Extreme bruising - a Dom's concern?

[MsQuote]

I realize that everyone has their ideas and limits of what a BDSM relationship should be about. Perhaps this is a rhetorical question, but I just wanted to get some feedback.

I had my first session with a Dom the other day who was into some very aggressive spanking and paddling. It had been some time (about a dozen years) since I last had a Dom and I have a pretty high tolerance for pain, but I made it a point to tell him that I was not a pain slut. I used safe words twice -- red and orange -- and told him that I could not have any visible marks because I have my class reunion and a picnic this weekend.

Two days later, I was still in quite a bit of pain, especially when I sat down. I got a look at my ass and was shocked to see how bruised it was ... some really deep and blotchy black and blue marks all over the bottom of my ass. This had gone far behind any red marks and slight bruising I had ever encountered in the past with other Doms. Having worked as a non-medical professional in a hospital at one time, I had seen photos taken in the ER by the hospital photographer of severely abused women and patients who were in severe accidents. My ass looked just as bad, if not worse, than the bruising I remember in those photos.

I texted him and wrote, "Please tell me you're not into severe bruising."

His reply was, "Some bruising should be expected. You should think of it as a badge of honor."

Is this lifestyle not for me or is he an asshole?

 

[caged_doll]

Being a Michigan girl myself and seeing so many jackwagons there who consistently push past limits (I'm sure it's a nationwide thing too) I think that your limits were disregarded and that he's an asshole. The fact that you have not played in a dozen or so years and that you had to call yellow and red and the fact that despite your concerns about no visible marks he has the gall to tell you that the bruising is a mark of honor, I think he is a douchebag.

Please tell me his name wasn't Steven.

I think you know he is an asshole. Does his behavior want to make you see him again? Do you feel that your concerns (no less legitimate because you are of the submissive/bottom persuasion) were taken into account when he was playing with you? I haven't played for awhile and if I ever decide to do it again I would want someone to recognize I had taken a hiatus and take me slow and listen to my concerns, especially about bruising because most of us have lives that can really be affected by that sort of thing.

This lifestyle can be for you with a good Dom, and Michigan is full of a great many wonderful Doms, you don't need to waste your time with someone who isn't concerned about you at all, and he sounds like he isn't.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Beck31]

In my opinion he is a fucking asshole and not right for you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

He's certainly right for someone-- even lots of someones-- but not right for you.

But he might not have seen the bruises himself. Sometimes they take a while to form, and can be brought to the surface only via heat...

I bet you took a long hot shower afterwards, amiright? I do-- because I know it will bring bruises to the surface, and I like to see them!

And, umm... take a look at this thread, I wonder if it will be helpful to you in your future negotiations? (with other people, of course)
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=40603931#post40603931

 

[MsQuote]

Thanks for the feedback. Of course I felt the guy was an asshole, especially after the way I brought up this concern and his lack of regard. In my experience, the first several times really merit some discussion afterward to make sure things are going on the right track for both parties.

Of course, I don't want to see or hear from him again. I just needed to vent and talk to someone about this. No one in my life knows about my submissive side ... or would understand.

 

[BiBunny]

I'ma be real with you. I don't think he's an asshole. Here's why.

When you play regularly, your body builds up a tolerance to it. I don't know the exact biological/chemical reasons for this, but I know it happens. Things that used to bruise you won't even leave red marks. You can try and try and try, and you won't get much in the way of markings.

However, when you stop playing regularly, that tolerance goes away. So when you start up again, you'll mark like nobody's business. Also, as Stella mentioned, there are other factors besides "how hard he hit" coming into play with the level of bruising.

I used to play hard. But I haven't done anything at all in about 2 years now. Breast torture was always my thing. I could have them tied, whipped, clamped, you name it, and I rarely marked. But now, if I so much as pick a blackhead out of a pore on my tits, I bruise like crazy.

If you haven't played in a dozen years, your body has had a LOT of time to change. He had no way of knowing that about you, so him doing what he did does not make him an asshole. He may be an asshole for other reasons, but this is not one of them.

 

[kittyn_]

The bruising, IMO, is not a big deal, overall. A couple reasons why have been mentioned upthread, but here would be the big reason why I'd give the benefit of the doubt on that particular issue. I don't bruise. I have had bruises worth mentioning once in my adult life. It took laying a dirtbike down on the same leg three times in one day. So if my Dom heard 'no visible bruises', he'd avoid visible places on the off chance I might bruise, but that's about it.

If he went from me, who this is not an issue with, to someone who does actually bruise, he'd have no real idea of what exactly would be the cut off point for their body, mark wise. Does that make him a bad person, that he might unintentionally bruise someone the first time or two he played with them? Not in my opinion, anyway. In all fairness, not trying to flip this around, but why would you choose to play for the first time in a dozen+ years right before an occasion where you did not want to risk being marked? In any case, the areas you mentioned as being sore and bruised are covered areas, for the most part. It doesn't seem like he intentionally went against what you said regarding visible marks.

If there are other concerns for you (having to safeword on your fist session with him, him seeming unconcerned about the damage inflicted, etc), then yeah, tell him good bye and look elsewhere. Next time you may want to set more specific boundaries regarding pain, marks, and whatever else, but I honestly don't think the guy is intentionally being an asshole.

 

[desertslave]

I'ma be real with you. I don't think he's an asshole. Here's why.

When you play regularly, your body builds up a tolerance to it. I don't know the exact biological/chemical reasons for this, but I know it happens. Things that used to bruise you won't even leave red marks. You can try and try and try, and you won't get much in the way of markings.

However, when you stop playing regularly, that tolerance goes away. So when you start up again, you'll mark like nobody's business. Also, as Stella mentioned, there are other factors besides "how hard he hit" coming into play with the level of bruising.

I used to play hard. But I haven't done anything at all in about 2 years now. Breast torture was always my thing. I could have them tied, whipped, clamped, you name it, and I rarely marked. But now, if I so much as pick a blackhead out of a pore on my tits, I bruise like crazy.

If you haven't played in a dozen years, your body has had a LOT of time to change. He had no way of knowing that about you, so him doing what he did does not make him an asshole. He may be an asshole for other reasons, but this is not one of them.

Yup, I emphatically agree. I could go into anatomy and physiology, but building up a tolerance sums it up very nicely. I doubt that the bruises were apparent while you were playing, so I wouldn't blame the dom for doing anything deliberate.

 

[MsQuote]

I guess the thing that concerns me the most is his lack of concern. If it was important enough for me to bring it up in the way that I did, he should have responded differently as in the way he treated me (respectfully) before we ever decided to scene together. I guess I'm looking back on my own experience in which I Dommed a really great guy, but didn't have the confidence or the mindset to do so. I felt very protective of him when he was at his most vulnerable. Maybe a little too protective, which is how I knew I couldn't switch roles no matter how much I like and care for someone/a sub personally.

I feel more stupid than anything. I thought I vetted this Dom rather thoroughly and carefully.

 

[njlauren]

I think what others has written is true, if you haven't played in a long time your body is going to be more susceptible to bruising and it can happen even with relatively light play IME.

That said, I do have some room for concern here with the Dom based on what you wrote. If you told him no marks and you told him your hadn't played for 12 years, then aggressive paddling and spanking could be over the top. If someone told me they hadn't played in 12 years and didn't want marks and I was topping them, I would hold off on the level of spanking or whatever (maybe he did, I can't tell that from the description entirely), I would be extra careful what I did, to keep it as surface as possible. IME There are ways to give pretty good sensation without any deep bruising, even for someone who hasn't played in a while or is a newbie....could be simply the guy doesn't know these or maybe he has played with experienced subs only, that alone doesn't make him a jerk or whatever. One potential red flag was if the OP safeworded, that usually indicates the level of play has gotten pretty strong, a level that would seem to violate the no mark clause even if she hadn't done this in a long time....

What concerns me more,though, was the attitude when she talked to him, when she told him she was upset she had bruises like that and he said "treat them like a badge of honor", that doesn't sound like a very ethical dominant to me. That almost sounds like he blew off her concerns about marks and decided to give her a good beating without even trying to keep it non bruising, and then arrogantly tells her in effect "you should be proud you got them from me" , basically telling her it is no big deal or worse, potentially implying he did it deliberately and implying she should be grateful he did so (and again, I can't guarantee this is the 'truth', since I only have what the OP wrote as a guide). A more ethical dom IMO would have said "Gee, I am sorry to hear that,I tried to keep it so that you wouldn't be bruised, but it sounds like your body was more sensitive then I thought" or the like,shown some concern or regret even if unintended. Even if it wasn't intentional, people have reason for their limits, and at the very least if one gets violated, intentionally or otherwise, they should show more concern then telling her "Wear it as a badge of honor".

I had something happen like that years ago, I was on a business trip to the left coast and a friend of mine, a pro domme,who I saw in NYC (this was before I went lifestyle with BD/SM), recommended someone for what I wanted to explore (more submission then bottoming, more heavy action to a certain extent). I told the domme specifically that I couldn't have any marks, due to my relationship at the time,my friend told her that as well, but during our session she ended up using what I later found out was a mylar cane, and it left not only marks, but it bled and scabbed. Those marks could have caused significant harm to several people, including myself, in the end it turned out okay, but my friend in NYC was livid, she was almost ready to fly to where I had been and take out the other domme (touched me that she had that kind of concern, she did; she later was one of the people who helped shepherd my spouse and I into getting into this in our relationship, real sweetheart).

 

[MsQuote]

njlauren ... you hit the nail on the head about my concerns. In the past, I was lucky enough to have been with two Doms who took safety and respect for me very seriously. Normally, I can tell when a Dom is a newbie or a wannabe or just likes to hurt or humiliate subs more for kicks than to engage in a power exchange.

 

[catalina_francisco]

He's not an asshole IMHO. You haven't played for a long time...your body will therefore react differently and likely bruise easier. This is in part because you have lost the resistence you built up during the time you engaged more regularly, and also because you are 12 years older now so it is natural for your body to react differently.

Add to that we are all different, and our bodies all react differently. Did he stop when you red safeworded? If so, how is it his fault? The bruising could also be a result of your own chemistry at the moment. If you are lacking particular minerals, you are likely to bruise more easily and more visibly. Also there are many medications which can make bruising very easy...if you are taking any of them, it could explain why you bruised more than you have before.

Personally, I can bruise from a light knock against furniture, and yet get a heavy flogging and come out with nothing. Our bodies are strange things sometimes. And don't forget, when you engage consensually in such activities, you have to be prepared to carry at least 50% of the responsibility for outcomes, not load it all on the other person as if they did not have your consent and co-operation.

Catalina

 

[subwannabe]

He's an asshole. There is no definite definition for BDSM. BDSM is what you want to make of it. BDSM may not include spanking at all if you don't want it to and if you do, it doesn't mean you have to accept bruising, ever. Some guys are just abusers and predators and use the word DOM to further their own abusive agenda. Just because you are a sub you do not have to put up with whatever your DOM wants to dish out. You should search out a DOM who is understanding of your needs and wants and doesn't just think of his own sadistic pleasures. You can still have BDSM and not be abused.

 

[catalina_francisco]

He's an asshole. There is no definite definition for BDSM. BDSM is what you want to make of it. BDSM may not include spanking at all if you don't want it to and if you do, it doesn't mean you have to accept bruising, ever. Some guys are just abusers and predators and use the word DOM to further their own abusive agenda. Just because you are a sub you do not have to put up with whatever your DOM wants to dish out. You should search out a DOM who is understanding of your needs and wants and doesn't just think of his own sadistic pleasures. You can still have BDSM and not be abused.

Really?!! Oh yeah, that's right, the pyl holds all the power and the PYL is just there to give them what they want and how they want, yanno, do as they're told. I keep forgetting that.

Catalina

 

[Stella_Omega]

njlauren ... you hit the nail on the head about my concerns. In the past, I was lucky enough to have been with two Doms who took safety and respect for me very seriously. Normally, I can tell when a Dom is a newbie or a wannabe or just likes to hurt or humiliate subs more for kicks than to engage in a power exchange.

"Hurting and humiliating for kicks" is the original "S" part of BDSM. And "getting one's kicks from being hurt or humiliated" is the "M" part. Although we've layered other meanings in as well, those are still there.

 

[Loverskitten]

He's not an asshole IMHO. You haven't played for a long time...your body will therefore react differently and likely bruise easier. This is in part because you have lost the resistence you built up during the time you engaged more regularly, and also because you are 12 years older now so it is natural for your body to react differently.

Add to that we are all different, and our bodies all react differently. Did he stop when you red safeworded? If so, how is it his fault? The bruising could also be a result of your own chemistry at the moment. If you are lacking particular minerals, you are likely to bruise more easily and more visibly. Also there are many medications which can make bruising very easy...if you are taking any of them, it could explain why you bruised more than you have before.

Personally, I can bruise from a light knock against furniture, and yet get a heavy flogging and come out with nothing. Our bodies are strange things sometimes. And don't forget, when you engage consensually in such activities, you have to be prepared to carry at least 50% of the responsibility for outcomes, not load it all on the other person as if they did not have your consent and co-operation.

Catalina

Did you even read the OP's post?
It was her first session with him and she MADE IT A POINT that she wasn't into extreme pain and didn't want marks. She also had to safe word twice?
Yes, he's an asshole. One should take it slow at first. He should have toned it down enough not to warrant a second safe word for crying out loud!

 

[Loverskitten]

Also what a dickhead text reply. Fuck him.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Did you even read the OP's post?
It was her first session with him and she MADE IT A POINT that she wasn't into extreme pain and didn't want marks. She also had to safe word twice?
Yes, he's an asshole. One should take it slow at first. He should have toned it down enough not to warrant a second safe word for crying out loud!

Yes, I read it and stand by my opinion that if you are going to play, you take 50% reaponsibility at least. No-one forced the OP to participate, and they also had safewords which they used and presumeably (as it was not noted otherwise), were honoured. Bruising is not a blanket thing whereby everyone bruises the same amount and from the same amount of impact....it varies. As this was a first session, the PYL had no guage for how the pyl would or does bruise. I also assume that the pyl agreed to the choice of impact, otherwise once again, it was their responsibility to decline and if necessary, leave, not cry foul after the event. Honestly, what was expected in terms of possible marks given the activity involved paddles?

Sheesh, there have been times F has barely touched me, and I mean barely touched me, and I have bruised and worn them for a week or more, and then at other times he has flogged, cropped, spanked, whipped me and I have walked away without a lasting mark. It is not predictable and therefore is not something you can expect someone to know ahead of time, especially someone new. The OP may now realise that hindsight is a bitch, not necessarily the PLY an asshole.

Catalina

 

[Loverskitten]

So if I am playing with someone for the first time and I MAKE IT A POINT to say I don't like water sports and the person pees on my face, it's still 50% my fault. Bull shit!

 

[catalina_francisco]

So if I am playing with someone for the first time and I MAKE IT A POINT to say I don't like water sports and the person pees on my face, it's still 50% my fault. Bull shit!

Well if you knew they intended to do that, yes, it is still your fault in part, if not wholly. The OP knew what the activity was going to include, had safewords, was not forced...IOW, did not say they did not agree to any spanking or paddling, quite the opposite, they participated. If the concern about bruising was that great, why not elect for something which holds no risk of bruising when playing with someone new? To cry foul after the fact sounds too much like the antics in Shades of Grey, not the behaviour of a pyl with extensive prior experience.


Catalina

 

[lothwen]

I realize that everyone has their ideas and limits of what a BDSM relationship should be about. Perhaps this is a rhetorical question, but I just wanted to get some feedback.

I had my first session with a Dom the other day who was into some very aggressive spanking and paddling. It had been some time (about a dozen years) since I last had a Dom and I have a pretty high tolerance for pain, but I made it a point to tell him that I was not a pain slut. I used safe words twice -- red and orange -- and told him that I could not have any visible marks because I have my class reunion and a picnic this weekend.

Two days later, I was still in quite a bit of pain, especially when I sat down. I got a look at my ass and was shocked to see how bruised it was ... some really deep and blotchy black and blue marks all over the bottom of my ass. This had gone far behind any red marks and slight bruising I had ever encountered in the past with other Doms. Having worked as a non-medical professional in a hospital at one time, I had seen photos taken in the ER by the hospital photographer of severely abused women and patients who were in severe accidents. My ass looked just as bad, if not worse, than the bruising I remember in those photos.

I texted him and wrote, "Please tell me you're not into severe bruising."

His reply was, "Some bruising should be expected. You should think of it as a badge of honor."

Is this lifestyle not for me or is he an asshole?

He's an asshole. Not because of the bruising, which as many people have pointed out may have been accidental, but because of his arrogance when you told him of your concerns.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I actually think his response was fairly standard for a PYL who is into pain play....and yes, that is what these activities are, and obviously was understood by the pyl given they mentioned why they didn't want visible bruising. If not, perhaps they should get to know the person they intend playing with more before placing themselves in their hands...and once again, this comes back to responsibility. If it were me and the PYL began apologising profusely and feeling guilty, you can be guaranteed they would not be hearing from me again. I find myself wondering how anyone at the class reunion and picnic was at risk of seeing the bruises given they are on the butt? Normally you would not have your butt out at a class reunion I wouldn't think.

I actually find it offensive to bring up a comparison to bruising on abused women in the emergency department. Those women have not had the opportunity to agree or disagree to their beating, nor do they have safewords they can use and have honoured. To compare the two is not only demeaning to those women, but also comes off as someone maybe not as experienced as they say, or playing in deeper water than they can handle.

Catalina

 

[Stella_Omega]

I actually think his response was fairly standard for a PYL who is into pain play....and yes, that is what these activities are, and obviously was understood by the pyl given they mentioned why they didn't want visible bruising. If it were me and the PYL began apologising profusely and feeling guilty, you can be guaranteed they would not be hearing from me again. I find myself wondering how anyone at the class reunion and picnic was at risk of seeing the bruises given they are on the butt? Normally you would not have your butt out at a class reunion I wouldn't think.

I actually find it offensive to bring up a comparison to bruising on abused women in the emergency department. Those women have not had the opportunity to agree or disagree to their beating, nor do they have safewords they can use and have honoured. To compare the two is not only demeaning to those women, but also comes off as someone maybe not as experienced as they say, or playing in deeper water than they can handle.

Catalina

Yes, yes, and so many more yesses.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yes, yes, and so many more yesses.

LOL, we agree!!

Catalina

 

[Loverskitten]

Well if you knew they intended to do that, yes, it is still your fault in part, if not wholly. The OP knew what the activity was going to include, had safewords, was not forced...IOW, did not say they did not agree to any spanking or paddling, quite the opposite, they participated. If the concern about bruising was that great, why not elect for something which holds no risk of bruising when playing with someone new? To cry foul after the fact sounds too much like the antics in Shades of Grey, not the behaviour of a pyl with extensive prior experience.


Catalina

You sound like a "she had it coming because she was dressed like a slut" kind of person.

Obviously she didn't know he was going to leave marks and deep bruising.
Bottom line, HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO HER. Probably the most important thing when playing with someone you don't know.

To me, comparing what happens in your established relationship and what happens to people playing for the first time is apples and oranges. Not everyone has the opportunity to be in an established relationship but we still get horny and crave kinks from time to time.