George your first non elected President in history...

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

Reason #1254 why you're a cunting moron who has no business debating U.S. politics.

TB4p

But it's OK for Americans to debate other countries' politics is it?

At least you can sleep safetly in your bed at night knowing the world can't have any real affect on your way of life...

Pity I can't say that if the situation was reversed...

ppman

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

OK, maybe I should have said an uncomplicated system of health care for all. Where you're looked after by the State from the cradle to the grave...

My experience with anything that involves the government is that it cannot be uncomplicated. In other words, what you are talking about is incredibly naive.
A vision of people just walking into a clinic or hospital and getting cared for at "no cost" (actually an incredible cost to the taxpayers who will continue to work — with free medical care can "free" food be far behind) will inevitably lead to the system being swamped by people with every sort of minor symptom. No problem, of course, because they'll get "free" drugs such as aspirin.
Doctors, meanwhile, will toil along on the same payscale and get their raises every year or so for longevity. That, historically, has bred mediocrity.
Then there will be the cry for more cash as the "free" system costs billions more than anticipated. That leads to decisions by bureaucrats: Do we really need to offer MRIs here? Could the doctors work two more hours a day? Maybe someone who has a heart attack should only be allowed to stay in the hospital three days. And maybe we should close this small hospital and make everyone go to the big one 60 miles away.
A state that can take care of you from cradle to grave? Oh yes, they'll take care of you.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

My experience with anything that involves the government is that it cannot be uncomplicated. In other words, what you are talking about is incredibly naive.
A vision of people just walking into a clinic or hospital and getting cared for at "no cost" (actually an incredible cost to the taxpayers who will continue to work — with free medical care can "free" food be far behind) will inevitably lead to the system being swamped by people with every sort of minor symptom. No problem, of course, because they'll get "free" drugs such as aspirin.
Doctors, meanwhile, will toil along on the same payscale and get their raises every year or so for longevity. That, historically, has bred mediocrity.
Then there will be the cry for more cash as the "free" system costs billions more than anticipated. That leads to decisions by bureaucrats: Do we really need to offer MRIs here? Could the doctors work two more hours a day? Maybe someone who has a heart attack should only be allowed to stay in the hospital three days. And maybe we should close this small hospital and make everyone go to the big one 60 miles away.
A state that can take care of you from cradle to grave? Oh yes, they'll take care of you.

You've more or less described the British National Health Service. It's been working for 60 years, creaking along at times but still working. There are and always have been arguments about waiting times for operations, and there are and always have been arguments about pay scales and conditions of service, but all in all it works.

As soon as teenagers start work they are issued with a National Insurance Number and they pay a percentage of their pay into a fund which, among other things pays the cost of running the National Health Service...

The Accident and Emergency Departments will always accept you and your Family Doctor gets paid by the State...

There's no need to worry about paying the bills...

NHS 'Pay Deal'

ppman

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

You've more or less described the British National Health Service. It's been working for 60 years, creaking along at times but still working. There are and always have been arguments about waiting times for operations, and there are and always have been arguments about pay scales and conditions of service, but all in all it works.
There's no need to worry about paying the bills...
NHS 'Pay Deal'

ppman

You've made my point by noting the shortcomings and then saying it works. After 60 years I suppose most people would think it works just fine. They don't know any better.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

You've made my point by noting the shortcomings and then saying it works. After 60 years I suppose most people would think it works just fine. They don't know any better.

The shortcoming are always a matter of debate and are usually near the top of any political agenda and as for not knowing any better we can always look at America to see a worse system than our own...

The main thing about the NHS to the man in the street is that it's uncomplicated and easy to use...

ppman

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

But it's OK for Americans to debate other countries' politics is it?

At least you can sleep safetly in your bed at night knowing the world can't have any real affect on your way of life...

Pity I can't say that if the situation was reversed...

ppman

I don't debate British politics. I don't give a smeg if Tony Blair's your PM or John Major. That's all your business.

Granted, in foreign policy and workings of the world, it's a little different, as everything is connected.

I may criticize other world leaders but I'd never spend every waking moment wondering why they got elected and demanding that they be removed.

TB4p

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

I don't debate British politics. I don't give a smeg if Tony Blair's your PM or John Major. That's all your business.

Granted, in foreign policy and workings of the world, it's a little different, as everything is connected.

I may criticize other world leaders but I'd never spend every waking moment wondering why they got elected and demanding that they be removed.

TB4p

I wouldn't normally but the trouble is practically everything the President of the US says or does has a knock on effect around the world.

So we're involved whether we like it or not...

You're probably just not used to such heavy criticism from us foreigners...

ppman

 

[metal_minx]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

I wouldn't normally but the trouble is practically everything the President of the US says or does has a knock on effect around the world.

So we're involved whether we like it or not...

You're probably just not used to such heavy criticism from us foreigners...

ppman

There's the point, TB4P, the U$ govt likes to stick their nose into everyone's buisness...and if we don't care for what someone is doing they respond, usually violently or with disregard to how it affects the ordinary people of that country (ie Iraqi sanctions)
I'm American, and I just hope all you foreigners can pressure our government to drop the John Wayne syndrome.

 

[chromefreak]

BTW - I had forgotten all about the rebate...

I put it into a fund.

It's bigger.

Mine was spent in London and Brighton, where it didn't go quite as far as it would have here in the states.

 

[hellcity]

dubya will raise taxes just like his daddy did,just wait.
how can he not since he has set us up into a war that according to his own administrations figure will cost 9 billion dollars a month.
i didn't vote for the guy but he is our president so i try to show support but the longer he is around the worse i feel about him.

but in the end it's a a bunch of rich white men who treat all who are not in the same social class as them as morons, doesn't matter what color you are they simply see us all as ignorant fools to be led like sheep.

and to anybody who talks about wasting money on entitlement just realize that we spend more oney on making americans feel good about american made products than we do on feeding poor children in our own country, the american ad council is a 100% government funded group, got milk, eat beef and all those other comercials you see everyday that are suppose to make you feel good about products you already own are paid for wit your tax $.

there was a biography on A &E about the people in bush's administration and it talked about the connection between cheney and rice and the falling out they had with the taliban about a pipeline in afganistan. they even had a report from rice about how the pipeline would have to be delayed until there was a friendlier government. it even made my father, a diehard partyline republican so pissed at bush and co. that he now refuses to vote because he would rather not vote than vote democrat. for some reason after 9/11 A &E haven't replayed that show.

i am a registered republican but dubya has chased me away from the party because i thought conservative was about less government not the kind of shit in the UN-"patriot act"


all i can saay is that i am seriously starting to consider the libertarian party

 

[SINthysist]

Yes, yes I have!

His skillfull handling of the economy (because the sitting President ALWAYS gets blame or credit) has enriched me and my household and allowed me to put back a large chunk of change for my little one's education.

Also since I hang with the 'Publicans, the things I say to legislators has a better chance of going somewhere than it did when the guy who was elected by LESS THAN HALF OF THE AMERICAN VOTERS was in office...




HOW HAS YOUR LIFE GOTTEN WORSE BECAUSE HE WAS ELECTED, OTHER THAN YOUR MENTAL HEALTH WHICH WE CAN SEE HAS DIMINISHED GREATLY...?

Are you going to duck the question yet again?


Don did not answer it, just started an attack on something else. I'll wager you won't answer it because, personally, you don't like the answer...

 

[SINthysist]

Mine was spent in London and Brighton, where it didn't go quite as far as it would have here in the states.

 

[SINthysist]

dubya will raise taxes just like his daddy did,just wait.
how can he not since he has set us up into a war that according to his own administrations figure will cost 9 billion dollars a month.
i didn't vote for the guy but he is our president so i try to show support but the longer he is around the worse i feel about him.

but in the end it's a a bunch of rich white men who treat all who are not in the same social class as them as morons, doesn't matter what color you are they simply see us all as ignorant fools to be led like sheep.

and to anybody who talks about wasting money on entitlement just realize that we spend more oney on making americans feel good about american made products than we do on feeding poor children in our own country, the american ad council is a 100% government funded group, got milk, eat beef and all those other comercials you see everyday that are suppose to make you feel good about products you already own are paid for wit your tax $.

there was a biography on A &E about the people in bush's administration and it talked about the connection between cheney and rice and the falling out they had with the taliban about a pipeline in afganistan. they even had a report from rice about how the pipeline would have to be delayed until there was a friendlier government. it even made my father, a diehard partyline republican so pissed at bush and co. that he now refuses to vote because he would rather not vote than vote democrat. for some reason after 9/11 A &E haven't replayed that show.

i am a registered republican but dubya has chased me away from the party because i thought conservative was about less government not the kind of shit in the UN-"patriot act"


all i can saay is that i am seriously starting to consider the libertarian party

We'd love to have you. Clean up the spelling, grammer, punctuation and caps first so we don't look as bad...

Oh yeah, search on UncleBill and read about the Libertarian point of view, just to make sure you're one of us !

 

[Byron In Exile]

I'm American, and I just hope all you foreigners can pressure our government to drop the John Wayne syndrome.

That has to come from the natives. Poking 'em from the outside just makes 'em mad.

 

[SINthysist]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

There's the point, TB4P, the U$ govt likes to stick their nose into everyone's buisness...and if we don't care for what someone is doing they respond, usually violently or with disregard to how it affects the ordinary people of that country (ie Iraqi sanctions)
I'm American, and I just hope all you foreigners can pressure our government to drop the John Wayne syndrome.

Tell me which government doesn't stick it's noses into everyone's business? All governments interact on the geo-political level. Our government has acted in its best interests, but more importantly has been asked in a lot of instances to protect helpless muslim enclaves and other humanitarian and military adventures driven by people in the world who are not good, who in fact want to stick their nose into OUR business. And then there was the SPECIAL invitation of 9-11 to come out and play...

Those foreigners like p_p_man, as an example, screamed bloody murder when Isreal unloaded on Arafat, "Where's Bush, Where's the US, See, we told you he was incapable of leading, a blunderer, a moron, an idiot..." When we did get involved, WE-E-E-E-E-L-L-L-L, we sure did it wrong, not the way the EU would have handled it, CERTAINLY not the way p_p_man would have handled it...

Someone needs to learn which side their bread is buttered on!

 

[miles]

If healthcare is free, what's pp's excuse for getting hammered every day?

I know. He can stop whenever he wants.

 

[miles]

bump

Still waiting for donky dick to answer me

 

[p_p_man]

Are you going to duck the question yet again?

I already have waayyy back on this thread but I don't think you understood my answer...



ppman

 

[p_p_man]

If healthcare is free, what's pp's excuse for getting hammered every day?

Because it ain't. It's paid for through our compulsory National Insurance contributions...

And it's every other day if you don't mind...



ppman

 

[SINthysist]

No, you dodged by telling me how your life got better...

But yet are so sure Bush has had such a PROFOUND negative effect on America. If he's that negative, then surely you can point out the damage to yourself lest ye look like the village loon laddie...

'Cause otherwise, you have NO point!

 

[p_p_man]

No, you dodged by telling me how your life got better...

But yet are so sure Bush has had such a PROFOUND negative effect on America. If he's that negative, then surely you can point out the damage to yourself lest ye look like the village loon laddie...

'Cause otherwise, you have NO point!

Bad for America, good for me...

He's a columnist's dream, as I mentioned the first time...

ppman

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So really it's the same as before...

I don't debate British politics. I don't give a smeg if Tony Blair's your PM or John Major. That's all your business.

Granted, in foreign policy and workings of the world, it's a little different, as everything is connected.

I may criticize other world leaders but I'd never spend every waking moment wondering why they got elected and demanding that they be removed. TB4p

Hi TB4p . . . being serious for a rare moment . . .

The reason "us foreigners" take such an interest in US affairs is that we get them rammed down our throats by our news media every night. Consequnetly, we know as much, or more about US politics than our own, in many cases. We certainly get an over-dose of cultural imperialism, but in fairness we ask for a lot of that, especially Hollywood block-busters, and it is cheaper to buy in American TV rubbish than produce our own quality drama or other shows for low viewing time-slots, so the great god profit has a say also.

But even more important is the leading role that the US has in Western thinking. Give the First Congress their due, they wrote a very important document that has influenced Oz history in Federation (1901) and many other Western democracies as well. When we members of another democracy see the US, until now the world leading democracy, doing something a little suspect and against its own "rules" then we are concerned because our politicians will also try to get away wioth it, to the detriment of our people. That is not a good scene. So, we get concerned and speak out, hoping that some Americans may hear our points and make the necessary changes that only they can make.

We are exercising our right to freedom of speech . . . there are many politicians in totalitarian states and also Western democracies who would just love to stifle our opinions. When that happens, it is time to stand up and be counted in favour of freedom of speech, and association, and religion.

End of being serious.

Now SIN . . . I fortunately live in Oz, where one state has free health care, the other states are following the US model and running down our state hospital system, for all the wrong reasons. The election of Dubyah Shrub has had little direct effect on me to this time, however, when the US invaded Vietnam our last war-mongering Prim Monster (the cowardly Pig Iron Bob Menzies who resigned his army commission on the first day of WWI) asked to join in and my generation got affected, badly affected. Agent Orange syndrome, nervous shock, alcoholism, just to name a few of the debilitating conditions that resulted from US imperialism the last time. Not again!

And Mules . . . just to keep your blood pressure on overheated . . . I don't think that I'll bother to answer your question this evening. Have a nice day.

 

[SINthysist]

So, he serves as a propoganda purpose and you wish to base your attacks on no fact, just silly rhetoric. Such a thinking man...

I bet you look real distinguished on your parkside soapbox!

He has lessoned your lot by not one wit, nor mine.

 

[Don K Dyck]

So, he serves as a propoganda purpose and you wish to base your attacks on no fact, just silly rhetoric. Such a thinking man...

I bet you look real distinguished on your parkside soapbox!

He has lessoned your lot by not one wit, nor mine.

Well SIN . . . that is not strictly correct. In the US the war budget looks like topping $US9 billion a month, that will have to come from somewhere.

In Oz, the government has re-directed funds into buying over-priced US ordnance and weapon systems, taking scarce resources away from other more important social programmes for the benefit of aussies.

As the Shah of Iran said, "It is difficult to be friends with America."

 

[70/30]

Before 9/11/01 GWB had no more than 2 cabinet meetings that dealt with the prospects of terrorism. He is either the most incompetent president concerning domestic defense since Thomas Jefferson or he was hoping an attack would occur. You know, to do exactly what he's done since 9/11.