Iran

[jomar]

Try 550 BC

Funnier and more accurate.

 

[butters]

so no one entertaining the theory of russia trading off iran for keeping assad?

 

[phrodeau]

Points and laughs.

You're so ignorant.

Iran’s leaders have repeatedly said that they have no interest or desire to possess any WMD’s, and have signed a number of non-proliferation treaties, to which they have abided.

 

[Que]

You're so ignorant.

Iran’s leaders have repeatedly said that they have no interest or desire to possess any WMD’s, and have signed a number of non-proliferation treaties, to which they have abided.

Did they pinkie swear?

 

[Que]

so no one entertaining the theory of russia trading off iran for keeping assad?

That is an interesting realpolitik angle. I had not heard or considered that, but it is an interesting idea.

 

[Luk]

The warmongers who got us into Iraq are the same ones wanting a war with Iran.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You're so ignorant.

Iran’s leaders have repeatedly said that they have no interest or desire to possess any WMD’s, and have signed a number of non-proliferation treaties, to which they have abided.

You can't trust them, though. All they have to do is say "It is Allah's will," and they will do anything they want.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Don't we kind of owe them a pass on them shooting down an unmanned aircraft since we did shoot down a passenger liner with civilians?

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.

wiki

 

[Que]

Typical wiki.

Not at all how I recall that incident.

I will go read.


So I read:

https://m.warhistoryonline.com/history/iran-flight-655-shot-uss-vincennes.html

This account seems pretty even-handed and matches the facts above, although the tenor is different and the context of why they were in thisebwaters and why they thought what they thought was missing. The US ship clearly made mistakes that I would say rises to the level of negligence. The US must have thought that too, because they paid out.

I don't really have a sense of how long this entire incident took but the flight was a 28 minute flight to Dubai so it would have been a fairly flat trajectory.

Definitely does not match what I remember so what I obviously remember would be early reports which on the one hand or probably somewhat us propaganda but also did not have the benefit of the full investigation that found that several of the things that were reported initially were simply just not true. For example the plane was definitely a sending not descending. Secondly that plane was definitely not squatting military codes.

Thanks for pointing that out lincoln...

it's always good to dispel oneself of inaccurate understanding of world events. I think there's probably lots of events that are misunderstood by one side the other or everyone.

 

[Que]

The warmongers who got us into Iraq are the same ones wanting a war with Iran.

But TOTALLY different warmongers than the warmongers that went to war with Libya and Syria.

 

[Luk]

But TOTALLY different warmongers than the warmongers that went to war with Libya and Syria.

What about whataboutism, Tweak? That's your favorite go-to but you have abandoned it for party. Sad!

 

[Que]

What about whataboutism, Tweak? That's your favorite go-to but you have abandoned it for party. Sad!

Would you say that's better or worse than your what about the Iraq War?

You should stick to random made up insults you suck at actually understanding anything pertaining to world events.

 

[Luk]

Would you say that's better or worse than your what about the Iraq War?

You should stick to random made up insults you suck at actually understanding anything pertaining to world events.

Tweak, it's the same group of warmongers who are after Iran now after they blew up Iraq. How the fuck is that not on point with the current discussion? You keep getting kicked in the teeth whenever you nip at my heels.

You should stick to simpler marks like toejam and busybody. Luk is way too smart and witty for you.

 

[Que]

You be illeisming, yo?

 

[Rightguide]

You're so ignorant.

Iran’s leaders have repeatedly said that they have no interest or desire to possess any WMD’s, and have signed a number of non-proliferation treaties, to which they have abided.

They say that because they know there's naive fools like you who will believe it and repeat it as gospel.

 

[phrodeau]

Did they pinkie swear?

You can't trust them, though. All they have to do is say "It is Allah's will," and they will do anything they want.

They say that because they know there's naive fools like you who will believe it and repeat it as gospel.

Their actions have confirmed their words.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Typical wiki.

Not at all how I recall that incident.

I will go read.


So I read:

https://m.warhistoryonline.com/history/iran-flight-655-shot-uss-vincennes.html

This account seems pretty even-handed and matches the facts above, although the tenor is different and the context of why they were in thisebwaters and why they thought what they thought was missing. The US ship clearly made mistakes that I would say rises to the level of negligence. The US must have thought that too, because they paid out.

I don't really have a sense of how long this entire incident took but the flight was a 28 minute flight to Dubai so it would have been a fairly flat trajectory.

Definitely does not match what I remember so what I obviously remember would be early reports which on the one hand or probably somewhat us propaganda but also did not have the benefit of the full investigation that found that several of the things that were reported initially were simply just not true. For example the plane was definitely a sending not descending. Secondly that plane was definitely not squatting military codes.

Thanks for pointing that out lincoln...

it's always good to dispel oneself of inaccurate understanding of world events. I think there's probably lots of events that are misunderstood by one side the other or everyone.

So, what factual information do you offer in rebuttal?

 

[Shelly2inme]

Send more money

Maybe world peace could be attained by sending every terrorist country 1.7 billion dollars in cash. They would all be happy and we could sing cheerful songs together and dance in a circle.

 

[Que]

So, what factual information do you offer in rebuttal?

To clarify, the wiki account is factually accurate. My recollection was not.

The wiki account does not capture the reasons that the US ship quite understandably (if even moreso tragically) misidentified the target as an Iranian F14 on an attack run. It was on a direct path straight from a dual-use military/civilian airfield that had, the week before launched F14s in response to US ships, the airliner took off a half-hour late for it's usually scheduled departure time so it was in a window if time no civilian airliner was expected, and it just happened to launch on a direct intercept route at exactly the time a military response from that airfield would have, if the Irabians were coordinating with the boats attacking and whoever had shot at the helicopter.

No such coordinated attack was underway, but all of the above combined to make a person expecting an attack, see what they expected to see.

It has to do with our conditioned blindspot. They expected an attack and so, despite having three indicators that this was not an attack all three indicators were not only ignored, all onboard "saw" what they expected to see, not what they actually saw.

The plane was ascending, and their equipment told them that. They all believed the opposite. The modes and codes were civilian, they swore it was military.

This was not just after-the-fact CYA as people in these situations often do ti get their stories to agree. Contemporaneous communications showed they were misreading what they "saw."

If not for the equipment keeping a log of what actually happened, all of the transmissions and voice recordings would have agreed that the Iranians had spoofed an f14 and baited the Americans into the shootdown. That is what they thought when they realized the horror of what they had done. That was what I still believed (wrongly) until your post caused me to do some extensive reading on this. My remembrance of this incident was remarkably wrong and no doubt formed by early reports.

It is pretty unconscionable that the US has not formally apologised. I suspect that that was because there was ongoing international, protracted litigation, but that has long passed and this needed to be very publicly apologized for with no equivocation.

To be crystal clear what they believed at the time, I still believed until tonight and it was 100% wrong. The Iranians could not have set them up in the way they thought they were.

 

[Dazzle1]

You're so ignorant.

Iran’s leaders have repeatedly said that they have no interest or desire to possess any WMD’s, and have signed a number of non-proliferation treaties, to which they have abided.

They have not abided and you ignore their active terrorism in the world. That is why it was aa bad deal. all of our allies in the region opposed it

 

[Que]

They have not abided and you ignore their active terrorism in the world. That is why it was aa bad deal. all of our allies in the region opposed it

You're talking to a guy that actually believes not just that global warming is primarily anthropogenic in nature but it is already manifesting itself to dramatic effect. He believes exactly what he is told to believe. On every subject you can think of.

 

[SpeareChucker]

You're so ignorant.

Iran’s leaders have repeatedly said that they have no interest or desire to possess any WMD’s, and have signed a number of non-proliferation treaties, to which they have abided.

Okay, this one made me laugh, a deep belly laugh...
Iran's American-based Walter Duranty.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Their actions have confirmed their words.

Walter is doubling down...

 

[SpeareChucker]

They have not abided and you ignore their active terrorism in the world. That is why it was aa bad deal. all of our allies in the region opposed it

He's never even heard of Hamas...



I think he ignored all of the Iranians killed in Syria.

 

[ishtat]

He's never even heard of Hamas...

Don't you mean Hezbollah rather than Hamas. I can't believe you're stuffing up the facts like Que.