Sean
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Carlos de Luna
Execution in Ohio
- Thread starter Boxlicker101
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Carlos de Luna
Sean
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JohnnySavage
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Cameron Todd Willingham was executed February, 2004, for murdering his three young children by arson at the family home in Corsicana, Texas. Nationally known fire investigator Gerald Hurst reviewed the case documents, including the trial transcriptions and an hour-long videotape of the aftermath of the fire scene and said in December 2004 that "There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire. It was just a fire."[12] In 2010, the Innocence Project filed a lawsuit against the State of Texas, seeking a judgment of "official oppression".[13]
Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. In the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed.[14]
Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed February, 1992, for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March, 2004, cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months prior.[15] Immediately following the nun's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.[16] In both cases, black curly head hairs were found on the victims, linked to Rueda. Previously unidentified fingerprints in the nun's room were matched to Rueda. The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary entitled The Last Word.
Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair May, 1990, in the state of Florida for the murders of two Florida Highway Patrol officers. The conviction of a co-defendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.[17]
Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989. Subsequent investigations cast strong doubt upon DeLuna's guilt for the murder of which he had been convicted.[18][19]
Thomas and Meeks Griffin were executed in 1915 for the murder of a man involved in an interracial affair two years previously but were pardoned 94 years after execution. It is thought that they were arrested and charged because they were viewed as wealthy enough to hire competent legal counsel and get an acquittal.[20]
Chipita Rodriguez was hanged in San Patricio County, Texas in 1863 for murdering a horse trader, and 122 years later, the Texas Legislature passed a resolution exonerating her.
Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. In the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed.[14]
Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed February, 1992, for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March, 2004, cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months prior.[15] Immediately following the nun's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.[16] In both cases, black curly head hairs were found on the victims, linked to Rueda. Previously unidentified fingerprints in the nun's room were matched to Rueda. The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary entitled The Last Word.
Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair May, 1990, in the state of Florida for the murders of two Florida Highway Patrol officers. The conviction of a co-defendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.[17]
Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989. Subsequent investigations cast strong doubt upon DeLuna's guilt for the murder of which he had been convicted.[18][19]
Thomas and Meeks Griffin were executed in 1915 for the murder of a man involved in an interracial affair two years previously but were pardoned 94 years after execution. It is thought that they were arrested and charged because they were viewed as wealthy enough to hire competent legal counsel and get an acquittal.[20]
Chipita Rodriguez was hanged in San Patricio County, Texas in 1863 for murdering a horse trader, and 122 years later, the Texas Legislature passed a resolution exonerating her.
JohnnySavage
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Sean Renaud
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Fair enough, though I'm dismissing anything from prior to 1950 completely out of hand as ancient history that we don't get to be pissy about today.
Sean
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140 people have been released from death row since 1973 because it turns out they were innocent.
Sean Renaud
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And none of those people would count because my statement if you go back and check it brother Sean is that I was unaware of innocent people who had been executed. I went to so far as to frame it with I assume that once the execution happens people stop trying to prove the person's innocense because they have to keep working for people who are still alive.
Sean
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cjh
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DNA proved he did it, I think.
Great book, though.
And the opinion that bears his name shows that justice is not always just.
pointless
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the ninth commandment.
cjh
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It's important to find the innocent dead man. Too many sceptics think that just because some people have been exonerated, everybody has been exonerated.
Sean Renaud
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Until we've done away with the death sentence (which I don't particularly support) I have to disagree. I want people working on making sure that the people we send to die are guilty and if we fucked up and they are dead we fucked up but there are better places to use energy right now.
cjh
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Gotta win the hearts as well as the minds.
The dead, innocent man translates into lots of hearts.
The death penalty bar is a pretty sophisticated group of legal rebels. They do a lot with limited resources. Part of what they do is look for story. Part of the overall story is falability of the system.
StrangeLife
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Sean said:
Because a disproportionate numbers of killers are black - simple as that.
Of course you can make a case of social and economical inequality here, but that doesn't change the fact that the demographic currently most likely to kill somebody is young black males.
Neither do I.
Somehow we have gotten into our minds that vengeance is "wrong" and "unbecoming of a civilized society." But it isn't. Getting back at somebody who hurt you is a catharsis and will help heal your wounds and move on. It matters to the families of the victims that society cares enough for their loss to make the killer pay. It's important to them and we owe them that.
Sean said:
Great - I'm happy for them.
And it demonstrates perfectly how the system is improving. It's getting increasingly harder to get away with murder these days and proving your innocence if wrongfully suspected is getting easier. The day when we can get rid of the term "beyond reasonable doubt" isn't far away.
The number of wrongful convictions is shrinking rapidly and thus the finality of the death penalty is becoming lesser of an issue.
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cjh
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Because a disproportionate numbers of killers are black - simple as that.
Of course you can make a case of social and economical inequality here, but that doesn't change the fact that the demographic currently most likely to kill somebody is young black males.
Neither do I.
Somehow we have gotten into our minds that vengeance is "wrong" and "unbecoming of a civilized society." But it isn't. Getting back at somebody who hurt you is a catharsis and will help heal your wounds and move on. It matters to the families of the victims that society cares enough for their loss to make the killer pay. It's important to them and we owe them that.
Great - I'm happy for them.
And it demonstrates perfectly how the system is improving. It's getting increasingly harder to get away with murder these days and proving your innocence if wrongfully suspected is getting easier. The day when we can get rid of the term "beyond reasonable doubt" isn't far away.
The number of wrongful convictions is shrinking rapidly and thus the finality of the death penalty is becoming lesser of an issue.
That's very Kantian of you.
There's no closure during the appeal process required by the constitution. If a case arises in state court, it has to go through state AND federal review. Just a constant scab being picked.
The system is unfair too often because of the discretion afforded key players and because the crimes evoke so much emotion.
Exoneration requires years and sometimes decades.
It's fucked up. It's barbaric. True LWOP serves the same purpose.
StrangeLife
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I agree that we could make some improvement in the appeals process, to make it easier for people with new exhonorating evidence to get through the system and to make the execution process speedier and cheaper in the cases of the guilty.
No it doesn't.
There is a finality to death that you simply can't "simulate" by keeping a murderer alive in a cage. Once you're dead, you're history.
Besides there's no such thing as "true LWOP." As long as they're alive, they can get out. A prison escape... a bleeding heart governor...
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cjh
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There's no real money in that work.
Not in light of the time spent and the sophistication of the practice.
Anybody who does that work well can make a hell of a lot more doing drug work and white collar work.
Sean Renaud
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Yeah it really does. It's really worse by a long bit. Once you're dead your suffering is over, kept a live in a cage. That's something nobody should be able to stomach.
And yes there is true LWOP. Prison escpes are exceedingly rare as are bleeding heart governors. Or even governors with the balls to set innocent men free since they're afraid of being seen as bleeding hearts.
cjh
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StrangeLife
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Well, there you go. Not only is life in prison a poor solution for the victims families, but also unneccessarily cruel to the perpetrators. In other words, it's bad for everybody.
A perfect argument for executing them instead.
Really?
Sean Renaud
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Well, there you go. Not only is life in prison a poor solution for the victims families, but also unneccessarily cruel to the perpetrators. In other words, it's bad for everybody.
A perfect argument for executing them instead.
Really?
Yes really. Twelve murderers with no backstory given whatsoever proves aboslutely nothing.
I didn't say I was against the Death Penalty. I'm against Life Without Parole because it's needlessly cruel. Congrats on learning to read.
StrangeLife
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We might be in agreement... with the added stipulation that I'm less interested in the well-being of the lifers, but more see it as a waste to keep somebody caged up when there's no way we'll ever let his @ss back out anyway. And even the best maximym security prison is far less secure than six feet of dirt.
About the parole system, it should be abolished completely. If we want a prisoner to serve less time, the judge should sentence him to less in the first place.
Sean Renaud
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I'm not particularly interested at all in the well being of the lifers seeing how I don't particularly want them to exist. I'm hesitant to kill unless we are certain and even in cases where we are I'm still hesitant to kill if rehab is possible but if we don't think rehab is possible put em in a box and be done.
I think we kinda abuse the parole system. We use it in cases where we want to put a person away for 'x' but know it's unjustifiable and a jury won't go for it. Besides for most crimes people can can be rehabilitated and if they are ahead of schedule we're the only ones who really suffer for keeping them in longer than that.
