Execution in Ohio

[RobDownSouth]

Personally, I think if they can't get the drugs needed for lethal injection any longer (which was the case here, they used experimental combinations for the first time) we should go back to hanging or firing squad.

Quick 'n lethal.

There is no good purpose served in dragging an execution out for 25 minutes.

I'm not a major fan of the death penalty but it does have it's place in an orderly society.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Methinks the law of unintended consequences is at work trying to make execution more humane.

You want convicts to like it, is what you want. If it was possible youd insist they fill out a satisfaction survey, and kick staff ass if the convict wasn't thrilled by his execution. I know how you guvmint negro counters think.

 

[FGB]

We all know it is tough to get good drugs sometimes.

 

[unregistered]

 

[StrangeLife]

That is because it is implied in the concept of Natural Rights that underpin the Constitution.

If you have no right to life then force and strength rule. If you do, then cooperation (division of labor) rules. This leads to the right to pursuit of happiness. Right to property is then implied because it is gained by a trade of a portion of your labor or intellect (life) in the pursuit of happiness.
A_J, the Stupid

Natural Rights is similar to UDHR. You are born with the right to life, but it doesn't prohibit anybody from killing you as soon as you've exhaled your first breath.

You seem to think that the right to life implies that you can't be killed legally, but this is not the case. The reason for this is, that other Articles dealing with basic human rights are specifically formulated to prevent them from being stripped later on. For instance you are not only born free, but it is explicitly stated that you can never be forced into slavery.

Analogous you would expect the right to life Article to explicitly state that you couldn't be executed, if that was the intention.

Personally, I think if they can't get the drugs needed for lethal injection any longer (which was the case here, they used experimental combinations for the first time) we should go back to hanging or firing squad.

Firing squad is still an option in some states...

 

[Sean]

Personally, I think if they can't get the drugs needed for lethal injection any longer (which was the case here, they used experimental combinations for the first time) we should go back to hanging or firing squad.

Quick 'n lethal.

There is no good purpose served in dragging an execution out for 25 minutes.

I'm not a major fan of the death penalty but it does have it's place in an orderly society.

No it doesn't.

 

[StrangeLife]

No it doesn't.

Can you really answer that so categorically?

We can agree that the death penalty is used way too frivolously today, but aren't there people who are way too dangerous to ever let back out and who are impossible to re-socialize? People who have committed crimes so horrendously that they should be forced to share the fate of their victims?

 

[Sean]

Can you really answer that so categorically?

Yes.

We can agree that the death penalty is used way too frivolously today, but aren't there people who are way too dangerous to ever let back out and who are impossible to re-socialize?

Yes.

People who have committed crimes so horrendously that they should be forced to share the fate of their victims?

No.

 

[StrangeLife]

Yes.

Yes.

No.

Oh? Then what about the families who have lost their loved ones in a horrible way? Shouldn't they have the satisfaction of knowing that the killer will have his life cut short too?

What about the principle of fairness and justice for the victim?

 

[Sean]

Oh? Then what about the families who have lost their loved ones in a horrible way? Shouldn't they have the satisfaction of knowing that the killer will have his life cut short too?

What about the principle of fairness and justice for the victim?

That will bring their loved ones back, will it?

If the court system was 100% infallible you might, just might, have an argument for the death penalty. But it isn't. So you don't.

 

[Sean Renaud]

There are way too many appeals. Evidence of innocence should always be heard, but an appeal on the ground that the DA farted or something equally frivolous should be rejected.

The method in use when the Constitution was written was public hanging. Maybe we should go back to that.

And yet we still get it wrong a frightening amount of the time. Of course part of the problem is that your choice of words, accidental or not, is the core of what's wrong. It's not about proving innocents. You are innocent until proven guilty and if the new evidence or in many cases the combination of the fact that eye witnesses are notoriuosly terrible and people are often emotional at these things leads to someone must pay for this and you're in front of us.

Can you really answer that so categorically?

We can agree that the death penalty is used way too frivolously today, but aren't there people who are way too dangerous to ever let back out and who are impossible to re-socialize? People who have committed crimes so horrendously that they should be forced to share the fate of their victims?

Those people are so few and far between as to not be worthy of discussion and even they can safely be put under the jail. I'm not anti-death penalty. I'm actually anti-life w/o parole. I think most people can be rehabilitated and those who can't should be put out of our collective misery but really like much of our justice system it's really rough if you aren't white and in this case preferably female.

 

[StrangeLife]

That will bring their loved ones back, will it?

Executing them will...

- Bring closure to the families.
- Give the families a sense that the victims have been avenged.
- Provide a 100% guarantee that the killer will never kill again.
- Eradicate a person who can't be allowed to exist in our society anyway.

If the court system was 100% infallible you might, just might, have an argument for the death penalty. But it isn't. So you don't.

So it's not the death penalty but the court system that's the problem? Good - because it keeps getting better at a rapid pace due to the evolution of forensic technology. More and more killers are nailed by technical evidence these days. Soon we'll be able to zap killers, backed by absolute certainty.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Why aren't executions carried out with a lethal injection of heroin?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Executing them will...

- Bring closure to the families.
- Give the families a sense that the victims have been avenged.
- Provide a 100% guarantee that the killer will never kill again.
- Eradicate a person who can't be allowed to exist in our society anyway.

-If they didn't get closure from the guilty verdict that's on them.
-This is supposed to be about Justice, not Vengeance. If they can't get behind that fuck them.
-Fair enough, though in most cases a 70% chance or so is more than acceptable.
-Another quality point.

So it's not the death penalty but the court system that's the problem? Good - because it keeps getting better at a rapid pace due to the evolution of forensic technology. More and more killers are nailed by technical evidence these days. Soon we'll be able to zap killers, backed by absolute certainty.

I haven't seen any real evidence that the court system is getting better. More and more killers being nailed doesn't actually mean more guilty parties captured, it just means more guilty verdicts given. Seeing how many people are later found not-guilty I'm less than sold that this is a positive development.

 

[warrior queen]

I am a firm believer in the death panalty, even though we don't have it here.
Especially for those that confess or are found absolutely to be guilty (and nowadays the forensic testing is making it easier to conclusively establish guilt).
Why should someone who cold-bloodedly takes a life be allowed a reduction in sentence? The person/people they killed are still dead...

 

[Sean]

Executing them will...

- Bring closure to the families.
- Give the families a sense that the victims have been avenged.
- Provide a 100% guarantee that the killer will never kill again.
- Eradicate a person who can't be allowed to exist in our society anyway.





So it's not the death penalty but the court system that's the problem? Good - because it keeps getting better at a rapid pace due to the evolution of forensic technology. More and more killers are nailed by technical evidence these days. Soon we'll be able to zap killers, backed by absolute certainty.

If someone else dying brings you closure for the death of a loved one, then you have bigger problems than grief.

And no, it isn't just the courts, I have a myriad of moral objections to the death penalty but I can't be arsed rehashing an argument that I've done dozens of times.

 

[UhlBWett]

Let's see

He raped and stabbed a young mother and her unborn child. I want him to feel what she felt!

You pussies need to grow a pair.......................

The worst part about it is that it took 25 fricken years to get it done!

 

[Weird Harold]

...it is more cost effective to keep them in the pen for 50 years than to off them, what with all the appeals to this, that, and the other court.

A Death Sentence probably is more expensive, but only because anti-death penalty advocates run the cost up with endless appeals -- even when the convict requests the appeals to stop (a la Gary Gilmore)

Without the efforts of anti-death penalty activists, execution would be cheaper than Life W/O Parole, or at worst, no more expensive. Using the "more expensive" argument is flawed when executions are more expensive because of a "if it isn't more expensive we'll mount another challenge until it is," tactic.

The judicial system (world-wide) needs a lot of reform to eliminate wrongful convictions at all levels, but that doesn't remove the need for the death penalty -- society needs the "Ultimate Sanction" for those not deterred by imprisonment.

 

[Sean]

A Death Sentence probably is more expensive, but only because anti-death penalty advocates run the cost up with endless appeals -- even when the convict requests the appeals to stop (a la Gary Gilmore)

Without the efforts of anti-death penalty activists, execution would be cheaper than Life W/O Parole, or at worst, no more expensive. Using the "more expensive" argument is flawed when executions are more expensive because of a "if it isn't more expensive we'll mount another challenge until it is," tactic.

The judicial system (world-wide) needs a lot of reform to eliminate wrongful convictions at all levels, but that doesn't remove the need for the death penalty -- society needs the "Ultimate Sanction" for those not deterred by imprisonment.

Yep, let's reduce human life to dollars and cents.

 

[warrior queen]

Yep, let's reduce human life to dollars and cents.

No. Let's reduce it to exactly what it is.... a life for a life.
The current system has done nothing al all to stem murder rates.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lawyers cant make any money off stiffs. A life sentence pays forever. And if some killer saves the life of the Presidents daughter we can always spare his ass or give him a toaster or whatever.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Yep, let's reduce human life to dollars and cents.

That's Bert Notarypublic's rationale for whining about Obamacare.

 

[Sean]

No. Let's reduce it to exactly what it is.... a life for a life.
The current system has done nothing al all to stem murder rates.

All the countries with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those that don't.

 

[dolf]

I don't have much empathy with the criminal.

what bothers me is that we allow our emotions about his actions to reduce us to his level of barbarism, gaining gleeful satisfaction from inflicting pain and death upon those we deem less human than we are. how are we better than the baying mob who commits genocide, other than in our definition of who deserves torture and who does not? taking glee in suffering and death is ugly and, in order to stand in judgement of those who break these laws, we should strive to be better than that.

 

[warrior queen]

All the countries with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those that don't.

All the countries that have the death penalty have much higher population numbers than those that don't.