Forced/Reluctant Sex scenes?

[Kantarii]

So I'm super late to this thread, but I just want to note that:

Yes, rape is super bad, however. Lots of women enjoy rape fantasy as a kink, whether through erotica, cybersex roleplaying, or BDSM roleplaying. Some of these women are actually rape survivors themselves, and apparently the trauma can change over time to a fetish as a way of reclaiming their sexuality (or some such, I'm merely an armchair psychologist here).

Lit's rule is fairly specific on non-con/rape ending in the victim enjoying it, which maps just fine to the idea of rape victims coming to prefer feeling powerless during sex (whether simulated via the use of a safeword, or not).

It's not for everyone of course, but there's very much a readership out there for rape fantasy stuff. When you get right down to it, it's really not any more outrageously taboo than stories that focus on incest themes or bestiality themes (not here on Lit of course, but easily found elsewhere).

Better late than never on the insightful input

 

[sr71plt]

it, which maps just fine to the idea of rape victims coming to prefer feeling powerless during sex (whether simulated via the use of a safeword, or not).

It also maps just fine with the person who wants to experience controlled sex but social taboos have precluded them from crossing that line with overt consent. This scenario does exist as does the "understood but not verbalized consent" of a rape sex game. What the writer needs to do for these situations, I think (and do, which I use them) is to establish the unspoken consent through a mental check with those involved before it happens as, on the surface, a nonconsent situation.

 

[hylas_]

Rape fantasies get me off, and I enjoy writing them. In my stories, the victim always ends up enjoying themselves, but let's be really clear here... in real life, those scenarios would still be rape.

Rape in real life is, of course, abhorrent. But we're talking erotic imagination here, it's really not so complicated in my opinion. We have all very limited control over what we find arousing. And if rape fantasies get you off... well, as long as you don't harm anyone, right? Writing/reading rape fantasies doesn't harm anyone. Just label your stuff correctly, it's clearly not for everyone. Nothing is.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm not a huge fan of them myself. I do use them sparingly in my stories to build sentiment for one of my characters and to build hatred/ resentment for another character. I'm not one to actually find some type of fantasy pleasure in those sex scenes... was interested in hearing what others had to say about them. I know when I write my newest chapter to " A Slut's Triangle" I wrote from personal/ realistic experiences I've had and some parts were painful to express, invoking past memories. Thoughts?
Kant

https://www.literotica.com/s/a-sluts-triangle-pt-14 (the chapter I'm referring to using forced/reluctant sex scene in conjunction with mind control aspects and the vicious cycle of an abusive relationship)

That story well-put.
I have a bit of a problem at present trying to describe an assault by a Landed Gentry upon a fair maid who's not at all impressed by his assumptions of her willingness. She escapes but I am finding it very difficult to describe the events.

With the spread of "no means no" campaigns and tighter rape laws across the world (eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36726095), forced and reluctant sex is increasingly being seen as an illegal and unacceptable activity that doesn't have the 'doesn't harm anyone' saving grace that might be claimed for, say, incest. Forced or reluctant sex scenes clearly go against laws that require that consent to sex must be clear and unequivocal and not extracted under duress, alcohol, drugs, etc. No doubt one day Lit will catch up and forced/reluctant sex will become as unwelcome as underage, snuff and bestiality.

There have been moves round here to protect the name of the 'rapee'.
There are those who suggest that the 'raper' should not be named until convicted and say she could be named after the trial (especially if she is discovered to be lying in her teeth).

But of course, modern journalism being what it is, there's no such thing as discretion, is there.

 

[Kantarii]

That story well-put.
I have a bit of a problem at present trying to describe an assault by a Landed Gentry upon a fair maid who's not at all impressed by his assumptions of her willingness. She escapes but I am finding it very difficult to describe the events.





There have been moves round here to protect the name of the 'rapee'.
There are those who suggest that the 'raper' should not be named until convicted and say she could be named after the trial (especially if she is discovered to be lying in her teeth).

But of course, modern journalism being what it is, there's no such thing as discretion, is there.

Yeah, Chapter 14 of "AST" was pretty intense. I got some good feedback from emails on it

 

[rutger5]

It seems silly to have to put a disclaimer on a discussion about fiction, but that's how things are it seems. So here goes, I don't think rl rape is ok and I think that rapists should be punished severely. I'm not a rapist and by the way I'm not a murderer and I don't pass bad checks either.

I have written some noncom/rape stories though I haven't posted any on Lit as of now though I may in future.

The reason I've written them is people like them. I can't say that someone who may have read them may not think rape is ok but the same thing applies to stories about murder or anything else that is wrong.

But in my experience I receive a lot more feedback from women who get off on noncom stories than I do from men though no way to tell what percentage of each actually reads. Why do they like? Probably varies but like one lady said to me I can't help what I like but they turn me on and she encouraged me to write more of them.

I met my dearest internet friend because she read a nonhuman noncom/reluctance story I wrote and that story was tame compared to a lot of stuff she likes. That doesn't mean they want it to happen in real life but for whatever reason they get off on the fantasy. Some like noncom while others perv on werewolves or vampires, who's to say why.

Now as a writer I don't want to offend potential readers so whether rape, incest, murder, or any subject that could upset someone then let the reader know in advance it will be there. Since the tag system here isn't optimal then put a warning before the story so no one is surprised. Obviously privately owned sites determine what they allow but beyond that I believe in free expression. That doesn't mean one should write something they don't want to but it is fiction/fantasy, not real life.
r5

 

[HandsInTheDark]

It's not possible to generalize to all readers, but yes. I write Reluctance, edging into non-con. Most of my emails and comments have been from women. I've discussed it with a few (both on this site and elsewhere) at some length, and I'll give you the benefit of my OVERLY SMALL SAMPLE SIZE, complete with my biases and faulty memory.

Rape is surprisingly common, if you look into the numbers. What's defined as rape varies, but however you slice the numbers, there's a lot of penetrative sex forced on unwilling women, many of them young. Some shake it off; quite a few don't, and end up with complicated responses to the event. There's a set of those, and I don't know percentages, who thereafter only find violent or nonconsenting sex erotic. Note that erotic and appealing aren't always the same, and I'm not discussing any sort of healthy reaction here. I think a number of those withdraw from real life sexuality and find a very dark sort of arousal and release in reading about things just like what happened to them. Others end up on sexual roleplay sites; others end up in very destructive relationships.

There's another set of women who are simply turned on by what I'll loosely call hyper-masculine behaviour. Somewhere in the brain of these women, a male with a high sex drive and a commanding, ruthlessly demanding presence is the stuff of an ideal sexual partner. Sometimes they are submissive souls who are calmed and/or aroused by the idea of someone else taking command; sometimes they are adrenaline junkies who like the rush of being pushed into dark, dangerous territories; some are probably just sick of politically correct politeness and like a man who will push an issue. How much they'd really like it in real life is an open question - many of these women are either very young (a few I've heard from have been underage), or otherwise unable to get relationships with males going. A few married a nice man and regret it. But for all of them, the man that says "I want you and I'll break rules to have you" is achingly hot. At least in principle. Some of the sweetest women I've ever known fall into this category; and you'd never suspect what their fantasies are like if you don't manage to get them talking.

Quite a few people are ashamed of liking what they like. "I want to be raped by a stranger" is not something anyone is ever going to casually admit to, nor would it ever be safe to admit to it to a stranger. But the last numbers I saw indicated that on average, women managed one non-consent fantasy that got them off per month. Be careful with averages - that might mean some women have eleven a month and some have one a year, and there's probably quite a few who never have any. But it's absolutely out there.

Go ahead and write them here. Well written ones rate well and I've yet to get negative comments of any serious sort. (Caveat: even my darker male protagonists tend to have hearts of gold and some fall in love; I'm not writing the hardest of hardcore. But I've seen dark stuff around and the ratings seem ok.)

edit: meant this in response to the previous post, who due to site trickery involving ignore lists, appeared to be the person that started the thread (at least to me, at first glance).

 

[Handley_Page]

Those who think rape is almost acceptable might care to read the letter by the anonymous victim of that Stanford student (the one given a ridiculously short sentence).
I do hope she manages to sue the little ba$tard.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Those who think rape is almost acceptable might care to read the letter by the anonymous victim of that Stanford student (the one given a ridiculously short sentence).
I do hope she manages to sue the little ba$tard.

Agree. That is such a powerful victim statement, very powerful indeed.

 

[Nezhul]

I'll just reiterate once more that it's important to distinguish between fantasies and reality.

Fantasies are great. But if someone fantasizes about rape, it doesn't mean they actually want to EVER be raped for real.

Similarly, I may fantasize a lot of things, but when I think of them seriously, I can understand that I would never ever would want to take part in them. Or see someone taking part in them.
Still, they are great as fantasies and I enjoy reading and writing non-con as a result, while I'll be the first to try to prevent things that I write about happening to a real person.

Currently I'm writing a non-con story with lots of hot scenes. But I'm thinking about putting it into "Horror" genre and also I will make a lengthy disclaimer, because the things that the heroine has to go through are frightening.
They are still erotic, but only as a fantasy.

 

[Handley_Page]

It seems silly to have to put a disclaimer on a discussion about fiction, but that's how things are it seems. So here goes, I don't think rl rape is ok and I think that rapists should be punished severely. I'm not a rapist and by the way I'm not a murderer and I don't pass bad checks either.

. Obviously privately owned sites determine what they allow but beyond that I believe in free expression. That doesn't mean one should write something they don't want to but it is fiction/fantasy, not real life.
r5

I understand your confusion, but have you seen the number of 'warning labels' on tools these days ?
We seem to have wandered into a strange world where logic and information are separate:
Sign on a little carton of nuts "Warning; contains nuts", just so the unwise consumer (nut allergy?) has been duly warned.
And all this just so Mr Smart Lawyer's ignorant client cannot say "But you never told me".

It maybe daft, but as long as we're on the "blame=claim" culture, we do not have much choice.

 

[the_stoic]

Lit's rule is fairly specific on non-con/rape ending in the victim enjoying it, which maps just fine to the idea of rape victims coming to prefer feeling powerless during sex (whether simulated via the use of a safeword, or not).

I've come across a couple of posts that say, for example, NonCon "doesn't include outright rape," which leads me to believe there's an implicit effort to contextualize the story on both an emotional ("enjoy the process") and juridical (differentiating between real/fantasy) level. In other words, "How real is it" and "how real/fetishized are the reactions/consequences." I dunno. It's vague for a reason.

I've thought about writing a NonCon story that involved a group of college students (female) who deliberately and methodically assaulted other students (also female), without remorse . . . along the way including characters who show regret, anxiety, and guilt -- as well as curiosity and even a tender fig of reluctant romance. But I often figure I'm better off not submitting this kind of story because it's narrative is so heavily predicated on the many characters' routinized/normalized remorselessness and their subsequent disengagement of the legal repercussions of getting caught.

That said, even if character arcs turned toward having remorse, or falling in love, or of including victims whose arcs bend in similar directions, it seems to me the boundaries of publishable NonCon are just defined enough for me to not pen the story at all.

 

[CyranoJ]

Those who think rape is almost acceptable

"...not that I'm being passive-aggressive or anything..."

 

[AnonymousPerv]

Nezhul said it best

About distinguishing fantasy from reality. My ex pushed the boundaries of forced sex role-play more than I did, but she would never, ever have wished to be raped in any real way. She kept mace to in her purse to protect herself, as well. Thankfully, she's never required using it.

It is a tricky subject to write about. Ultimately, fantasy erotica is about exploring fantasies, and I can understand how there may be an audience for just about anything, whether I agree with the subject matter or not.

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

I haven't read all the replies, I have a headache and am trying to ignore it away by posting, but reading and trying to comprehend what I'm reading wasn't helping the throb in my temples.

Anyway, I've written one non con scene. It was a rape story, not erotic at all and the girl is young so for several reasons it won't be posted here.
I cried writing it. It was really one of the hardest scenes I've ever written. I also cried at the end of the story when other really difficult things happened. I got so attached to the girl and her rapist too.
It is one of the hardest stories I've written. And I've never looked at writing a story like it again. It really took an emotional toll on me.

 

[hylas_]

Those who think rape is almost acceptable (...)

Like, who?
Or are you just throwing it out there, unrelated to anything that's been posted in this thread?

 

[Handley_Page]

Like, who?
Or are you just throwing it out there, unrelated to anything that's been posted in this thread?

I don't think so. Please read the rest of the post and then read that letter. It was posted on facebook, I think.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't think so. Please read the rest of the post and then read that letter. It was posted on facebook, I think.

It's here, in full - the victim testimony from the Brock Turner Stanford rape case. Foul scum, the prick should still be doing time.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbak...ad-to-her-ra?utm_term=.esVRyymA5o#.oc5VNNPQDj

 

[hylas_]

@Handley Page
I've read about the story when it was on the news. Now I've read the letter. It's heartbreaking beyond what I can express with words here. I'm taking an antagonistic stance against what you've posted in this thread because I disagree with you, but don't think for a second that my heart doesn't go out to rape survivors, or that I'm not fuming with rage regarding the fucked up way rape is treated by authorities in too many places around the world.

Still don't see how that news story relates to the subject of the thread, exactly. Yeah, it's both about rape, I guess. I personally find it of poor taste to bring up horrific real-life events in a discussion about sexual fantasies and pornographic writing. Just as I wouldn't bring up the horrors of real-life slavery in a BDSM discussion about "Masters" and "slaves". It's disrespectful to the survivors to have their experiences brought up in discussions about wank fodder, and it's disrespectful to folks who enjoy those fantasies to imply that they are complicit in such crimes by merely writing about it or roleplaying it with consenting adults.

Anyway, my point was, I don't know who you're addressing, since your post is for "those who think rape is almost acceptable"; and as far as I can see, nobody in this thread has expressed any such thing. Hence my question, are you just throwing it out there, or addressing specific users here?

 

[CyranoJ]

hylas puts explicitly what I was a bit more gently suggesting. And is quite correct in calling it out.

 

[petes478]

I'm not interested in writing anything Non Con but I like that whole theme of reluctance due to familial and cultural reasons. It's really interesting that despite all the PC bs from the feminazi's, non-con and reluctance is still one of those "most read" female fantasies. I have no idea about all the underlying psychobabble and I don't really care. I think mild bdsm sort of crosses into a lot of female fantasies - and I enjoy writing it as well as reading it.

I Come to your home
Pushing your wife down on the bed on all fours
She says "No, please, don't ... please. No. Sir, I beg you, no....no....no....no" and I finger her hole felling how soaking flooded drenched she is. Her brain and body betray her. She says no, yet her ancient pre- programmed genetic code arouses her body preparing her hole for masculine penetration. Making it hurt the way she craves.
You watch
As I enter her luscious white wet Pussy from behind
Stuffing her
Ramming her
You see her face
You see her facial expressions
As I fuck your wifes breeding hole
I fuck your wife's slutty cunt
I yank her hair in sync with every thrust
In sync with every hard painful thrust
I hit her cervix every thrust
Triggering her body to soak and flood itself
Involuntarily.
But she also conveys to me how aroused she is
Even if she feels simultaneously that its rape
I fuck your wife several times in her pussy
Then In her tight resistant ass
Then I throat Fuck her as you watch

 

[Nezhul]

Exactly.

Again, I don't understand how you can mix fantasy and reality so much? Fiction is called like that for a reason, you know.

real rape is hardly related to the rape fantasy, which is quite common. No one wants real rape to happen to anyone, just like no one wants to participate in real torture of someone - and yet BDSM is ever popular.
No one wants to kill anybody, but everyone likes action movies and shooting games.

No one sane, that is. But you can't really be asking to limit the fantasy of the sane people based on those sick motherfuckers who do rape in real life.
Because if you do, you will find that you need to ban most aspects of human culture and life, starting from religion itself. Because there are always, ALWAYS people who will find ways to pervert everything and make others suffer for it.

petes478
0_o
What the fuck is that supposed to be? Is there a thought behind it even, or just a random flow of consciousness?

 

[petes478]

Exactly.

Again, I don't understand how you can mix fantasy and reality so much? Fiction is called like that for a reason, you know.

real rape is hardly related to the rape fantasy, which is quite common. No one wants real rape to happen to anyone, just like no one wants to participate in real torture of someone - and yet BDSM is ever popular.
No one wants to kill anybody, but everyone likes action movies and shooting games.

No one sane, that is. But you can't really be asking to limit the fantasy of the sane people based on those sick motherfuckers who do rape in real life.
Because if you do, you will find that you need to ban most aspects of human culture and life, starting from religion itself. Because there are always, ALWAYS people who will find ways to pervert everything and make others suffer for it.

petes478
0_o
What the fuck is that supposed to be? Is there a thought behind it even, or just a random flow of consciousness?

It's erotic and related to rape, non-consent.

 

[Nezhul]

It's erotic and related to rape, non-consent.

is it? Erotic, that is.
Okay. To each their own.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It's erotic and related to rape, non-consent.

It's all about the reader. You might find that erotic. I don't. But that was the whole point of the discussion. Reality and fiction can be worlds apart and often are. When it comes to writing non-con that's even more true.