Moderators on the GB?

[glamorilla]

The quality has diminshed much faster since the general population has seen a lack of excitement in the administrators toward doing anything about serious breaches of the few rules here.

that isnt a bad point and i also understand youve had more than your average share of crap where this place is concerned...which is why you are so concerned. unfortunately for most people it isnt going to be untill someone starts stalking them seriously or tries to hurt them will they begin to change thier perspectives.

do you have any ideas on what can be done to make this place that little bit safer it should be without ruining what we already have?

 

[Calamity Jane]

unfortunately for most people it isnt going to be untill someone starts stalking them seriously or tries to hurt them will they begin to change thier perspectives.

Neither of those things has changed my perspective. Honestly, I see Lit like any other community. When interacting with other human beings, random bad shit is bound to happen. Doesn't mean we need to hire a personal bodyguard, or increase the 'police presence'.

We take a risk posting here. Professionally, personally, whatever. Interacting with such a huge number of people on daily basis is risky. It's up to us to choose whether or not that risk is acceptable, and if it's not, we should seek our fun elsewhere.

 

[Wrong Element]

The GB doesn't need a Mod.

I have PMed Laurel proposing the creation of a new general interest board with a moderator. If anyone else thinks that a good idea then I suggest you do the same.

That would be redundant since there are already two de facto moderated GBs: the How To Cafe and Author's Hangout. (The Playground is theoretically in this group as well, though nothing of general interest ever gets posted there assuming you learned your odd and even numbers when you were 6.)

My own sense is that a moderated board would create more problems than it would solve, though I'm as frustrated as everyone else by recent events in here. The situation with QuickDuck, though--the only way to have prevented that would have been to have a vetting process for registering here that I'm sure no one--certainly not Laurel and Manu--would want to foist on Lit.

 

[Queersetti]

The quality of discourse on the GB has been declining since its inception. Everyone considers their time the best time but I think that has more to do with the community constantly growing than anything else.

I don't agree. In my time here I have seen the quality ebb and flow. It has not been a constant downhill slide, in my opinion. Of late, however things have gotten uglier than I have seen previously.

Since the last bit of nastiness, the Obliterator mess, a lot of people have spoken of their determination to try to turn things around, to improve the atmosphere. To split a new moderated forum off would be counter productive, and only make matters worse.

The new moderated forum would almost certainly be a nightmare of squabbling over rules and quidelines and what constitutes trolling and who decides what's a threat and I hate the moderators.....while the GB is abandoned to the trolls and the last handful of people who really believe in unmoderated discussion.

I understand the desire for more civility and security, but splitting the GB in two would make every problem worse, not better, in my opinion.

 

[Thunderbear]

In theory, I agree with you.

It's sort of like suburbia. You lose out when people start building fences and gates around their communities to keep out the 'undesireables'.

So, rather than a quick and timely 'dealing with' of Hoekus and his attempted board takeover, you'd prefer letting them have free reign of the board and to leave when they get bored? Instead of instantly removing BS's personal information before KS could find it? Rather than matching IPs with Obliterator and whoever the fuckknuckle is hiding behind him, you'd prefer to watch drama unfold as rain's and freya's info is disseminated?

I confess to not understanding. Sometimes the undesirables are worth the fences, to me.

And as an aside, I think a whole lot of you are overly concerned about censorship. Mods on the GB would affect your lives damned little.

-swearing- Fuck, I got sucked into a drama thread.

 

[glamorilla]

So, rather than a quick and timely 'dealing with' of Hoekus and his attempted board takeover, you'd prefer letting them have free reign of the board and to leave when they get bored? Instead of instantly removing BS's personal information before KS could find it? Rather than matching IPs with Obliterator and whoever the fuckknuckle is hiding behind him, you'd prefer to watch drama unfold as rain's and freya's info is disseminated?

I confess to not understanding. Sometimes the undesirables are worth the fences, to me.

And as an aside, I think a whole lot of you are overly concerned about censorship. Mods on the GB would affect your lives damned little.

-swearing- Fuck, I got sucked into a drama thread.

could you please turn around a for a sec?

 

[someplace]

that isnt a bad point and i also understand youve had more than your average share of crap where this place is concerned...which is why you are so concerned. unfortunately for most people it isnt going to be untill someone starts stalking them seriously or tries to hurt them will they begin to change thier perspectives.

do you have any ideas on what can be done to make this place that little bit safer it should be without ruining what we already have?

I'm not speaking from just my own personal experiences glam, but those of very close friends as well. When someone PMs the Moderator and then Laurel that her real name, address and phone number are posted on the board by someone who is harrassing her in real life and under criminal investigation for threatening her children in real life...and that information is left up there all day long, for hours, even after repeated PMs pleading for its removal, there is something VERY WRONG that needs fixing.

I understand that Laurel and Manu are businesspeople who don't have time to babysit the boards. That is supposedly exactly what a Mod is for...to enforce the rules. There aren't that many rules and they're not subjective.

What needs to happen to stem the exodus of people from this site is for people to feel that their personal information is at least cared about by the people running the site. That isn't the case when a complaint of a real and serious violation is ignored. As things stand now, I truly wouldn't be surprised if harrassment begun here on these boards and left unchecked will end up in someone being seriously physically harmed in real life, if it hasn't already.

 

[Queersetti]

So, rather than a quick and timely 'dealing with' of Hoekus and his attempted board takeover, you'd prefer letting them have free reign of the board and to leave when they get bored? Instead of instantly removing BS's personal information before KS could find it? Rather than matching IPs with Obliterator and whoever the fuckknuckle is hiding behind him, you'd prefer to watch drama unfold as rain's and freya's info is disseminated?

I confess to not understanding. Sometimes the undesirables are worth the fences, to me.

And as an aside, I think a whole lot of you are overly concerned about censorship. Mods on the GB would affect your lives damned little.

-swearing- Fuck, I got sucked into a drama thread.

I think you don't understand. How would creating a new board have changed any of the situations you describe?

 

[Never]

Wrong Element:
" That would be redundant since there are already two de facto moderated GBs: the How To Cafe and Author's Hangout. (The Playground is theoretically in this group as well, though nothing of general interest ever gets posted there assuming you learned your odd and even numbers when you were 6.)"

Actually, none of those are for general discussion.

Queersetti:
" Since the last bit of nastiness, the Obliterator mess, a lot of people have spoken of their determination to try to turn things around, to improve the atmosphere. To split a new moderated forum off would be counter productive, and only make matters worse."

I have heard of efforts to 'improve the atmosphere' at least fifty times before. I have yet to see it work.

"…while the GB is abandoned to the trolls and the last handful of people who really believe in unmoderated discussion."

If only a handful of people believe in unmoderated discussion then why force it on the majority of people? Yes, it would be difficult but what's wrong with a nightmare of squabbling? It's worked for at least six years on the GB.

 

[glamorilla]

I'm not speaking from just my own personal experiences glam, but those of very close friends as well. When someone PMs the Moderator and then Laurel that her real name, address and phone number are posted on the board by someone who is harrassing her in real life and under criminal investigation for threatening her children in real life...and that information is left up there all day long, even after repeated PMs, there is something VERY WRONG that needs fixing.

I understand that Laurel and Manu are businesspeople who don't have time to babysit the boards. That is supposedly exactly what a Mod is for...to enforce the rules. There aren't that many rules and they're not subjective.

What needs to happen to stem the exodus of people from this site is for people to feel that their personal information is at least cared about by the people running the site. That isn't the case when a complaint of a real and serious violation is ignored. As things stand now, I truly wouldn't be surprised if harrassment begun here on these boards and left unchecked will end up in someone being seriously physically harmed in real life, if it hasn't already.

that is a scary thought to think posting here could lead you to getting hurt in real life.

was there any kind of excuse why laurel or manu didnt remove the personal information quicker than that? that really doesnt sound like something they..or at least laurel as i dont know manu...would do? i wish there was someway i could fix what happened to your friend.

this really is sad.

 

[Calamity Jane]

So, rather than a quick and timely 'dealing with' of Hoekus and his attempted board takeover, you'd prefer letting them have free reign of the board and to leave when they get bored? Instead of instantly removing BS's personal information before KS could find it? Rather than matching IPs with Obliterator and whoever the fuckknuckle is hiding behind him, you'd prefer to watch drama unfold as rain's and freya's info is disseminated?

I confess to not understanding. Sometimes the undesirables are worth the fences, to me.

And as an aside, I think a whole lot of you are overly concerned about censorship. Mods on the GB would affect your lives damned little.

-swearing- Fuck, I got sucked into a drama thread.

There is a HUGE difference between being 'in favor' of something, and thinking that the proposed solution is impractical and undesireable.

A mod on the GB is unnecessary. Always has been, always will be. I've been here for awhile, and while there are MORE trolls now, they're not necessarily nastier, than the trolls of the past.

I don't want anyone deciding for me, or for anyone else, what can be posted. BS fucked up when he linked his pics through his employers website. That wasn't 'posted personal information' that anyone would have thought to remove. It was a serious fuck up on his part, that someone else chose to use against him. Yes, it sucked. Yes, I find it reprehensible. But it's not the responsibility of Laurel and Manu to be our parents and make sure that we're making good choices in which information we choose to hand over to random people.

If people don't like the idea of an unmoderated forum, then there are plenty of places on Lit that they could post. There are plenty of places all over the internet that they could post.

I handle trolls by putting them on ignore if they bother me enough. I handle them by not handing out more information than I deem good for ME (and my kids and my family). I have deleted entire threads that I later decided were full of more info than I was comfortable sharing.

*shrug* It's not that hard to protect ourselves.

 

[Thunderbear]

I think you don't understand. How would creating a new board have changed any of the situations you describe?

Eh? I didn't imply anything about a new board, I hope. I don't think that's the way to go any more than you do.

I think an air of 'any rules are censorship' exists here, and that mods here in the GB would disrupt things very little.

 

[Never]

glamorilla:
"...was there any kind of excuse why laurel or manu didnt remove the personal information quicker than that? that really doesnt sound like something they..or at least laurel as i dont know manu...would do?"

Because they have a life. They can't and don't sit in front of the computer 24/7. Sometimes they even go on vacations for weeks. As far as I know, Laurel is the only person who mods the GB and there's no way she can devote her life to it.

 

[Queersetti]

Wrong Element:
" That would be redundant since there are already two de facto moderated GBs: the How To Cafe and Author's Hangout. (The Playground is theoretically in this group as well, though nothing of general interest ever gets posted there assuming you learned your odd and even numbers when you were 6.)"

Actually, none of those are for general discussion.

Queersetti:
" Since the last bit of nastiness, the Obliterator mess, a lot of people have spoken of their determination to try to turn things around, to improve the atmosphere. To split a new moderated forum off would be counter productive, and only make matters worse."

I have heard of efforts to 'improve the atmosphere' at least fifty times before. I have yet to see it work.

"…while the GB is abandoned to the trolls and the last handful of people who really believe in unmoderated discussion."

If only a handful of people believe in unmoderated discussion then why force it on the majority of people? Yes, it would be difficult but what's wrong with a nightmare of squabbling? It's worked for at least six years on the GB.

Again, we are seeing the board from very different perspectives. I have seen periods when the quality of the board has been better, and I attribute that to the intent of the posters.

 

[MaggieH]

glamorilla:
"...was there any kind of excuse why laurel or manu didnt remove the personal information quicker than that? that really doesnt sound like something they..or at least laurel as i dont know manu...would do?"

Because they have a life. They can't and don't sit in front of the computer 24/7. Sometimes they even go on vacations for weeks. As far as I know, Laurel is the only person who mods the GB and there's no way she can devote her life to it.

So, then why not have someone who can do that sort of thing? Not to babysit every little person who gets their panties in a wad about something, but to take care of egregious postings of personal information? What would that hurt?

 

[Never]

So, then why not have someone who can do that sort of thing? Not to babysit every little person who gets their panties in a wad about something, but to take care of egregious postings of personal information? What would that hurt?

How do you think the whole draaah crap happened?

 

[Queersetti]

Eh? I didn't imply anything about a new board, I hope. I don't think that's the way to go any more than you do.

I think an air of 'any rules are censorship' exists here, and that mods here in the GB would disrupt things very little.

I addressed the issue of a new forum. Jane's post was in response to me on that issue. Therefore, I assumed your reply to her was in that regard. I apologize if I misread you.

 

[MaggieH]

How do you think the whole draaah crap happened?

I wasn't here for that extravaganza.

 

[Lancecastor]

How do you think the whole draaah crap happened?

Didn't that have something to do with Draaaah, a Moderator, obtaining and brokering personal information about Lit posters, for which "Laurel" fired her?

 

[someplace]

So, then why not have someone who can do that sort of thing? Not to babysit every little person who gets their panties in a wad about something, but to take care of egregious postings of personal information? What would that hurt?

As it happens, the Moderator in question was Alexandraah, who, we found out later through the chat logs with her that Bob posted, had agreed to help the stalker person inflict the most harm on my friend by ignoring the requests for the personal information to be taken down off the boards. Only when my friend threaten legal action against Lit, was the information removed...hours and hours from it's being posted.

 

[Never]

I wasn't here for that extravaganza.

Just what you suggested. Laurel and Manu went away for a few days and extended admin powers to a mod named alexandraaah. Draaah promptly looked up the IP addresses of several board members and their alts, leaked it to someone else, and it eventually reached the board.

I trust Laurel with that level of power but who else could be trusted with it?

 

[Mia62]

I wasn't here for that extravaganza.

What happened was that Laurel was going away and gave someone that she trusted an Extended Moderator status. That person was alexendraaah who abused her powers/Laurel's trust by looking up people's ISPs (or IPs - I can never remember which is which) and handed out all kinds of personal information about people to Bob_Bytchin (who saved/posted their chat logs at a later date) who gave that info to Desiqn/guileful.

A wonderful time was had by all.

 

[MaggieH]

As it happens, the Moderator in question was Alexandraah, who, we found out later through the chat logs with her that Bob posted, had agreed to help the stalker person inflict the most harm on my friend by ignoring the requests for the personal information to be taken down off the boards. Only when my friend threaten legal action against Lit, was the information removed...hours and hours from it's being posted.

So, because one moderator misbehaved, there's no point in having anyone who can help someone in that situation?

 

[Thunderbear]

There is a HUGE difference between being 'in favor' of something, and thinking that the proposed solution is impractical and undesireable.

<snip>

*shrug* It's not that hard to protect ourselves.

I agree. It isn't that hard. But not everyone can discern how well they are protected from malicious people. Keeping any real names and real information in a hotmail account that is one step away (through yahoo, MSN, AIM, etc) with common passwords is distressingly prevalent everywhere on the internet. Protection comes with experience, and not everyone is particularly experienced on this, the interwebnet. :d

 

[Lancecastor]

Moderators have always been the most likely to thumb their ass at Laurel's belief in freedom of speech.