I'm out of here

[SimonDoom]

Requiring each chapter to be rules-compliant in itself without reliance on some other chapter seems like the only practical way to handle it, and as others here have already pointed out, you do have the option of submitting the whole thing as a single piece.



If you go to a "real book" publisher and ask them to publish Chapters 1 and 2 of a book that you haven't finished writing yet, they will laugh in your face.

That's the rub, right there.

Some rules at Lit cannot be made sense of. The "nonconsent is OK if the victim enjoys it" rule is one of those rules, IF you try to analyze it from the standpoint of ethics and the real world.

The rule is an imperfect compromise. On the one hand, the site wants to allow nonconsent stories, because they are popular and there's a huge readership for them. On the other hand, it doesn't want to provide a forum for stories where readers derive erotic pleasure from pure suffering, unrelieved by any pleasure. Those are both understandable goals, but the solution is obviously weird, and baffling to some. But there's nothing particularly unfair about the site telling authors, like the OP, you have to find a way to navigate the rules.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Honestly? People who post on the internet hoping for saccharine responses, who then become offended when folks don't answer as they might wish, get little sympathy from me.

I'll never really understand threads like this, be it on Lit or on any of the other subject-specific fora I post in. Nobody held a gun to the OP's head and forced him to start this. He came in sua sponte and decided to air his dirty laundry in a public forum.

If the response was not to his liking, that's not the responders' fault. They're just being honest and giving feedback, which they probably assumed the OP wanted. Because, if he didn't, then why post this?

Actually, most people resorted to mockery straight away. Maybe it is just me who wants to see beyond the anger before I make any judgement, maybe that is just the patience of a high school teacher for 10+ years, but I would rather try with some calm and reasonable approach before resorting to ridicule (well it is not likely I would ever do that, but who knows). What would these forums come to if everyone here reacted like that to every personal attack, and there are plenty of those going around. I understand you not having the patience for some random internet guy, but you could have also ignored his post. There was no need to rub it in his face really.

 

[Voboy]

Actually, most people resorted to mockery straight away. Maybe it is just me who wants to see beyond the anger before I make any judgement, maybe that is just the patience of a high school teacher for 10+ years, but I would rather try with some calm and reasonable approach before resorting to ridicule (well it is not likely I would ever do that, but who knows). What would these forums come to if everyone here reacted like that to every personal attack, and there are plenty of those going around. I understand you not having the patience for some random internet guy, but you could have also ignored his post. There was no need to rub it in his face really.

Seriously, i am aware that very few people wilk actually care. This is just for my own ego. I accept that.

I'll take him at his word. You seem to be taking his thread more seriously than he is himself.

 

[GTO_Racer]

Hi GTO_Racer

would you consider a cooling off period??

you clearly have been successful in many categories

it is your readers and followers who are punished/pay the price when you yank all your stories not those you are angry with...

I might, but this isn't the first story that I have written that has ben rejected for the same reason. I understand the reaso9ning for a complete story, but this is a long story that develops the character and leads her to the proper ending. The rejection explained that they didn't care about the chapters. Each chapter that was published needed to have the character enjoying themselves. Seriously? this site cares nothing about character development or even developing a writing style. If it isn't a stroke story, who cares?

 

[Voboy]

I might, but this isn't the first story that I have written that has ben rejected for the same reason. I understand the reaso9ning for a complete story, but this is a long story that develops the character and leads her to the proper ending. The rejection explained that they didn't care about the chapters. Each chapter that was published needed to have the character enjoying themselves. Seriously? this site cares nothing about character development or even developing a writing style. If it isn't a stroke story, who cares?

I'll be polite:

How is Laurel supposed to know what your intentions for the story are before you've even written them? The "complete story" is literally the only thing she has to go on when agreeing to host your work. If you're not providing her with that complete story, then how is that her fault?

She publishes stories. Not ideas. Write it all and submit it all. That way, she'll know whether it's something she wants to post. It's the only way.

 

[djrip]

Why not? The forum is meant to serve a broader purpose than just being a support group for rejected nerds.

Ok, rant on the forum, but understand that will have no effect and also contact laurel...

 

[SimonDoom]

This thread, like some others, reminds me of the old adage about legal arguments: if you've got the law on your side, pound the law; if you've got the facts on your side, pound the facts; and if you have neither on your side, pound the table.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

This thread, like some others, reminds me of the old adage about legal arguments: if you've got the law on your side, pound the law; if you've got the facts on your side, pound the facts; and if you have neither on your side, pound the table.

There has been a lot of pounding the table recently

 

[SimonDoom]

I might, but this isn't the first story that I have written that has ben rejected for the same reason. I understand the reaso9ning for a complete story, but this is a long story that develops the character and leads her to the proper ending. The rejection explained that they didn't care about the chapters. Each chapter that was published needed to have the character enjoying themselves. Seriously? this site cares nothing about character development or even developing a writing style. If it isn't a stroke story, who cares?

How long? Lit readers on the whole are very tolerant of long stories. There are some very long stories with both high views and high scores. I think posting it as one story is the way to go here.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

There has been a lot of pounding the table recently

I never expected to encounter so many seriously critical, holier-than-thou individuals on a smutty adult website... but hey. -shrugs- Learning to let it roll off will get you a long way.

 

[Euphony]

LOL. I love your replies. Sorry, missed that typo.

Going for comedic levity.

Yes, they are allowed to have their rues. Unfortunately, i have found their rules to be quite subjective. I've had a few stories rejected for grammar issues, then seen other stories published that border on unreadable because of the same issues.

Yes, I understand. I have actually read some of those stories long ago. A look through my non-con stories shows that I don't write anything like that. Theb woman originally doesn't want what happens but she does fantasize about it and eventually is a willing participant

Too many abused this faith in the past. It's legitimately has almost nothing to do with you and how you present.

As I said, in the first chapter, it is obvious that she fantasized about this. I also told them in the submission that she would accept and like it. They evenpublished the second chapter.

Admittedly confusing push pull but, and it is only opinion as that's all we have which is why Laurel is the source on these matters, they wanted to give you at least some benefit of the doubt and an interest in tidying up the first, non-compliant chapter.

Haven't read it but maybe even Chpt 2 was good enough and stand alone-y enough to publish even if titled differently.

I see at least some logic in not punishing the valid content for tangential linkage to borderline content they believe will be made complaint based on the authors history, nature of the valid chapters, etc. etc.

Actually, I almost never read the comments on my stories. I never even look at the scores. I write because I want to. I really don't care hat anyone thinks about my stories. I really don't even know why I put that in my post except that it seamed like a decent score.

It's the playground of the egocentric who use this device/defense with regular frequency.

It's been abused to the point of crying wolf (even where there is one dead center in town square) causes issues even when you aren't the issue.

Actually, I do read a lot of other author's stories. Soul, Hardaysnight, blackrandi, Saddletramp, Justplainbob, Ohio, and a whole lot of others as well.

I may have been a touch snarky and mischaracterized understanding the lay of the land equating to volume of reading and engagement with others work.

Two seperate things really.

Seriously, i am aware that very few people wilk actually care. This is just for my own ego. I accept that.

And that's the thing. You clearly have a solid understanding of the constant issue of the letter of Lit's laws, the spirit of them, and their seemingly irregular application. It's imperfect for sure but also comes with the territory.

You had a moment where you stepped outside yourself and broke the "in case of emergency" glass which has outside consequences based on past abuses (again, none of those instances were your doing) which have hardened the AH (and it's helpfulness at times.)

Non-con debate and issues are one of the AH's biggest tropes (along with age.)

Your step outside yourself met our collective exhaustion and a bad brew was batched.

I thought about that, but this is a long story, and I have no idea how long it would take ton get to that point. I don't write one story at a time. I have several going on at once and write whatever comes into my warper brain at that time.

You are 100 here with the reality of the difficulty in writing an entire encapsulated story while living a normal day to day life. It's one of our greater challenges.

On the flip is someone having to read through ALL of the submitted stories and try to apply (In a balanced fashion) rules and spirit of the rules that work for both the content's authors and the viability of the business that is this site.

Add in there are always those hell bent on testing the limits (the example that comes to mind is the author who was adamant the sex needed to occur before the 18 y.o's time of birth, that also needed to be established, that it was critically relevant to the story, and that it wasn't trying to end run around the 18 yo restriction in any way, shape, or form. I joke we will have "time zone crossover fucks" submissions but it's likely already happened in volume and I just missed it.)

Your frustrations are valid but many of us see complete removal of our catalog and a loud exit a bit of an overcorrection.

Your work is your work and you can feel unsupported even when everyone says you are.

If this place isn't working creatively for you, it is imperative you leave because (usually) the creative process is far more important to self-enrichment than the (admittedly large) exposure of Lit.

Protect your motivation at all costs. I assume writing is important to you beyond simply throwing down some words on a page for some people to see.

Protect it.

I like your words of wisdom.

Ah the vagaries of the internet. I legit have no idea if this is truthful or counter snark (both understandable) so I will suggest there's little wisdom here you didn't already have yourself and needed a mirror.

Again, and I mean this with no snark and whole heartedly, find what works for you to keep working and if it is or isn't this place and it's peculiarities, move in that direction.

Some eyeroll when I suggest some scribbles here are "art" but they are even when we choose to classify them differently.

Our art matters and its continuance is responsibility #1.

I legitimately wish you whatever success enriches you and your work and its continuance even if that means it can't continue here.

E

 

[GTO_Racer]

I'll be polite:

How is Laurel supposed to know what your intentions for the story are before you've even written them? The "complete story" is literally the only thing she has to go on when agreeing to host your work. If you're not providing her with that complete story, then how is that her fault?

She publishes stories. Not ideas. Write it all and submit it all. That way, she'll know whether it's something she wants to post. It's the only way.

It's very easy. When a story is submitted, there is a section there for information for the moderator. I explained it in detail there. It didn't seem to matter.

 

[Voboy]

It's very easy. When a story is submitted, there is a section there for information for the moderator. I explained it in detail there. It didn't seem to matter.

Right, but that's what I'm saying: you tried it your way. Now try it hers, perhaps?

 

[GTO_Racer]

Going for comedic levity.

Too many abused this faith in the past. It's legitimately has almost nothing to do with you and how you present.

Admittedly confusing push pull but, and it is only opinion as that's all we have which is why Laurel is the source on these matters, they wanted to give you at least some benefit of the doubt and an interest in tidying up the first, non-compliant chapter.

Haven't read it but maybe even Chpt 2 was good enough and stand alone-y enough to publish even if titled differently.

I see at least some logic in not punishing the valid content for tangential linkage to borderline content they believe will be made complaint based on the authors history, nature of the valid chapters, etc. etc.

It's the playground of the egocentric who use this device/defense with regular frequency.

It's been abused to the point of crying wolf (even where there is one dead center in town square) causes issues even when you aren't the issue.

I may have been a touch snarky and mischaracterized understanding the lay of the land equating to volume of reading and engagement with others work.

Two seperate things really.

And that's the thing. You clearly have a solid understanding of the constant issue of the letter of Lit's laws, the spirit of them, and their seemingly irregular application. It's imperfect for sure but also comes with the territory.

You had a moment where you stepped outside yourself and broke the "in case of emergency" glass which has outside consequences based on past abuses (again, none of those instances were your doing) which have hardened the AH (and it's helpfulness at times.)

Non-con debate and issues are one of the AH's biggest tropes (along with age.)

Your step outside yourself met our collective exhaustion and a bad brew was batched.

You are 100 here with the reality of the difficulty in writing an entire encapsulated story while living a normal day to day life. It's one of our greater challenges.

On the flip is someone having to read through ALL of the submitted stories and try to apply (In a balanced fashion) rules and spirit of the rules that work for both the content's authors and the viability of the business that is this site.

Add in there are always those hell bent on testing the limits (the example that comes to mind is the author who was adamant the sex needed to occur before the 18 y.o's time of birth, that also needed to be established, that it was critically relevant to the story, and that it wasn't trying to end run around the 18 yo restriction in any way, shape, or form. I joke we will have "time zone crossover fucks" submissions but it's likely already happened in volume and I just missed it.)

Your frustrations are valid but many of us see complete removal of our catalog and a loud exit a bit of an overcorrection.

Your work is your work and you can feel unsupported even when everyone says you are.

If this place isn't working creatively for you, it is imperative you leave because (usually) the creative process is far more important to self-enrichment than the (admittedly large) exposure of Lit.

Protect your motivation at all costs. I assume writing is important to you beyond simply throwing down some words on a page for some people to see.

Protect it.

Ah the vagaries of the internet. I legit have no idea if this is truthful or counter snark (both understandable) so I will suggest there's little wisdom here you didn't already have yourself and needed a mirror.

Again, and I mean this with no snark and whole heartedly, find what works for you to keep working and if it is or isn't this place and it's peculiarities, move in that direction.

Some eyeroll when I suggest some scribbles here are "art" but they are even when we choose to classify them differently.

Our art matters and its continuance is responsibility #1.

I legitimately wish you whatever success enriches you and your work and its continuance even if that means it can't continue here.

E

It is truthfully. My snark is a bit suburd at the moment.

 

[Euphony]

Actually, most people resorted to mockery straight away. Maybe it is just me who wants to see beyond the anger before I make any judgement, maybe that is just the patience of a high school teacher for 10+ years, but I would rather try with some calm and reasonable approach before resorting to ridicule (well it is not likely I would ever do that, but who knows). What would these forums come to if everyone here reacted like that to every personal attack, and there are plenty of those going around. I understand you not having the patience for some random internet guy, but you could have also ignored his post. There was no need to rub it in his face really.

I won't weigh in on the categorization of responses as mockery or not as it is far too complicated to suss out intent and sometimes a small bit of mockery is instructive for the OP and a necessary release valve for the poster.

Some of us have been here a decade on and have had the exact same situations and battles fought over and over until our reserves are simply depleted.

And these same types of are frequent enough to be near unmissable and unending.

I suppose the argument can be we as "not the o.p." shouldn't be afforded the same deference to our experiences as the original poster b/c we "didn't put ourselves out there" in the same way.

That seems ripe for its own set of problems.

Extremes on the spectrum simply don't work and attract the opposite far end of the spectrum.

We could all better work towards a middle path.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's very easy. When a story is submitted, there is a section there for information for the moderator. I explained it in detail there. It didn't seem to matter.

I am expecting the sky to fall on my head, as I am about to defend Laurel, but I have to say that your explanation isn't really relevant. There are sooo many authors here. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if she started trusting the word of each author? You are hardly the only one who is frustrated with the way some things work on Lit, but I would probably do the same thing were I in Laurel's place. There are some double standards and inconsistencies with the way some things work, but I don't think this is such an example. I'd say she is just being practical in this case. Do what most of us have done and adjust your approach. If the hill won't come to Mohammad, then Mohammad will come to the hill.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I really don't want to leave, but it seems that the moderators here on the non-con area simply don't understand the genre. Yes, I understand aa stand-alone story where a woman is brutalized and has absolutely no enjoyment out of it getting rejected. That is not the case here. One, the main character does have several orgasms. Two, this was actually a fantasy that she had. Three, I explained to the moderator in my submission that she would come to enjoy what was happening. And four, THEY PUBLISHED THE SECOND CHAPTER!!!

They're under no obligation to "understand the genre".

They have a policy on non-con content and what they will allow. If you want to publish on Lit it's up to YOU to comply with their policy. This is not a hard concept to follow, just follow it and stop wasting your time.

You're getting advice and people are taking the piss, because these rants are typical, repetitive, and all about "your story". We all have precious stories and, gee, look, they get published. I wonder why?

You clearly understand the rules. Follow them, and get your story published. Easy.

Next.

 

[NoTalentHack]

We have a den of hostility?

I prefer to think of it as a rumpus room of misanthropy.

 

[NoTalentHack]

That merits a ROTFLMAO - my Dad told me what that meant. Have wanted to use it for a while. An elegant weapon for a more civilised time.

Em

Not as clumsy or random as a LOL.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Why not? The forum is meant to serve a broader purpose than just being a support group for rejected nerds.

I am not a rejected nerd. I am an accepted nerd.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I feel you, but after so many years, you should already know how things work around here.
You obviously aren't familiar with AH residents, if you think this den of hostility and antipathy is the right place for sympathy. The place draws in the bottom of the food chain. You can find your place if you are an entomologist or a simpleton.

So Tilan, you're only here for the free beer and pretzels?

 

[SimonDoom]

So Tilan, you're only here for the free beer and pretzels?

Jeez, I must be one of the rejected nerds, because nobody EVER told me about those.

 

[Duleigh]

I'm done here. It's obvious that the 'Moderators' don't bother really reading stories or even take into account the author's intent. I'm in the process of writing a couple of multi-part stories in the non-consent category. I have had a couple of stories that I have submitted in this category rejected because the 'moderator' seems to think that the victim should love everything that happens to them. Seriously? Do these idiots even know what the term 'Non-consent' even means?

Obviouly YOU don't know, it is CLEARLY stated in the Content Guidelines

To that end, we DO NOT publish works of any type featuring the following content:

• Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

What part of the word "FANTASIES" escapes you? What part of the word "NO" do you not understand?

D.L.T.D.H.Y.I.T.A.O.T.W.O.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There aren't 'moderators', not when it comes to publications. There's one site owner vetting hundreds, likely thousands of submissions a day, and she is very specific when it comes to categories like NC/R... I won't pretend that I haven't seen some incredibly questionable extremely fucked up things that are without a doubt full on snuff published on the site, though. So really, if you want to plead your case, send Laurel a private message herself explaining your situation... or do as many of the authors here suggested and group your content together enough that it is clear that it adheres to her guidelines. If the second part made it through, try to combine the first chapter with it and resubmit?

Laurel doesn't have time to read through every story to the fine details, she skims in most cases and makes her decisions based on that. But likewise, I stand by my earlier thoughts... don't throw away your following because of a few restrictions, and if you can't pass your story through publication as is, perhaps even tone down the content. I know, it's not ideal for 'creative freedom', but as users on a private website with guidelines we can only adhere to the site owners wishes if we wish to publish on her platform.e

There has been speculation that the site uses bots just to get things published in some reasonable time frame. However, I've seen cases where a reader seems to get offended and drops a dime on the writer and reports it to Laurel. The writer will only see that the story has suddenly disappeared; they may not even get a reason from the site. It doesn't seem fair, but it's happened to stories that were posted several years earlier

 

[ElectricBlue]

There has been speculation that the site uses bots just to get things published in some reasonable time frame. However, I've seen cases where a reader seems to get offended and drops a dime on the writer and reports it to Laurel. The writer will only see that the story has suddenly disappeared; they may not even get a reason from the site. It doesn't seem fair, but it's happened to stories that were posted several years earlier

A reported story, from what I can figure out, gets handled the same way as a rejected submission does - it gets bounced back to the author with the generic message related to whatever policy breach has gone on.

If the author does nothing, it stays down. If the author addresses the rejection notice and/or argues their case, it can get reinstated. As I see it, the author will always get a take down reason from the site, and an opportunity to remedy. If they don't bother, that's on them, not the site.

Seems fair to me.