quote that I use so often. And I've (almost) quit using it - cuz then I AM judging others. But its HARD to be nice when I so sure I am right! lol

LOL personally I find that quote quite funny and amusing....mostly because I don't see how in the world you can believe that. I mean I know you've explained it, but as I said in an earlier post you do make a few good points, but I sitll don't think you should classify it as defining of MOST marriages, but I think the majority are qite different from how you portray them.

KinkyKiki

 

[sxylegs]

And its all I can do not to shout it from the roof tops - "Don't get married! You're wasting your life! Its a bad deal!" But I TRY not to. I know I've upset many on this board with my little "marriage is for suckers" quote that I use so often. And I've (almost) quit using it - cuz then I AM judging others. But its HARD to be nice when I so sure I am right! lol

I agree with you on marriage......my quote would be "why get married"? I am living with someone--we are fully committed....in fact we are better than either one of my marriages.......one divorce ...second marriage husband died.
We respect each other and trust each other .....we are monogamous and we just love being with each other.....
i can understand the health insurance but everything else can be taken care of in a will......

In another thread someone was saying that gays and lesbians were making a mockery of marriage by being together and not having some sort of ceremony......now they are saying that the gays and lesbians are making a mockery because they are fighting to get married.....I wish the opinion poll would make up their minds.....

At least you are consistant crazybbwgirl

I guess im a little jaded myself.....i own an alterations shop.....i do wedding dresses.......I have been in this area for 15 years......i have done a lot of wedding dresses and now it seems like im doing the dresses for the second weddings......and last week a lady came in and asked if I remembered her......she then told me that I had done two other wedding dresses for her in the past 8 years and this would be her third.......now that is a mockery of marriage.....

 

[SweetErika]

And its all I can do not to shout it from the roof tops - "Don't get married! You're wasting your life! Its a bad deal!" But I TRY not to. I know I've upset many on this board with my little "marriage is for suckers" quote that I use so often. And I've (almost) quit using it - cuz then I AM judging others. But its HARD to be nice when I so sure I am right! lol

Yes, "marriage is for suckers" is a little judgmental, but it still doesn't bother me in the least. This is your opinion based on your experiences and beliefs, and for those of us who are happily married, it's easily discounted as such. That is, I respect your opinion, but I know for a fact marriage is right for me, so the sucker label doesn't apply.
Plus, I think you're a pretty reasonable person, and you recognize that marriage works for some people sometimes.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I personally think many women would find being single very very nice - if they'd just trust themselves enough.

 

[SweetErika]

I personally think many women would find being single very very nice - if they'd just trust themselves enough.

No argument here! I think you're way ahead of the curve on this issue!

 

[Kissophile]

And its all I can do not to shout it from the roof tops - "Don't get married! You're wasting your life! Its a bad deal!" But I TRY not to. I know I've upset many on this board with my little "marriage is for suckers" quote that I use so often. And I've (almost) quit using it - cuz then I AM judging others. But its HARD to be nice when I so sure I am right! lol

Hmmm....marriage is for suckers, eh?

I'm not so sure. I know it's not for swallowers.

YMMV

 

[KinkyKiki]

I personally think many women would find being single very very nice - if they'd just trust themselves enough.

I respect your opinion as well and know for you that you obviously have experiences and reasons that have led you to believe what you do which is perfectly fine for you. I also know for a fact marriage is right for me as well just as someone else said. The only thing I again would caution you about is your use of MOST and MANY because while I'm sure there are women who do or would agree with you I highly doubt it's the majority.

KinkyKiki

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Hmmm....marriage is for suckers, eh?
I'm not so sure. I know it's not for swallowers.
YMMV

hehehe - you're bad!

Ok - I'm off my soapbox for awhile. Thank you one and all for letting me vent for a few.... ahhh - feel that tension release!

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

[

But let me lighten it now it's been argued. Monogamy and true complete love requires surrendering to it. And I feel Polywhatever is the inability to surrender to it. Which can be argued as strength.

Surrendering completely to commitment, unity and Love is a higher state of being. Not monogamy it’s self.

and please don’t get me started on anti-marriage. ack you got me.


Im sorry.....what has monogamy got to do with marriage? and in a pure and complete love, most dont even consider monogamy. pure and true complete love doesnt bind or restrict.

Pure and complete love for me brings me to the point that I am just not interested in other women or man, because my heart lies with another. It definatly does not bind or restrict, but in my case at least it is still monogomy.

That is just me though, and I'd love to hear your views on the subject (both this and antimarriage, I'm promarriage myself but I'm always up to hear another view on any subject). You can't learn if you don't listen, even if you disagree with what your hearing ^_^

-Zergplex

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

Aaron - this was your first post. Right off the bat you're calling people who believe differently than you weak (or week?!?! lol) Sorry - I know you're voicing your opinion - but that's bound to piss someone off. I know this cuz I habitually piss married people off with my flip anti-marriage answers.......

Plus - your rather sporadic use of capitalization makes it very hard to read your posts and made me grumpy too!

You are entitled to your opinions just as everyone is. Every so often the feathers fly - that's what happens quite often when different opinions are shared.

Flip anti-marriage answers? Or do tell it sounds interesting ^_^

Edit: Wrote this before I read your other post

-Zergplex

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

This is exactly how I feel. This thread made me realize that I am not in fact monogamous, even though I'm only involved with one man, and helped me break the association of non-monogamy with cheating. Additionally, hearing everyone's views made me think wholistically about the issue and raised several issues that my husband and I were then able to talk about.

The insults and judgments are uncalled for (we're all adults here, right?), but if I didn't want to discuss and think, I'd go to one of the boards that doesn't require a bunch of mental activity.

Kudos to Zergplex for such thoughtful, non-judgmental posts...I really like how you express your views in relation to you and your life instead of stamping "WRONG" on everyone who's different.

Thanks SweetErika! I try to use my experiances in my explinations to make it easier for others to understand why I feel the way I do. You can't learn anyting unless you listen, and alot of times you can learn the most from those with differing viewpoints.

Those who stamp "wrong" on everyone who's differant has never been the differant one. I was always the odd one throughout my life and one thing I learned was never to put other people down for their differances. Help them if they asked, explain why I feel the way I do but never tell them their choices were wrong.

Eh, sorry for the rant ^_^ you just got me talking... *grin*

-Zergplex

 

[KinkyKiki]

Re: Zergplex Says

Those who stamp "wrong" on everyone who's differant has never been the differant one. I was always the odd one throughout my life and one thing I learned was never to put other people down for their differances. Help them if they asked, explain why I feel the way I do but never tell them their choices were wrong.

well apparently I am one of those people who have used the word "wrong" on here with this subject, but like I've explained it's my personal opinion that it's wrong for me and my life and that MY opinion is that it's wrong for others, but they are free to believe as they choose. Just thought you should know you're quite off on your assumption that anyone believing like that has never been different themselves. My whole life I've been the different or odd one by most everyone so I definitely know how that feels. Just wish you wouldn't categorize ALL who use a certain word or assume you know what that means.

KinkyKiki

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

Because - IMHO - marriage tends to hold women down and raise men up. All that role justification. "I worked longer/harder than you did today....." blah blah blah..... It almost seems like marriage ends up pitting the husband against the wife in so many instances. (Of course I don't mean ALL marriages!) Plus there's the financial aspects. Women are primarily the caregivers of children, work less, therefore earn less - which can be very detrimental later on. It seems like married men end up viewing their wives as 'property' as something 'owned'. And women end up viewing their husbands as a paycheck. I think it discourages women from becoming all they can become. I think many women 'settle' for a husband because somewhere they heard that a man will take care of you....... I could go on and on.....

Most of these seem to me not to be arguements against marriage itself but against the views/stereotypes expected of those who are married at this point in time. Those who view their spouses as anything but cherished loved ones are really missing out on the point. Marriage shouldn't be for material gain, it shouldn't be to have someone to 'take care of you'. Those people (who are a large portion) are missing out on the real reason to get married. Marriage is the commitment of your love for another in a public way, it is a way to show that you are connected to this person in such a way you want no one else. It is an expression of pure love. Notice I only said an expression, for there are many ways to love as mentioned in this thread. Some people find their greatest joy with three people they truly enjoy, some who can find that feeling within themselves without anyone else. None of us are wrong in any way, if the feeling is strong and your emotion true then these are all expressions of true love whether you are dating one, two, or ten people.

I am not trying to dismiss your views on marriage in any way, as I don't doubt that they are backed up by more time and experiance then I have probubly been alive. I know what you said is the sad truth of many marriages, but I don't feel the way to fix these problems is to not get married but instead to change what people expect/view marriage to be.

-Zergplex

 

[Zergplex]

Re: Re: Zergplex Says

well apparently I am one of those people who have used the word "wrong" on here with this subject, but like I've explained it's my personal opinion that it's wrong for me and my life and that MY opinion is that it's wrong for others, but they are free to believe as they choose. Just thought you should know you're quite off on your assumption that anyone believing like that has never been different themselves. My whole life I've been the different or odd one by most everyone so I definitely know how that feels. Just wish you wouldn't categorize ALL who use a certain word or assume you know what that means.

KinkyKiki

You missunderstand Kiki, I am not catagorizing those who use the word wrong but instead those who use that word on everything thats differant without reason or justification. You have reasons and have explained them and such do not fall into this catagory at all, at least to me.

-Zergplex

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

While I respect people who think sex is purely a biological function, I just can't do it. "Sex is emotion in motion" is a quote I've always agreed strongly with. But to each his/her own, eh?

I have to agree Erika, emotion causes pleasure for me rather then the other way around. I can't do sexual things with someone unless I care deeply for them, because without that connection I'm just not attracted to them at all *shrugs*

-Zergplex

 

[sxylegs]

I am for monogamy.....but I really dont understand why marriage is such a big thing....you dont need to be married to have a very loving and committed relationship.....