Extreme bruising - a Dom's concern?

[catalina_francisco]

You sound like a "she had it coming because she was dressed like a slut" kind of person.

I fail to see how you make this huge jump, and if you knew my background and reputation professionally and personally, you would know just how ridiculous your assertions here are.

Obviously she didn't know he was going to leave marks and deep bruising.
Bottom line, HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO HER. Probably the most important thing when playing with someone you don't know.

I disagree. Why would she have mentioned marking in the first place if she didn't see it as a real possibility? And as some of us have mentioned, there is no predicatability for bruising as so many factors can effect the outcome....some which may not have even been mentioned by the OP. For all we know, he may have been very light and she just unlucky enough to mark more than would be usual. This could be very possible if she were on particular medications including ibruprofen or blood pressure meds...so many can mean bruising happens without any remembered bumps. I for one have this happen some times these days, and I don't even know where the bruise has come from. Bottom line for me is, you don't want bruising, don't engage in impact play. She could just as easily have waited until after the reunion even, no? Would have made it a no brainer then.

To me, comparing what happens in your established relationship and what happens to people playing for the first time is apples and oranges. Not everyone has the opportunity to be in an established relationship but we still get horny and crave kinks from time to time.

But she was not playing for the first time, just the first time with this person. And yes, as I said before, if you don't want marks, don't engage in impact play. Postpone until it doesn't matter so much, experiment first, discuss limits and expectations first, there are a long list of options which do not include 'agree to impact play with someone you don't know (at least as a play partner) then cry foul afterward'. The OP said she had been in BDSM relationships before, and as she hadn't played for 12 years I would expect she is not an 18 yo novice, so you would expect she would be aware of these basic points which help all of us play and engage safely. My first ever session saw me covered in bruises and welts for 2+ weeks...I wanted it, I have a high pain threshold (which the OP mentions she also has so but her level of high and yours or mine may differ), and I certainly didn't run to someone else and claim I was unfairly treated, nor was I that surprised I thought it unfair.

Honestly, it sounds so much like Shades of Grey I keep wondering if we are being taken for a ride.

Catalina

 

[IrisAlthea]

Probably not a good fit for each other, no but I fail to see anything abusive or even assholeish in his behavior.
It would probably had been a good idea for him to make clear that it was a bad time to play if there was to be no bruising at all, but he might have thought that this would be obvious to the OP too.

 

[Loverskitten]

I disagree. Why would she have mentioned marking in the first place if she didn't see it as a real possibility? And as some of us have mentioned, there is no predicatability for bruising as so many factors can effect the outcome....some which may not have even been mentioned by the OP. For all we know, he may have been very light and she just unlucky enough to mark more than would be usual. This could be very possible if she were on particular medications including ibruprofen or blood pressure meds...so many can mean bruising happens without any remembered bumps. I for one have this happen some times these days, and I don't even know where the bruise has come from. Bottom line for me is, you don't want bruising, don't engage in impact play. She could just as easily have waited until after the reunion even, no? Would have made it a no brainer then.




But she was not playing for the first time, just the first time with this person. And yes, as I said before, if you don't want marks, don't engage in impact play. Postpone until it doesn't matter so much, experiment first, discuss limits and expectations first, there are a long list of options which do not include 'agree to impact play with someone you don't know (at least as a play partner) then cry foul afterward'. The OP said she had been in BDSM relationships before, and as she hadn't played for 12 years I would expect she is not an 18 yo novice, so you would expect she would be aware of these basic points which help all of us play and engage safely. My first ever session saw me covered in bruises and welts for 2+ weeks...I wanted it, I have a high pain threshold (which the OP mentions she also has so but her level of high and yours or mine may differ), and I certainly didn't run to someone else and claim I was unfairly treated, nor was I that surprised I thought it unfair.

Honestly, it sounds so much like Shades of Grey I keep wondering if we are being taken for a ride.

Catalina

I WAS talking about two people playing together for the first time.
She told him she wasn't a pain slut. I'm not either but that doesn't mean I don't ever want to engage in impact play.
That sensitive, burning tingle your ass has as it rubs on your jeans the next day after some play- YES!! Wet kisses feel so good on a hot red ass!

Not being able to sit and being covered in bruises two days later- NO
And yes, I would bring it up.

Again, he didn't listen. Maybe he had an "I'll show her" attitude about it too. I've encountered these types plenty

Also the text reply, how about "I didn't know you bruise so easily, next time I'll go easy"


I haven't read 50 shades and don't care to so I have no idea about your comparisons.


OP- find someone who'll listen. That's my advice.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I WAS talking about two people playing together for the first time.
She told him she wasn't a pain slut. I'm not either but that doesn't mean I don't ever want to engage in impact play.
That sensitive, burning tingle your ass has as it rubs on your jeans the next day after some play- YES!! Wet kisses feel so good on a hot red ass!

Not being able to sit and being covered in bruises two days later- NO
And yes, I would bring it up.

Again, he didn't listen. Maybe he had an "I'll show her" attitude about it too. I've encountered these types plenty

Also the text reply, how about "I didn't know you bruise so easily, next time I'll go easy"


I haven't read 50 shades and don't care to so I have no idea about your comparisons.


OP- find someone who'll listen. That's my advice.

Isn't it a contradiction and a little confusing though to say you have a high pain threshold, but that you are not a pain slut? As I said, what do they consider high? It is very subjective...how can anotehr predict that for soomeone else? I certainly would be wary of playing again with someone who reacted the way the OP did.

As to Shades, I figured as I was commenting on it given what I had heard, I should read it to have a better idea of what it was really like. I was not impressed and this is very much like the tone of the book...."I will let you hurt me....oh you hurt me, you big, nasty, man...I'm running away from you because you are so bad and did what I agreed to". Unfortunately,I am sure we will see more people complaining in a similar fashion in the future as they run out to try and have their SOG fantasies fulfilled and find it is easier (and different) to read than perhaps experience.

Catalina

 

[Loverskitten]

I find myself wondering how anyone at the class reunion and picnic was at risk of seeing the bruises given they are on the butt? Normally you would not have your butt out at a class reunion I wouldn't think.

BTW single people hook up at class reunions


I also just remembered I saw a woman's butt at my 20 year, no bruises. Lol

(there were people dancing on tables/the bar)

 

[Stella_Omega]

So if I am playing with someone for the first time and I MAKE IT A POINT to say I don't like water sports and the person pees on my face, it's still 50% my fault. Bull shit!

No, but if you are playing with someone and you said you DO like watersports and he gets pee on your face?

You sound like a "she had it coming because she was dressed like a slut" kind of person.

Obviously she didn't know he was going to leave marks and deep bruising.
Bottom line, HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO HER. Probably the most important thing when playing with someone you don't know.

To me, comparing what happens in your established relationship and what happens to people playing for the first time is apples and oranges. Not everyone has the opportunity to be in an established relationship but we still get horny and crave kinks from time to time.

HE might not have known he was going to leave deep marks and bruising. Those things don't show up right away.

If she got to "yellow" and was willing to keep going-- I'm thinking she was overestimating her own appetite. Now, if I were playing with her, I might ask her: Are you sure? I've been giving you what I would call force eight hits, what do they feel like to you?" And if she said "Force five" I might call red myself. But that's easy for me to say right now-- I'm sitting here at my desk. And I'm not being driven by a need to prove myself to a new partner-- and what I would need to prove might be different than what he thinks he needs to prove, because MEN are socialised differently than women.

OP, when he said "bruises are a badge of honor" did you respond that these were more than "badge" bruises?

 

[blulilacgrl]

Raising my hand....

How about this, because I see so much arguing going back and forth even I am confused. lol

Can we break this question down into 2?

1. Was he an asshole for leaving the bruise?

2. Was he an asshole for telling her to wear them as a badge of honor, when she called to complain?

For me?

1. not so much as it could have been unintentional. The poster does not state that he saw the extent of the bruising and as Stella pointed out, if she went home and soaked in a hot bath, that could have exacerbated the problem. So I might be willing to be forgiving on this point.

2. Yes! yes, he's an asshole. At the very least he could have said "I am sorry. I honestly didn't mean to"


So I'm sorry, I will go with Asshole just for being so damn cavalier!

 

[secretlysubmissive]

I hope your bottom feels better! :/

 

[Stella_Omega]

I hope your bottom feels better! :/

Aww, in all of this brouhaha, SOMEBODY remembers to offer some sympathy for your butt!

Most remiss of us...

 

[secretlysubmissive]

I was just being nice

The 'brouhaha' can continue!

 

[desertslave]

One question for the OP, if she's still around. When the session ended, what was your overall feeling? Did you come away feeling satisfied? Just trying to figure out if there was a bad feeling right off or if it developed after you saw the bruising.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Well if you knew they intended to do that, yes, it is still your fault in part, if not wholly. The OP knew what the activity was going to include, had safewords, was not forced...IOW, did not say they did not agree to any spanking or paddling, quite the opposite, they participated. If the concern about bruising was that great, why not elect for something which holds no risk of bruising when playing with someone new? To cry foul after the fact sounds too much like the antics in Shades of Grey, not the behaviour of a pyl with extensive prior experience.


Catalina

I disagree with you 100%. Her condition were not respected, that is not her fault; the fault lies with him.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A general question;
Do we see any difference between someone taking responsibility for something, and it being their fault?

 

[Netzach]

I'm gonna weasel on this one and say he may be an asshole and may not be an asshole. It is very hard to control bruising on every person you encounter. As an ex-pro I would basically tell guys that if you cannot have any marks under any circumstances, you cannot do any corporal. It's just not possible to guarantee.

However - the post incident attitude matters here. If you're not getting an apology at all, I'm voting douchebag. A strong person takes some ownership of the shit they do, period.

Maybe my freedom with apology makes me a pussy, but I think it demonstrates that I like to be in control of my results, and reluctant to not be in control of my results.

 

[JMohegan]

I realize that everyone has their ideas and limits of what a BDSM relationship should be about. Perhaps this is a rhetorical question, but I just wanted to get some feedback.

I had my first session with a Dom the other day who was into some very aggressive spanking and paddling. It had been some time (about a dozen years) since I last had a Dom and I have a pretty high tolerance for pain, but I made it a point to tell him that I was not a pain slut. I used safe words twice -- red and orange -- and told him that I could not have any visible marks because I have my class reunion and a picnic this weekend.

Two days later, I was still in quite a bit of pain, especially when I sat down. I got a look at my ass and was shocked to see how bruised it was ... some really deep and blotchy black and blue marks all over the bottom of my ass. This had gone far behind any red marks and slight bruising I had ever encountered in the past with other Doms. Having worked as a non-medical professional in a hospital at one time, I had seen photos taken in the ER by the hospital photographer of severely abused women and patients who were in severe accidents. My ass looked just as bad, if not worse, than the bruising I remember in those photos.

I texted him and wrote, "Please tell me you're not into severe bruising."

His reply was, "Some bruising should be expected. You should think of it as a badge of honor."

Is this lifestyle not for me or is he an asshole?

I agree with Catalina, and don't have anything to add except to make a point re the bold.

What concerns me more,though, was the attitude when she talked to him, when she told him she was upset she had bruises like that and he said "treat them like a badge of honor", that doesn't sound like a very ethical dominant to me.

She didn't talk to him. She texted. No tone, no visual clues, no context.

If you want to tell a guy you are really upset, you need to SAY SO. Flat out, in a manner with the least possible chance of being misconstrued.

And if something is physically wrong, you either need to physically show him or TELL HIM exactly what's wrong.

For all we know, he read that text and assumed it was a flirty tease about a possible future encounter. Sure "badge of honor" makes him sound like a tool, but what if he was goofin' around?

 

[MsQuote]

I actually find it offensive to bring up a comparison to bruising on abused women in the emergency department. Those women have not had the opportunity to agree or disagree to their beating, nor do they have safewords they can use and have honoured. To compare the two is not only demeaning to those women, but also comes off as someone maybe not as experienced as they say, or playing in deeper water than they can handle.

Catalina

I only brought up the ER photos (in which I also referenced accident victims) because they were the only comparisons I could think of of how bad and extensive the bruising was.

Having come into this situation with experience, we had a very extensive conversation about safety, practices and pain beforehand. Of course, playing with a partner for the first time involves some risk, but I feel it's a Dom's responsibility to start off a first session slowly and then assess if more pain should and can be inflicted in future play.

I take offense that you assumed that I was "playing in deeper water than they (I) can handle."

 

[MsQuote]

A general question;
Do we see any difference between someone taking responsibility for something, and it being their fault?

For the purpose of this discussion, I would be most comfortable with taking responsibility.

 

[MsQuote]

OP, when he said "bruises are a badge of honor" did you respond that these were more than "badge" bruises?

Yes. I described them in the best detail I could -- deep black, blue and yellow markings that covered the entire bottom half of both cheeks. I never got a response back.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I only brought up the ER photos (in which I also referenced accident victims) because they were the only comparisons I could think of of how bad and extensive the bruising was.

Having come into this situation with experience, we had a very extensive conversation about safety, practices and pain beforehand. Of course, playing with a partner for the first time involves some risk, but I feel it's a Dom's responsibility to start off a first session slowly and then assess if more pain should and can be inflicted in future play.

I take offense that you assumed that I was "playing in deeper water than they (I) can handle."

You're entitled. I would like the question others asked, answered, especially as it could change how the whole situation is perceived. Did he stop when you safeworded? Did you feel at the time, as in when you were both still in the same place physically, that you were OK? Did you have bruising then, or did it appear later?

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm gonna weasel on this one and say he may be an asshole and may not be an asshole. It is very hard to control bruising on every person you encounter. As an ex-pro I would basically tell guys that if you cannot have any marks under any circumstances, you cannot do any corporal. It's just not possible to guarantee.

Have to agree. If you don't want a mark, find some other way of playing so there is no risk.

Catalina

 

[MsQuote]

You're entitled. I would like the question others asked, answered, especially as it could change how the whole situation is perceived. Did he stop when you safeworded? Did you feel at the time, as in when you were both still in the same place physically, that you were OK? Did you have bruising then, or did it appear later?

Catalina

Aside from your repeated hostility toward me my post, replies and concerns in this thread, I'll answer your questions to focus this discussion properly ...

1. Did he stop when I safeworded? He stopped on a particular activity when I safeworded "red" and slowed down on "yellow."

2. Did I feel safe at the time and did we feel we were both in the same place physically? Yes, although safewording.

3. Did I have bruising at the time? I don't know, but I was pretty red and felt a lot of sting... as to be expected.

Of course, as I would expect a self-proclaimed expert as yourself to know, bruising doesn't happen instantly, but when it did occur and to the extent that it did, I thought it was something he should be aware of for future play, which at the time we had arranged.

Perhaps this isn't something I should't have questioned, but the point I was trying to make was for his callous disregard for my concern, especially when we talked about pain, marks and limits on more than one occasion before our session. I felt that I was in good, safe and caring hands and mind as he went out of his way to assure me of in our discussions (email, phone, text and in person). I'm not saying that getting bruised in the way that I did was his fault, but his response and lack of concern when it was discovered (and followed up with some detailed explanation of the bruising after I got his response to make sure he fully understood what I was talking about) is what's at issue here. He never got back to me. I entered into this with full assurance that my/our physical and emotional needs were compatible and would be respected, and the scope and parameters of what we wanted in a D/s relationship were mutual before going forward. Obviously, he did not follow through.

 

[MsQuote]

One question for the OP, if she's still around. When the session ended, what was your overall feeling? Did you come away feeling satisfied? Just trying to figure out if there was a bad feeling right off or if it developed after you saw the bruising.

The bad feeling developed after I got his response to my concern about the bruising.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

The bad feeling developed after I got his response to my concern about the bruising.

I can't speak to the rest of this thread, but if you had a bad feeling please trust it. Even if he is not a bad guy, it just sounds like it is probably a bad fit.

Best wishes to you.

 

[geekmaster24]

I'ma be real with you. I don't think he's an asshole. Here's why.

When you play regularly, your body builds up a tolerance to it. I don't know the exact biological/chemical reasons for this, but I know it happens. Things that used to bruise you won't even leave red marks. You can try and try and try, and you won't get much in the way of markings.

However, when you stop playing regularly, that tolerance goes away. So when you start up again, you'll mark like nobody's business. Also, as Stella mentioned, there are other factors besides "how hard he hit" coming into play with the level of bruising.

I used to play hard. But I haven't done anything at all in about 2 years now. Breast torture was always my thing. I could have them tied, whipped, clamped, you name it, and I rarely marked. But now, if I so much as pick a blackhead out of a pore on my tits, I bruise like crazy.

If you haven't played in a dozen years, your body has had a LOT of time to change. He had no way of knowing that about you, so him doing what he did does not make him an asshole. He may be an asshole for other reasons, but this is not one of them.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read her side of things.

 

[Netzach]

I agree with Catalina, and don't have anything to add except to make a point re the bold.


She didn't talk to him. She texted. No tone, no visual clues, no context.

If you want to tell a guy you are really upset, you need to SAY SO. Flat out, in a manner with the least possible chance of being misconstrued.

And if something is physically wrong, you either need to physically show him or TELL HIM exactly what's wrong.

For all we know, he read that text and assumed it was a flirty tease about a possible future encounter. Sure "badge of honor" makes him sound like a tool, but what if he was goofin' around?

FTW, this. Nice catch on the pertinent detail that this went down via text.

I don't think of texting as the means for serious communication either, good point. I would think that if someone had a serious issue with something the other night they'd want to have a voice inflected actual discussion about it and that if they were texting me it was quick by the way kind of flirting.

I now can totally officially see myself doing this.

Although I'm sure I'd probably ask what they meant by "I hope you're not into serious bruising" because that would confuse me if I'd been trying not to go there. The whole thing would kind of blindside me as a text.

BUT
I still think that part of your duty if you want power, is to accept responsibility for certain things, including "unfortunate circumstances unforseen."

I have kind of a military feeling about the question. The buck has to stop somewhere, doesn't it and it stops with me the person holding the stick. DEFINITELY bottoms tend to do way too little on their end about being an adult, but I do think that even if some external circumstance isn't entirely my fault, it should be thought about by me, put into my contingencies when I make a decision.

Maybe it's just the price of being female that I think demurring would be no skin of this dude's unbruised ass - you're raised to be quick with an apology for the sake of social cohesion, an apology is more of a reflex than a question of backing down from your position.

It's very hard to know when to stop on a yellow or go on a yellow, which is why I hate using that "traffic light" thing, and prefer a stop word only. I don't think "this is getting challenging" is something that should be stated some confusing way.