Incest Writers: Sister should be virginal?

[8letters]

This strikes me as accurate, but I have a slightly different question, as to how same-sex contact is received in IT. Seems to me IT is pretty much a hetero-category.

A lot of the I/T commenters are homophobic older white males. FF sex is fine. The least amount of MM sexual contact will bring out the flamethrowers and the down votes. "Feminist" things like positive consent will also draw negative comments, but not the down votes.

 

[NotWise]

A lot of the I/T commenters are homophobic older white males. FF sex is fine. The least amount of MM sexual contact will bring out the flamethrowers and the down votes. "Feminist" things like positive consent will also draw negative comments, but not the down votes.

Male-male incest relationships would cross two categories where the readers tend to be pretty polarized. It seems to me like a no-win proposal. Female-female incest relationships are likely to be acceptable in I/T but not in Lesbian.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Male-male incest relationships would cross two categories where the readers tend to be pretty polarized. It seems to me like a no-win proposal. Female-female incest relationships are likely to be acceptable in I/T but not in Lesbian.

A lot of the I/T commenters are homophobic older white males. FF sex is fine. The least amount of MM sexual contact will bring out the flamethrowers and the down votes. "Feminist" things like positive consent will also draw negative comments, but not the down votes.

This strikes me as accurate, but I have a slightly different question, as to how same-sex contact is received in IT. Seems to me IT is pretty much a hetero-category.

And the HEA part is thus perhaps more complicated to deliver plausibly. Can a same-sex IT story work well for this audience? My own efforts and anecdotal evidence from others suggests not.

I hear you, 8letters & NotWise. A couple of years back for a Halloween contest I tested that notion with My Sister's Potion, a story filled with a play that leans very much towards the male bisexual side. That probably made it even more of a fringe topic, fracturing the people who want to read about same-sex male relationships by keeping a girl in the mix.

That story has received 201,800+ views, 334 favorites, 4.64 rating on 2,199 votes, and 55 comments. That puts it 12th out 71 stories as far as most favorited in my little library. Score-wise, it's tied with "Amy's College Pussy" - which is the story that prompted this thread. It also puts it in the bottom half of the scores my stories typically achieve. Views and Comments are probably skewed because it was a contest story.

At some point, I'm sure I have a full-on gay male story in me to toss into the fray. Don't have the time to write it now, but hopefully I'll get to it soon enough.

 

[lovecraft68]

A lot of the I/T commenters are homophobic older white males. FF sex is fine. The least amount of MM sexual contact will bring out the flamethrowers and the down votes. "Feminist" things like positive consent will also draw negative comments, but not the down votes.

You know this for fact? You've polled them all? Know their age, their color, their gender? Hate to ruin your profiling of people , but homophobes come in all ages and colors. hell, homosexuality will get you killed in more than a few non white countries in case you weren't aware of that and Lit is world wide if you weren't aware of that?

How about you keep identity politics in the politics forum?

The shitty fact is M/M sex will take a beating anywhere but GM and Fetish seems tolerant of most anything.

GM, like Non con -and also incest-appearing anywhere but their home categories gets a reaction so its unfair to classify ' a lot' of readership as anything in any category, GM/NC/IT are considered trump categories for a reason, they'll get flack for being blended with something else anywhere.

Except for Loving wives....that one is in a class-or lack of-by itself.

 

[lovecraft68]

I personally prefer the sister being older for a similar reason. I generally feel like the older sister stories the older sister has more agency and more control of the situation than in the younger sister stories. I mean that obviously isn't true of all younger sister stories but the idea that the girl should "save herself" for the guy is much more prevalent in younger sister stories.

I like the idea of the sister being portrayed as human, someone who likes dating, and shock horror, likes sex too.

I think another thing that is a problem sometimes is brothers can be portrayed as super creepy, like finding his sisters unwashed underwear and sniffing it. As soon as a main character does that in a story I am done with it as that is really weird. Also happens more often in younger sister stories (a bit more often anyway).

I recently wrote a story for the pay market where it was older brother little sister, and the sister was kind a hippie type and a stoner and very laid back and sweet. I won't bore you with the premise, but the brother end up shocked at how sexy-and sexual- 'little sis' could be. I also mentioned she'd only had a couple of boyfriends because you don't need to have had numerous lovers to know how to have sex.

But that was the first time I tried to mix demure on the surface, but more than meets the eye into that dynamic.

 

[GingerCat1]

A lot of the I/T commenters are homophobic older white males. FF sex is fine. The least amount of MM sexual contact will bring out the flamethrowers and the down votes. "Feminist" things like positive consent will also draw negative comments, but not the down votes.

There is one author whose name I won't mention here that immediately springs to mind when I think of in regards to being super anti-feminist. He keeps writing things about gender theory studied in university that he clearly does not understand. Assertions he has made include

- That feminists believe that the label of "girlfriend" is evil.
- That university teaches that all men are basically rapists
- That straight men are vicitimised in society

He writes long and rather well voted stories but his stories are littered with huge amounts of very anti-women and anti-feminists assertions that I simply no longer read his stories when a new one comes up.

 

[lovecraft68]

There is one author whose name I won't mention here that immediately springs to mind when I think of in regards to being super anti-feminist. He keeps writing things about gender theory studied in university that he clearly does not understand. Assertions he has made include

- That feminists believe that the label of "girlfriend" is evil.
- That university teaches that all men are basically rapists
- That straight men are vicitimised in society

He writes long and rather well voted stories but his stories are littered with huge amounts of very anti-women and anti-feminists assertions that I simply no longer read his stories when a new one comes up.

There is a youtube channel that for some reason pops up on my sidebar once in awhile called "better Bachelor" and another called "Strong successful Male"
So with train wreck fascination I clicked on a couple of videos and my first thought was "holy shit guys like this really exist" the shit they sling is past ignorance and misinformation and well into an almost 'cult of men" type of vibe.

They project their cold male insecurity and project it hard.

I mean, when you have call yourself a strong successful male, that says it all.

But they all pale in comparison to a poster that was here for awhile, I won't name him because I don't want any women in the forum who might pop in skin to start crawling. Just disgusting.

 

[AvroAnson]

But they all pale in comparison to a poster that was here for awhile ...

Let me fix that ... What you say is accurate, but ...

But they all pale in comparison to a poser that was here for awhile ...

Is even more so.

 

[lovecraft68]

Let me fix that ... What you say is accurate, but ...

Is even more so.

I see what you did there....and applaud you for it.

 

[HeyAll]

I think you're judged by what you advertise.

If the female in incest (mom/sister) is portrayed as sweet, religious, and loyal, then the reader is mentally prepared for a certain thing.

If the female character is independent and has a life of her own, then the standard is totally different.

 

[NoJo]

I'm astounded at the prurience of some readers who fantasise about fucking their mothers or sisters.

 

[SimonDoom]

You know this for fact? You've polled them all? Know their age, their color, their gender? Hate to ruin your profiling of people , but homophobes come in all ages and colors. hell, homosexuality will get you killed in more than a few non white countries in case you weren't aware of that and Lit is world wide if you weren't aware of that?

How about you keep identity politics in the politics forum?

.

I don't think he was trying to be political. 8Letters is more data-based and objective than just about anybody else here who posts things. He's not making a political point.

But I agree with your point you can't really generalize, because kink intolerance knows no racial, age, or gender boundaries. The range of reader intolerance is infinite. There's just as much intolerance among young, gay black women readers as there is among us middle-aged hetero white guys.

Although I generally adopt the view toward other authors "Do whatever you want to" I would say this. Try to avoid focusing on the negative rather than the positive. Many authors seem to have a hard time doing this. They publish a story that gets a score of 4.83 and has positive comments, but they go into a tailspin because somebody gave them a bad comment or gave them a 1-vote that knocked their story down to a 4.81. This is what publishing a story is about. Readers react. It happens. Get used to it. Get a thicker skin. Publish what you want. The sister in your incest story can be whatever you want her to be. Will some people dislike a slutty sister? Maybe. Who cares. Some people will like it. Focus on the readers who like your story, not on the readers who don't.

 

[8letters]

You know this for fact? You've polled them all? Know their age, their color, their gender? Hate to ruin your profiling of people , but homophobes come in all ages and colors. hell, homosexuality will get you killed in more than a few non white countries in case you weren't aware of that and Lit is world wide if you weren't aware of that?

How about you keep identity politics in the politics forum?

I only read I/T, so my thoughts are limited to that. I view Literotica as mostly white authors writing stories of mostly white characters in mostly the US (sometimes England, occasionally Australia) for mostly white readers from mostly the US, England and Australia. When I read the comments on my stories, to me they use "white phrasing".

There are also Indian I/T stories, but I don't read those. They may have a very different group of commenters than the stories I do read.

In the US, the younger you are the more likely you are to be tolerant of LGBT sexuality. I'd guess the same for England and Australia.

 

[HeyAll]

I only read I/T, so my thoughts are limited to that. I view Literotica as mostly white authors writing stories of mostly white characters in mostly the US (sometimes England, occasionally Australia) for mostly white readers from mostly the US, England and Australia. When I read the comments on my stories, to me they use "white phrasing".

There are also Indian I/T stories, but I don't read those. They may have a very different group of commenters than the stories I do read.

In the US, the younger you are the more likely you are to be tolerant of LGBT sexuality. I'd guess the same for England and Australia.

48% of Lit readers are from America, then following are Europe and Canada.

https://www.similarweb.com/website/literotica.com/#overview

I saw another stat (maybe that same site from years ago) which puts India as the non-western country with the most Lit readers.

It makes sense because incest, for some reason, always has a lot of incest readers and writers. I've always wondered why incest is more popular in India compared to other countries within that region.

 

[NoJo]

48% of Lit readers are from America, then following are Europe and Canada.

https://www.similarweb.com/website/literotica.com/#overview

I saw another stat (maybe that same site from years ago) which puts India as the non-western country with the most Lit readers.

It makes sense because incest, for some reason, always has a lot of incest readers and writers. I've always wondered why incest is more popular in India compared to other countries within that region.

In India, English is ubiquitous. That's the most likely reason

 

[SimonDoom]

In India, English is ubiquitous. That's the most likely reason

Right. There probably are more English-speaking people in India than in any other country on Earth. It has almost four times the population of the USA.

 

[lovecraft68]

I only read I/T, so my thoughts are limited to that. I view Literotica as mostly white authors writing stories of mostly white characters in mostly the US (sometimes England, occasionally Australia) for mostly white readers from mostly the US, England and Australia. When I read the comments on my stories, to me they use "white phrasing".

There are also Indian I/T stories, but I don't read those. They may have a very different group of commenters than the stories I do read.

In the US, the younger you are the more likely you are to be tolerant of LGBT sexuality. I'd guess the same for England and Australia.

And again you're generalizing both in color and age.

And I'm glad you admit you only know one category. next trick is admitting you don't know everything about that category, I'm not saying I do either, difference is realize that and don't make assumptions about the readership(other than LW where its not an assumption when 90% of the comments are of the same breed) other than what seems to hit or miss with the stories themselves.

 

[lovecraft68]

48% of Lit readers are from America, then following are Europe and Canada.

https://www.similarweb.com/website/literotica.com/#overview

I saw another stat (maybe that same site from years ago) which puts India as the non-western country with the most Lit readers.

It makes sense because incest, for some reason, always has a lot of incest readers and writers. I've always wondered why incest is more popular in India compared to other countries within that region.

In India the matriarch of families is revered, and they rule the families which makes me think that has something to do with how much mom/son material is from there and how much they like to read it. Conversely there seems to be little in the father daughter vein.

Also, they're a bit repressed there, many have to hide the fact they read erotica, let alone if they write it and people who are repressed tend to be the ones that get more pervy as an act of rebellion.

 

[NoJo]

Repressed?? Not the right word. India is the origin of the Kama Sutra (and birthplace of my wife) -- have you really looked properly at some of the imagery in the temples? so much more celebratory of sex than anything I've seen in any other religion, except maybe Santeria, and the little kooky cults that pop up here and there in the West.

What is perhaps a fairer generalization is that pre-marital sex is much more frowned upon there, so there's a lot more horny young men out there who jerk off to porn or see hookers - the same is true in a few other places where fucking your boy/girlfriend is not so acceptable as it is here.

It's also the land (to its shame) of hideous misogynistic atrocities, from girl-babies to brides.

A horny young man, live in close physical and emotional proximity with hot sisters (aunties, mothers), in a place where women are second-class citizens, could well develop (and act on, were it not for the catharsis of reading erotica) incestuous desires


The cliché of the Hindu Nani ruling the roost is pretty rare. But they, and old people in general are treated with more respect than in the West. Family life is important, and family loyalty is strong, whatever your caste or level of education.

I wish India (meaning the Hindu majority there) were more matriarchal. But then I'm a female supremacist.

 

[lovecraft68]

Right. There probably are more English-speaking people in India than in any other country on Earth. It has almost four times the population of the USA.

English is spoken-at least passably-by millions of people around the world, and one thing I've noticed is a lot of obvious English as a second language comments and private feedback, which brings me to use the dreaded "D word" Diversity...which is why I don't generalize who my readership is in any category

 

[8letters]

And again you're generalizing both in color and age.

And I'm glad you admit you only know one category. next trick is admitting you don't know everything about that category, I'm not saying I do either, difference is realize that and don't make assumptions about the readership(other than LW where its not an assumption when 90% of the comments are of the same breed) other than what seems to hit or miss with the stories themselves.

To me, this is stupid. Of course I'm generalizing. Our minds are made to generalize. We constantly generalize through the day. Without generalization, we wouldn't be able to make decisions. I try to make my generalizations based on facts. That's why I did the statistical analysis of stories - I was tired of reading advice about story length, etc based on nothing but people's gut feel.

Pretending to not see race doesn't make you not a racist. Race is still there. Jim Crow laws in general didn't mention race. But they were very racist.

 

[lovecraft68]

Something I find funny about the faction that thikgs sis should be a virgin is that when that is the case they have no issue with the virginal inexperienced sister fucking and sucking like a porn star.

 

[SimonDoom]

Something I find funny about the faction that thikgs sis should be a virgin is that when that is the case they have no issue with the virginal inexperienced sister fucking and sucking like a porn star.

But that makes perfect sense. It heightens the contrast. On the surface she's an inexperienced virgin. But inside there's a raging slut waiting to emerge. Erotica thrives on such improbable contrasts.

 

[Abbafan]

Something I find funny about the faction that thikgs sis should be a virgin is that when that is the case they have no issue with the virginal inexperienced sister fucking and sucking like a porn star.

This is a problem with a lot of those stories. You'd think someone who was into that angle would like the character to actually behave that way, instead of an uninhibited sex fiend.

 

[lovecraft68]

But that makes perfect sense. It heightens the contrast. On the surface she's an inexperienced virgin. But inside there's a raging slut waiting to emerge. Erotica thrives on such improbable contrasts.

Makes sense in the realm of porn absurdity we dwell in and yes it would not be very erotic if she used her teeth because she doesn't know how to give head. I threw it out there because the same people who want the sweet romance of the first time have no issue with it going triple X which seems to be a conflict.

Falls under she can be a slut, but only her brother's slut

Yet I've bene blasted more than once for my "moms' talking and fucking dirty, I guess mom is supposed to be sweet, sis can be dirty?

We need to make a list.

But want to get the ire of the 'real men' have the brother-or any male character- be nervous or awkward and not be a sex god. That gets them all in an uproar.

That crowd seems to think that a 20 year old boy would be a more experienced and superior lover than a 40+ year old woman be she mom or milf or cougar.