Is it harder to write DEI-focused stories at the moment?

[Bramblethorn]

The other point that I want to mention that was made was the cultural context. I've found a very, very, very, very consistent theme which is that these ideas vibrate differently in the minds of someone from the US vs UK vs Europe vs Australia vs etc. To use an obvious example, there's a TON of context that comes in the mind of a US based reader when the scene is between a black person and a white person. That context is almost certainly different in a culture that hasn't been violently grappling with black-white race relations for more than its entire history.

It's different even in another culture that has been violently grappling with black-white race relations for more than its entire history.

 

[Bramblethorn]

You raise good points.

For most readers though, (and probably the authors when reading comments), it’s like athletes…no one goes to games to see political displays like taking a knee during an anthem.

Anthems are political displays. That's the point of them. When people who've been sitting through loud political displays at sporting events for years without a peep of complaint suddenly get triggered by athletes silently taking a knee, it's not actually "political displays" that they're offended by.

 

[lovecraft68]

You raise good points.

For most readers though, (and probably the authors when reading comments), it’s like athletes…no one goes to games to see political displays like taking a knee during an anthem. We go to watch the sporting events. No one wants to pay obscene amounts for ticket prices to be held hostage to your inappropriate displays of personal politics. You’re going to lose your audience if that’s your focus.

I was thinking about that recently with all the Springsteen preaching. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to your point, people are paying to hear your music and maybe tell a story or interact with the crowd in a fun way. People go to things like that to get away from the real world, not be reminded of it.

Worse is the new trend of college graduations where its the biggest day of these young people's lives to date and they worked hard to be there and their family is there and proud of them and....someone starts spewing politics.

Enough already, don't they realize that's not how you get people on your side, its how you push them away?

I have an e-book called Election Pole (clever, right? heh) and its a hotwife story. Tempted to put it here, but even though I never use the name of a party or politician or get all that political other than the husband is running for an office and is getting blackmailed by a reporter who knows he's had affairs-its a bit of a noir style piece- but I just don't feel like it would pass here. The site would see the title and assume its going to push one side or another.

I'll live.

 

[HordHolm]

I was thinking about that recently with all the Springsteen preaching. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to your point, people are paying to hear your music and maybe tell a story or interact with the crowd in a fun way. People go to things like that to get away from the real world, not be reminded of it.

Hmm, well, maybe, but Springsteen's whole ouevre has been political in nature, if not Political. You'd have to expect it from him. Would you expect Dylan not to make some points, for example? People complaining about Springsteen being political are surely missing the point, no?

 

[CliimaxForYou]

I was thinking about that recently with all the Springsteen preaching. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to your point, people are paying to hear your music and maybe tell a story or interact with the crowd in a fun way. People go to things like that to get away from the real world, not be reminded of it.

Worse is the new trend of college graduations where its the biggest day of these young people's lives to date and they worked hard to be there and their family is there and proud of them and....someone starts spewing politics.

Enough already, don't they realize that's not how you get people on your side, its how you push them away?

I have an e-book called Election Pole (clever, right? heh) and its a hotwife story. Tempted to put it here, but even though I never use the name of a party or politician or get all that political other than the husband is running for an office and is getting blackmailed by a reporter who knows he's had affairs-its a bit of a noir style piece- but I just don't feel like it would pass here. The site would see the title and assume its going to push one side or another.

I'll live.

Agreed.

Live and let live. I don’t care about any particular persons politics, live life, religion, racism, etc. but I also don’t want to be held hostage at sporting events, in stories, or by them
Going door to door forcing me to listen to their beliefs while they force it into my face. No reason at all for the grandstanding or pushing your beliefs onto someone else when they are not interested and haven’t asked

This is true of the readers here, and true of most of the authors reading comments from the readers.

 

[lovecraft68]

Interesting you say that. I'm also a Brit in mainland Europe, but the influx of Eastern Europeans (including Russians) fleeing Putin have brought some very reactionary attitudes with them. Many of their kids attend my child's school, where some of them objected to a book on the curriculum because - I kid you not - the author was black! (Weirdly, all the main characters on it were white, and race didn't enter in the story at all - I read it to see what the fuss was about.) Then they got up in arms about the cross-dressing in Shakespeare! Luckily, the school is sticking to their guns so far.

So, yeah, don't get too complacent!

If I give a full response to this, it'll end up removed or the thread booted to the PB.

I'll leave it at your post and what you choose as an example says it all. There's a far bigger issue in the UK than Russians, they're just on the DEI list of acceptable to pick on.

 

[Actingup]

Really? Was there a need for the ad hominems? That tells me more about you than it does about the OP.

It seems to be a troll account (https://www.literotica.com/authors/CliimaxForYou) - best ignored.

 

[Actingup]

The term, DEI has become hyper-politicized and I think if you reference it in your erotic stories, it'll pull your readers right out of them.

Also, down the road, it'll make those stories look dated.

No, haven't done that. Although I do wonder whether we should care whether the stories get dated, since old stories seem to rarely get read (which is fine) unless they are Penguin Classics.

 

[TheRedLantern]

There may be a generational component to the comments that were referenced at the beginning of this thread.

I'm a newer writer, and when i was getting more serious about learning how to write well, lots of the people around me were younger ... high school & college age.

THEY were hyper focused on racial issues, and I didn't detect a lot of agreement with the viewpoint that diversity and racial justice were small issues in reality but overblown online. EDIT: I'm not endorsing any viewpoint here, just reporting what I saw.

Perhaps that was a fad that will go out of style, but at the same time it probably wouldn't hurt to get an understanding of what the next generation of readers wants to talk about and how they want to talk about it. If for no other reason, it might be worth doing just to stop those comments, which seem to be missing the fun, sexy forest for the ideological trees.

Maybe I'm wrong, in which case I'm going to have a difficult career writing this stuff. Or a great one, depending on how well my vision aligns with the sensibilities of future generations.

 

[lovecraft68]

Sort of on topic when I upgraded to the newest version of word a couple years ago, I noticed words being lined in red that made no sense because there was no spelling or grammer issues. I found out that there was new feature that looked for PC issues-I think they call it geopolitical preferences now-and it was telling me I couldn't use words like Coed, Blonde with an E because it denoted female, housewife, a variety of flat out woke nonsense.

I disabled that right away and laughed off someone telling me for my horror series I needed a sensitivity editor to point out what could be offensive.

Seriously, this is not 'political preferences" its censorship and reverse bigotry because you're some kind of asshole if you have the audacity to write like its any time frame other than the last few years flat out insanity.

Don't like what I write, you can suck it up, buttercup, or you can move along. I'm from the fuck your feelings generation, and I've seen more than a few signs that we might be making a comeback because people are done with this walking on eggshells crap to appease the professionally offended,

 

[Bramblethorn]

Hmm, well, maybe, but Springsteen's whole ouevre has been political in nature, if not Political.

There's a reason one of Rage Against The Machine's singles was a Springsteen cover.

You'd have to expect it from him. Would you expect Dylan not to make some points, for example? People complaining about Springsteen being political are surely missing the point, no?

Especially when it comes from people who didn't make a peep about certain politicians using "Born in the USA" as a campaign song without Springsteen's permission.

 

[Actingup]

Sort of on topic when I upgraded to the newest version of word a couple years ago, I noticed words being lined in red that made no sense because there was no spelling or grammer issues. I found out that there was new feature that looked for PC issues-I think they call it geopolitical preferences now-and it was telling me I couldn't use words like Coed, Blonde with an E because it denoted female, housewife, a variety of flat out woke nonsense.

I disabled that right away and laughed off someone telling me for my horror series I needed a sensitivity editor to point out what could be offensive.

Seriously, this is not 'political preferences" its censorship and reverse bigotry because you're some kind of asshole if you have the audacity to write like its any time frame other than the last few years flat out insanity.

Don't like what I write, you can suck it up, buttercup, or you can move along. I'm from the fuck your feelings generation, and I've seen more than a few signs that we might be making a comeback because people are done with this walking on eggshells crap to appease the professionally offended,

So do you get comments telling you to show more sensitivity? I’m guessing not, and that you’re writing for a different sort of audience than @TheRedLantern’s audience.

 

[Actingup]

Especially when it comes from people who didn't make a peep about certain politicians using "Born in the USA" as a campaign song without Springsteen's permission.

I’m sure there’s a ‘politicians who use songs without reading the fucking lyrics properly’ thread somewhere too

 

[Writer61]

Many of my stories involve characters of different ethnicity; does that make them DEI or I/R? Perhaps the latter, if you must consider that (I hate the concept), but to me, to qualify as DEI requires some explicitly political message. My stories do not,

Thus, given my attitude, I have not changed my writing in the current environment,

 

[MelissaBaby]

There isn't a story on this site that does not, to some degree, touch on an issue of power dynamics, even if it's just on the level of who's on top. Most politics is invisible.

If you do want to put a focus on controversial matters or political issues in your story, focus on that guideline that you've heard over and over again: Show, don't tell. Don't preach about homelessness, create a sympathetic homeless character. If you need to make an explicit political point, make it in the voice of a character, not your own.

I wrote a scene in Mary and Alvin, in which Alvin is at the bar, talking to his high school girlfriend, about a memorial video that was shown at their twentieth reunion, honoring their fallen classmates. Part of the conversation:

"Joe Staples got the white lung, working over to the Bucksport mill," Alvin added, "passed last year."

"He was on there. And Jeannie Moody. Didn't you go out with her sister?"

"Ayuh. Ned Chamberlain."

"I liked Ned."

"I did too, he was a good sort." Alvin said, then after a moment's silence added, "Fuck George Bush."

In that passage, I made two "political" points. One about health care in America, and the other about the wars of the Bush administration. I din't "beat anyone over the head" or "shove my views down anyone's throat." I didn't even make explicit that they were my views, as they were expressed by the characters. There were no complaints.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Honestly, I doubt all that many people truly care.

To the extent that Lit is a representative sample of most of the US (maybe, maybe not; no way to know), there's a very reasonable chance that politics in general and DEI in particular is not of great concern to your readers. Despite stories in the press, daily life in most of America is NOT dominated by constant angst over these issues, and many (if not most) tend to keep their opinions to themselves.

By and large, workplaces are not fearfully plagued by toxic discussions about DEI training. Schools are not cesspools of gender-affirmation against parental wishes. And HR departments are not hyper-sensitive about hair-trigger complaints. Some workplaces, regions, and environments will be worse than others, but my point is that a great many people here simply won't give a shit if their smut contains these themes.

In my own writing, I often treat the current US confusion about these issues in a mildly satirical way. Just yesterday, I wrote a passage in my WiP about a workplace with a memo that had gone around, telling employees to use "unhoused" instead of "homeless." The narrator gives it little attention, but follows it because he's not a boat-rocker; he mentions that a colleague of his ignores it. Then the narrative moves on. I put that in there not because I care about those terms, but because I was trying to make a point about how employees there thought of their workplace and its directives. The goal was not to virtue-signal to my readers; the goal was to deepen their understanding of those two characters.

Wonderful point.
The vast majority of Americans don't care all that much about politics. Their lives aren't all that concerned about DEI or DOGE or any of the rest of it.
As a somewhat recent college graduate I can say that while there were protesters and activists on our campus that got media attention they were probably 1% of the student body. The rest of us just wanted to get to class and pass finals.
The media would certainly have you believe that the whole campus was mobilized for a given cause but that's never the way it really works.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If you write strokers, no one cares, unless it's an interracial story you might get a few uppities who push back.

If you write plot, be careful. If all of your characters are white and straight, likely no one will notice, but you might get a few readers who complain that you are not inclusive. If you write visible minorities or gender fluids, someone will almost certainly bitch that you didn't write the minority correctly or you didn't give them the right role.

If people are going to whine, there is nothing that you can do to placate them, so just write.

 

[HordHolm]

Wonderful point.
The vast majority of Americans don't care all that much about politics. Their lives aren't all that concerned about DEI or DOGE or any of the rest of it.
As a somewhat recent college graduate I can say that while there were protesters and activists on our campus that got media attention they were probably 1% of the student body. The rest of us just wanted to get to class and pass finals.
The media would certainly have you believe that the whole campus was mobilized for a given cause but that's never the way it really works.

I've no desire to invalidate your point, but I would add that this site has a global reach. There are many non-US readers and authors, and they are not going to be a) overly interested in the nitty-gritty of arguments within the 50 states and, b) particularly happy if internal issues spill over into their enjoyment (or not).

 

[TheRedLantern]

So do you get comments telling you to show more sensitivity? I’m guessing not, and that you’re writing for a different sort of audience than @TheRedLantern’s audience.

If our audiences are different, they're probably hooking up behind closed doors.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I've no desire to invalidate your point, but I would add that this site has a global reach. There are many non-US readers and authors, and they are not going to be a) overly interested in the nitty-gritty of arguments within the 50 states and, b) particularly happy if internal issues spill over into their enjoyment (or not).

OP was talking about the political climate in the US, so I stuck to that.
However you add another good point, the rest of the world cares little about the internal politics of other countries which is all the more reason to leave that stuff out.

 

[THBGato]

Enough already, don't they realize that's not how you get people on your side, its how you push them away?

You're clearly not one to listen to your own advice!

There's a far bigger issue in the UK than Russians, they're just on the DEI list of acceptable to pick on.

You didn't read my post. I'm not in the UK. My point was I fled Brexit Britain to live in a liberal country. Lots of people from illiberal countries are moving here to escape from (the threat of) right-wing regimes.... then when they get here they start complaining about it being liberal. I mean, "Hello? Why did you chose to move here exactly?"

The funniest is there have been a few Canadian families moving here complaining that Canada is too woke. One of the Dads tried to recruit me and my response was "Did you do ANY research on this country's politics before you moved here? They legalised gay marriage here before Canada did. What did you expect attitudes to LGBTQ to be? Oh, by the way, have you met my wife?"

 

[THBGato]

If you write plot, be careful. If all of your characters are white and straight, likely no one will notice, but you might get a few readers who complain that you are not inclusive. If you write visible minorities or gender fluids, someone will almost certainly bitch that you didn't write the minority correctly or you didn't give them the right role.

I've written characters that are:
- Non-binary of North African origin
- Black British
- Ugandan
- Spanish gitana
- Mixed-race (White/East African Indian)
- Neuro-divergent

I've had one complaint that I hadn't made it clear a character was black (I think that was more a complaint about my writing, rather than because the reader was offended) and another that I was "diluting" the lesbian section by including a non-binary character. Otherwise, there haven't been any grumbles. Might help that I write in Lesbian, which one assumes self-selects for bigots to an extent.

 

[TheLobster]

However you add another good point, the rest of the world cares little about the internal politics of other countries which is all the more reason to leave that stuff out.

When it comes to wokery in particular, the argument that it's a US-specific issue kind of falls flat. This has long since been an Anglosphere-wide phenomenon, whose excesses are sometimes more pronounced in other English-speaking countries. (Just look at Airstrip One the UK, where you can get jailed for almost three years for a mean tweet that contains a thoughtcrime).

I mean, "Hello? Why did you chose to move here exactly?"

Tulips, bicycles, and legal weed, probably.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

no spelling or grammer issues

!!!!

 

[PennyThompson]

So my question is.. are authors (and particularly US authors) feeling any implicit extra pressure to avoid DEI themes at the moment, because of DEI being a hot topic in the USA at the moment and the site being hosted there?

I get the occasional whiny comment about pronouns and whatever, but nothing too serious. I see a lot more transphobia and sexism on the Author Hangout forum than I ever get in the comments section

I'm of the opinion that portraying characters -- with a variety of identities and backgrounds -- having sexy adventures and finding love and joy and happiness is a political act in our current environment, so maybe that makes my work political?

I'll also mention that there are hundreds of erotica writers and thousands of readers and fans who interact in communities outside of Lit's forums, mostly on Bluesky right now, like a whole Dark Matter universe that exists in parallel and rarely interacts with this space in an observable way. And they make the continual cyclical conversations here about Loving Wives and whatever seem absolutely quaint