Israel/Hamas PB Tribal Fight

[ll74]

I'll add - I don't believe achievement of goals set by Israel can be accomplished on the battlefield. I think the best course of action would be for Israel to occupy Gaza for a time while actively pursuing normalization with Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations to get their buy-in and pressure on Hamas to surrender (and on Iran as well to back off)

Not an easy road.

I also continue to support complete leadership change for Israel and Palestinians and pursuit of a two state solution.

 

[icanhelp1]

Irrelevant. Their responsibility is to prevent civilian deaths as much as possible. Their responsibility is to not interfere with aid to civilians.

The one way to win a war is to interrupt supply lines. If Hamas is confiscating humanitarian supplies then those supplies become fair game. Where’s Egypt, Jordan and other surrounding nations taking part in protecting and aiding in the distribution of humanitarian aid. When half measures are used nothing good could come from it. It just extends the the conflict indefinitely and more people will die. No one wants senseless violence and death, that horse is out of the barn.

 

[ll74]

The one way to win a war is to interrupt supply lines. If Hamas is confiscating humanitarian supplies then those supplies become fair game. Where’s Egypt, Jordan and other surrounding nations taking part in protecting and aiding in the distribution of humanitarian aid. When half measures are used nothing good could come from it. It just extends the the conflict indefinitely and more people will die. No one wants senseless violence and death, that horse is out of the barn.

Yes, you want Israel to ignore the Geneva convention completely. That is demonstrated

 

[icanhelp1]

Irrelevant. Their responsibility is to prevent civilian deaths as much as possible. Their responsibility is to not interfere with aid to civilians.

It’s relevant in that US soldiers taking fire from behind civilians were forced to kill any civilians in their path in an attempt to take out enemy combatants. Sometimes it’s impossible to avoid collateral damage and the killing of innocence. It becomes kill or be killed.

 

[ll74]

It’s relevant in that US soldiers taking fire from behind civilians were forced to kill any civilians in their path in an attempt to take out enemy combatants. Sometimes it’s impossible to avoid collateral damage and the killing of innocence. It becomes kill or be killed.

So are you ready to admit that you just want to ignore the Geneva convention completely without all the excuses?

 

[contrifan32]

So are you ready to admit that you just want to ignore the Geneva convention completely without all the excuses?

Does the Geneva Convention apply to Terrorist organizations?

 

[snailspace]

Did hamas sign GC

 

[icanhelp1]

So are you ready to admit that you just want to ignore the Geneva convention completely without all the excuses?

I never said that. Hamas has never stopped shooting. Israelis are targeting, as best they can, wherever direct and indirect fires are coming from. From what I understand it to be when Hamas sets a up a mortar team they hold their own people hostage in hopes that the Israelis will absorb the hits and take the casualties without return fire. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. ISR will try to minimize unnecessary casualties and target just enemy positions but sometimes the threat is imminent and a strike is self defense. From what I've read, if a threat is inert and civilians are in the area they don't return fire for the sake of avoiding senseless killing. Hamas purposely attacks civilian targets. How do you fight that without civilian casualties?

 

[icanhelp1]

Does the Geneva Convention apply to Terrorist organizations?

The world court doesn't see it that way.

 

[RoryN]

Does the Geneva Convention apply to Terrorist organizations?

Wrong topic. QAnon is in another thread.

 

[ll74]

I never said that. Hamas has never stopped shooting. Israelis are targeting, as best they can, wherever direct and indirect fires are coming from. From what I understand it to be when Hamas sets a up a mortar team they hold their own people hostage in hopes that the Israelis will absorb the hits and take the casualties without return fire. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. ISR will try to minimize unnecessary casualties and target just enemy positions but sometimes the threat is imminent and a strike is self defense. From what I've read, if a threat is inert and civilians are in the area they don't return fire for the sake of avoiding senseless killing. Hamas purposely attacks civilian targets. How do you fight that without civilian casualties?

So you agree with me that Israel should do whatever it can to reduce or eliminate civilian casualties.

Got it!

I think you misunderstand words quite a bit.

I've repeatedly called for all parties to avoid civilian deaths. I've never said that it's always an option to completely eliminate any civilian deaths.

I've repeatedly called for parties to allow aid to civilians (which is a requirement, by US law, for those that we provide funding for) unfettered and unobstructed. I've never said that some care can't be taken to make sure aid does not include combatant support.

I do absolutely take issue with people who say that there are no Palestinian civilians or that Israel is purposely targeting civilians. Both positions seek to delegtamize one faction or the other. I also question that the Israeli goals are achievable and continue to call for more pressure on Arab countries to push Hamas to surrender and or capitulate to Israel and turn over Hostages without condition. As mentioned, I call for new leadership for both factions and the pursuit of a two state solution to move forward for stability in the region.

 

[ll74]

Does the Geneva Convention apply to Terrorist organizations?

Technically, it does not apply to non signers. This is why more political pressure is being applied to Israel, a signatory.

Hamas should absolutely be pressured to adhere regardless of their status. It harms Israel politically to ignore the agreement in any way.

 

[ll74]

Did hamas sign GC

Guy who doesn't believe Palestinian civilians exist says what?

 

[contrifan32]

Wrong topic. QAnon is in another thread.

Hush puppy... grownups are talking

 

[RoryN]

Hush puppy... grownups are talking

I see the nursing home gave you your computer privileges back.

That's important - especially when no one ever visits you.

 

[ll74]

Did hamas sign GC

Adding - had the UN recognized Palestine in the UN, the ability of members to pressure Hamas to adhere would increase considerably.

 

[icanhelp1]

So you agree with me that Israel should do whatever it can to reduce or eliminate civilian casualties.

Civilian casualties is a nebulous term. Some civilians are radicalized and take to being a human shield as a religious right. The mission for them is in concert with Hamas.

Got it!

I think you misunderstand words quite a bit.

You misunderstand what I'm trying to explain. You interject the GC, Hamas doesn't give a crap about the Geneva convention, they're terrorist. I believe the World Court is skewed in favor of Hamas, the deck is stacked against Israel, even media reporting is skewed against Israel.

I've repeatedly called for all parties to avoid civilian deaths. I've never said that it's always an option to completely eliminate any civilian deaths.

Only one party cares, so what's your resolution? People are quick to criticize without a resolution.

I've repeatedly called for parties to allow aid to civilians (which is a requirement, by US law, for those that we provide funding for) unfettered and unobstructed. I've never said that some care can't be taken to make sure aid does not include combatant support.

I've called for Hamas to surrender, but since that won't happen the conflict continues and people die. I believe Hamas confiscating supplies is covered up by media.

I do absolutely take issue with people who say that there are no Palestinian civilians or that Israel is purposely targeting civilians. Both positions seek to delegtamize one faction or the other. I also question that the Israeli goals are achievable and continue to call for more pressure on Arab countries to push Hamas to surrender and or capitulate to Israel and turn over Hostages without condition. As mentioned, I call for new leadership for both factions and the pursuit of a two state solution to move forward for stability in the region.

People are ignorant of history. Israel is surrounded by numerous existential threats to include a hostile media and a world court that is skewed towards the Palestinian plight and behave like Hamas sympathizers.

 

[ll74]

Civilian casualties is a nebulous term. Some civilians are radicalized and take to being a human shield as a religious right. The mission for them is in concert with Hamas.

It is not nebulous. Either they are a combatant or they are a civilian.

You misunderstand what I'm trying to explain. You interject the GC, Hamas doesn't give a crap about the Geneva convention, they're terrorist. I believe the World Court is skewed in favor of Hamas, the deck is stacked against Israel, even media reporting is skewed against Israel.

The Geneva convention isn't optional. It's not easy and as Israel is on the offensive and is the current primary aggressor while Hamas is violating many rules, that obviously makes it extremely difficult. That blatant blocking of aid is specifically one focus of mine in terms of violations, but I continue to support pressure on both parties to adhere to the convention.

Only one party cares, so what's your resolution? People are quick to criticize without a resolution.

Adherence to the Geneva convention by all regardless of opponent action.

I've called for Hamas to surrender, but since that won't happen the conflict continues and people die. I believe Hamas confiscating supplies is covered up by media.

The IDF has the most attention because of its position....that's a political thing...not easy.

Pressuring other countries to apply pressure to Hamas is the best path forward. Past pressure has resulted in many hostages released.

People are ignorant of history. Israel is surrounded by numerous existential threats to include a hostile media and a world court that is skewed towards the Palestinian plight and behave like Hamas sympathizers.

Agreed. The adults in the room typically are held to a higher standard. Conflation of Hamas with all Palestinians is also a major issue.

I support a two state solution, solidified and enforced by world governments.

 

[snailspace]

Give em.what they want

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788347472592691292

This makes them enemy combatants

 

[ll74]

This makes them enemy combatants

Yes
...Hamas is an enemy combatant

 

[RobDownSouth]

Israel has a documented history in this ethnic cleansing campaign of theirs of demanding civilians move to a designated area, and then bombing the designated area.

Israel is a country completely consumed by blood lust, devoid of honor and moral principles.

 

[snailspace]

Israel has a documented history in this ethnic cleansing campaign of theirs of demanding civilians move to a designated area, and then bombing the designated area.

Israel is a country completely consumed by blood lust, devoid of honor and moral principles.

Good

 

[Rightguide]

No, I don't.

I've said multiple times. All civilians must be protected. All armies must avoid civilian targets beyond anything else.

Then civilians shouldn't be armed as soldiers and dressed like civilians, nor should they be taking refuge in civilian spaces.

 

[ll74]

Then civilians shouldn't be armed as soldiers and dressed like civilians, nor should they be taking refuge in civilian spaces.

That is irrelevant. The effort needs to be made.

 

[snailspace]

That is irrelevant. The effort needs to be made.

how