Execution in Ohio

[Sean]

All the countries that have the death penalty have much higher population numbers than those that don't.

Murder rates are per capita. Do try and keep up.

 

[girlsmiley]

It's happening whether we agree with it or not. For whatever reasons.

I think they should put all executions on hold until they've sorted it out.

 

[warrior queen]

Murder rates are per capita. Do try and keep up.

Next you'll try and tell me that the reason that America has 15* times the murder rate of Oz has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that America has 15* times the population.

* Random number to make a point. Not based on any facts.

 

[Sean]

Next you'll try and tell me that the reason that America has 15* times the murder rate of Oz has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that America has 15* times the population.

* Random number to make a point. Not based on any facts.

Oh my god, you're a retard.

 

[dolf]

_too mean_

 

[butters]

I don't have much empathy with the criminal.

what bothers me is that we allow our emotions about his actions to reduce us to his level of barbarism, gaining gleeful satisfaction from inflicting pain and death upon those we deem less human than we are. how are we better than the baying mob who commits genocide, other than in our definition of who deserves torture and who does not? taking glee in suffering and death is ugly and, in order to stand in judgement of those who break these laws, we should strive to be better than that.

The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
Fyodor Dostoevsky

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It's happening whether we agree with it or not. For whatever reasons.

I think they should put all executions on hold until they've sorted it out.

Kill them all, let God sort them out.

 

[eyer]

He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.

........................................................................John 8:7 (NASB)

 

[Mr Noone]

...
The judicial system (world-wide) needs a lot of reform to eliminate wrongful convictions at all levels, but that doesn't remove the need for the death penalty -- society needs the "Ultimate Sanction" for those not deterred by imprisonment.

Problem is no one who commited a crime was ever deterred by the penalty. "I won't pull the trigger, because then it might be a capital crime." Really? You think anyone has ever said that?

The death penalty is barbaric. Full stop.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The Nuremberg Hangings — Not So Smooth Either

This is the way to do it right:

A number of the hanged Nazis died, not quickly from a broken neck as intended, but agonizingly from slow strangulation. Ribbentrop and Sauckel each took 14 minutes to choke to death, while Keitel, whose death was the most painful, struggled for 24 minutes at the end of the rope before expiring.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-so-smooth-either/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

 

[Weird Harold]

Problem is no one who commited a crime was ever deterred by the penalty. "I won't pull the trigger, because then it might be a capital crime." Really? You think anyone has ever said that?

The death penalty is barbaric. Full stop.

The Death Penalty is not, nor should it be, a deterrent. (except in the sense that nobody who has been executed ever commits another crime) Neither is it, nor should it be, vengeance or justice for the victims. The Death Penalty is only, or should be, the permanent removal of a threat to society.

What would you propose should be done with a convict serving consecutive life-without-parole sentences who commits another capital crime while in prison?

 

[StrangeLife]

Those people are so few and far between as to not be worthy of discussion and even they can safely be put under the jail. I'm not anti-death penalty. I'm actually anti-life w/o parole. I think most people can be rehabilitated and those who can't should be put out of our collective misery but really like much of our justice system it's really rough if you aren't white and in this case preferably female.

As long as they live, they can get out - by escaping, by the hand of a bleeding heart governor or some other way. Once they're fertilizer though we can be 100% sure they're gone.

-If they didn't get closure from the guilty verdict that's on them.
-This is supposed to be about Justice, not Vengeance. If they can't get behind that fuck them....

But vengeance is part of justice Sean. it's called "retribution" today, but it's the same animal. People need to know that those who have wronged them will suffer.

You're not the only one making this mistake. For some reason many people seem to live under the illusion that prison is all about "fixing criminals." Certainly reformation (re-socialization) plays an important part, but we also punish for deterrence, retribution, prevention and atonement.

If someone else dying brings you closure for the death of a loved one, then you have bigger problems than grief.

And no, it isn't just the courts, I have a myriad of moral objections to the death penalty but I can't be arsed rehashing an argument that I've done dozens of times.

C'mon. If you're trying to tell me that the execution of somebody who brutally murdered one of your loved ones wouldn't make you feel warm and fuzzy all over, I don't believe you.

And your moral scruples? Remember that you need to do more than "simply murder somebody" in order to get the death penalty. There has to be aggravating circumstances, like multiple victims or killing in a particular cruel and inhuman way or something like that. The perps facing capital punishment aren't exactly nice people.

All the countries with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those that don't.

True. But beware that you don't confuse correlation with causality. So you believe that the crime rate in the US would go down, if we didn't have the death penalty?

Well, we can actually verify that claim because of "Furman vs. Georgia / 1972" - a verdict that created a 6 year de facto moratorium on executions in the US (it saved Charles Manson from the gas chamber - whoop-dee-doo ). And guess what? The murder rate increased. Not enough to be statistically significant, but it didn't go down either.

Yes, maybe the death penalty doesn't make a difference as far as deterrence goes. Does that make a good case for removing it?

Not necessarily, because it is still a great instrument of retribution (or revenge, if you will) and it's the ultimate as far as prevention goes (the number of re-offenders is zero).

The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.

What did you expect? The dude spent years doing hard labor in a Sibirian prison camp! Of course he would write shit like that. Please allow me to update this quote to reflect the real world...

The degree of gullibility of a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
Strange Life

So there!

He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.

The definition of "sin" is way too broad for this context. It can mean everything from murder to "coveting your neighbors cow," right? So we have to be more specific. Like:

"He among you who has never committed murder, let him be the first to throw a stone."

Which fits perfectly, since you cannot get a job in a correctional facility if you're an ex con. The people who throw the switch of the execution chamber are thus "without sin"...

Problem is no one who commited a crime was ever deterred by the penalty. "I won't pull the trigger, because then it might be a capital crime." Really? You think anyone has ever said that?

So what if it doesn't work so well as a deterrent. It's still a darned good way of preventing re-offences, so at least it gets them permanently off the streets after the first one.

The death penalty is barbaric. Full stop.

Barbaric? We're not exactly torturing them to death y'know. In fact, the penal system goes to great length to make it as quick and painless as possible.

 

[RjThoughts]

Okay, the man made loud snoring sounds. To me, and everyone else who's had a dad that's fallen asleep on a lazy Sunday afternoon in the easy chair, that means he was "dead to the world" and was feeling NO pain.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Problem is no one who commited a crime was ever deterred by the penalty. "I won't pull the trigger, because then it might be a capital crime." Really? You think anyone has ever said that?

How can you possibly know that? Logic dictates the opposite - people commit crimes but do little or no physical harm to their victims because doing so would be more serious and result in heavier prison sentences if they get caught.

I realize most criminals don't expect to get caught, but they also know there is a chance it might happen.

 

[warrior queen]

Problem is no one who commited a crime was ever deterred by the penalty. "I won't pull the trigger, because then it might be a capital crime." Really? You think anyone has ever said that?

The death penalty is barbaric. Full stop.

So - the death penaly is more barbaric than say....... stabbing someone multiple times and then raping them while they're bleeding to death?
Because then you and I have VERY different definitions for 'barbaric'.

And I'm fairly sure that if the death penalty were ALWAYS used in cases of murder, it's deterrence value would increase.
Right now, murderers know there's a better-than-even chance they'll live to old age..... because lawyers and bleeding hearts and the judicial system itself all work to make the death penalty almost impossible.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

deterrence

Problem is no one who commited a crime was ever deterred by the penalty. "I won't pull the trigger, because then it might be a capital crime." Really? You think anyone has ever said that?

At a societal level, it does seem that criminals are deterred by the punishment. As law enforcement grew more effective, murder rates fell. It does appears as if civilization was built not on the good intentions of men but by the coercive arm of the law.

 

[eyer]

The definition of "sin" is way too broad for this context. It can mean everything from murder to "coveting your neighbors cow," right? So we have to be more specific. Like:

"He among you who has never committed murder, let him be the first to throw a stone."

Which fits perfectly, since you cannot get a job in a correctional facility if you're an ex con. The people who throw the switch of the execution chamber are thus "without sin"...

Do you not understand the Nazarene's contextual point...

...or, do you simply reject it?

 

[Sunshine]

I am not in favor of the death penalty. Certainly not in favor of anyone suffering. Even a killer.

 

[StrangeLife]

Do you not understand the Nazarene's contextual point...

...or, do you simply reject it?

I understand it alright. But do you?

If so, you must recognize that it is a flawed notion because it doesn't take into account that there are degrees of sin. According to the Bible a kid stealing a piece of candy is effectively equal to a rapist and murderer. They're both sinners, period. Surely you can see the absurdity in that?

Now, if we accept the implied notion that the person metering out punishment must be better (less sinful) than the perp, we will need to compare then sins of the prison officials with the sins of the perps on death row. And who do you think comes off on top in that contest?

 

[eyer]

I understand it alright. But do you?

If so, you must recognize that it is a flawed notion because it doesn't take into account that there are degrees of sin. According to the Bible a kid stealing a piece of candy is effectively equal to a rapist and murderer. They're both sinners, period. Surely you can see the absurdity in that?

Actually, the simple lesson is that we are all sinners, that none of us are righteous, not even one...

...how do you feel about your own sentence of death?

 

[Sunshine]

Actually, the simple lesson is that we are all sinners, that none of us are righteous, not even one...

...how do you feel about your own sentence of death?

Eyer, you're not righteous? Hmmmm.

 

[eyer]

Eyer, you're not righteous? Hmmmm.

Vamoose...

...harlot.

 

[Sunshine]

Vamoose...

...harlot.

It's "starlet".

See yah around

 

[GiggLeGasm]

I've participated in full codes where we beat on a persons chest, injected medications that shock the body, create an acid build-up that we know is painful. We do this until we're absolutely certain that the person is dead. It has taken as long as two hours. It has never been shorter than an hour.

We could argue that 25 minutes is less torture than we give to anyone else.

 

[StrangeLife]

Actually, the simple lesson is that we are all sinners, that none of us are righteous, not even one...

...how do you feel about your own sentence of death?

There you go again with the digital justice. Zero or one. Righteous or not. You're either Jesus or Ted Bunddy - there's nothing in between. Can't you tell how utterly absurd that sounds?

But ok you got me! I'm a sinner! I have stolen - a long time ago, but still. I have committed adultery. I have lied. I have certainly coveted stuff that wasn't mine. I have worked on a sunday. I have celebrated non-christian holidays. I have fornicated without being married. I have supported a girl in getting an abortion. I have written and helped promote erotic stories. I have Tweeted in church... and that's just for starters.

And to be honest I'm complete and utterly non-repentant and would probably do it all over again if given the chance.

But how does that preclude me from putting a worthless torture-rapist like Dennis Rader to death?

Are you saying that because I fucked the wife of our local minister twenty years ago consensually I am no better than a man who raped and tortured ten women to death?