michigan music festival & womyn-only space

[seXieleXie]

so, what do you all think of the michigan womyn's music festival dilemma?

do you see the value of woman-only space? how then do you define "woman" ? what about their new don't-ask-don't-tell policy? is that really a solution?


i'm just curious as to what people here think about the issue.

 

[John Doe]

First of all, it's spelled "woman."

Secondly, I don't see a problem with it, as long as the idea of a "man-only space" is acceptable too.

As far as the definition of a woman: If someone is dressed as a woman and they are attempting to gain access to a "woman-only" area, it's safe to conclude that they would prefer to be considered a woman. Of course some security wouldn't hurt, in case anyone tries to take advantage of that and cause trouble.

 

[seXieleXie]

First of all, it's spelled "woman."

for the love of GOD... that's how the event name was spelled
i will refrain from use of the rolleyes as it as gotten out of hand, but i assure you, i am rolling my eyes at you.

Secondly, I don't see a problem with it, as long as the idea of a "man-only space" is acceptable too.

well, is it? i mean, i'm sure that most of the women at the festival are against the augusta national and other male dominated institutions.

As far as the definition of a woman: If someone is dressed as a woman and they are attempting to gain access to a "woman-only" area, it's safe to conclude that they would prefer to be considered a woman. Of course some security wouldn't hurt, in case anyone tries to take advantage of that and cause trouble.

what about f-t-m transpeople? what about people who don't necesarily feel that they fit into a single-gender paradigm?

 

[MarkDelta]

I think they have the right to free assembly, as long as no one gets hurt, but I also have the right.

I suppose along with the right of free assembly that means they get to choose with whom they assemble.

Gee, I imagine that all those Nazis that don't want minorities in their midst also have right of free assembly. I just don't want to be anywhere near it (unless I am also given an unlimited supply of rotten eggs, but thats another story).

I guess I don't see who it hurts.

If the transgender comunity is disturbed by it and want to protest, don't they have that right?

It is very instructive to see just who these people consider "womyn" though.

Are these people that you'd want to associate yourself with in the first place?

 

[John Doe]

for the love of GOD... that's how the event name was spelled
i will refrain from use of the rolleyes as it as gotten out of hand, but i assure you, i am rolling my eyes at you.

Don't care, they still spelled incorrectly.

well, is it? i mean, i'm sure that most of the women at the festival are against the augusta national and other male dominated institutions.

I don't know if it's acceptable or not. I've never been to Michigan, let alone the festival in question. You tell me.

Male-dominated institutions/events do exist, but that doesn't justify the same exclusionary practices by women. I object to any gender based conditions on admission to events and establishments, regardless of which gender is being excluded.

what about f-t-m transpeople? what about people who don't necesarily feel that they fit into a single-gender paradigm?

If FTM transexuals think of themselves and prefer to be treated as male, then they should be treated as male. As has been pointed out quite often on the GLBT board, gender isn't based solely on your genitals.

If someone does not feel they fit into a single-gender paradigm, then logically they would not be interested in gaining entrance to a gender-specific section of an event, as it would appear to assign to them (or give them the appearance of) a single gender.

 

[Netzach]

I think the only way things are going to change for FTM folks is when lesbian woman only spaces kind of give them a kick in the pants to fly free and be guys.

I know this sounds really callous....

but I'll happily accept an MTF person as a woman or wymyn or whatever. Once you have a name like "Gerald" it's time to go be a straight guy or a fag, or bi, but to be a guy.

No, gay men are not very welcoming to transdudes currently. MTF women have had to do a LOT of work to get lesbians/bi women to accept them as such in the last 20 years, it's the only way to effect any significant change, and it never would have happened had they always felt happy comfy and welcome in gay mens' spaces, de facto or official.

 

[madmanmike]

wtf??? spell it right

well, is it? i mean, i'm sure that most of the women at the festival are against the augusta national and other male dominated institutions.

why do they care? do they even know that the word golf is an acronym that stands for Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden.? for god sakes its just a game. if guys want to have their own fun on a privately owned peice of land to be guys and talk about tits and beer without having to worry about sexual harrasment then so be it. i encourage it. you dont see guys busting down the doors to be in the WNBA. you know why? they dont give a shit. you also dont see women complain because they arnt allowed to be linebackers in football. im all for equal rights but damn why cant these gentlemen have a private club? i dont see anything wrong with it sexually speaking. besides how much fun could old guys drinking congac and farting be?

and as far as spelling it "womyn" goes do feminists really think it changes anything. it makes them look more ignorant. if i decided to spell men as "min" instread and made posters all over town they would put me down for treatment. i think its rediculous.